(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 33,574 posts
  • 1,149 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 35 hours ago by stubborngamer
  • Topic is favorited by 309 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

pasted_image (resized).png
PXL_20240411_062859517 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
IMG_2583.gif
pasted_image (resized).png
deeprootcapital-401-2024.04.01.pdf (PDF preview)
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png

Topic index (key posts)

360 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 33,574 posts in this topic. You are on page 417 of 672.
#20801 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

I'm personally most looking forward to the RAZA tabletop campaign and the Magic the Gathering style deeproot card set (though I worry the Mueller card will be OP). The clips shown at Comic Con from the Yukon Yeti / Riverdale crossover limited run series coming to Amazon look promising, too.

I was super excited to hear about that while I was trying to collect the limited edition Funko Pop series of all my favorite Title TBD characters.

I'm still waiting for this month's deeproot Loot Crate to show up. I watched an unboxing video that showed me the surprising contents including a Merlin's Arcade lint roller, a Food Truck inspired backpack for small children, and a knock off Pez dispenser in the shape of JPops head! Opening that box and removing the contents fills the void in my soul for fifteen minutes. It's truly a bargain at $55 a month.

22
#20802 2 years ago

You know deeproot could have worked, even with Robert's constant of "we must hire John"

There needed to be a man in the middle. A George Gomez who gets things done. Robert is the money man, and he hires someone to make smart decisions. Someone who is given lemons and makes lemonade. Such a person would have said:

"OK. If you insist on involving this lazy hippie hack, here's the best recourse: Scrap RAZA. It sucks. Have one of the REAL designers you hired design Alice in Wonderland and Johnny-Boy gets to art direct it. It has the illusion of a JPOP game but actually gets done. Everyone wins and it's an original theme people actually would buy"

But no. Robert is an expert in all things! Including mining in Africa! He was more than happy to put on the Emperors New Clothes that was RAZA. And now he reaps what he sowed.

#20803 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Oh and John never created a legal agreement for the game, royalties or use of likeness.

Speaking of unauthorized use of your likeness, did you know that you're apparently giving out gambling advice for New Zealanders on JPop's old website?

http://pinballinventor.org/games/benheck/index.html

#20804 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Ice I am an egotist. I do think I'm better and smarter than most people. That I won't deny.
But I'm not "BHZA" kind of egotist. I would never in a million years make a game about myself. As for why John would... Well that theory is being saved for Story Time.

Even if you never want a "ben heck" game to ever happen, I think there's a good storyline in there. Geeky underdog that could never take on zombies inside an abandoned amusement park by himself. So he starts salvaging parts from the rides and builds himself an armory of weapons.
* Air rifle that shoots skeeballs
* Electromagnetic pulse gun
* Skill crane claw shoots out and snatches their brains from their skulls

Basically unlicensed MacGyver with zombie killing. You talk about how every game is about living a fantasy, who wouldn't want to be MacGyver?

#20805 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Even if you never want a "ben heck" game to ever happen, I think there's a good storyline in there. Geeky underdog that could never take on zombies inside an abandoned amusement park by himself. So he starts salvaging parts from the rides and builds himself an armory of weapons.
* Air rifle that shoots skeeballs
* Electromagnetic pulse gun
* Skill crane claw shoots out and snatches their brains from their skulls
Basically unlicensed MacGyver with zombie killing. You talk about how every game is about living a fantasy, who wouldn't want to be MacGyver?

Why not just make a licensed MacGyver game? Or better yet MacGruber

Also isn't that loosely Junkyard but zombies instead of dogs?

#20806 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You are in the wrong thread John with that kind of thinking!
And you won’t change any minds here. Like a bunch of vultures flying over a dying animal.
For the record, I don’t need another game and won’t lose an ounce of sleep if it never comes, but I agree with your positive sentiment and outlook. Keep it up!
Why some people can’t understand the concept that DR have an option to take the money or the game is beyond me?
I didn’t want the $$$, I rolled the dice on the game. Wtf, it’s been how many years now since this Raza debacle started?
I’m seeing it out to the end without the least bit of concern either way. I had nothing before this DR offer. It’s been a crazy drama filled journey. “It’s just pinball”

Ice,
The only mind you have to change is RM. Clearly, nobody can do that. Remember, we are not in charge of dr, he is. All this is all his work. I would say right or wrong, but the only "right" thing he has done was refund some old jpop customers, for whatever reason.. Some would argue, that was a wrong choice as well.

#20808 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Why not just make a licensed MacGyver game? Or better yet MacGruber
Also isn't that loosely Junkyard but zombies instead of dogs?

80's macgyver the remake is in legal issues.

#20809 2 years ago

That was your secret job first Ben. Then
Maybe that was Dennis’ extended job ?

Quoted from benheck:

You know deeproot could have worked, even with Robert's constant of "we must hire John"
There needed to be a man in the middle. A George Gomez who gets things done. Robert is the money man, and he hires someone to make smart decisions. Someone who is given lemons and makes lemonade. Such a person would have said:
"OK. If you insist on involving this lazy hippie hack, here's the best recourse: Scrap RAZA. It sucks. Have one of the REAL designers you hired design Alice in Wonderland and Johnny-Boy gets to art direct it. It has the illusion of a JPOP game but actually gets done. Everyone wins and it's an original theme people actually would buy"
But no. Robert is an expert in all things! Including mining in Africa! He was more than happy to put on the Emperors New Clothes that was RAZA. And now he reaps what he sowed.

#20810 2 years ago

MacHeckver

#20811 2 years ago

Since we've expanded this thread from just pinball to all deeproot products, can anyone tell me how to get through level four of The Who without Robert Daltry dying?

I have the Nintendo Switch version, btw (not sure if matters but mentioning in case the Xbox or playstation versions differ).

#20812 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

That's basically what I said - some older titles fetch big bucks but the majority do not. Genuine question: do you think the market is growing to the point most remaining early games/woodrails will become valuable, or will the high dollars stay with a few select titles? I haven't followed that market and thus any growth has been under my radar. Is there that much difference between a 17K woodrail and a $300 one? Is it just rarity or does gameplay have a significant factor in pricing?

The prewar, woodrail and later EM pinball markets mirror the modern game market to the extent that certain titles fetch extraordinarily high prices. Those high price tags are based on scarcity but most of those rare games are also great fun to play.

Generic titles are considerably less expensive. A desirable prewar, woodrail or 60s/70s EM in nice condition will usually sell for $500 - $1,500. The best examples will fetch closer to $2K+. Almost all games earlier than 1980 are somewhat scarce and the demand outpaces the supply.

My comment was meant to emphasize that many of these older games are really fun to play. Your comment seemed somewhat dismissive of older games in terms of the design sophistication quotient. The designs are often ingenious. The rule-sets "code" on the 1954 woodrails are super deep.

The $300 woodrail is indeed different than the $1,200 woodrail. It's not simply the rarity factor. Same with prewar and later EMs. There are hundreds of fantastic electromechanical and purely mechanical pinball machines. The markets have nuance, just like the markets for modern games.

There are games in the $1K, $2K, $3K, 4K and $5K+ ranges. It's not a binary circumstance in which all games are either $300 or $17K.

#20813 2 years ago

.

#20814 2 years ago
Quoted from ZNET:

My comment was meant to emphasize that many of these older games are really fun to play. Your comment seemed somewhat dismissive of older games in terms of the design sophistication quotient. The designs are often ingenious. The rule-sets "code" on the 1954 woodrails are super deep.

The comment was based on my play experience, and seeing plenty for sale quite cheap. If there are sleepers that play great but haven't yet hit crazy prices, I would be interested in checking them out. I played a bunch of woodrails at the Pacific Pinball Expo when it was a thing, and while some titles were pretty interesting, others just seemed dull with not much to do.

Right now, I have three woodrails: Triplets, Shindig and Hi Diver. The first two happened to come along with other games, but I specifically got the Hi Diver because it looked like it would be a good player with the upper flippers helping keep action across the entire playfield. The other two don't seem as interesting, although I've heard good things about Shindig. All three still need to be restored to playing condition. I want to have at least one in my collection, but not opposed to a few if they're fun enough.

#20815 2 years ago

It always blows people's minds when I tell them older pinballs are almost always worth less than new.

#20816 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

The comment was based on my play experience, and seeing plenty for sale quite cheap. If there are sleepers that play great but haven't yet hit crazy prices, I would be interested in checking them out. I played a bunch of woodrails at the Pacific Pinball Expo when it was a thing, and while some titles were pretty interesting, others just seemed dull with not much to do.
Right now, I have three woodrails: Triplets, Shindig and Hi Diver. The first two happened to come along with other games, but I specifically got the Hi Diver because it looked like it would be a good player with the upper flippers helping keep action across the entire playfield. The other two don't seem as interesting, although I've heard good things about Shindig. All three still need to be restored to playing condition. I want to have at least one in my collection, but not opposed to a few if they're fun enough.

Spending time on some of the woodrail A-listers (well-restored examples), like 1953 Gottlieb Grand Slam and 1952 Gottlieb Queen of Hearts can often convince hard-core skeptics that these old games are immensely entertaining and have long-term appeal. Feel free to message me for specific advice about titles.

Back to deeproot. . .

#20817 2 years ago

robert using his noggin

homer.gifhomer.gif
#20818 2 years ago
Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

robert using his noggin[quoted image]

Robert answering questions at the investor meeting

thinking.gifthinking.gif

#20819 2 years ago

Exactly! Best comment in weeks.

Tomorrow is the last working day of the month.
Monday is August 2nd.
And...casual Friday at Deeproot means they might have a day off.
Didnt even get a "2 weeks" Andrew Highway response.
Hey Robert, rents due Monday too!

#20820 2 years ago
Quoted from ZNET:

Spending time on some of the woodrail A-listers (well-restored examples), like 1953 Gottlieb Grand Slam and 1952 Gottlieb Queen of Hearts can often convince hard-core skeptics that these old games are immensely entertaining and have long-term appeal. Feel free to message me for specific advice about titles.
Back to deeproot. . .

Why PM, it' not like there's anything to talk about WRT deeproot these days, at least not til the next parking lot update...

What's your opinion on those three I mentioned? I'll definitely keep an eye out for those you just did mention here, although I'm guessing they're hard to find outside of private collections these days.

#20821 2 years ago

Maybe Deeproot is getting booted from the building on August 1st :}

#20822 2 years ago

that would definitely put a dent in the woodrail discussion haha

#20823 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

What's so hard to follow about a bustling amusement park at an old nuclear reactor site that was built on ancient Native American burial grounds being the crash site of alien invaders who use xenon gas to raise an army of the dead while a different alien warrior princess and an alien human cyborg team up with the player to help save the earth? Also Dracula

I know I'm in the minority, but I don't hate the theme. I think it's campy and fun. There were many-many other reasons I didn't order. Theme just wasn't one of those.

#20824 2 years ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

I know I'm in the minority, but I don't hate the theme. I think it's campy and fun. There were many-many other reasons I didn't order. Theme just wasn't one of those.

There is just too much going on. You're battling aliens, while going on carnival rides, while also killing zombies...what is the player supposed to focus on?

Make an alien invasion game. Make a zombie game. Make an amusement park game. Just don't mash all three into one game...

I don't have an issue with the campy tone. It's the one redeeming part. But there is no clear vision in the design overall.

#20825 2 years ago

Just make a game period.

Zero out the door.

All moot discussion anyway. Pretty much looks like It's done.

#20826 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Maybe Deeproot is getting booted from the building on August 1st :}

Could be a Possibility.

#20827 2 years ago

Why does everyone want DR to fail?
All of these wasted talents like Barry, Denis or Chris.
Even if their games have dumb names like "Food Truck" or "TBD", we all know that there is enormous potential here.

I really hope, some of their work will see the light some day.

#20828 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Maybe Deeproot is getting booted from the building on August 1st :}

Quoted from NoQuarters:

...Zero out the door...

Well, if they are moving/booted, then the proto would be leaving. So I guess we could consider it 'one out the door'.

#20829 2 years ago
Quoted from master_of_chaos:

Why does everyone want DR to fail?
All of these wasted talents like Barry, Denis or Chris.
Even if their games have dumb names like "Food Truck" or "TBD", we all know that there is enormous potential here.
I really hope, some of their work will see the light some day.

I don’t want them to fail necessarily. It’s just hard to see them not fail for a multitude of reasons.

What is annoying is this saps investment capital that could have been well spent on people and companies that are actually competent

10
#20830 2 years ago

Anyone else remember when John was building stuff in his basement?

Plenty of room. Nice setup. Lighting wasn't great. Still. Would have been enough until he had a game ready to go.

But no. He has to get an office to look official. A third of it was just junk storage. Then he gets the adjoining unit. Stores more junk. Guess the buyers were paying for him not to rent storage units? Where did all the stuff come from?

Then deep root. Giant building. Why? You don't need that much room until you're building something. You're just throwing money away on emptiness. Rent on that place alone would fund all 122 games.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

#20831 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Why PM, it' not like there's anything to talk about WRT deeproot these days, at least not til the next parking lot update...
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"6dbba285f3b17188a3ef409e166dab3eb37bfff0-1627595393-1800"};
//]]>

What's your opinion on those three I mentioned? I'll definitely keep an eye out for those you just did mention here, although I'm guessing they're hard to find outside of private collections these days.

A long time ago, Clay Harrell published his ratings of Gottlieb woodrails at the link below. Clay gives Shindig a C grade, Triplets a C+ and Hi Diver a B+. I rate Triplets a C- and Hi Diver a B and agree that Shindig is a C where C represents an average player.

The A-titles are appreciably better than what you currently have. They are games that a collector enjoys playing in a line-up for many years. I have been lucky to have owned a good variety of woodrails for over 3 decades and have never tired of the A-titles.

A-title woodrails are not exclusive to Gottlieb, although Gottlieb does dominate that pinball category. I rate Chicago Coin Thing, Williams Gusher and Williams Skyway as A-titles, for example. In fact, my Pinside profile includes a comprehensive article about CCM's enigmatic woodrail Thing, which features Roy Parker art and an extraordinary audio feature. Thing is a remarkable game.

Regrettably, many enthusiasts form a negative impression of woodrails and EMs when they play them at shows. Often, those examples have weak flippers and are improperly tuned. . .that's no fun. Properly functioning woodrails, correctly restored, and other EMs can be as fast and as challenging as any modern game.

The collectors in the RAZA preorder thread chasing an unusual and collectible game would be better served by acquiring a 1971 Bally Skyrocket. It's one of only two titles designed by Harry Williams for Bally (1971 Firecracker is the other, also great).

Skyrocket is a title which has withstood the test of time and is likely to escalate in value. Its cascading light show playfield feature is a legitimate innovation. And yes, like RAZA, the playfield glass rises in a convenient canopy.

Nic Schell of the Roanoke, VA pinball museum posted a great Skyrocket demo on YouTube. It's worth checking out.

You're right. Posts about EMs are more interesting than deeproot's silent updates. Williams Gusher's innovation was a disappearing pop bumper. Deeproot has invented the disappearing update.

http://www.pinrepair.com/gtb/

16
#20832 2 years ago
Quoted from master_of_chaos:

Why does everyone want DR to fail?

That's a simplification of a complex situation.

Jpop owes people games/money. RM hired him despite this & bragged that he would outdo every company making pinball. We've got someone who put members of our hobby through hell & a blowhard narcissist....we don't owe them good vibes for success. They've shown us who they are. The onus is on THEM to produce something and change their self-created reputation. It's really not about "wanting them to fail", they've already failed....we just want them to acknowledge their failure and go away. The pinball community doesn't need them...and aside from a handful of people, no one wants them.

#20833 2 years ago
22782CC5-58AB-4BB4-BD7F-3E10DCE4D623 (resized).jpeg22782CC5-58AB-4BB4-BD7F-3E10DCE4D623 (resized).jpeg
#20834 2 years ago
Quoted from ZNET:

Williams Gusher

"Gusher" 1958, had the disappearing pop bumper that Jpop stole for Cirqus Voltaire.

Six degrees of Deeproot.

#20835 2 years ago

Don't want to go OT from the woodrail discussions, but there were Amico comparisons a few pages back - they just put this out, looks like they're producing *something* (now how much sense does any of it make I'm too disconnected with gaming to know...)

#20836 2 years ago

If Robert had something to show he's show it. Wouldn't matter what it is. There's no reason he couldn't have acquired 122 units of SOME parts.

But...if my theory is true and it's been over since December, him showing anything to booster faith would very quickly become criminal fraud.

#20837 2 years ago

LEGAL SPECULATION WITHOUT A LICENSE

#20838 2 years ago

I don't need a license. I am a SOVEREIGN LAWYER CITIZEN!

#20839 2 years ago

Still on the Deeproot pinball website right now:

We plan to ramp up our lines in a slow, controlled manner using phases with a goal to finish and ship all RAZA orders in less than four months. The first three phases will only be games meeting UL certification for North America/Canada. As CE and other international certifications will still be ongoing, we will not ship international orders until the fourth phase at the earliest.

Phase 1: Approximately six weeks as the first games reach customers, with us alternating between Arcade and Xtra editions (backlit side panels being the primary delays for Xtra editions).
Phase 2: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 30.
Phase 3: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 40.
Phase 4: The balance of domestic orders and all International orders.

#20840 2 years ago
Quoted from PhilGreg:

Don't want to go OT from the woodrail discussions, but there were Amico comparisons a few pages back - they just put this out, looks like they're producing *something* (now how much sense does any of it make I'm too disconnected with gaming to know...)

I just see shrink wrapped boxes. Show me carts & a working system and maybe we’ve got something.

Also on the new-retro front, Playdate went up for sale today and sold their 20,000 unit 2021 allotment in about 30 min. They’ve sent preview units to gaming media…totally transparent. Excited for this goofy little yellow system!

#20841 2 years ago

That production schedule makes NO SENSE.

First of all it adds up to WAY more than 122 units. Are the extra units for the all the people "waiting in the wings?"

Also, and I know I've said this before, 40 games/week is pretty aggressive. That's faster than Spooky and hiring at $13/hour in a major city?.... (insert Spider-Man 2 laugh here)

What's the plan? Staff up to 30 people then let them all go after two months if another game isn't ready?

I mean the Great Norway Sandwich guy is right, contracting makes sense. Even though it doesn't, ahem DP. But who's gonna do it?

#20842 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I just see shrink wrapped boxes. Show me carts & a working system and maybe we’ve got something.
Also on the new-retro front, Playdate went up for sale today and sold their 20,000 unit 2021 allotment in about 30 min. They’ve sent preview units to gaming media…totally transparent. Excited for this goofy little yellow system!

I was able to snag one in the first batch.

I’m still waiting for them to price the pen stand. I’d like one if it isn’t over $100, but I’m afraid it will be.

#20843 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Still on the Deeproot pinball website right now:
We plan to ramp up our lines in a slow, controlled manner using phases with a goal to finish and ship all RAZA orders in less than four months. The first three phases will only be games meeting UL certification for North America/Canada. As CE and other international certifications will still be ongoing, we will not ship international orders until the fourth phase at the earliest.
Phase 1: Approximately six weeks as the first games reach customers, with us alternating between Arcade and Xtra editions (backlit side panels being the primary delays for Xtra editions).
Phase 2: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 30.
Phase 3: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 40.
Phase 4: The balance of domestic orders and all International orders.

I think I have a slightly better plan:

Step 1: First build 1, as in build one single working non prototype game and deliver it.

Step 2: Next build 2, as in build 2 working games and deliver them.

Step 3: Figure out how you build the rest of them with an experienced project manager once you’ve determine the first 3 you have built actually function as intended.

Pinball IS EASY. Good project management is HARD. I’m not convinced from this “plan” they get that yet.

#20844 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

We plan to ramp up our lines in a slow

Maybe they are just trying to perfect the slow part?

#20845 2 years ago

First you need lines...and ramps...

#20846 2 years ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

Maybe they are just trying to perfect the slow part?

That was accomplished by hiring JPOP!

#20847 2 years ago

Looking at their proposed schedule and the resultant schedule with no games made, it’s hard not to think Jpop is still running things there at his snails pace

#20848 2 years ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

Maybe they are just trying to perfect the slow part?

I LOLd, thanks!

#20849 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I was able to snag one in the first batch.
I’m still waiting for them to price the pen stand. I’d like one if it isn’t over $100, but I’m afraid it will be.

Same, I ordered one within the first few minutes. I got the magnetic purple case too

I love purple & Jpop still can’t win me over! Lol

#20850 2 years ago

Wow that Playdate is rockin' some nice specs!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 1.29
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 33,574 posts in this topic. You are on page 417 of 672.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/417 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.