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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

360 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (6 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by PinMonk (5 years ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (4 years ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (4 years ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (4 years ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (4 years ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (4 years ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (4 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#6251 4 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from pinlink:

THE FLIPPER POWER WAS PURPOSELY DIALED DOWN!! Everyone is complaining about flipper strength and not able to hit the ramp as much as you'd like. Again, THE FLIPPER STRENGTH WAS TURNED DOWN!!

If you are specifically gathering location gameplay data, why would you deliberately run your flippers weaker than the game design calls for? To protect badly-printed prototype 3D toys? I don't agree with their priorities. Gameplay must be sorted out first and foremost, but that never seems to be important on JPOP games. Hope this doesn't become another MG...

7 months later
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#8765 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

I thought he must be dumb, he does not even know about this company about to take the pinball world to a new level.

The only "next level" thing in their demo game was the amount of flipper power needed to make a ramp shot. What else was innovative?

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#8766 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Yelobird:

Partially true..... In the end the game had a Inflated keep him alive price which was not 4500

This is very misleading. All games quoted and ordered at 4500 were delivered for that price. Gene found parts to build additional games and sold those at the currently going rate closer to 10K. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it gave a few more people a chance to get a game. I recall they all sold pretty quickly.

2 months later
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#10397 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

One (or all) of those streaming dudes finally convinced them to change the right ramp?

I feel sorry for those who are actually want this game. I lost all interest in anything Popadiuk after SW:ep1 and have been amazed he's still around after so many flameouts. At some point you gotta pack it up and just sell insurance.

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#10457 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from A_Bord:

One different decision and this whole thing may have had a radically different outcome: Don't hire JPop

Yup. Even his WMS games aren't that great. Pretty to look at but never the best playing games. The RAZA proto shot very poorly and yet people are still going ga-ga over today's (now postponed) reveal?

I guess given enough time enough monkeys can produce a functional pinball machine.

I'm curious, did anyone who got one of those Magic Girl games get it up, running and fully playable? Or did those even ship?

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#10605 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Not just Stellar Wars.. I experienced the WMS lockbar of pain with Laser Ball.

Problem ain't just with the corners here though. People slam their fists on lockbars in frustration all the time. Bangbacks and deathsaves. Spilled beer. That thing won't last a month on location. SMH...

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#10628 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Aurich:

But the stilts are dumb

They're too thin. With the way players slam games around and shake them, they won't last. Unless those are titanium or thick steel stilts, I could see one of these RAZA heads bending or even snapping off. They have to be hollow for wiring, so how thick are the metal walls?

Put one on location with a loose tilt and see how long the stilts (and lockbar) last. Or is this a home-only game?

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#10632 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from thechakapakuni:

So is this pin connected to the internet

I had my RFM connected to the internet in 1999. Nothing to see here

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#10709 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from yancy:

I'm not sold on 'em. Still haven't evolved ears in place of testicles.

If you're gonna do a crotch speaker, at least do one one big enough to ring the player's bells...

ma (resized).jpgma (resized).jpg
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#10743 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Wanimal:

Makes me have that much more respect for someone like Chuck @ Spooky. I bet deep root has been through more cash than Spooky has

DR probably burned more cash making this prototype than Spooky has made selling all their games combined...

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#10765 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Reflections show the poor workmanship that's gone into that screen thing. It's not close to being even across the horizontal, and the gap between bezel and screen varies as well. I don't think you can even make something like that look good even if it wasn't warped.

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#10772 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Owning a stellar wars for a year was pretty traumatic.

Yeah, Laser Ball was an easier time because it was such a bad game you rarely wanted to play it, hence less pain.

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#11071 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from tamoore:

What they say when it's offered to them: "No. Not like that, more like the way things have always been. That kind of innovation."

I want innovation in gameplay, not more gizmos and overengineered junk. Jurassic Park was very innovative in its ruleset and 4 ramp design while still being a traditional pinball machine.

The most glaring thing here is how deeproot didn't say much of ANYTHING about what's on the playfield. Cabinet construction w custom dovetails, 2 versions of a floating head, pinbar, auto leveling, yadda yadda whatever... not a single mention of compelling playfield features, rules or shots.

I'll always prefer a well-designed and thought out traditional pinball over bling. No interest in deeproot whatsoever until I see compelling gameplay. While deeproot's been dicking around with endless cabinet redesigns (the curse of jpop), Elwin's cranked out three amazing games for Stern. What the hell is going on at deeproot?

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#11136 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I don't mind and it's supposed to be not final if you read Jeffs text, so we'll see.

So they're going to spend more money and time to cover up the newfangled lift system they didn't need to invent except to accommodate this new "pinbar" thing that partially blocks view of the flippers and tells people what to shoot in case they somehow miss the inserts on the playfield telling them where to shoot.

Sounds like a winner to me!

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#11383 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from jawjaw:

JJP is celebrated for having these features and Stern criticized for having less

I see Stern games outselling JJP because Stern games have more interesting rules and shots. Wonkas aren't exactly flying out the door... meanwhile Stern can barely make enough JP Prems and TMNTs and Avengers to satisfy demand.

Bling doesn't always mean better.

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#11386 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from HighVoltage:

By the way, while Spooky claimed R&M was sold out in a matter of hours, distributors still had them a couple months later as well, and that was their hottest game.

Now you're just being disingenuous. There were people clamoring for that game the minute it went on sale (literally), and IF there was any stock leftover at dists, it was simply because buyers were unaware, or the dist marked the game up. I don't think there were really any games available past the first hour... it just took dists (and Spooky) a while to make up their buyer lists.

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#11388 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Apple is a lifestyle company, not a technology company.

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#11395 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from HighVoltage:

You're wrong: not disingenuous at all: that's 100% factual. You could still order a game a couple of months after the proclaimed "Sold Out" from a distributor. I saw a distributor advertise availability and even inquired.

Who was the dist and what was the price?

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#11397 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from benheck:

Put some drop down wheels at rear of cabinet so it becomes its own cart

I've got a golden tee cabaret with these wheels and yes, it's really nice to move.

Quoted from benheck:

Spend money on mechs not art

Spend on mechs not extra licensing. Art still needs to be decent, no one wants a butt-ugly game...

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#11408 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from HighVoltage:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rick-amp-morty-pinball-from-spooky/page/160#post-5414260

Edit: maybe it wasn't a couple months, just remember there being plenty of time to still order, someone else can calculate the dates, don't really care.

And if you read the thread, you'll see a bunch of people asking WHERE DID YOU FIND ONE?! Even then people were clamoring for the game. Looks like a spot opened up after the initial flood. Spots open up even today... doesn't change the sellout status.

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#11439 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from yancy:

Because it's simple, time tested, rock solid technology that just plain works. I can navigate a Williams or Stern menu faster than you can do anything on a fancy touchscreen device. Never have to worry if my app is updated. Never have to go upstairs and grab my phone if I left it in the living room. Never have to troubleshoot the bluetooth dongle firmware or whatever the hell will inevitably break my ability to change something I can do in ten seconds with existing hardwired buttons. Don't have to worry about fat-fingering something on a touchscreen.

Not to mention app development, security, etc. Someone has to create the app you're going to use to communicate with the game. You gotta get the app accepted on the respective app stores. Of course, you have to lock out joe public from messing with your game on location, so the app has to have security and now you have user accounts and ACLs. Yea.. "just a phone."

4 buttons behind a locked coindoor work amazingly well by comparison.

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#11479 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from PtownPin:

I think the PinBar is a great idea (who wouldn't want more real time information during game play)

Put the info on the playfield where it belongs. That's why there's inserts. A well-designed game shouldn't require reading a secondary screen to know where to shoot. TSPP is a great example.. the TV toy doubles as the timer and is plainly visible right there on the playfield.

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#11508 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Your palms. WMS didn't want to make molds for their super widebody lockdown bars in the late 70s so they fabbed up bars by bending metal, leaving sharper corners that dig into your palms. They really do kinda suck.

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#11529 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from ZMeny:

HUGE credit given to Chandler on this broadcast. Zach didn’t take it easy on him and asked the questions that needed to be asked.

Are you talking about yourself in the 3rd person or are there two Zach's on TPN?

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#11533 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from nwpinball:

Maybe Pinside players have weak hands? I do wonder how people use tables and countertops if they fear normal edges and corners will hurt them.

Do you grab the corners of dinner tables and shake them between each bite?

No?

Can I have bad analogies for $1000, Alex?

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#11538 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

I was (pre-covid) in 3 pinball leagues.
We had 2 guys that always whore those finger cut-off gloves.
Never got that....your that intense of player?

If their hands sweat like mine, gloves can help maintain a grip on stainless lockdown bars while shoving the game.

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#11587 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Tomass:

Except people who have actually tried firsthand this have said it is a non-issue.

Some engineer at Williams in 1978 probably said the same thing. I'll believe it when I can feel it in the palms of my grubby little hands

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#11620 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from PtownPin:

I wasn't commenting on the back box. I was saying that their cabinet design is pretty slick. Having the ability to access the play field without removing the glass is a great idea.

Bally used this design for a while in the 70s, then switched back. I do not know whether they switched back due to costs, or operator complaints. Hopefully deeproot researched what happened back in the 70s before re-inventing the design.

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#12040 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

This p(a)inbar really seems to be a regression when it comes to actual functionality. Look at how lockbar buttons are currently used: players beating the crap out of them to eat pizza or shoot tiefighters, players quickly slapping them to save a ball (magnasave, walker bombs to start MB), etc.

Does DR realize how unsatisfying it's going to be to pound on a touchscreen instead of an obvious, lit-up physical button? Touchscreen will probably be OK for casual presses like selecting a GoT house, but things like firing an ACDC cannon for 100M SJ during multiball? I want that brightly-lit physical button to slam.

DR: stop reinventing shit and just make the damn game. If it's true y'all fixed the ramp, let's see gameplay vids instead of crate demos.

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#12055 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from clempo:

You can see for yourself in Cary Hardy's latest video. There is a short amount of gameplay video around the 20:06 mark. They shoot the ramp successfully multiple times in rapid succession.

Ah cool. I usually skip the bloggers but will check out this vid. Thanks for the heads-up re: skipping first 20 min..

1 month later
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#13706 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from benheck:

Also the dirty little secret since the dawn of time is you NEVER own software you are merely granted the license to use it. So yes, if you sold a DR machine secondhand the content would be locked to new user unless they subscribed.

I would hope the license for DLC content is transferable along with the game. People sell secondhand software pretty regularly, it's fine as long as everything is transferred to new owner.

Otherwise you'll have people registering their DR games with information that could simply be transferred to the new owner ("OK the game's loaded up, here's its registration email account logon info...") It could get really stupid if DR tries to make money on every secondhand sale of their games...

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#13759 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from cpr9999:

Dang this thread is nasty to DR.

They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away.

Not a DR fan but hell a new pinball start up isn’t a bad thing.

Problem is they've been "starting" since the first magic girl announcement in what.. 2011? John (and yes, most of the ire is directed his way) has had over nine years to get a pinball released, and here we are late 2020, tons of time and money spent and still no production games.

1 week later
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#13860 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Just fyi, the kaneda shutdown thread says that the GS interview was with a rando GS and not *the* GS.

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#14269 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Exactly. It’s also a tribute to Comet and Hurricane.

...and appears to be continuing the downward trend Hurricane started.

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#14368 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from benheck:

Oh but it's so much fun to speculate. In addition I was there for some of it so it's interesting to see if the puzzle pieces fit in the ways I expected.
There's a bit of "original sin" as well, since my name was originally attached (again John's idea not mine)

Back when Zombie Adventureland still had zombies... look how far we've strayed.

bhza (resized).jpgbhza (resized).jpg
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#14428 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Mr68:

I hate it even at home with my Spooky games when I see an advertisement for Pinball Life.

I hate ads as well, but the Spooky stuff really doesn't bother me as they just list the companies involved with creating that particular game. RZSI shows Pinballlife and Back Alley; IIRC those companies supplied most of the parts for the game. I always considered PBL and SP to be partners of sorts anyway.

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#14484 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Makakka:

Its not the best table mechanical and designwise but it contains the relam of imagination only JPop can create.

Man you really drank the jpop kool-aid. His games are mediocre. All the visible art was actually drawn by others. Jpop just laid out playfields and designed some mechs (and recycled other mechs from old games). He was a competent designer in that he released 4 games that were reasonably fun (SWep1 was constrained and just not good).

From a gameplay perspective, his 90s games don't hold a candle to modern offerings.

3 months later
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#17170 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Games are coming along, they're making the Zidware(tm) slingshot assemblies now....

https://imgur.com/gallery/Bj59FRC

3 weeks later
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#17887 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Makakka:

AP games lack spirit charme intrigue mystery that JPop is known for. Soulless games. The exact opposite of what JPop brings to the table.

I owned 4 of his 5 WMS games. They were all reasonably fun, but there's no intrigue, charm or mystery.

Best parts of CV are the art, music and rules, none of which John had much to do with. The playfield is clunky and needed numerous kits to fix ball hangups and other issues. TOTAN and TOM are ok players.. what exactly is so intriguing about them? Modes, 3ball multiball, quick MB, just like all the other 90s WMS titles. If 'intriguing' is having a female voice constantly gushing over how great the player is, count me out.

I enjoyed WCS94 the longest; had it for over 10 years. It was a solid player and just a fun game. It was also his first one. All downhill from there... Ep1 is just a trainwreck.

I'm pretty curious how RAZA will be simply considering it's been 22 years since his last game.

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#17983 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Rarehero:

another threatened my child publicly on the forum.

Please show where this happened. I saw the post in question and all they did was call *you* out for posting like an ass with your kid as an avatar (at which point you changed to your anti-deeproot cult pic)

2 months later
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#19577 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from JodyG:

If Stern decided you need join a club to get a game, made you commit to buying the game with no gameplay video, and made you put a deposit on said game for up to 18 months before shipping, pinheads would be ready to storm Chicago.

They're already doing the first two. Join the Stern club for a crack at the LEs before anyone else. Just started with Mando.

Y'all making a big deal out of clubs that cost less than a flipper assembly. I like it - gives anyone a chance at the LEs that people so covet.

2 weeks later
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#20548 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Lounge:

Brother, for your own edification, go for it. But I don’t think anyone in this thread cares.

Yeah, at this point parking lot inventory is meh, he needs to visit the actual office. C'mon Ice, you're their customer, go say Hi and see how your game is coming along! Tell 'em you need to see Ned now. Don't leave, just keep repeating "need to see Ned now" over and over til they let you in.

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#20567 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from TreyBo69:

How much audio do they need for a deepfake recording these days?
Get Jeffy Bezos on the line, I got something for his servers to work on!

You don't need servers or AI for a good self-song, just lots of material and time

Go to http://idsa.net and check out the rush theme song for a good example

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#20577 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from TreyBo69:

I could only take about 30 seconds of it before I had to stop. Too many bad memories of being a child in my moms car while she listened to that crap. But kudos because you put a lot of effort into it.

Oh hell I can't take credit for making that, only for being fast enough to tape it when WEBN played it once, decades ago. Never heard it again; I think WEBN caught shit for it since WLW was under the same ownership and they carried rush...

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#20738 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from iceman44:

And you won’t change any minds here. Like a bunch of vultures flying over a dying animal.

Dude, it's been 10 years. More like the zombified carcass of the animal that's been eaten and regurgitated twice, then reanimated by necromancer mueller.

It. Just. Won't. DIE!

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#20740 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from flynnibus:

Pinball hasn't reached the 'antique' or 'collectors' phase... we are still in the 'hot rod' phase. So the more blinged, pimped, and envy inducing it can be... the higher the price.

Oh it's been in antique phase for as long as anything else, look at the crazy prices on the few "desirable" woodrails out there.

Problem is, as an art form, one of pinball's biggest draws is the gameplay, and boring woodrails and EMs just don't garner much interest from anyone. Think of all the Christmas and partridge family and oak ridge boys LP you find at the thrift stores... old crappy EMs and woodrails (and SS games) are just like those. Bad art, boring gameplay, too many made, no one wants.

Of course, as the supply dries up, even the bad examples slowly become desirable...

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#20797 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from ZNET:

In other words, the typical pinball enthusiast, who follows a RAZA thread here on Pinside or who exclusively buys NIB Stern, JJP, Spooky and AP games, TBL, Alien et. al to accompany their classic Williams-Bally titles, may be unaware that substantial niche collector markets exist in pinball for the older games and those markets are growing.

That's basically what I said - some older titles fetch big bucks but the majority do not. Genuine question: do you think the market is growing to the point most remaining early games/woodrails will become valuable, or will the high dollars stay with a few select titles? I haven't followed that market and thus any growth has been under my radar. Is there that much difference between a 17K woodrail and a $300 one? Is it just rarity or does gameplay have a significant factor in pricing?

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#20814 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from ZNET:

My comment was meant to emphasize that many of these older games are really fun to play. Your comment seemed somewhat dismissive of older games in terms of the design sophistication quotient. The designs are often ingenious. The rule-sets "code" on the 1954 woodrails are super deep.

The comment was based on my play experience, and seeing plenty for sale quite cheap. If there are sleepers that play great but haven't yet hit crazy prices, I would be interested in checking them out. I played a bunch of woodrails at the Pacific Pinball Expo when it was a thing, and while some titles were pretty interesting, others just seemed dull with not much to do.

Right now, I have three woodrails: Triplets, Shindig and Hi Diver. The first two happened to come along with other games, but I specifically got the Hi Diver because it looked like it would be a good player with the upper flippers helping keep action across the entire playfield. The other two don't seem as interesting, although I've heard good things about Shindig. All three still need to be restored to playing condition. I want to have at least one in my collection, but not opposed to a few if they're fun enough.

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#20820 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from ZNET:

Spending time on some of the woodrail A-listers (well-restored examples), like 1953 Gottlieb Grand Slam and 1952 Gottlieb Queen of Hearts can often convince hard-core skeptics that these old games are immensely entertaining and have long-term appeal. Feel free to message me for specific advice about titles.
Back to deeproot. . .

Why PM, it' not like there's anything to talk about WRT deeproot these days, at least not til the next parking lot update...

What's your opinion on those three I mentioned? I'll definitely keep an eye out for those you just did mention here, although I'm guessing they're hard to find outside of private collections these days.

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#20822 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

that would definitely put a dent in the woodrail discussion haha

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#20896 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from iceman44:

Mitchell and the MG “shinys” got theirs from AP funded in part with my money.

So who's dollars are going to fund your RAZA? This ponzi scam is nearing its end, will you be the one caught without a chair?

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#20909 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Yoreland:

A legal matter affecting RAZA arose around a month ago that we did not expect.

"Can you believe these vendors actually want PAID?? We never expected that!"

How hard is it to check for liens against businesses in TX? Anyway, that was a pretty empty update, so...

Quoted from ZNET:

A long time ago, Clay Harrell published his ratings of Gottlieb woodrails at the link below. Clay gives Shindig a C grade, Triplets a C+ and Hi Diver a B+. I rate Triplets a C- and Hi Diver a B and agree that Shindig is a C where C represents an average player. The A-titles are appreciably better than what you currently have. They are games that a collector enjoys playing in a line-up for many years. I have been lucky to have owned a good variety of woodrails for over 3 decades and have never tired of the A-titles.

I did see those ratings and read up on those three back in the day. I'm glad HD gets a B from you as well, as I wasn't expecting a lot from the others and you kinda confirmed that. HD may be the best I get. I'd love to get one of the A-listers but that boat may have sailed.

Quoted from ZNET:

A-title woodrails are not exclusive to Gottlieb, although Gottlieb does dominate that pinball category. I rate Chicago Coin Thing, Williams Gusher and Williams Skyway as A-titles, for example. In fact, my Pinside profile includes a comprehensive article about CCM's enigmatic woodrail Thing, which features Roy Parker art and an extraordinary audio feature. Thing is a remarkable game.

I did not read that yet, will do. Games with unusual features would definitely interest me. It looks like Williams made a number of interesting woodrails, while as you say Gottlieb tended to be the best of the 60s and 70s.

It's a shame PPE is no more, as they seemed to have a huge collection of woodrails at their show. Related, it'll be interesting to see how many sell during the MoP auction and what they go for... too bad that's across the country from me.

1 week later
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#21979 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Frax:

I'm in one, and it sucks. They're so worthless that the COVID notice on their front page of our local is dated *2017*, not kidding.

Covid didn't exist in 2017; is that a typo or did they recycle some old flu guidance page and forget to change the dates?

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#22305 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Richthofen:

Stern games are cheaper than 90s WMS games in almost all cases

No, you're forgetting many WPCs are 3-4K and all Spike games are at least 5K+

Quoted from Richthofen:

Stern games have deeper rules in almost all cases

Lyman and Elwin games yes, the rest are a wash

Quoted from Richthofen:

Stern games are more reliable in almost all cases

Not proven. Let's see Spike games in 20 years.

Quoted from Richthofen:

Stern games shoot faster and have snappier flippers out of the box

HELL no. Brand new WPC flippers are 2nd best ever, only Capcom are better

Quoted from Richthofen:

Stern games have LCD screens, bright LED lights, modern themes, etc

Yes Spike games are brighter with video screens.

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#22308 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from TreyBo69:

I sometimes question people who think JP isn't pretty linear. The map does not have that many permutations to it and isn't much of a focus. It's neat but some people make it out to be more deep than it is. It's not like choosing minor villain in Batman 66 or having a character select like GoT, Stern Star Wars, or JJP POTC. Those can really change how the game plays. Stern Star Trek is one of my favorites with how you can fill out your mode grid for rewards or repeat modes to add permeant shot multipliers on particular shots.

Before I played it, I initially thought JP would be boring because it's always the same thing, catch the dino in the paddock. After getting and playing the game, I realized that was way off... this is a game where the sum is greater than the parts.

The Control room modes, T-rex events, Chaos multiball and Raptor multiball all combine to really mix the game up. If you're in Control Room, you're not advancing T-Rex as much (and vice-versa), so gameplay varies quite a bit there. I've had games where I didn't start the first T_Rex MB til I was on the 4th paddock. The smart missile's ability to instantly award valuable features can change a game dramatically in an instant. And side features like Pteranadon can be huge if played correctly.

Most importantly though, on top of all those other features, is how each dino plays differently. Paddocks are almost never a case of making a set number of shots and finishing the mode. The rescues are scattered randomly, some dinos seek out nearby employees whole others don't, some dinos are fast, some can make special moves, some are immune to tranquilizers, etc. Every paddock is a unique mini-game. Rescues and rescue streaks are important for lighting features and scoring well, so you always have to balance rescuing employees with all those other features. Tougher dinos require trap and helipad shots, which then add strategy - do you use your supertranq to stop the dino on an "easy" shot, then try to shoot the trap, heli and capture before he can move, or do you save the tranq for an employee in danger? Or leaving an employee at control room unrescued til the last minute to lure the dino all the way to the left, then try to get traps and heli going to catch the dino at the easy up the middle shots as he comes back across the island for more meals? Setting up successful traps against tough dinos later in the game requires more forethought than most pinball modes. It all combines to make gameplay unlike any other modern pinball I've played.

1 week later
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#23595 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I do not do drugs, but I do drink beer!

Maybe you need to swap that, drugs may illuminate you better than beer. Alcohol didn't work for iceman...

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#23599 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Bublehead:

The most infuriating aspect to all of this is that someone can steal a bunch of other peoples money

The one key here is that people willingly gave the thieves their money, rather than the thieves committing B&E or hacking or otherwise taking it unknowingly.

Never go with sketchy companies for your investment OR pinball needs.

1 week later
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#25135 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Well, normally manufacturers need to go through the process to obtain an FCC electronics certification. When talking about electronics & manufacturing, it's not unusual for the topic of the FCC regulations to enter the conversation. I don't know if too many pinheads would be terribly interested in the details of working through all those rules & regulations, though. So maybe all that could've been why Jeff didn't catch its significance and dive into it? Who knows.

Yeah, especially with those goofy cabinets, it's quite reasonable to assume issues with FCC. Can you keep EMI under control in those stilts for the head?

SEC isn't a term used much when discussing pinball manufacturing.

And if you say the acronyms aloud, they do sound almost exactly alike.

7 months later
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#30428 2 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

The Deeproot motors/gearboxes are super cheap. I bought 4 of each for potential homebrew use down the road. Thanks to PBL for passing along the fire sale savings.

2 months later
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#31400 1 year ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Because you keep posting in the thread dedicated to the biggest scam in pinball, reminding people you've gone bankrupt, and asking for money from people who know better.

Pretty much. I bought one of his SG playfields, it was nice and I had a good opinion of his business acumen back then. These last few months... yeesh, you really gotta stop drinking and posting, John.

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