(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 33,609 posts
  • 1,150 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 hours ago by blueberryjohnson
  • Topic is favorited by 309 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

pasted_image (resized).png
Screenshot 2024-05-16 at 3.49.27?PM (resized).png
IMG_5406 (resized).jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
SEC-144-2024.05.03.pdf (PDF preview)
SEC-146-2024.05.03.pdf (PDF preview)
Screenshot 2024-05-03 at 7.50.17?PM (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
PXL_20240411_062859517 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
IMG_2583.gif

Topic index (key posts)

362 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 33,609 posts in this topic. You are on page 524 of 673.
#26151 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Guessing he used Zidware as a way to avoid storage unit fees?

And there it is. The whole mess was just a scheme by JPop to keep his junk out of the rain rent-free.

#26152 2 years ago

What is it they say - the gift that keeps giving. Jeeez.

24
#26153 2 years ago
Quoted from soren:

What is it they say - the gift that keeps giving. Jeeez.

No kidding.

From the latest filing today:

PLAINTIFF’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT ROBERT J. MUELLER’S BRIEF
REGARDING USE OF FUNDS SUBJECT TO ASSET FREEZE
Robert Mueller induced hundreds of people to invest more than $60 million into his “safe”
investment funds, including scores of investors who put their life savings under his control. He
appears to have spent nearly every penny. While his investors, many of whom worked their entire
lives for the money they entrusted to Mueller, are scrambling to figure out how to pay their bills
and survive, Mueller, who has yet to obtain gainful employment, asks the Court to let him squander
$8,500 per month out of what little remains of the money with which he was entrusted so that his
lifestyle can continue uninterrupted. Mueller also asks the Court to let him use at least $87,000 of
investor funds for legal representation in a hypothetical criminal action that may or may not occur
at some unknown point in the future. The Securities and Exchange Commission (“SEC”) opposes
his request in its entirety.

1 Since filing the Complaint, the SEC has learned that Mueller raised at least $7.2 million more
after being served with SEC investigative subpoenas in October 2020, see Ex. A ¶ 6, without an
apparent disclosure to investors of the SEC’s investigation. Notably, this included more than
$155,000 raised from investors after June 25, 2021, see id. ¶ 8, the date on which Mueller was
notified by the SEC staff that they were going to recommend to the Commission that it file this
securities fraud action against him and his companies. Again, Mueller took these funds without
any apparent disclosure of this development to investors. And nearly all of this $7.2 million has
been spent, see id. ¶ 14, indicating that even in the face of an SEC investigation Mueller has no
compunction about rapidly depleting investor assets and will continue to do so unless restrained.

The SEC reserves the right to amend the Complaint to reflect these newly-discovered facts.

[...]

Mueller has spent nearly all of the more than $60 million he raised from investors and
appears to have less than $400,000 in cash available to satisfy any potential judgment.

#26154 2 years ago
Quoted from Inside:

No kidding.
From the latest filing today:

Whoa... I mean, I already knew most of that, but to hear it stated by the SEC this way is just . . . ENTERTAINING!

#26155 2 years ago

Mueller is conspicuously precise when he states “there are no bank accounts in my name other
than those listed in the Order,” Dkt. 15-1 at ¶ 2 (emphasis added), but he makes no mention of
bank accounts that exist for his benefit or upon which he might draw. This includes at least one
account belonging to his wife that received $5,000 traceable to investor money, a newly-
discovered fact that may necessitate amending the Complaint to add her as a relief defendant. Nor
does he identify (or expressly disclaim) any investment or retirement accounts in his name or held
by others for his direct or indirect benefit.

LOL.

The SEC is feeding Robert a rope one inch at a time to hang himself on.

31
#26156 2 years ago
Quoted from Inside:

after being served with SEC investigative subpoenas in October 2020

Raza pre-orders were taken after he knew he was under investigation.

#26157 2 years ago

Based on representations from Mueller’s counsel, all or nearly all of the
funds Mueller is asking this Court to release from the PCB account are proceeds from the sale of
vintage or collectible pinball machines, which Mueller purchased for his own personal use with
company credit cards and then paid the resulting credit card bills with funds he withdrew from the
deeproot funds or the Entity Defendants – funds the SEC has alleged came entirely from investor
deposits.

Ooh. Here's where the money went:

a. between March 29, 2017 and February 12, 2021, $13,487,743 was transferred from
Deeproot Accounts to Relief Defendant Deeproot Tech LLC;
b. between April 15, 2019 and February 12, 2021, $3,621,512 was transferred from
Deeproot Accounts to Relief Defendant Deeproot Studios LLC;
c. between January 19, 2016 and July 18, 2017, $160,447 was transferred from Deeproot
Accounts to Relief Defendant Deeproot Sports & Entertainment LLC;
d. on January 8, 2021, $644,535 was transferred from Deeproot Accounts to Relief
Defendant Deeproot Re 12621 Silicon Dr LLC;
e. between November 15, 2016 and August 10, 2018, $329,054 was transferred from
Deeproot Accounts to Relief Defendant MB Hale Ohana Revocable Trust; and
f. between May 1, 2015 and February 11, 2021, Mr. Mueller also used bank accounts in
deeproot Funds’ and PSI’s names to make approximately $13,692,637 million in
payments that, based on my review of the Financial Records, appear to be for the
benefit of the Relief Defendants.

Assuming that (f) $13.6M went to pinball, that works out to at least $30.8M spent on deeproot pinball stuff.

There's accounting for a few million dollars more in there ($1.5M on personal expenses including a $54k[!] disney cruiser), but they haven't announced where the other $30M went. I'm guessing it's in a sock drawer in Mexico somewhere!

#26158 2 years ago

“Mueller also asks the Court to let him use at least $87,000 of investor funds for legal representation in a hypothetical criminal action that may or may not occur at some unknown point in the future.”

Looks like we’ll get to see that Octo-Mfg technique real soon
A41D6FC3-2208-41FA-A521-275600332CCE.gifA41D6FC3-2208-41FA-A521-275600332CCE.gif

21
#26159 2 years ago

Robert is a "Scum Iceberg"

There's the scum you can see - suing employees, hiring J-Colon, legal threats, "management" style...

Then underneath there's an even bigger bio-mass of SCUM supporting it all, as we're learning from the SEC.

Remember folks - new companies inbound. Give them ZERO benefit of the doubt until they prove their stuff.

#26160 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Robert is a "Scum Iceberg"
There's the scum you can see - suing employees, [...].

Who has he sued?

#26161 2 years ago

Looks like Robert might've killed "G-Force Technical" - the company that sold him the pick and place equipment. Robert claimed it was defective, except the leaked pictures & commentary from a few pages back makes it sound like some inept deeproot staff hooked it up incorrectly...

Google is showing them as "Permanently closed" and the lawsuit (https://portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud/app/RegisterOfActions/#/5158B236775D18688A6ADDC48FFFE25EB57A1942FDE0C85D3EF887B334E893BEAF9432DEFA6DDFA19323895E8B7FCD80/anon/portalembed) has gone into a "case closed, default judgement" state.

RIP

15
#26162 2 years ago

Good lord, if I swindled $60,000,000, id have a lot more to show for it, then a few ex wives. Like houses, lambos and used G 5's. This guy cant even spend money the right way...

13
#26163 2 years ago

Wow this guy has likely ruined thousands of peoples and their family’s lives. Stealing their lifes savings, I cant even imagine how I would feel. I hope he goes to prison for the rest of his life.

#26164 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinistarrett:

Wow this guy has likely ruined thousands of peoples and their family’s lives. Stealing their lifes savings, I cant even imagine how I would feel. I hope he goes to prison for the rest of his life.

My guess is a judgment that he'll discharge in bankruptcy and if there's a criminal trial (big IF) then he'll spend 3-6 months in a low security "club fed."

29
#26165 2 years ago

It's too bad our talking negatively about deeproot has caused so much trouble for this otherwise successful business.

#26166 2 years ago

How about on K's podcast interview when "Blobert" was asked about answering to investors regarding his pinball venture and he replied "there's no investors in pinball". He knew the was pulling the the wool over their eyes.
Talk about self incriminating.

22
#26167 2 years ago

Reading these new docs. I know this is nothing new, but it bears repeating: what a fucking scumbag.

#26168 2 years ago

Reading the insider report I connected a couple of dots. Robert Mueller and Andrew Heighway feel over the same stone. They both had the vision that, people will buy our product because it is easier to repair. Doh.

R & A both having the illusion that no one can use a soldering iron anymore. And operators will surely buy up a large stock of plug and play parts and carry that around.

Remember Heighway and the flipper mech modules.

Not realising the overhead cost. If these devices will just fail more frequently. Or the fact that many other things may wear out or break.

Anyone thinking about going into pinball design and manufactoring finding their way here for tips, here is the news...

Build an exciting game and people will buy it. Having it in need of occational repair on location, the operator do not mind as long as the cash box is full with each visit to fix stuff.

In addition to a great design and a reasonable build quality. Document the game. Build it with assistance for troubleshooting. Use commonly available parts. Have spare custom parts available. Done.

#26169 2 years ago
Quoted from Inside:

Mueller has spent nearly all of the more than $60 million he raised from investors and
appears to have less than $400,000 in cash available to satisfy any potential judgment.

This is my dog scammer.
Think he likes to bury his bones.

103173E4-2142-4FD8-A289-894EB00E4936 (resized).jpeg103173E4-2142-4FD8-A289-894EB00E4936 (resized).jpeg
19
#26170 2 years ago

This douchebag fleeced the retirement funds from 300+ people, burned through the vast majority of those funds while living out some kind of jet fueled “Silicon Valley Wannabe” fever dream, CONTINUED to accept investor money even after he knew the SEC had his number, and now wants the equivalent of a ~$150,000 salary (a salary far greater than he deserves, based on his track record) just so he can “continue his lifestyle uninterrupted” while this is all litigated, essentially riding this train wreck straight off the cliff it’s heading for without losing any speed.

It’s just amazing that a person like this has the goddamn audacity to ask for what amounts to an $8500/month “allowance” (made up of the very funds he conned from his investors) rather than sacking up, showing some fucking humility, and maybe living a less luxurious lifestyle than the one he’s been living to date.

Zero remorse, zero responsibility. What a spineless husk of a person. Embarrassing to the human race.

#26171 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Robert is a "Scum Iceberg"

Back into to the iceberg you go, Scumbag!

CF0C9D5A-9845-4341-BCE0-E58B4334ECA0.gifCF0C9D5A-9845-4341-BCE0-E58B4334ECA0.gif
#26172 2 years ago

In a way, bernie madoff was better off with the protection of life prison. If Robert gets the pathetic 1-2 year sentence like many are saying, he will be out with no money and no job prospect. He can no longer run an investment firm or even practice law. Also odds are at least one of those 300 people he screwed out of retirement (who have nothing better to do) might decide to track exactly when he's released from prison and pay him a visit outside.

#26173 2 years ago

So did we ever work out what was going to happen for the 5 days of Deep Root?

15
#26174 2 years ago
Quoted from Zzap:So did we ever work out what was going to happen for the 5 days of Deep Root?

Day 1: Mueller and wife charged criminally
Day 2: Trial begins
Day 3: Verdict reached
Day 4: Sentencing
Day 5: Report to prison

#26175 2 years ago

As we learn more about where this money came from, and who got harmed, I'm more thankful I never believed in deeproot's bullshit and never signed onto their zidware compensation. I'd be feeling pretty dirty today had I taken that money.

#26176 2 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

I am rooting for deeproot, but those numbers are scary. If they make 50 machines per week (JJP numbers), and make $2000 per machine, if they are paying 6% to their initial investors it would take them almost 20 years to break even.
Let's say Deeproot is invested in this all at $30,000,000. How much "profit" do they need to make on a machine? Let's say for the purpose of math (and making it easier to alter later) it is $1,000. That means that in order for Deeproot to break even, they would need to make ($30,000,000/$1,000) 30,000 machines just to break even. Let's step that up further and say that they reach the rumored manufacturing capacity of Jersey Jack Pinball of 50 machines per week. This would imply that (30,000/50) 600 weeks or 11.5 years were needed just to break even. If you want to say they make $2,000 per machine that makes 5.75 years or $3,000 per machine makes almost 4 years just to break even. But wait! Deeproot must be paying their investors some sort of rate of return. 11.5 years at $1,000 per machine and Deeproot promised... say a 6% return on investment once production started, then they would owe investors almost $60 million after 11.5 years, not $30 million. In fact, if you include interest of 6% on Deeptroot initial startup money at $30,000,000, produce at the rate of Jersey Jack (50 per week), Deeproot would never be able to eliminate its startup debt. At $2,000 markup per machine it would take them ALMOST 20 YEARS to eliminate startup debt.
Please note I have no insider knowledge of Deeproot and am pulling the numbers for debt repayment based off of online calculators. My math may or may not be right but from my purely mathematical analysis I do not see this company making it long term. With that said I am rooting for them.

So... my original math on this was way off. We now know that Robert spent closer to $60,000,000 on Deeproot based on the above posts quoting government documents. If they matched JJP's level of production, paid no taxes, and made $1,000 per machine... it would take 60,000 machines to break even, or 22.5 years. That works out to... as far as I can figure out... more machines than any manufacturer except Gottlieb, Williams, and Stern have ever made... just to break even... much less pay back returns to initial investors. Assuming they were paying 6% to investors, they would never pay back the funds. If there was a $2,000 per machine markup and they were paying back investors... it would take 40 years to break even.

Remember that basic business class you took in High School? You would get a failing grade pitching any of this.

#26178 2 years ago

I read the investment prospectus that was posted a couple weeks ago (Appendix A) but I can't find that post now. I should have bookmarked it.

Personally, after reading the prospectus I can not feel sorry for the investors. More than enough red flags in there to stop any reasonable investor.

The only thing I recall that was actually violated was the 50% limit on the investment in other companies. If I recall correctly the prospectus was clear that investors would have NO view into those investments (red flag). If the defense can argue that 50% was really 50% of the ultimate value of the fund this will get murky.

Lack of fund manager experience was clearly stated as a risk factor. Judges are not going to rule on whether the deeproot companies were viable. Judges are also not going to rule on what a proper salary is. The charges say that a company credit card was used for personal expenses. I'm assuming that's a violation; I don't know why he wouldn't have just paid himself $5M and then bought all that stuff "legally". Tax avoidance maybe.

Obviously I hope the SEC wins their case, but the legal system never seems to work the way I hope.

28
#26179 2 years ago

Im just here to say “shit” to see if I can earn a downvote from that green guy.

#26180 2 years ago

"rent payments which the SEC understands are made to his father ($1,912)"

Lol.

#26181 2 years ago

And this my fellow pinheads, is a perfect example of why I hate people. This guy most likely will not get nearly the punishment he deserves, unless he can't afford a lawyer and gets appointed one.

#26182 2 years ago
Quoted from KerryImming:

Personally, after reading the prospectus I can not feel sorry for the investors. More than enough red flags in there to stop any reasonable investor.
The only thing I recall that was actually violated was the 50% limit on the investment in other companies. If I recall correctly the prospectus was clear that investors would have NO view into those investments (red flag). If the defense can argue that 50% was really 50% of the ultimate value of the fund this will get murky.
Lack of fund manager experience was clearly stated as a risk factor.

The SEC made it sounds like he was calling up old ladies on the phone and convincing them to invest their life savings in RAZA. The prospectus is written to be as confusing as possible and Robert has that sweet-talking used car salesman vibe.

#26183 2 years ago
Quoted from Inside:

The SEC made it sounds like he was calling up old ladies on the phone and convincing them to invest their life savings in RAZA. The prospectus is written to be as confusing as possible and Robert has that sweet-talking used car salesman vibe.

TLSLE (Total Life Savings Loss Experience)

#26184 2 years ago
Quoted from KerryImming:

I read the investment prospectus that was posted a couple weeks ago (Appendix A) but I can't find that post now. I should have bookmarked it.
Personally, after reading the prospectus I can not feel sorry for the investors. More than enough red flags in there to stop any reasonable investor.
The only thing I recall that was actually violated was the 50% limit on the investment in other companies. If I recall correctly the prospectus was clear that investors would have NO view into those investments (red flag). If the defense can argue that 50% was really 50% of the ultimate value of the fund this will get murky.
Lack of fund manager experience was clearly stated as a risk factor. Judges are not going to rule on whether the deeproot companies were viable. Judges are also not going to rule on what a proper salary is. The charges say that a company credit card was used for personal expenses. I'm assuming that's a violation; I don't know why he wouldn't have just paid himself $5M and then bought all that stuff "legally". Tax avoidance maybe.
Obviously I hope the SEC wins their case, but the legal system never seems to work the way I hope.

"You see your honor, my clients were IDIOTS for buying into a fund where 50% of the money is spent in a very risky manner"

I mean.... It's true...

#26185 2 years ago

Oh BTW I drained the sycophants thread... Do they still think RAZA is getting made?

#26186 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

"You see your honor, my clients were IDIOTS for buying into a fund where 50% of the money is spent in a very risky manner"
I mean.... It's true...

No disagreement here that his investors were probably not the most intelligent/cautious/discerning. It might lessen the legal implications of what he did to some extent (hope not), but obviously we can all agree he's still a terrible person regardless of the law (or any tricksy wording in his investor prospectus).

Murderers aren't considered "less murderous" when they pick easy targets. Dipshit con-artists shouldn't be "less con-artistic" when they do the same.

#26187 2 years ago
Quoted from JStoltz:

No disagreement here that his investors were probably not the most intelligent/cautious/discerning. It might lessen the legal implications of what he did to some extent (hope not), but obviously we can all agree he's still a terrible person regardless of the law.
Murderers aren't considered "less murderous" when they pick easy targets. Dipshit con-artists shouldn't be "less con-artistic" when they do the same.

Let's all just agree that try as we might, the justice system isn't *actually* set up to be fair

#26188 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Oh BTW I drained the sycophants thread... Do they still think RAZA is getting made?

The cultists have gone silent. Some people talking about whether they're getting credit card refunds or not.

#26189 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Raza pre-orders were taken after he knew he was under investigation.

Are you saying I may not get my RAZA? My plumbers uncle played it and you are going to flip when you own it. I'm guessing this is a little delay, and we will still get out games.

- Signed everyone in the Raza thread in July of 2021

#26190 2 years ago
Quoted from Yoreland:

How about on K's podcast interview when "Blobert" was asked about answering to investors regarding his pinball venture and he replied "there's no investors in pinball". He knew the was pulling the the wool over their eyes.
Talk about self incriminating.

I remember that, he said it was "my money", nobody elses. Pure hubris.

#26191 2 years ago

Looked at from a higher plain, people select a financial advisors and put their trust in them to preserve and build their nest egg. Make no mistake, it is their one and only nest. The advisors buy funds from agents like RM, who are regulated with paperwork requirements out the gazoo. RM recklessly spends cash invested in dr funds and keeps no paper trail. What seized bank records do show is a spending pattern on unrelated expenses and illegal activities.

Seems pinball expenditures made $30M or half the $60M spent. While revenue from pinball investment was zero and the revenue from other half of assets was zero, also. But the investors and Uncle Sam provided 99.9% of funding and pinball the remaining crumbs. I can’t but discount everything written about the pinball saga as being petty. The investors are the ONLY ones who deserve attention paid and the sideshow of dr and RAZA should be told with a best selling book and hbo special movie with all proceeds given to the scammed.

#26192 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Looked at from a higher plain, people select a financial advisors and put their trust in them to preserve and build their nest egg. Make no mistake, it is the one and only best. The advisors buy funds from agents like RM who are regulated with paperwork requirements out the gazoo. RM then recklessly spends cash invested in dr funds.
Seems like pinball expenditures made $30M or half the $60M spent. Revenue from pinball investment was zero and being fair the revenue from other half of assets was zero, also.

We only know that pinball expenditures were $30M as a minimum because of directly traceable transfers. The SEC filings haven’t said where the other $30M has gone. Deeproot studios at $3.6M seems really low because earlier we’d calculated that he owed $1.5M in back pay for a 3 month period.

#26193 2 years ago

Someone wake me when RM is incarcerated... hopefully a shorter nap than Rip Van Winkle

#26194 2 years ago

One of the SEC documents mentioned the amount he spent on the investments he was actually supposed to buy, but it was only a couple million of the sixty million

It’s insane how much wealth literally disappeared into unrecoverable things like salaries for a pinball company and animation studio that made no sellable product, private school for his kids, vacations, Robert’s growing belt line, sports tickets, etc. It seemed like he was giving out loans to his friends for things like car washes. Who knows how much he wasted on pointless trademarks, patents, and shoddily structured shell companies to poorly hide all this stuff.

And it’s still crazy how fast he spent it all. Like if he wasn’t so greedy or egotistical, he could have probably ran this Ponzi for decades before it collapsed.

Besides what’s left in the accounts, there’s probably only like a million dollars worth of office and manufacturing equipment worth anything at auction. Then maybe another million in real estate, jewelry, pinball machines, etc

And he has the balls to ask for an allowance and to use what’s left to pay defense lawyers.

I’m still curious what tipped them off. I’d like to think an investor found this nightmare thread after some lite googling.

#26195 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

One of the SEC documents mentioned the amount he spent on the investments he was actually supposed to buy, but it was only a couple million of the sixty million
It’s insane how much wealth literally disappeared into unrecoverable things like salaries for a pinball company and animation studio that made no sellable product, private school for his kids, vacations, Robert’s growing belt line, sports tickets, etc. It seemed like he was giving out loans to his friends for things like car washes. Who knows how much he wasted on pointless trademarks, patents, and shoddily structured shell companies to poorly hide all this stuff.
Besides what’s left in the accounts, there’s probably only like a million dollars worth of office and manufacturing equipment worth anything at auction. Then maybe another million in real estate, jewelry, pinball machines, etc
And he has the balls to ask for an allowance and to use what’s left to pay defense lawyers.
I’m still curious what tipped them off. I’d like to think an investor found this nightmare thread after some lite googling.

Robert wasn’t the only fund manager at Deeproot. He had at least a few other people including his brother!

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2017/08/16/san-antonio-financial-adviser-raises-15m-from.html

Looks like the brother got out in 2018 (right after Robert decided to stop investing money as promised), but he’s pretty high up in the Air Force reserve and in his civilian job:

https://www.zoominfo.com/p/Cary-Mueller/-2025337507

The brother probably had a lot to lose...

#26196 2 years ago
Quoted from Inside:

Robert wasn’t the only fund manager at Deeproot. He had at least a few other people including his brother!
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2017/08/16/san-antonio-financial-adviser-raises-15m-from.html
Looks like the brother got out in 2018 (right after Robert decided to stop investing money as promised), but he’s pretty high up in the Air Force reserve and in his civilian job:
https://www.zoominfo.com/p/Cary-Mueller/-2025337507
The brother probably had a lot to lose...

His brother was also probably subject to a background check by the feds

#26197 2 years ago

I really don't understand how this specific type of person (narcissistic, incompetent, blonde, fat, blowhard criminal) can inspire such fanatical devotion. Until the house of cards fell down, the Deeproot threads were chock full of morons defending Mueller and every single one of his missteps, broken promises, and outright lies. Now that the truth (which is worse than pretty much anyone predicted) is out, near radio silence- from the people who were cheerleaders for this scam and lent credibility to a blatantly criminal enterprise.

Does anyone know if a separate lawsuit has been filed by any of the RAZA preorder folks? If I had given thousands of dollars to a guy who's now arguing to the SEC that he should be able to use stolen money to pay for insurance on his Lexus, I'd be tripping over myself to try and claw it back.

The more time goes by, the more I agree with Bill Burr's joke that we should fix environmental problems by randomly sinking cruise ships. "I think it's a good mix of people to get rid of."

#26198 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Raza pre-orders were taken after he knew he was under investigation.

Pretty bold, pretty slimy and he kept telling those who pre ordered they just were running into problems after that. Baloney about UL certification and some other crap. And those folks still believed it....

Then you go to the bigger scam and look at the people who lost their life savings !

This guy is a real piece of work. What a crook. Hoodwinking people up and down the ladder in all he does. And people believe him. Everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie or leads back to a lie or improper or criminal conduct. Holy cow.

10
#26199 2 years ago
Quoted from ufotofu:

I really don't understand how this specific type of person (narcissistic, incompetent, blonde, fat, blowhard criminal) can inspire such fanatical devotion. Until the house of cards fell down, the Deeproot threads were chock full of morons defending Mueller and every single one of his missteps, broken promises, and outright lies. Now that the truth (which is worse than pretty much anyone predicted) is out, near radio silence- from the people who were cheerleaders for this scam and lent credibility to a blatantly criminal enterprise.
Does anyone know if a separate lawsuit has been filed by any of the RAZA preorder folks? If I had given thousands of dollars to a guy who's now arguing to the SEC that he should be able to use stolen money to pay for insurance on his Lexus, I'd be tripping over myself to try and claw it back.
The more time goes by, the more I agree with Bill Burr's joke that we should fix environmental problems by randomly sinking cruise ships. "I think it's a good mix of people to get rid of."

and you don't see the correlation to what this country has been going thru for years? Or throughout history. One thing con men are good at is sales pitches and saying what people want to hear. They know what their strengths are, and then they are usually pretty good redirection 'but look at that squirrel' when ppl start asking questions. People are gullible. It doesn't matter what their history shows, it's all about what they say now, even as the house is falling down around them. People will believe the lies, because they want to for that little chance of being right / feeling lofty over others.

#26200 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The cultists have gone silent. Some people talking about whether they're getting credit card refunds or not.

And I wonder how many lost after the whole process ran it's course on the chargeback. Some of those refunds likely were pulled back by the credit card companies further down the line in the review process.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 1.29
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Austin, TX
From: $ 8.99
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here
There are 33,609 posts in this topic. You are on page 524 of 673.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/524 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.