Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from blueberryjohnson:First encouraging thing I've read regarding Pinball Adventures' prospects for success.
And don't forget, the management team for Trailer Park Boys included threats of legal action for John to stay away.
(RareHero got me, damn it)
Quoted from Rarehero:Wait for it…..
BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAH!!!
Omg, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read on Pinside since you thought you could threaten Trailer Park Boys into giving you a license that you were incapable of building.
What the heck are they putting in that Canadian beer?
Quoted from Mr68:And don't forget, the management team for Trailer Park Boys included threats of legal action for John to stay away.
(RareHero got me, damn it)
To GWJ, that's just playing hard to get.
If only those pesky lawyers hadn't gotten in the way and GWJ had a chance to talk to the Boys....he would be packing his suitcase right now and air freighting 10 games to TPF next weekend. Instead the only suitcase he has to worry about is the suitcase of Bud that will satiate his wife for the next 1-2 days.
Quoted from Drewscruis:What the heck are they putting in that Canadian beer?
Fermented gray ham.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Deeproot Pinball was interested in me moving to Texas & working there, but I was not going before I got my pension. Same with Andrew Heighway
Do you still not understand that both of those companies were GIANT SCAMS?
That's like saying you were offered an executive position at Worldcom or Enron.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Pinball Adventures has changed from we are open to selling or helping out, to do not contact us in the future.
Hmmmmm....Perhaps I've been a bit rough on this MacBain guy.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:You guys are a good laugh. Deeproot Pinball was interested in me moving to Texas & working there, but I was not going before I got my pension. Same with Andrew Heighway, that I provided some guidance which was likely not used towards printing & production. I have had production agreements with Gottlieb LLC & Planetary Pinball on glass production. Still have past dealings with Dave Fix towards production of glass in the past. Rick & I were looking at old playfields for production but that fell through, & who knows might still be possible in the future. Very few people have the balls to make new playfields. But carry on about I do not deal with industry people. Some groups do not want to be exposed that I deal with around the world, but you guys can believe the contrary to that. I will say that lately Pinball Adventures has changed from we are open to selling or helping out, to do not contact us in the future. No problem with that, & they are on their own for production stuff. Not what I would do but there you go, that rail system is shit along with the Deeproot pinball playfield lift system.
I took your post at face value and concluded... John, you ARE the Godfather of the pinball business.
Did Deeproot make you an offer you couldn't refuse?
Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:Is GWJ related to SLAMtilt...are they the same person/genius maybe?
I've been trying to decide which one is more delusional....its tough.
They are both highly entertaining for all the wrong reasons. I think John is probably a cool guy who is fun to hang out with in real life though. I feel like I'd be annoyed by Slam the very first second I met him...
Quoted from greatwichjohn:You guys are a good laugh. Deeproot Pinball was interested in me moving to Texas & working there, but I was not going before I got my pension. Same with Andrew Heighway, that I provided some guidance which was likely not used towards printing & production. I have had production agreements with Gottlieb LLC & Planetary Pinball on glass production. Still have past dealings with Dave Fix towards production of glass in the past. Rick & I were looking at old playfields for production but that fell through, & who knows might still be possible in the future. Very few people have the balls to make new playfields. But carry on about I do not deal with industry people. Some groups do not want to be exposed that I deal with around the world, but you guys can believe the contrary to that. I will say that lately Pinball Adventures has changed from we are open to selling or helping out, to do not contact us in the future. No problem with that, & they are on their own for production stuff. Not what I would do but there you go, that rail system is shit along with the Deeproot pinball playfield lift system.
Dude you had a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to make yourself relevant again in this hobby and you BLEW IT. Blew it on beer, scratch tabs and expired meat.
You sound like a 48 year old dude who's never moved past being a high school quarterback.
Quoted from benheck:Dude you had a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to make yourself relevant again in this hobby and you BLEW IT. Blew it on beer, scratch tabs and expired meat.
You sound like a 48 year old dude who's never moved past being a high school quarterback.
If coach would have just put me in I would have won a TWIPY. I could throw a playfield over them mountains!
Quoted from benheck:Dude you had a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to make yourself relevant again in this hobby and you BLEW IT. Blew it on beer, scratch tabs and expired meat.
You sound like a 48 year old dude who's never moved past being a high school quarterback.
Screenshot_20230317_074010_Google (resized).jpgQuoted from Inside:In a way I support Chris Turner in his endeavor. He’s worked for Deeproot for many years and has probably been subjected to endless micromanagement and certain CEOs boasting of their skill sets.
CT sounds exactly like Robert. Don’t forget, CT wrote the software to manage retiree investments and therefore likely had insider information about the life insurance policies he later bid on. To assign him hero status finally freed from Robert’s micromanagement is as foolish as how everyone assigned Robert hero status for stepping in to manage unmanageable JPOP.
Do you guys remember that? JPOPs “only” sin was ambition and poor business sense, not that he committed fraud and promised games (and collected money) well after he knew he couldn’t execute. Robert is blamed for micromanaging but JPOP had no management at all. The truth is all these guys don’t know what the fuck they’re doing and for some reason people keep buying the same bullshit dressed up in new clothes.
Quoted from Richthofen:CT wrote the software to manage retiree investments and therefore likely had insider information about the life insurance policies he later bid on
You’re attributing a lot of knowledge to a guy who wrote some software. I think it’s more likely he made a Google doc for Deeproot and management was so blown away by his l33t skilz they gave him additional projects.
It’s a big jump from software vendor to shady insider screwing the bankruptcy trustee. I’ll believe that when I see good evidence to support it.
Quoted from Richthofen:The truth is all these guys don’t know what the fuck they’re doing and for some reason people keep buying the same bullshit dressed up in new clothes.
Bingo. People on Pinside have to stop giving these new companies the benefit of the doubt and simping for them. It has to stop! This hobby has been scammed too many times,
CT is shady as hell. And this new company has all those life insurance premiums hanging over it, just like Robert's did. This company's life depends on people dying.
Stop giving these companies free rides and Pinside needs to stop defending them by default.
Quoted from benheck:Bingo. People on Pinside have to stop giving these new companies the benefit of the doubt and simping for them. It has to stop! This hobby has been scammed too many times,
Anytime a new build fantasy appears on the horizon, FOMO kicks in and all the usual suspects suddenly get memory loss. As one who is not able to be so financially irresponsible it can be quite entertaining to see…
Quoted from Richthofen:Don’t forget, CT wrote the software to manage retiree investments and therefore likely had insider information about the life insurance policies he later bid on.
Likely? How could he not know?
If this "insider information" was a breach of some laws, the Trustee and courts would have objected.
As I recall, it was Turner that made the Stalking Horse bid, while also being on the court doc's as a debtee. Both of those things would have been vetted, especially the Stalking Horse bid. Which as I further recall, the Stalking Horse bid was fully supported by the Trustee and more importantly, it went uncontested.
Now maybe people's sensibilities are offended by these actions, but everything Turner has done has been transparent and court approved. Welcome to the real world as none of this is unusual.
For me, most of this so far, indicates that Turner is highly intelligent and ballsy. He has made some brilliant chess moves that so far, have paid off.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not assigning him Hero status, as you say. In fact, I believe he's made a significant blunder in reviving and starting a pinball company. That would not be my choice but it's his money to spend.
It will be interesting for me to follow and see if he makes or not, but wow, starting a pinball company is borderline insanity in my opinion.
Quoted from Richthofen:To assign him hero status finally freed from Robert’s micromanagement is as foolish as how everyone assigned Robert hero status for stepping in to manage unmanageable JPOP.
Please don't splash me with your paint brush concerning Robert. I've publicly complimented you in the past for being out front on him and Deeproot. But I was also a Deeproot objector and appreciated your lead.
I'm just not ready to convict Turner of lighting striking 3 times, based only on speculation. It's way too early in my opinion but let's keep our wallets safe and monitor how things go.
I’ll just drop this quote here as it seems appropriate to ponder for this situation…
“The basic distinction between the legal and moral is easy enough to identify. Most people agree that what is legal is not necessarily moral and what is immoral should not necessarily be illegal.”
Quoted from benheck:CT is shady as hell. And this new company has all those life insurance premiums hanging over it, just like Robert's did. This company's life depends on people dying.
It's called, Life Settlement Providers and it's big industry with thousands of employees operating out in the open.
Here's a top 10 of company's and there are more I'm certain.
Yeah, I get it. It's not a very appealing proposition, but it does provide a service to people who may or may not have any other choices in life or death.
How many of you guys recognize the attached picture from TV commercials. J G Wentworth and others are doing basically the same thing only not necessarily waiting for people to die. Depends on the policy. Its stupid to do but some people fall on impossible times and this can give them a way out.
I'm not endorsing these type of business but it's a sad reality all around us.
Let the down-votes begin.
.
Quoted from Mr68:He has made some brilliant chess moves that so far, have paid off.
I'm truly curious to know what brilliant chess moves he has made that have paid off. He has a bunch of pinball related stuff but as far as I can tell, hasn't realized any revenue from those purchases. Will they turn into something great? Maybe, but so far he has only spent money.
With respect to the policies he purchased, I assume that a fair number of people with health issues would have passed during the initial Covid surge. This occurred before the purchase and, therefore, the pool may well contain a higher percentage of healthly people. That would throw the actuarial calcs way off. Add to that the interest rates were still low when the purchase took place and I'm left scratching my head wondering if this will turn out to be such a great deal after all is said and done. Now, of course, perhaps he immediately sold the policies for a nice profit or purchased them so far below the actuarial value that it will turn a nice profit in spite of these issues, but I've never heard this was the case. I'm not disputing that he may be intelligent or that these will become wonderful investments, I just don't see any payoff up til now.
Quoted from Mr68:Likely? How could he not know?
If this "insider information" was a breach of some laws, the Trustee and courts would have objected.
As I recall, it was Turner that made the Stalking Horse bid, while also being on the court doc's as a debtee. Both of those things would have been vetted, especially the Stalking Horse bid. Which as I further recall, the Stalking Horse bid was fully supported by the Trustee and more importantly, it went uncontested.
Now maybe people's sensibilities are offended by these actions, but everything Turner has done has been transparent and court approved. Welcome to the real world as none of this is unusual.
For me, most of this so far, indicates that Turner is highly intelligent and ballsy. He has made some brilliant chess moves that so far, have paid off.
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not assigning him Hero status, as you say. In fact, I believe he's made a significant blunder in reviving and starting a pinball company. That would not be my choice but it's his money to spend.
It will be interesting for me to follow and see if he makes or not, but wow, starting a pinball company is borderline insanity in my opinion.
Your just wanting to buy another pin LOL. Turner should and hopefully fails.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Did we ever identify this white wood?[quoted image]
Pulling back several pages in the thread, just snapped a better pic of this for you TreyBo69
I thought it was an early RAZA but I dunno. It’s MDF board, so clearly a test of some kind.
DA36BE4D-18DA-47D7-B0C6-3AA9D5276820 (resized).jpegQuoted from Oldgoat:I'm truly curious to know what brilliant chess moves he has made that have paid off. He has a bunch of pinball related stuff but as far as I can tell, hasn't realized any revenue from those purchases. Will they turn into something great? Maybe, but so far he has only spent money.
With respect to the policies he purchased, I assume that a fair number of people with health issues would have passed during the initial Covid surge. This occurred before the purchase and, therefore, the pool may well contain a higher percentage of healthly people. That would throw the actuarial calcs way off. Add to that the interest rates were still low when the purchase took place and I'm left scratching my head wondering if this will turn out to be such a great deal after all is said and done. Now, of course, perhaps he immediately sold the policies for a nice profit or purchased them so far below the actuarial value that it will turn a nice profit in spite of these issues, but I've never heard this was the case. I'm not disputing that he may be intelligent or that these will become wonderful investments, I just don't see any payoff up til now.
His Stalking Horse bid was brilliant. And I never said anything about him making a profit at this point, only making some smart moves.
Did you guys overlook my final comment?
Quoted from Mr68:In fact, I believe he's made a significant blunder in reviving and starting a pinball company. That would not be my choice but it's his money to spend.
It will be interesting for me to follow and see if he makes or not, but wow, starting a pinball company is borderline insanity in my opinion.
Quoted from Mr68:His Stalking Horse bid was brilliant. And I never said anything about him making a profit at this point, only making some smart moves.
Did you guys overlook my final comment?
My post was a response to you comment, "He has made some brilliant chess moves that so far, have paid off"
The "that so far have paid off" would suggest monetary benefit, i.e, $.
Also, curious as to how you've evaluated the ROI on his stalking horse bid to conclude it's brillance. Again, not disputing it is, just curious to see the data that supports that assessment.
Quoted from Oldgoat:My post was a response to you comment, "He has made some brilliant chess moves that so far, have paid off"
The "that so far have paid off" would suggest monetary benefit, i.e, $.
Also, curious as to how you've evaluated the ROI on his stalking horse bid to conclude it's brillance. Again, not disputing it is, just curious to see the data that supports that assessment.
It "paid off" for him by playing and winning the Stalking Horse bid. And it was a "brilliant" move in my opinion.
And I never said anything about evaluating a ROI to reach any conclusions.
What nonsense, I'm done with this conversation
Quoted from Jvspin:IMHO, CT has a rough road ahead. It's hard to get away from the stench of this whole fiasco!
Agreed and that's another reason why I think he made a blunder going into this business.
Thats said, ""IF"" he comes out with something new and shiny, a lot of the boo birds will suddenly forget all their past comments.
Please note my use of "IF"
Quoted from Mr68:Agreed and that's another reason why I think he made a blunder going into this business.
That's also what I don't understand. Why get into pinball manufacturing? Did he really get the idea from Robert he'll become multi millionaire doing so ?
Supposedly he had enough money to maintain and then buy the life insurance policies.
If they are so much more valuable, he could just sit back and relax and retire?
Say he was a pinball enthousiast or got into the hobby because of Robert.
He now got his hands on the raza prototypes and was probably the only one with the software.
So he can finish them. That I understand.
He could just do it behind the scenes, similar to how the dutch guys finished Magic Girl. Finish it silently, only announce something when they are ready. Keep one for his own and sell off the other two.
At least he doesn't seem to take it too big like Robert in a huge building with a lot of people.
Starting small (like Spooky did) seems a better way.
But still, the mafia guys failed, the cosmic carnival guys failed, .. raza deeproot only got 100 orders, punny thingy is also trying something, is the market really waiting for another small scale company?
Will a retry of a failed company do better ?
I don't see it happening. Especially now the big guys released a lot of machines.
And the machines now on the market (like pulp fiction) are from a experienced designers who know pinball, they live pinball, they know what makes it fun.
Pinball is not about putting flippers and some other mechanisms on a piece of wood. Then you get Thunderturds.
I have my doubts when people get into this business just because they think there's money to be made (Ballarama?) when they are not really into pinball before.
I hope he makes something great and succeeds, until then I remain sceptical.
Quoted from benheck:Dude you had a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to make yourself relevant again in this hobby and you BLEW IT. Blew it on beer, scratch tabs and expired meat.
You sound like a 48 year old dude who's never moved past being a high school quarterback.
Ben: going on 59 this July 1. Still enjoy all the guilty pleasures I am well known for, except for pull tabs or lottery tickets. My preference is nickel betting on our video lottery terminals. As for the MDF test by Chris Turner looks like a test to get people interested in what he might be showing at TPF. Seems like he has no interest in using Jpop, so maybe the curse will end. Likely he has more cards to play, & saying most Deeproot Pinball IT stuff was lost on the cloud server is brilliant! Pinball production is hard, but it can be done with good people, & good chunk of money. There are more players to enter the pinball manufacturing & parts business before 2025. Pinball is super hot for the home market even if the market is a small percentage of the population.
IMG_0337 (resized).JPGQuoted from greatwichjohn:Ben: going on 59 this July 1. Still enjoy all the guilty pleasures I am well known for, except for pull tabs or lottery tickets. My preference is nickel betting on our video lottery terminals. As for the MDF test by Chris Turner looks like a test to get people interested in what he might be showing at TPF. Seems like he has no interest in using Jpop, so maybe the curse will end. Likely he has more cards to play, & saying most Deeproot Pinball IT stuff was lost on the cloud server is brilliant! Pinball production is hard, but it can be done with good people, & good chunk of money. There are more players to enter the pinball manufacturing & parts business before 2025. Pinball is super hot for the home market even if the market is a small percentage of the population.
[quoted image]
No one cares about your bullshit, John. A few did until you burned that to the ground.
Quoted from aeneas:That's also what I don't understand. Why get into pinball manufacturing? Did he really get the idea from Robert he'll become multi millionaire doing so ?
Supposedly he had enough money to maintain and then buy the life insurance policies.
If they are so much more valuable, he could just sit back and relax and retire?
Say he was a pinball enthousiast or got into the hobby because of Robert.
He now got his hands on the raza prototypes and was probably the only one with the software.
So he can finish them. That I understand.
He could just do it behind the scenes, similar to how the dutch guys finished Magic Girl. Finish it silently, only announce something when they are ready. Keep one for his own and sell off the other two.
At least he doesn't seem to take it too big like Robert in a huge building with a lot of people.
Starting small (like Spooky did) seems a better way.
But still, the mafia guys failed, the cosmic carnival guys failed, .. raza deeproot only got 100 orders, punny thingy is also trying something, is the market really waiting for another small scale company?
Will a retry of a failed company do better ?
I don't see it happening. Especially now the big guys released a lot of machines.
And the machines now on the market (like pulp fiction) are from a experienced designers who know pinball, they live pinball, they know what makes it fun.
Pinball is not about putting flippers and some other mechanisms on a piece of wood. Then you get Thunderturds.
I have my doubts when people get into this business just because they think there's money to be made (Ballarama?) when they are not really into pinball before.
I hope he makes something great and succeeds, until then I remain sceptical.
I agree, Turner is a long shot and that's why I'm sceptical too. And I'll add that I find it probable we may see one of the existing pinball business close their doors.
One other thing about Turner. He has not said what his first game is or given out any details. It seems like a lot of people in this thread are making the assumption it will be RAZA.
If he comes out with RAZA as his inaugural machine, it will be an incredible blunder and woefully embarrassing.
Quoted from LORDDREK:Anytime a new build fantasy appears on the horizon, FOMO kicks in and all the usual suspects suddenly get memory loss. As one who is not able to be so financially irresponsible it can be quite entertaining to see…
There are so many companies and so many NIB pins available now - there’s no reason to ever have FOMO for shady startups again….especially ones with connections to multiple previous scams.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:No one cares about your bullshit, John. A few did until you burned that to the ground.
I miss John's bullshit thread... Time well wasted.
Quoted from Beechwood:Is this what you are bringing to TPF this year?
Hope your brothers driveway has some electricians waiting for you...
[quoted image]
He's got one week to finish... Or it dies.
Quoted from play_pinball:Pulling back several pages in the thread, just snapped a better pic of this for you TreyBo69
I thought it was an early RAZA but I dunno. It’s MDF board, so clearly a test of some kind.
[quoted image]
Thanks. I don’t know what game that was supposed to be attached to. Perhaps Alice in Wonderland? It’s such a funky layout with some interesting stuff going on
It’s clearly JPop’s because he’s super into making inserts slightly off center/symmetry (see shooter lane)
Edit yeah. Pretty sure this was Alice. A lot of similarities to the paper craft Zidware version
253DD867-12BB-465C-BB13-986DAEC125FF (resized).jpeg
Quoted from benheck:He's got one week to finish... Or it dies.
That is finished, just wait till you see the populated playfield!
Turner Pinball dropped a new video. Maybe we should start a thread for TP, if someone hasn't done so already.
Quoted from mbwalker:Turner Pinball dropped a new video. Maybe we should start a thread for TP, if someone hasn't done so already.
I bet 5 well meaning pinsiders just sent blank checks to this guy...that seems to be the SOP here.
Quoted from JodyG:I bet 5 well meaning pinsiders just sent blank checks to this guy...that seems to be the SOP here.
I'll offer this. Have the well meaning pinsiders pay me half of what this other nonexistent pinball will cost. I'll personally fly out to where they live, and kick them in the balls. At least they'll get something for their money.
Quoted from mbwalker:Turner Pinball dropped a new video. Maybe we should start a thread for TP, if someone hasn't done so already.
Still better than whatever dumb ninja game with stolen artwork Pinball Adventures has planned
Ninja Eclipse? Not interested in the slightest.
If not illegal insider trading, Turner used insider information from his relationship with deeproot (and his proximty from having an office inside the deeproot building) when making his stalking horse bids. This allowed him to gain while all deeproot 575 fund investors lost their life savings. I hope he fails miserably. And I don't believe for one second what he said about deeproot IP being lost in the cloud.
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