(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

4 years ago


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There are 27,308 posts in this topic. You are on page 418 of 547.
#20851 4 months ago

It comes with twenty four games from some cool indie developers.

I’ll put my money where my mouth is when I think something is cool and well designed.

#20852 4 months ago

“We’re done with quad-assembly, that’s Just too old for us. We are now moving on to octo-assembly.”

This Isn’t a red flag… It’s more like a fireworks factory exploding

#20853 4 months ago

20,000 + posts summed up in one post.

"Catfished"

#20854 4 months ago

Contracting out production is the only logical way to move forward. I know of multiple groups that are getting ready to join in the market frenzy. They are aware of the many past failures, & the few survivors. No one at Deep Root has reached out to me personally. At this time I fully believe the groups I am talking with are not Deep Root contractors. But if one is they are keeping it super secret, & I firmly believe it very unlikely since it will be next year before they likely produce pinball machines.

Deep Root if they have a production contractor ready, & certification in hand. Could get all the RAZA pins built & more this year. This weird world, my guess would be Homepin with Joe Balcer. That team knows how to actually get pinball machines built. Still could be a USA contractor (not already in the industry) with their guidance. Or it could be Deep Root staff guiding the new contractor, or a real pinball company doing the build. If that is the case American Pinball would be the most likely to be doing it. Dave Fix & I have not had a good talk.

Anyways that are my thoughts for this time. If I have any other knowledge that I can share I will. Have a good weekend! Today would of been the best for Robert or a new spokesperson to formally announce production & a bunch of pictures.

18
#20855 4 months ago

I’m heading to Allentown today to see and play real pinball machines. It’s kinda a thing.

#20856 4 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I just see shrink wrapped boxes. Show me carts & a working system and maybe we’ve got something.
Also on the new-retro front, Playdate went up for sale today and sold their 20,000 unit 2021 allotment in about 30 min. They’ve sent preview units to gaming media…totally transparent. Excited for this goofy little yellow system!

I've been on the Playdate preorder list since the start. I'm not sure why they expressly stated recently that the original 20,000 would not sell out. In any event, I'm looking forward to delivery in 2022, since I neglected to order immediately.

I agree that their development was fully transparent these last couple of years.

#20857 4 months ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

I’m heading to Allentown today to see and play real pinball machines. It’s kinda a thing.

Be careful, that jump from fantasy land to reality can be quite daunting.

#20858 4 months ago

Do you think deeproot still has full time script writers on staff?

#20859 4 months ago
Quoted from valgalder:

Do you think deeproot still has full time script writers on staff?

Mort Tuary and Grim Reaper

#20860 4 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

I've been on the Playdate preorder list since the start. I'm not sure why they expressly stated recently that the original 20,000 would not sell out. In any event, I'm looking forward to delivery in 2022, since I neglected to order immediately.
I agree that their development was fully transparent these last couple of years.

I think you were mistaken. They said they order 20k in advance to ship in 2021. They said would take as many preorders as they receive, but those would be pushed into 2022.

12
#20861 4 months ago

The lack of any July update is damning. There's no way deeproot is sitting on "good news". And they know the only good news that matters, after taking pre-orders 8 months ago, is games leaving their facility.

They are so far away from that happening that they'd rather say nothing. How long can this possibly go on for?

11
#20862 4 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Contracting out production is the only logical way to move forward.

There’s nothing logical about how DR has conducted business.

Contracting would involve another business, one where every dime is important. We saw what happened when Dutch tried to contract - the contractor didn’t get paid, stopped, and held games hostage. There are already reports of DR not paying employees. What contractor in their right mind would want to get involved with this, unless paid in full up front?

The biggest issue with DR is that there is no logical endgame. They reached a point where profit is impossible.

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

This weird world, my guess would be Homepin

Oh sure, let’s get two egotistical people with poor reputations together. That’s a recipe for success.

#20863 4 months ago

Listening to RM, all I heard was lofty goals, failed promises, and false bravado.

No humility or undersell/over-delivery, which goes a long way. He literally did the opposite of what I was hoping to hear.

I really wanted deeproot to succeed. I knew nothing of RM before the quotes on Kaneda, but now that I've heard him speak and am able to assess and gauge the man based on these clips, I really don't think dr will go anywhere. It's hard to work for a guy like that. I would assume it's a nightmare.

A deeproot failure is a blow to the pinball community imo. More success is good for all of us. Such a shame.

11
#20864 4 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The biggest issue with DR is that there is no logical endgame. They reached a point where profit is impossible.

^^^This^^^ in a significant way. Even Goonies couldn't pull this company into the black.

Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:

I knew nothing of RM before the quotes on Kaneda, but now that I've heard him speak and am able to assess and gauge the man based on these clips, I really don't think dr will go anywhere.

Kaneda announced on his Facebook stream an upcoming, Deep Thoughts Part 3.

#20865 4 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

How long can this possibly go on for?

Workin' for Deeproot
Goin' on down, down
Workin' for Deeproot
Oops, about to slip down
Workin' for Deeproot
Goin' on down, down
Workin' for Deeproot
Oops, about to slip down
Five o'clock in the mornin'
I'm already up and gone
Lord, I'm so tired
How long can this go on?

#20866 4 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Contracting out production is the only logical way to move forward. I know of multiple groups that are getting ready to join in the market frenzy. They are aware of the many past failures, & the few survivors. No one at Deep Root has reached out to me personally. At this time I fully believe the groups I am talking with are not Deep Root contractors. But if one is they are keeping it super secret, & I firmly believe it very unlikely since it will be next year before they likely produce pinball machines.

Contracting is tough, for a lot of reasons, but especially when you can't provide a steady stream of work to the contracting company.

My experiences in the past have also been that they have high labor turnover rates, which means new people are constantly having to be trained and are making fresh mistakes over and over again.

Whenever I've done contract negotiations with contracting companies, they've always wanted me to guarantee a minimum amount of work per time period (week, month, etc..). Most contractors have also wanted me to pay for a manager per X number of employees as well.

They typically also want you to supply all the parts for assembly in advance of the work.

My guess is deeproot is having a lot of trouble getting the factories that make pinball assemblies to fit them into the schedule. If you were a factory owner with established contracts with Stern, JJP, AP, and Spooky filling up your schedule, the new guy on the block gets to wait for a long time. Exponentially harder if you've talked shit the entire time and the established companies tell the factories not to service your orders.

"Pinball mafia" in Chicago isn't just some random thing someone made up. There's personal connections and loyalties there. The wall to keep deeproot out was built when Robert talked endless trash.

#20867 4 months ago

...

#20868 4 months ago

paid off some of his lawsuits

#20869 4 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

paid off some of his lawsuits

Damn. Gotta remake it. lol.

#20870 4 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

How long can this possibly go on for?

#20871 4 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

How long can this possibly go on for?

I think this is the most fascinating part of this whole saga. They have greatly exceeded expecations on how long they can draw out the process of delivering nothing. I really do hope that they pull off a miracle by some unforseen path forward. Not necessarily for them, but for those that really want these machines. Competition is good for all of us and the industry. However, I don't see how anyone can objectively look at this and see it trending in a positive direction. Hope is not a strategy and that seems to be all that is left.

#20872 4 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

The lack of any July update is damning. There's no way deeproot is sitting on "good news". And they know the only good news that matters, after taking pre-orders 8 months ago, is games leaving their facility.
They are so far away from that happening that they'd rather say nothing. How long can this possibly go on for?

For as long as people still give them attention.

#20873 4 months ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh: The wall to keep deeproot out was built when Robert talked endless trash.

Don’t shit where you eat.

#20874 4 months ago

If there's no update today, I think we can call it.

#20875 4 months ago

To borrow an expression from our friends down under, this company is deeply rooted.

#20876 4 months ago
Quoted from SeafaringSpiders:

If there's no update today, I think we can call it.

This ain't over till the courts say it is

#20877 4 months ago

I feel that Deeproot is going to handle this the same way that Milton was handled in Office Space. In summary, they will provide no update, no news, no nothing. Eventually everybody will find out on their own little by little. Robert will stay silent to the end and DR employees and customers will be out $$$ with no recourse.

#20878 4 months ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I feel that Deeproot is going to handle this the same way that Milton was handled in Office Space. In summary, they will provide no update, no news, no nothing. Eventually everybody will find out on their own little by little. Robert will stay silent to the end and DR employees and customers will be out $$$ with no recourse.

So the question remains: who will be the one to take away Robert’s Swingline? And will he set the building on fire.

#20879 4 months ago
Quoted from Insanity199:

I think this is the most fascinating part of this whole saga. They have greatly exceeded expecations on how long they can draw out the process of delivering nothing. I really do hope that they pull off a miracle by some unforseen path forward. Not necessarily for them, but for those that really want these machines. Competition is good for all of us and the industry. However, I don't see how anyone can objectively look at this and see it trending in a positive direction. Hope is not a strategy and that seems to be all that is left.

Zombie startups can go on years or even decades past their expiration date. LLCs rarely die entirely if there is any hope of investors extracting any asset out of it for not burning it to the ground. If DR does go down, the irony of RAZA being what did them in would be palpable.

#20880 4 months ago

Just curiouse if I'll get down voted for quoting.

#20881 4 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

So the question remains: who will be the one to take away Robert’s Swingline? And will he set the building on fire.

Mine shows signs of use too recently to pass as anything from the Deeproot storage facility.

0D7A9019-D85E-41FC-9994-2AAEBF7DD100 (resized).jpeg
#20882 4 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Mine shows signs of use too recently to pass as anything from the Deeproot storage facility.

Is that separate from the office or are they one and the same?

#20883 4 months ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Zombie startups can go on years or even decades past their expiration date. LLCs rarely die entirely if there is any hope of investors extracting any asset out of it for not burning it to the ground. If DR does go down, the irony of RAZA being what did them in would be palpable.

Additionally, I’m sure Robert has been smart enough to set up a Rabbi’s Trust for himself so he can plow tax-free money into that. This requires the LLC continue to exist

#20884 4 months ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Zombie startups can go on years or even decades past their expiration date. LLCs rarely die entirely if there is any hope of investors extracting any asset out of it for not burning it to the ground. If DR does go down, the irony of RAZA being what did them in would be palpable.

I clearly understand why people want their games. But I'll never understand the obsession over wanting to own RAZA, other than its unobtainable.
Its amazing that the same title was used in two separate scans.

#20885 4 months ago

Anyone who believes deep root is NOT a scam is an easy mark.

"Con" man is short for confidence. He must exude confidence and suck you into the money machine.

Ways Robert gained your confidence... Not just quad manufacturing, but Octo! Not just a few titles, but over TWENTY!!! Going to produce more pins than all others combined!!! Innovation beyond your wildest dreams!!!

Please people, they raised a ton of money selling snake oil, are trying to ponzi an already ponzied game (which blows my mind that it's been done twice now with JP) and they will keep it going until every last penny is siphoned off by them.

There is no pinball company. Just a classic con man taking your money. Facts.

#20886 4 months ago

Can any business experts weigh in on the color of the flag flown by a business that took money for games from customers last year and provided updates about every two weeks, then four, then six, then not at all?

#20887 4 months ago
Quoted from Honch:

Its amazing that the same title was used in two separate scans.

I literally posted this seconds after you lol

13
#20888 4 months ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Anyone who believes deep root is NOT a scam is an easy mark.
"Con" man is short for confidence. He must exude confidence and suck you into the money machine.
Ways Robert gained your confidence... Not just quad manufacturing, but Octo! Not just a few titles, but over TWENTY!!! Going to produce more pins than all others combined!!! Innovation beyond your wildest dreams!!!
Please people, they raised a ton of money selling snake oil, are trying to ponzi an already ponzied game (which blows my mind that it's been done twice now with JP) and they will keep it going until every last penny is siphoned off by them.
There is no pinball company. Just a classic con man taking your money. Facts.

I suppose it's possible, but I'd put my money on the guy just being a total idiot who has no idea how to run a company that actually creates anything.

18
#20889 4 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

I suppose it's possible, but I'd put my money on the guy just being a total idiot who has no idea how to run a company that actually creates anything.

This. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequality explained by stupidity.

#20890 4 months ago

It's equal parts incompetence, arrogance and snake oil shyster slickery.

#20891 4 months ago

.

#20892 4 months ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Anyone who believes deep root is NOT a scam is an easy mark.
"Con" man is short for confidence. He must exude confidence and suck you into the money machine.
Ways Robert gained your confidence... Not just quad manufacturing, but Octo! Not just a few titles, but over TWENTY!!! Going to produce more pins than all others combined!!! Innovation beyond your wildest dreams!!!
Please people, they raised a ton of money selling snake oil, are trying to ponzi an already ponzied game (which blows my mind that it's been done twice now with JP) and they will keep it going until every last penny is siphoned off by them.
There is no pinball company. Just a classic con man taking your money. Facts.

Its kinda like if I saw a guy placing a bet that a cinder block would sprout wings, become sentient, and fly away I'd think he was out of his mind, but DR guys are pretty much doing the same thing and then acting like we're crazy for commenting on it.

#20893 4 months ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Anyone who believes deep root is NOT a scam is an easy mark.
"Con" man is short for confidence. He must exude confidence and suck you into the money machine.
Ways Robert gained your confidence... Not just quad manufacturing, but Octo! Not just a few titles, but over TWENTY!!! Going to produce more pins than all others combined!!! Innovation beyond your wildest dreams!!!
Please people, they raised a ton of money selling snake oil, are trying to ponzi an already ponzied game (which blows my mind that it's been done twice now with JP) and they will keep it going until every last penny is siphoned off by them.
There is no pinball company. Just a classic con man taking your money. Facts.

Just plain ignorance. They didn’t raise the money selling pinball!! Check your facts before you wade into the cesspool brother.

The pinball part is NOT a Ponzi. Lol

#20894 4 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Just plain ignorance. They didn’t raise the money selling pinball!! Check your facts before you wade into the cesspool brother.
The pinball part is NOT a Ponzi. Lol

Yeah it was just a poorly conceived and even worse executed business plan!

#20895 4 months ago
Quoted from Honch:

I clearly understand why people want their games. But I'll never understand the obsession over wanting to own RAZA, other than its unobtainable.
Its amazing that the same title was used in two separate scans.

It’s NOT an obsession. It’s just maybe getting a RAZA from Jpop finally because of DR.

Mitchell and the MG “shinys” got theirs from AP funded in part with my money. Never heard a peep out of me but if you are gonna keep throwing bombs and rooting hard that we don’t get ours then I’m gonna lob two right back at you.

Pretty simple don’t you think

#20896 4 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Mitchell and the MG “shinys” got theirs from AP funded in part with my money.

So who's dollars are going to fund your RAZA? This ponzi scam is nearing its end, will you be the one caught without a chair?

#20897 4 months ago
Quoted from metallik:

So who's dollars are going to fund your RAZA? This ponzi scam is nearing its end, will you be the one caught without a chair?

Someone else's dollars. JPop took him for thousands already and he settled for $6k in fun bucks in a company that could theoretically build a RAZA for him.

#20898 4 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Just plain ignorance. They didn’t raise the money selling pinball!! Check your facts before you wade into the cesspool brother.
The pinball part is NOT a Ponzi. Lol

They raised money, and then promised to build pinball

Time will tell my friend. Bookmark this post and eventually we will have resolution, one way or another.

#20899 4 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

This. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequality explained by stupidity.

Success and failure all start at the top. Particularly when that person involves him/herself in every aspect of the business.

Recognizing this, and knowing what we know about Robert's management and leadership styles, it's much harder to imagine how deeproot could possibly succeed than how it would fail. And, well, it's been a breathtakingly colossal failure to date.

17
#20900 4 months ago

The Latest:

Dear RAZA Customer:

We are sorry for the length of time without an update. We have been contacted by a few of you within the last few weeks. The main topics were how many people took the refund offer (3), is the refund offer still available (No), and what the status of the RAZA builds are.

A legal matter affecting RAZA arose around a month ago that we did not expect. We were advised by counsel to not send out any substantive communication while they worked to resolve it amicably. We have taken that advice while patiently waiting for it to be resolved. The back-and-forth has taken much, much longer than we expected. So we are providing this brief update so you understand what the delay is about.

We cannot discuss the parties or what the complaint is about. We cannot provide a timeline. What we can say is that we are working hard to resolve/settle it and we hope will be resolved very soon. We will be able to give a meaningful update at that time. Until then...

-Robert J. Mueller, Principal
deeproot Pinball

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