Topic index (key posts)

273 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

Quoted from TreyBo69:
If deeproot made your oven you’d die of food poisoning because everything is half baked. But man does it sure look good with the LEDs!

No you'd die of starvation because your oven would never get delivered in the first place

This thread just keeps on giving. The banter has had me hooked since page 1.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Holy shit!!
I just discovered my parents’ sick stove has a pinbar![quoted image]

UL certified?

Quoted from dc2010:
Does seem awfully HIGH

Quoted from benheck:
Well, he does suck.

HEY OH!

Thought I'd post some knee slappers from the other thread. Those guys are REAL deeproot devotees. I can't imagine where their confidence comes from.

Quoted from Charlemagne1987:
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but my guess is that Deeproot WILL deliver on its promised 160 or so games. If they wanted to rip people off they would have asked for more deposit money and they wouldn’t now be talking about refunds for displeased buyers who laid down deposits. We all know of JPOP’s sins, but he IS an incredible designer and Deeproot took a calculated chance on him. I think the current delays are exactly as Robert says...shipping on parts due to the pandemic. I sincerely hope you guys get your games. RAZA looks awesome.
And Deeproot has some very cool pins in the pipeline. If/when they deliver on RAZA, they will prove to all of us that they are a company worth buying from.

Quoted from kklank:
So excited to see this game become a reality. It really looks spectacular.
That guy playing the game in the video giving instruction is great to listen to and he’s a good player.
It’s crazy how strong the negativity is on this company. It’s just pinball. Lol.
People constantly telling you the sky is going to fall. So what if it does?
I’m keeping the faith in DR though. Great for pinball to add another pinball company cranking out games even in small volume.

Quoted from Makakka:
I was surprised and shocked when Cary Hardy backstabbed deeproot recently in a video and a Interview podcast. That pattern is reason why he got kicked out of TWIPY and is blacklisted by Stern and others.
In his video said he can’t imagine deeproot ever being able to produce RAZA. Confronted in the interview that the reveal video in December showed a working prototype he said he was surprised bc deeproot he could not imagine them being able to progress that fast...

Quoted from Mr68:
It's not just Kaneda, Carey Hardy, Ben Heck or the sceptics in the Deeproot thread. Check out the final 30 minutes of the LoserKid podcast.
https://soundcloud.com/loserkidpinballpodcast/ep-57-deeproot-to-the-future

Quoted from Yelobird:
And these opinions matter why again? They hunt for viral media attention or have a personal axe to grind. They have their own mission I wish them well.

Quoted from DakotaMike:
Thought I'd post some knee slappers from the other thread. Those guys are REAL deeproot devotees. I can't imagine where their confidence comes from.

SHIT! Busted for name dropping again!

You can't spell confidence without CON

Can't.......stop.......reading..........this thread.

Like driving by a car accident. I just can't look away.

QSS

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:
You also have to file with some sort of proof (we use streaming links, our DPK, digital flyers, and websites showing bookings), so they might still have just chosen to let it lapse

Yes - AKA ‘sales’ - which DR doesn’t have.

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Fair number of embarrassing behind the scenes details about Deeproot I hadn't heard elsewhere toward the end of this podcast (begins at about 90 minutes in)
https://flippinandmashing.podbean.com/e/ep-60-hardy-and-the-boys/

It's all fun and games picking on Deeproot but after listening to this podcast today , I almost feel bad , like when you tease a kid at school and then you find out they're retarded .

Finally got around to looking more closely at that real estate listing.

Can anyone point out where in that floor plan the manufacturing area is? I mean, a manufacturing area big enough to build production levels of machines, even "production levels" of under 200. Where is the stockroom to hold the parts for production levels of machines? Where are the loading docks for bringing in those parts and sending out those machines? (I only see one loading dock on the entire building, and it connects to their prototyping lab, and is one of those "loading docks-lite" when you are expecting box trucks moreso than tractor trailers.)

That is not, nor could it ever be, a manufacturing facility. Best case scenario, their production is being done somewhere else, a place nobody has discovered yet, the place someone should be counting cars in the parking lot. Worst case scenario... well, we have 350 pages telling us the worst case scenario.

Quoted from screaminr:
It's all fun and games picking on Deeproot but after listening to this podcast today , I almost feel bad , like when you tease a kid at school and then you find out they're retarded .

I like your political incorrectness and your accurate and old school use of the word "retarded".

It's "mentally challenged" to the rest of us sheep.

QSS

The funny thing is "retarded" used to be the polite, politically correct way of saying it.

Also deeproot is a scam.

Quoted from frobozz:
That is not, nor could it ever be, a manufacturing facility.

From my memory, the quad/octo manufacturing area WAS shown by Robert during the Deep 6 tour. It was empty space and he waved his hands around about what would be there, but it was implied it was in that building.

The first red flag about manufacturing should have been years back when they used "John Words" to explain it. "quad manufacture"

The only thing they've manufactured thus far is BULLSHIT.

Quoted from frolic:
From my memory, the quad/octo manufacturing area WAS shown by Robert during the Deep 6 tour. It was empty space and he waved his hands around about what would be there, but it was implied it was in that building.

Well then, could one of the Deep 6 point to it on the floorplan in that listing? I can't find anywhere big enough to store parts and assemble them, appropriate to the task (not an area with a wall of curved glass windows, for instance), and with the ability to get large quantities of things in and out easily by truck. Which is then, yes, all to say that the Deep 6 were Deep Faked because they were lied to.

And perhaps we've arrived at the true motivation for an alternative, revolutionary, works-in-a-typical-office-floorplan manufacturing paradigm: I signed a 60-month lease on a big playground building for my various companies and I want everything to happen there whether it makes sense for it to our not.

I remember Cary describing it as not existing

It always sounded more like a prototyping lab than a proper manufacturing area.

But hey, Spooky was able to build games in a tiny space. Though they also had a lot more realistic expectations of pace and put in the necessary sweat equity.

I think space and loading docks are the least of their issues. You can always work in less efficient spaces. And you don't be an Andrew and try to build an empire level facility before you even have a game.

Just a clue about how serious they were about their big boasts of doing everything better than Stern et al. They didn't say "we're going to start out small, with less manufacturing space than Spooky Pinball, and try to make even fewer games a year than they do."

Quoted from frobozz:
Well then, could one of the Deep 6 point to it on the floorplan in that listing? I can't find anywhere big enough to store parts and assemble them, appropriate to the task (not an area with a wall of curved glass windows, for instance), and with the ability to get large quantities of things in and out easily by truck. Which is then, yes, all to say that the Deep 6 were Deep Faked because they were lied to.

Respectfully, frobozz, it sounds like you are evaluating the floorplan from an antiquated standpoint. It would be akin to stepping into Jay Leno's garage and pointing out the absence of hay and oats as a 'gotcha' moment.

Deeproot doesn't employ a standard manufacturing process: It utilizes quad and octo assembly to build games. If you're unfamiliar with q/o, here are some helpful resources where Robert very clearly details exactly what it is and how it works, both in principle and practice. I recommend giving them a thorough review and then revisiting your evaluation of the DR factory.

Article 1 (Jan 24, 2018): https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-new-home-new-hires-5-days-deeproot-exclusive-follow-interview/

Screen Shot 2021-04-13 at 5.40.52 AM (resized).png

Article 2 (Feb 11, 2018): https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/twip-deeproot-podcast-interview-stern-new-hires-jjp-live-pirates/

Screen Shot 2021-04-13 at 5.41.49 AM (resized).png

Article 3 (Jul 29, 2018): https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/twip-monster-bash-confirmed-pinburgh-interviews-with-robert-mueller-and-ben-heck-godzilla-toho-vs-warner-bros/

Screen Shot 2021-04-13 at 5.42.34 AM (resized).png

Article 4 (December 13, 2020): https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-launches-opens-orders-and-interviews-led-zeppelin-teasers-jurassic-park-giveaway-new-p3-game-rick-and-morty-code-twip-12-7-20/

Screen Shot 2021-04-13 at 5.53.04 AM (resized).png

Quoted from TreyBo69:
I remember Cary describing it as not existing
It always sounded more like a prototyping lab than a proper manufacturing area.
But hey, Spooky was able to build games in a tiny space. Though they also had a lot more realistic expectations of pace and put in the necessary sweat equity.

Yea and I saw spooky's original space. Manufacturing area WAS very small (it was literally a row of 5 pins being built in one room full of parts and a couple desks, and then 5 in another where completed games were stored until the truck came to pick them up). When they brought a game out when you picked it up they had to cart it out down a very narrow hallway with a z-bend out to a small one door dock in an incubator building. But that worked for them because they were making boutique quantities back then (they've now expanded 4 times?). Deeproot planned to build more pinballs than anyone else, then they took less orders than a boutique startup.

Quoted from frobozz:
Finally got around to looking more closely at that real estate listing.
Can anyone point out where in that floor plan the manufacturing area is? I mean, a manufacturing area big enough to build production levels of machines, even "production levels" of under 200. Where is the stockroom to hold the parts for production levels of machines? Where are the loading docks for bringing in those parts and sending out those machines? (I only see one loading dock on the entire building, and it connects to their prototyping lab, and is one of those "loading docks-lite" when you are expecting box trucks moreso than tractor trailers.)
That is not, nor could it ever be, a manufacturing facility. Best case scenario, their production is being done somewhere else, a place nobody has discovered yet, the place someone should be counting cars in the parking lot. Worst case scenario... well, we have 350 pages telling us the worst case scenario.

It shows a "lab / manufacturing" photo
manufacturing_space (resized).png
The photo looks to be showing the top half of this area on the map:
DEEPROOT_MFG_MAP (resized).png
It seems to be the only area with a large door opening. If I had to guess, there's a concrete slab outside tall enough to load directly onto a truck trailer. This hardly seems ideal, but that seems to be the only feasible area where they planned to build them

I wonder how Deep Root's set up compares to the Italian company now manufacturing Alien. They seem to have gotten up and running much faster, I'm guessing with a similar low number of orders, and the first games of their line are starting to hit the states I think next week.

All those Robert quotes are complete and utter BS.

"Trade secrets" = it doesn't exist.

RE that photo, as if they'd be assembling BEAUTIFUL GAMES anywhere near a welding station. That looks more like a hackerspace than manufacturing. Where are all the components? Bins? Piles of assemblies?

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Respectfully, frobozz, it sounds like you are evaluating the floorplan from an antiquated standpoint. It would be akin to stepping into Jay Leno's garage and pointing out the absence of hay and oats as a 'gotcha' moment.

I know you're being funny (and it is quite hilarious to put all those vaporous buzzwords all in one place like that!) but even if his manufacturing plan involved unicorns breathing in air pollution and pooping out pinball machines, you still have a large pile of large, heavy boxes you need to ship out using traditional non-unicorn-based methods. Which you couldn't do from that building.

Yeah, that lab space is a dandy model shop/proto buildup space. It's nice to have a roll-up door there. But that is no manufacturing space, in any way that would allow any quantities of games to be built and shipped.

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Respectfully, frobozz, it sounds like you are evaluating the floorplan from an antiquated standpoint. It would be akin to stepping into Jay Leno's garage and pointing out the absence of hay and oats as a 'gotcha' moment.
Deeproot doesn't employ a standard manufacturing process: It utilizes quad and octo assembly to build games. If you're unfamiliar with q/o, here are some helpful resources where Robert very clearly details exactly what it is and how it works, both in principle and practice. I recommend giving them a thorough review and then revisiting your evaluation of the DR factory.
Article 1 (Jan 24, 2018): https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-new-home-new-hires-5-days-deeproot-exclusive-follow-interview/
[quoted image]
Article 2 (Feb 11, 2018): https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/twip-deeproot-podcast-interview-stern-new-hires-jjp-live-pirates/
[quoted image]
Article 3 (Jul 29, 2018): https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/twip-monster-bash-confirmed-pinburgh-interviews-with-robert-mueller-and-ben-heck-godzilla-toho-vs-warner-bros/
[quoted image]
Article 4 (December 13, 2020): https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-launches-opens-orders-and-interviews-led-zeppelin-teasers-jurassic-park-giveaway-new-p3-game-rick-and-morty-code-twip-12-7-20/
[quoted image]

But then he said recently the octo manufacturing was just a joke. Very trustworthy guy, why would anyone be skeptical about anything hes said?

"we're going to ship more games than every other manufacturer combined" is really the one of the best jokes Robert ever told

Honestly it's probably best they didn't already pay for a giant facility. They don't need it based off the actual orders they got and they're still not even close to being ready to begin building consumer units.

Robert probably regrets not just buying a couple pins and playing a video game like Factorio for funsies.

Quoted from frobozz:
Yeah, that lab space is a dandy model shop/proto buildup space. It's nice to have a roll-up door there. But that is no manufacturing space, in any way that would allow any quantities of games to be built and shipped.

agreed.. not saying it IS a manufacturing space, saying it's the only space that attempts to be a manufacturing space.

Quoted from benheck:
RE that photo, as if they'd be assembling BEAUTIFUL GAMES anywhere near a welding station. That looks more like a hackerspace than manufacturing. Where are all the components? Bins? Piles of assemblies?

Even beyond the parts bins (again we can't see the other half of that room), Just managing parts (inventory, transferring parts from boxes to bins) takes up space. I'm guessing Robert didn't think about any of this because he never actually took a tour of a manufacturing facility to understand what's required.

Quoted from toyotaboy:
It shows a "lab / manufacturing" photo
[quoted image]
The photo looks to be showing the top half of this area on the map:
[quoted image]
It seems to be the only area with a large door opening. If I had to guess, there's a concrete slab outside tall enough to load directly onto a truck trailer. This hardly seems ideal, but that seems to be the only feasible area where they planned to build them

You've got the wrong location in the building. This is what's pictured as the lab area:

floorplan (resized).jpg

RM: Quad Assembly will provide rapid and dynamic on-demand manufacturing abilities that current pinball manufacturers will have a hard time to match. We’ll be able to throttle and provide process fluctuations with flexible distribution. Following this concept allows for cross-functional staffing resulting in higher productivity and decreased manufacturing costs.

If I threw words into a blender I couldn’t come up with a more non-sensical and meaningless series of sentences than that.

Quoted from pookycade:
RM: Quad Assembly will provide rapid and dynamic on-demand manufacturing abilities that current pinball manufacturers will have a hard time to match. We’ll be able to throttle and provide process fluctuations with flexible distribution. Following this concept allows for cross-functional staffing resulting in higher productivity and decreased manufacturing costs.
If I threw words into a blender I couldn’t come up with a more non-sensical and meaningless series of sentences than that.

I think they teach you this bullshit in millionaire school.

It’s agile technology!

Quad Assembly Response : Dynamic Word Salad with Throttle Fluctuation Dressing

Quoted from pookycade:
If I threw words into a blender I couldn’t come up with a more non-sensical and meaningless series of sentences than that.

Once you can stop laughing at it you will get the sadz from the realization that we are all dumber for having read it.

No context needed... Weird Al had some words on this subject.

Edit:

We must all efficiently
Operationalize our strategies
Invest in world-class technology
And leverage our core competencies
In order to holistically administrate
Exceptional synergy
We'll set a brand trajectory
Using management's philosophy
Advance our market share vis-à-vis
Our proven methodology
With strong commitment to quality
Effectively enhancing corporate synergy
Transitioning our company
By awareness of functionality
Promoting viability
Providing our supply chain with diversity (-versity, ooooh)
We will distill our identity
Through client-centric solutions
And synergy
(Oooooh oooh oooh)
(Ahhhhhh)
At the end of the day (At the end of the day)
We must monetize our assets
The fundamentals have changed
Can you visualize a value-added experience?
That will grow the business infrastructure and
Monetize our assets
Monetize our assets
Monetize our assets
Bringing to the table
Our capitalized reputation
Proactively overseeing
Day-to-day operations
Services and deliverables
With cross-platform innovation
Networking soon will bring seamless integration
Robust and scalable, bleeding-edge and next-generation
Best of breed
We'll succeed
In achieving globalization
Gaining traction with our resources in the marketplace
It's mission-critical to stay incentivized
Against this purple-poster-flexible-solutions for our customer base
If you can't think outside the box
You'll be downsized
It's a paradigm shift! (Hey, Hey! Look out!)
Well, it's a paradigm shift, now!
(Here we go! Here we go! Here we come! Here we come! Ha!)

Cross functional staffing rules!!!

It’s like lean and agile, but better.

Does this better represent Robert or the pre-order thread enthusiasts?

20130109.0 (resized).jpeg

Quoted from sataneatscheese:
No context needed... Weird Al had some words on this subject.

Damn , I didn’t know weird Al was into pinball . He obviously wrote that song specifically to troll DR / RM

Lean and agile production is neither lean nor agile...

Discuss!

880439D6-BE69-4EE6-B21B-F5FB8F5948B5.jpeg

Robert is a finance guy 100%
He has never run any business and has 0 manufacturing experience.
I am sure some educated consultant sold him on those terms

Quoted from frobozz:
I know you're being funny (and it is quite hilarious to put all those vaporous buzzwords all in one place like that!) but even if his manufacturing plan involved unicorns breathing in air pollution and pooping out pinball machines, you still have a large pile of large, heavy boxes you need to ship out using traditional non-unicorn-based methods. Which you couldn't do from that building.
Yeah, that lab space is a dandy model shop/proto buildup space. It's nice to have a roll-up door there. But that is no manufacturing space, in any way that would allow any quantities of games to be built and shipped.

Actually not entirely accurate— I believe the plan is to ship the games direct to customers ON the backs of unicorns. Some delays have come up in sourcing enough of them unfortunately but they are still looking

Quoted from Mbecker:
Actually not entirely accurate— I believe the plan is to ship the games direct to customers ON the backs of unicorns. Some delays have come up in sourcing enough of them unfortunately but they are still looking

I believe the unicorns will be doing delivery AND setup.

I think that's what they mean by "dynamic cross-functional staffing."

Quoted from Mr68:Our friend here, Dave Sanders survived Andrew Heighway very nicely and I've grown to respect him a great deal on many different levels.
If I were Stern or JJP or any established company, I would float an offer to Steve Bowden to come interview with me whenever the time is right.

I survived *barely* and I'm still crushed by the weight of it. This may not be the right thread for such a response - it's one I've had to think a lot about and work up the nerve for a long while, but if I seem soft-spoken on here it's a reflection of my own sense of fragility and how easily I can be downtrodden. People have wondered how I stuck it out with Andrew Heighway for so long, but my back was against the wall - I still have recordings of the kind of emotional blackmail he'd pull on me, wielding my own ASD as a weapon and making it out like I was putting everyone else's jobs in jeopardy if I tried to assert myself over what I was expected to get, even it was as little as a contract just to make everything official. The situation improved once he'd gone and some trust with the Pinball Brothers was able to develop, but I've never done anything with those recordings, I didn't think they'd ever help or not bring further stresses on me that I wouldn't be able to handle.

Quoted from pookycade:
RM: Quad Assembly will provide rapid and dynamic on-demand manufacturing abilities that current pinball manufacturers will have a hard time to match. We’ll be able to throttle and provide process fluctuations with flexible distribution. Following this concept allows for cross-functional staffing resulting in higher productivity and decreased manufacturing costs.
If I threw words into a blender I couldn’t come up with a more non-sensical and meaningless series of sentences than that.

This is what came to mind for me

94a (resized).jpg

Quoted from Mbecker:
Actually not entirely accurate— I believe the plan is to ship the games direct to customers ON the backs of unicorns. Some delays have come up in sourcing enough of them unfortunately but they are still looking

Ahem..... don’t you mean Octocorns (TM)?

Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:
I like your political incorrectness and your accurate and old school use of the word "retarded".
It's "mentally challenged" to the rest of us sheep.
QSS

To quote a comedian, it doesn't matter what word you use, once it is the 'mainstream' it will be co-opted into insults. Best to just let it go. In a few years 'mentally challenged' will be the insult that you can no longer say.

Re-reading these quotes. Robert's hubris is remarkable. The outcome that we have come to find, of such behavior, was quite predictable.

Hey guys. Just to be clear on my actions recently with deeproot. Lots of speculation so let me be clear:

I was fine with this company doing it's thing because it wasn't really hurting anyone, but when he took money (when specifically stating in the past he wouldn't) and seems to be failing to deliver - I felt that things needed to be brought more into the light. I understand that some of you have your hopes and that is also fine. It's just extra difficult for me to have faith in deeproot because I was at ground zero - the only other person that sounds to be right there with me is Ben Heck. I had high hopes for this company - I was expecting to be impressed and gitty with info and videos to show everyone. Sadly, this wasn't the case at all. I believe I may be going on Kaneda's show in the future to divulge more, but in the meantime I'm willing to help anyway I can - including with the floor plan some of you have interests in. For instance, the lab manufacturing area was where the video about the Pinpod took place. The recording took place about 20'' to the left of the image posted with the roll up door in the background. This wasn't where they planned to have their ''quad-manufacturing'' located. That was deeper into the facility. The (at that time) floor space for production was approximately 2-3,000 sq ft. with literally nothing but empty harbor freight workbenches (less than 10 of them). (something like this https://www.harborfreight.com/48-in-workbench-with-light-60723.html )

I'm willing to help any way I can, guys. I'll check back here every once in a while. I have been dodging this thread ever since my experience there. lol.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!

Help – Contact – About Pinside – Support Pinside – Top

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

5 years ago

Topic Stats

You

Find in topic

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

Topic index (key posts)

Reply

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!