(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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There are 33,429 posts in this topic. You are on page 649 of 669.
#32401 1 year ago
Quoted from jamesmc:

Seems like a decently written motion. What's appalling to me is that the people he stole from are the ones in reality paying his attorney to write the motion. It seems like a hail mary type of motion, but it's probably serving its purpose by extending time.

Is the motion too late? That is, should it have been filed following the submission of the settlement motion and prior to its granting by the judge?

#32402 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

I can finally make Bible Adventures!

Swear on it??

#32403 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Is the motion too late? That is, should it have been filed following the submission of the settlement motion and prior to its granting by the judge?

I have no idea the rules or procedures within the SEC. Seems late on purpose to me. I also don't understand how he hasn't been indicted yet.

#32404 1 year ago
Quoted from jamesmc:

I have no idea the rules or procedures within the SEC. Seems late on purpose to me. I also don't understand how he hasn't been indicted yet.

Maybe soon. I believe they've now settled with every other defendant and relief defendant, human and corporate. So the big cheese stands alone.

16
#32405 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

I can finally make Bible Adventures!

You can also now practice law without a license.

18
#32406 1 year ago

For amusement only games has now officially built and shipped more games than deeproot... as a one man show... with a separate full time job... working out of a rented closet.

#32407 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

You can also now practice law without a license.

Of all the weird Mueller lines that has to be the most bizarre.

How is posting on a pinball forum "practicing law?"

#32408 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Of all the weird Mueller lines that has to be the most bizarre.
How is posting on a pinball forum "practicing law?"

What Blobert "considers" something and what is actual seem to be far apart. The term delusional sociopath comes to mind

I could sue Ben for financial harm even though he has never caused me any. Doesn't mean I'm gonna win.

#32409 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

For amusement only games has now officially built and shipped more games than deeproot... as a one man show... with a separate full time job... working out of a rented closet.

But, did he have more than $60,000,000 to put toward this effort? A one man band with $90,000,000 in venture capital can make things happen faster than a couple of dr teams dispersed around the country with only a $60,000,000 budget, funded by retireees. /sarcasm

Blobert is a loser in every sense..

#32410 1 year ago

SEC and trustee succinctly spank Robert with respect to his objection. Mentioned a couple times is that Robert had his chance to object (to the associated bankruptcy settlement) and did not in time, answering my question about whether his motion was too late (answer: kinda - the assertion by this response is that he has no standing to object in the SEC case; he would have in the bankruptcy one, but didn't in time).

SEC-83-2023.01.20.pdfSEC-83-2023.01.20.pdf
#32411 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

SEC and trustee succinctly spank Robert with respect to his objection. Mentioned a couple times is that Robert had his chance to object (to the associated bankruptcy settlement) and did not in time, answering my question about whether his motion was too late (answer: kinda - the assertion by this response is that he has no standing to object in the SEC case; he would have in the bankruptcy one, but didn't in time).
[quoted image]

Man, "no cognizable basis" would have been a great tagline for the deeproot entities, together or separately.

 (resized).png (resized).png
#32412 1 year ago

I saw "No Cognizable Basis" open for "Criminal Prosecution" in 1985. Awesome show!

#32413 1 year ago

Anyone heard anything about when their Raza’s are shipping?

The owners thread is kind of dead.

#32414 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

Anyone heard anything about when their Raza’s are shipping?
The owners thread is kind of dead.

Two weeks

#32415 1 year ago

Still working out the PinBar bugs. Innovation, soon!

#32416 1 year ago

Waiting on the conclusion of UL testing...95% passed!

#32417 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

Anyone heard anything about when their Raza’s are shipping?
The owners thread is kind of dead.

Still waiting on those Pinbars to be powder coated…

#32418 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Still working out the PinBar bugs. Innovation, soon!

Beat me to it.

#32419 1 year ago

Did you get a notification from them directly on this?

I cannot seem to get in touch with Robert. I was thinking of selling my Predator pre order to free up funds.

#32421 1 year ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Waiting on the conclusion of UL testing...95% passed!

Are they using MET or ETL as their compliance/certification lab?

11
#32422 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

You can also now practice law without a license.

Better Call Heck

#32423 1 year ago

I'd be curious if this was part of the 60 million, or is this beyond (which would make the total 70 million).

#32424 1 year ago

Quoted for posterity

Investors out $10M after unlawful sales by Tucson adviser
David Wichner Jan 20, 2023 Updated Jan 25, 2023

Investors are out more than $10 million and a Tucson investment advisor has been ordered to pay nearly $450,000 in restitution and penalties for selling unregistered securities linked to alleged Ponzi schemes.

And that’s just the most recent enforcement action state regulators have taken against scams that have included investments in purported cannabis farms and cryptocurrency schemes.

The Arizona Corporation Commission on Jan. 10 unanimously ordered Tucson investment adviser representative Pamela Hopman and her company, PGH Advisors LLC, to pay restitution of $410,790 and a $35,000 administrative penalty for dishonest and unethical conduct in selling unregistered securities.

The commission also revoked Hopman’s investment adviser representative license and the investment adviser license of her company.

An investigation by the commission’s Securities Division found that Hopman and PGH Advisors sold at least $1.5 million worth of securities from a company called Deeproot and its affiliates to her advisory clients who believed they were buying “life settlement products” — investments backed by life-insurance policies.

The Securities and Exchange Commission in a civil lawsuit filed in August 2021 alleged that Texas-based Deeproot Funds and its owner Robert J. Mueller defrauded two investment funds and nearly 300 people who invested roughly $58 million, calling the company a Ponzi scheme. Deeproot Funds filed for bankruptcy in December 2021.

The commission also found that Hopman, PGH Advisors and another PGH investment adviser representative sold at least $10 million worth of unsecured and unregistered promissory notes, a type of loan purportedly backing construction projects, from Kansas-based Premier Global Corp.

Securities regulators in Kansas and Oklahoma have filed civil lawsuits alleging Premier Global and its principals operated a Ponzi scheme that raised more than $500 million from more than 500 investors in 19 states, including Arizona.

The commission’s Securities Division found that in most cases, Hopman and PGH Advisors did not inform the investors that she or her affiliates were receiving commissions for selling the unregistered investments, creating a material conflict of interest.

In November, the Corporation Commission sanctioned the other PGH investment adviser representative, MaRico Tippett of Tucson, with a 30-day license suspension for failing to disclose a material conflict of interest to his clients. In a consent order, Tippett agreed to pay $28,231 in restitution and a $2,500 administrative penalty.

Six-digit losses
During the commission’s Jan. 10 open meeting, two investors who lost money to Hopman and PGH said the panel’s sanctions were too light.

The approved consent order bars Hopman from reapplying for state licenses or controlling an investment firm until all her restitution and penalties are paid.

But investor Barbara Eisele urged the commission to bar her from holding any kind of investment-related license in the future.

“She made the representation this investment was the best way to meet our goal of protecting our principal investment and that it was safer than stocks,” Eisele said. “I believe it is the responsibility of the Corporation Commission to prevent harm to others.”

PGH investor Gary Hirsch said he and his wife lost $140,000 to investments sold by Hopman and called the ordered restitution “woefully inadequate” given the millions of dollars investors have lost.

Hirsch, 72, said he hoped to retire this year.

“But due to Ms. Hopman’s handling of our money, we’ve now lost $140,000 and will probably have to work another five years,” he said.

Mark Dinell, director of the ACC’s Securities Division, said he sympathized with the investors, but the money paid to Deeproot and Premier Global is tied up in the pending federal and state lawsuits.

State law doesn’t allow the ACC to permanently bar an investment adviser from licensure, Dinell said, but he added that if Hopman tried to apply for a license in the future, “that would be a very hard hill for her to climb.”

An attorney representing Hopman painted her as a victim of the investment companies whose products she sold and said Hopman sold her house to make a $200,000 payment toward the restitution and penalties.

“She and her family invested more than $300,000 in these entities and her money’s gone, too,” attorney Alan Baskin told the commission. “This is not something Ms. Hopman feels good or happy or joyful about, by any stretch of the imagination.”

Baskin did not respond to a request for further comment.

Dinell said in an interview he could not say how exactly how many investors lost money to the investments sold by Hopman because that was not made part of the public record, but the record shows at least 10 sales of Deeproot products.

The restitution money will go into an account managed by the Attorney General’s Office, which will distribute it to affected investors, he said.

Dinell said he was unsure of the prospects for further recovery from the Deeproot and Premier Global cases, but typically in those cases, an appointed receiver contacts affected investors.

Cannabis to crypto
In the past few years, the state Securities Division has won sanctions against sellers of an array of unregistered securities in Arizona:

In December, the Commission ordered Richard J. Daratony of Tucson to pay a $20,000 administrative penalty for committing securities fraud by selling unregistered investment contracts in a purported cannabis farm in California through an online ad on Craigslist.

In October, the Corporation Commission ordered hedge fund manager Christopher S. Walkup of Scottsdale and his affiliated company Wealthcorp, LLC to pay $1.2 million in restitution and $296,000 in administrative penalties for defrauding investors through the sale of penny-stock shares in a pharmaceutical company and a company that provides websites and marketing to cannabis companies. Walkup has appealed the commission’s decision to Maricopa Superior Court.

In September, the commission ordered Jonathan Sifuentes Saucedo of Mexico, who was not registered to sell securities in Arizona, to pay $70,000 in restitution and a $15,000 administrative penalty for defrauding investors with a cryptocurrency investment program he pitched through churches and Spanish-language radio ads.

In September 2021, Kansas-based AE Wealth Management LLC agreed to pay more than $1.1 million in restitution to more than 200 Tucson-area clients to settle state charges involving the sale of military pension benefits as investments. The commission found that the company misled investors by failing to disclose the company’s ties to Smith & Cox LLC, a Tucson firm that was subject to a state enforcement action.

In October 2020, the commission ordered Smith & Cox and its principals to pay restitution of about $2.6 million and a $105,000 fine, for its sale of so-called “income-stream” investments in the pensions of military members. The company lost an appeal of the penalties in December 2021.

Protecting your money
Dinell, who has been with the Corporation Commission for more than 20 years and became Securities Division director in 2019, said his division files about 20 to 30 enforcement actions annually.

In 2022, the division filed 20 actions and the commission entered 30 decisions on prior cases, he said. Besides investment advisers and adviser representatives, the agency registers and regulates securities dealers and salespeople in the state.

Where fraud may rise to the criminal level, the Securities Division refers cases to the Attorney General or the appropriate county attorney, Dinell said.

According to the Securities Division, common investment scams in Arizona include: affinity fraud, where scammers gain trust through members of a group, like a church congregation; telephone boiler-room pitches; foreign-currency exchange schemes; government imposters; oil and gas scams; Ponzi or pyramid schemes; precious-metal frauds; so-called “prime-bank” schemes involving investments in international bank notes; real estate scams; and life-settlement or viatical schemes.

With a plethora of new frauds fueled by online pitches, the general rule of thumb to avoid investments you don’t understand holds true, Dinell said.

Dealing with an adviser or broker you trust is important, but Hopman’s case shows that doesn’t always guarantee safety, he said.

“You have to get the documents and you have to read them, and I know that’s a pain but if you read them and ask the person selling you questions, that could or should bring up red flags,” Dinell said, noting that the Deeproot documents described its investments as “illiquid” — difficult to sell.

The Corporation Commission hosts a “fraud prevention center” page on its website at tucne.ws/azfraud, featuring tips on how to spot common fraudulent investment schemes.

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission offers tips to avoid investment fraud and a database of licensed investment professionals, including details on licenses, professional experience and enforcement actions, at investor.

#32425 1 year ago

There's still people who insist it wasn't a Ponzi because he always "meant to build pinball machines."

Monthly reminder: It was always a Ponzi.

#32426 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There's still people who insist it wasn't a Ponzi because he always "meant to build pinball machines."
Monthly reminder: It was always a Ponzi.

If you and Sean 'The Storm' Grant do a collaboration on a song called "It Was Always A Ponzi" I'll download it.

#32427 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There's still people who insist it wasn't a Ponzi because he always "meant to build pinball machines."
Monthly reminder: It was always a Ponzi.

Charles Ponzi initially thought he had figured out a system to make money selling back postage stamps bought in foreign markets. He didn’t figure out he couldn’t till later. Eventually he just rolled with it knowing life was short…

#32428 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

You can also now practice law without a license.

Call 1 800 60Million

18
#32429 1 year ago

Charles Ponzi certainly made a name for himself. But why do people overlook the Newman - Kramer bottle deposit scheme of 1996.
Now that was a caper.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#32430 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Charles Ponzi certainly made a name for himself. But why do people overlook the Newman - Kramer bottle deposit scheme of 1996.
Now that was a caper.
[quoted image]

Oh, the humanity!!!

#32431 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I'd be curious if this was part of the 60 million, or is this beyond (which would make the total 70 million).

It reads as though about $500K was Deeproot and the remainder was some other separate scam.
So not really part of Deeproot, but I don't think would add the remainder to Deeproot as it's a whole other thing.
Too many scams out there to keep track of these days.

OOPs - OG below is correct. $1,500K not $500K.

#32432 1 year ago
Quoted from RCA1:It reads as though about $500K was Deeproot and the remainder was some other separate scam.
So not really part of Deeproot, but I don't think would add the remainder to Deeproot as it's a whole other thing.
Too many scams out there to keep track of these days.

Actually, it says "An investigation by the commission’s Securities Division found that Hopman and PGH Advisors sold at least $1.5 million worth of securities from a company called Deeproot and its affiliates"

#32433 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Charles Ponzi certainly made a name for himself. But why do people overlook the Newman - Kramer bottle deposit scheme of 1996.
Now that was a caper.
[quoted image]

Unfortunately for them, the fine for redeeming out of state cans in Michigan is $10,000. That's 100,000 cans to break even.

And those mail trucks are not good on gas.

#32434 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Charles Ponzi certainly made a name for himself. But why do people overlook the Newman - Kramer bottle deposit scheme of 1996.
Now that was a caper.
[quoted image]

Funny aside about that episode. The actress who played the farmer's daughter called him "Norman" at the end. She didn't know the show and either misread or misremembered the script. However, she did it so well they kept that take.

#32435 1 year ago

Boring update with the trustee submitting a joint motion for a settlement to get back $180k from some investors who apparently received more money from deeproot than they should have.

deeprootcapital-236-2023.01.30.pdfdeeprootcapital-236-2023.01.30.pdf

Really need some criminal charges or an SEC trial to get things going again.

#32436 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Boring update with the trustee submitting a joint motion for a settlement to get back $180k from some investors who apparently received more money from deeproot than they should have.
[quoted image]
Really need some criminal charges or an SEC trial to get things going again.

Given it is been classified a Ponzi scheme, they will try a claw back any money paid to an investor that exceeds their original investment. I'm sure they are not happy, but compared to all of the people who lost their entire investment, they really should not complain about giving up profits.

#32437 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

Given it is been classified a Ponzi scheme, they will try a claw back any money paid to an investor that exceeds their original investment. I'm sure they are not happy, but compared to all of the people who lost their entire investment, they really should not complain about giving up profits.

Totally. I'd expect these people didn't even know anything shiesty was going on.

#32438 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

Given it is been classified a Ponzi scheme, they will try a claw back any money paid to an investor that exceeds their original investment. I'm sure they are not happy, but compared to all of the people who lost their entire investment, they really should not complain about giving up profits.

“Claw back” has such a nice ring to it.

I’ve long wondered if people who accepted “refund checks” or sponsorship money or any other kind of deep root handouts may end up getting a knock on the door, or if this is just for people who invested in the Ponzi scheme not people who only dealt with the pinball arm of the scam.

Will they try to claw back the free burritos from the tex mex buffet?!

#32439 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

“Claw back” has such a nice ring to it.
I’ve long wondered if people who accepted “refund checks” or sponsorship money or any other kind of deep root handouts may end up getting a knock on the door, or if this is just for people who invested in the Ponzi scheme not people who only dealt with the pinball arm of the scam.
Will they try to claw back the free burritos from the tex mex buffet?!

As I recall from reading through lots of these legal docs, they're only able to target the past few years. I think much of the deeproot sponsoring fell outside that window.

#32440 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

As I recall from reading through lots of these legal docs, they're only able to target the past few years. I think much of the deeproot sponsoring fell outside that window.

What about folks who took “refund” checks?

Let’s say you got your $10,000 Jpop scam check from deep root. That money came from the little old ladies.

#32441 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What about folks who took “refund” checks?
Let’s say you got your $10,000 Jpop scam check from deep root. That money came from the little old ladies.

Good question. The latest of those came in the later days. Wouldn't be shocked if those folks received a certified letter.

#32442 1 year ago

Supposedly Robert is no longer employed at Boeing. Apparently he’s no longer reachable on their internal messaging system. Hard to verify though.

#32443 1 year ago

decided to do some googling.. found this youtube video

comments are interesting:
"I worked for deeproot pinball for about 6mo, until Robert went on another honeymoon instead of paying his employees. I literally went to my boss the first week I worked there and asked if this was some kind of ponzi scheme. You just can't have that many employees and a huge facility with NO products going out the door for that long. I got out the first time they were late on my pay but I had freinds that stuck it out and got screwed."

"For the record, my father was sold into this scheme by a supposed legitimate investment firm. This piece of $hit literally stole my fathers entire retirement. My dad is completely devastated financially. He was not a wealthy man he climbed phone poles his entire career. Disgusting"

#32444 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What about folks who took “refund” checks?
Let’s say you got your $10,000 Jpop scam check from deep root. That money came from the little old ladies.

again.. claw back has limitations and in the bankruptcy case its more about fraudulent transfers (aka trying to hide or shift assets) than it is about customers who were funded through unsavory schemes.

#32445 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

again.. claw back has limitations and in the bankruptcy case its more about fraudulent transfers (aka trying to hide or shift assets) than it is about customers who were funded through unsavory schemes.

Except there is no indication that the clawback settlement for which the SEC just submitted a joint motion was meant to hide or shift assets rather than to deliver a return to a customer of deeproot funds (presumably to keep the ponzi going). So other than dollar value, why would it receive attention where the pinball refunds would not.

#32446 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

decided to do some googling.. found this youtube video
comments are interesting:
"I worked for deeproot pinball for about 6mo, until Robert went on another honeymoon instead of paying his employees. I literally went to my boss the first week I worked there and asked if this was some kind of ponzi scheme. You just can't have that many employees and a huge facility with NO products going out the door for that long. I got out the first time they were late on my pay but I had freinds that stuck it out and got screwed."
"For the record, my father was sold into this scheme by a supposed legitimate investment firm. This piece of $hit literally stole my fathers entire retirement. My dad is completely devastated financially. He was not a wealthy man he climbed phone poles his entire career. Disgusting"

If you ever work for a company that can't pay you or asks you to hold a payroll check before cashing - look for a new job, no matter how good that job seems

#32447 1 year ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

If you ever work for a company that can't pay you or asks you to hold a payroll check before cashing - look for a new job, no matter how good that job seems

This should be common sense but some people still need to hear it. A company should do everything in their power to keep the payroll working above everything else. When that stutters - it is always a sign of much larger problems.

A slightly related story but not really - I had an old accounting professor who worked in the industry decades ago when computers were very new to businesses. Think of a huge set of refrigerator sized boxes that take up a room. Well everyone had to share time on the computer: Engineers, designers, accountants, etc. and there were often disagreements as to whose time it was to use the computer, even with set schedules. Whenever it was time for the payroll dept. to use the computer, everybody moved aside and let them use the computer whenever they had the need

#32448 1 year ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

If you ever work for a company that can't pay you or asks you to hold a payroll check before cashing - look for a new job, no matter how good that job seems

No kidding! I have hired technicians that have told me stories about employers bouncing checks and I have absolutely no understanding why ANYONE would put up with that. Once as a mistake or error, yeah ok, maybe. Anything more? Adios amigo.

#32449 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

No kidding! I have hired technicians that have told me stories about employers bouncing checks and I have absolutely no understanding why ANYONE would put up with that. Once as a mistake or error, yeah ok, maybe. Anything more? Adios amigo.

Unless you have a new job, there are times when a late paycheck is better than no paycheck.

-1
#32450 1 year ago
Quoted from Steve_in_Escalon:

Unless you have a new job, there are times when a late paycheck is better than no paycheck.

If your employer can’t keep payroll straight it’s time to go.

Worked a temp job for Manpower once. They sent group wide email one week that said they didn’t get our hours submitted to corporate and we would not be getting paid on time. I called the office manager and explained their error was not my problem and when I arrived at the office I expected my paycheck would be ready or we would be having a discussion about their priorities going forward. I am a 6’6” 210 lb former Marine. When I arrived at the office I went to the manager’s office and told the person the manager was meeting with to give us a few moments. I closed the door and the blinds. I reiterated my stated position and left with my check. Never happened again.

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