(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#28851 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Huh, I'm actually a bit surprised at the amount of CNCed playfields and cab parts. I didn't expect to see any stockpiles like that.

I'm not. If you've read the comments from former employees, it sounded like Robert really was trying to push out like a dozen playfield layouts simultaneously, hence competing with his own games. There's a reason why Stern only releases one title about every 3-4 months (and doesn't let the upcoming titles leak). They want you focused on what's available RIGHT NOW.

#28852 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I'm not. If you've read the comments from former employees, it sounded like Robert really was trying to push out like a dozen playfield layouts simultaneously, hence competing with his own games. There's a reason why Stern only releases one title about every 3-4 months (and doesn't let the upcoming titles leak). They want you focused on what's available RIGHT NOW.

No, I wasn't not talking about designs/whitewoods.

There are 2 pallets of CNCed playfields & cabs in one of the lots:

https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537378/2-pallets-of-pre-cut-pinball-boards/?cpage=4&ipp=100&q=&ref=catalog

I was surprised they got to the point of ordering custom parts in any sort of quantity.

#28853 1 year ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I'm guessing they made wooden bucks out of MDF for the prototype ramps, which is why they all appear to be frosted in the game. The wood texture transposes to the plastic during thermoforming. There are ways around that, but im not giving my secrets away.

Primer and sanding is a trade secret now? =Þ

#28854 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

No, I wasn't not talking about designs/whitewoods.
There are 2 pallets of CNCed playfields & cabs in one of the lots:
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537378/2-pallets-of-pre-cut-pinball-boards/?cpage=4&ipp=100&q=&ref=catalog
I was surprised they got to the point of ordering custom parts in any sort of quantity.

looks like they were at least making an attempt at building that whopping 100 RAZA machines. they were probably sitting loose in the octo manufacturing area, and the auction house likely palleted and shrunk wrap them to keep them from getting damaged during transport.

#28855 1 year ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

1. A bunch of pinball nerds have a valid opinion on what or who is "cool"?
2. A bunch of adults give a shit what cool kids wear?
3. Did no one here get the memo ten years ago that ragging on Rush is no longer cool?
[quoted image]

I have no idea why they didn't use "Time Stand Still" during that Quicksilver sequence. He had the Rush shirt! It was all set up!

#28856 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

looks like they were at least making an attempt at building that whopping 100 RAZA machines. they were probably sitting loose in the octo manufacturing area, and the auction house likely palleted and shrunk wrap them to keep them from getting damaged during transport.

It's hard to tell what all parts they do and don't have, but there are lots of pallets of speakers, computers, power supplies, pop bumpers, switches, shaker motors, coin doors, raw materials for making things, etc..

I wonder how close they were to having everything in house. I've seen some parts with June 2021 manufacturing dates on them, so by all appearance they were trying till the SEC showed up.

I would think places like Pinball Life or Marcos would drive a truck up there to fill up on generic parts. Some of the stuff came from those shops and looks like it's still in the original packaging.

If I was local to the area, I'd try to snag their escalera for cheap

#28857 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I would think places like Pinball Life or Marcos would drive a truck up there to fill up on generic parts. Some of the stuff came from those shops and looks like it's still in the original packaging.

I'm not really seeing too many generic parts. Most of it seems to be either entirely custom or specifically tweaked for RAZA.

#28858 1 year ago

I do wonder what a "pallete" of RAZA playfields is really worth. I could see someone maybe wanting one or two playfields for some sort of homebrew project, but what would you do with a hundred of them?

24
#28859 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I do wonder what a "pallete" of RAZA playfields is really worth. I could see someone maybe wanting one or two playfields for some sort of homebrew project, but what would you do with a hundred of them?

greatwichjohn may know some folks with ideas

#28860 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I'm not really seeing too many generic parts. Most of it seems to be either entirely custom or specifically tweaked for RAZA.

Here's like $5k worth of shaker motors
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180172/large-lot-shaker-motor-kits/?cpage=2&q=&ref=catalog

A bunch of connectors I think Spooky might be using? Or could be helpful for homebrewers. There's also just a ton of lots with connectors and wire on the spool
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180171/assorted-wiring-harness-connectors/?cpage=2&q=&ref=catalog

Enough stuff for a few dozen coin doors and replacement coin mechs
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180253/pinball-cabinet-parts---coin-slot-parts-/?cpage=4&q=&ref=catalog

Common hardware and locks
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180254/table-w--assorted-hardware/?cpage=4&q=&ref=catalog

A bunch of unopened pop mechs
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115284668/shop-table-w--contents/?cpage=5&q=&ref=catalog

Power supplies (for homebrewers)
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115284683/25-boxes-w--10ea--computer-power-supplys/?cpage=5&q=&ref=catalog

Anti-fatigue matts that some shops sell to players
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115410530/5-2x6-anti-fatigue-mats/?cpage=5&q=&ref=catalog

Pinball glass (Idk if these fit a standard game)
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537379/2-crates-of-large-pinball-window-glass/?cpage=7&q=&ref=catalog

Random unused coils, and maybe some troughs as well (as an aside, I'm surprised Robert didn't insist on spinning their own coils or at least putting their logo on the wrapper)
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537362/assorted-pinball-solenoids/?cpage=6&q=&ref=catalog

I'm sure there is a crate of pinball legs and such somewhere in the mess. And then some other lots that are interesting

Here is a pile of cut RAZA playfields. If they have art, I bet someone starts to sell these
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537378/2-pallets-of-pre-cut-pinball-boards/?cpage=7&q=&ref=catalog

Also I don't know what this, but I am curious to its function and purpose. Stress testing mechs and their electronics?
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115284705/pinball-plunger-solenoid-tester/?cpage=5&q=&ref=catalog

#28861 1 year ago

Whoever gets the bottles, please, for the love of god, sell one to me.

#28862 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

but what would you do with a hundred of them?

Make a lot of money....

#28863 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I do wonder what a "pallete" of RAZA playfields is really worth. I could see someone maybe wanting one or two playfields for some sort of homebrew project, but what would you do with a hundred of them?

Lets say you got the all 100 playfields for $10,000. I think you could double your money on those selling them for $200 at shows and online. Whoever snags those needs to send the first one to Project Pinball.

#28864 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Lets say you got the all 100 playfields for $10,000. I think you could double your money on those selling them for $200 at shows and online. Whoever snags those needs to send the first one to Project Pinball.

If the art is printed on them, I think they could be sold to collectors for a few hundred bucks a pop. I don't think they have much value without the art.

Can't tell because they're facing down. But it is telling they don't have the wiring guide printed on the back of the playfield, which was one of their "this is an old idea, but new to some people" innovations.

Also...did they not make these in house? Did they get them dropped off from another manufacturer? I ask since they're wrapped up in pallets...I doubt the auction company did that considering the mess some of the lots are in.

#28865 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

greatwichjohn may know some folks with ideas

You never know what will come next. Things have to fall in place, & you better have a game plan. The people that have some sort of clue will go the Spooky start & not get into buying excessive equipment. Also small pinball projects could be built with a small team of 1-5, increase the numbers for faster & higher output as time goes on. The new interested players trying to enter the market need to keep it lean, & have good financial backing.

#28866 1 year ago

Those stacked playfields of lot #311 you see there on that pile are not printed.
They are even missing the inserts when you look closer.
So they still had to glue in the inserts, sand them flat, primer, print and lacquer them.
So all they are good for now is just firewood.
Unless you can do all the next steps to finish them.
But the question on which you will get stuck is, where will i get the artwork files from..... ?

#28867 1 year ago

Not a problem getting inserts & playfields ready. You would also need the rights owners permission to move forward.

#28868 1 year ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Not a problem getting inserts & playfields ready. You would also need the rights owners permission to move forward.

But then you'd also need the custom ramps, mechs, plastics, metal bits, etc...

It would be interesting if they were auctioning off CAD files and such, but they don't appear to be doing that yet

I'm still guessing that the Utah studio output ends up in crappy mobile game ads

#28869 1 year ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Not a problem getting inserts

Assuming the inserts are common inserts and not custom ones used specific to these playfields. Imagine you win the lot of pf and find out there are 1 or 2 inserts that are custom. Doh

#28870 1 year ago

Blows my mind that people are even hypothesizing about finishing those cut blank playfields. Pinball community has more than its share of glass 100% full, wild-eyed eternal optimists. God bless you each and every one.

#28871 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

Blows my mind that people are even hypothesizing about finishing those cut blank playfields. Pinball community has more than its share of glass 100% full, wild-eyed eternal optimists. God bless you each and every one.

I'd drop $200 on a playfield with art TO HANG ON MY WALL. No way I'd actually try and build one of these.

#28872 1 year ago

No money in it at $200 when you factor in:

Quoted from Revo76:

Those stacked playfields of lot #311 you see there on that pile are not printed.
They are even missing the inserts when you look closer.
So they still had to glue in the inserts, sand them flat, primer, print and lacquer them.
So all they are good for now is just firewood.
Unless you can do all the next steps to finish them.
But the question on which you will get stuck is, where will i get the artwork files from..... ?

Would you pay $500?

#28873 1 year ago
Quoted from meSz:

Assuming the inserts are common inserts and not custom ones used specific to these playfields. Imagine you win the lot of pf and find out there are 1 or 2 inserts that are custom. Doh

Not a problem. People are making new ones other ways then traditional. You just have to source the parts & deal with vendors FAIRLY!

#28874 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

No money in it at $200 when you factor in:

Would you pay $500?

A reproduction playfield goes for about $800, no?

You can buy and flip the blank playfields, but unless you own the artwork, you can’t populate/paint and sell them.

So right now they’re worth probably …. Nothing unless people want to hang up a blank unidentifiable pinball playfield. You shouldn’t even burn them in a backyard fire pit because of the paint.

#28875 1 year ago

All I'm hearing is the dumpster diving will be real good after the auction...

#28876 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Here's like $5k worth of shaker motors
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180172/large-lot-shaker-motor-kits/?cpage=2&q=&ref=catalog
A bunch of connectors I think Spooky might be using? Or could be helpful for homebrewers. There's also just a ton of lots with connectors and wire on the spool
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180171/assorted-wiring-harness-connectors/?cpage=2&q=&ref=catalog
Enough stuff for a few dozen coin doors and replacement coin mechs
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180253/pinball-cabinet-parts---coin-slot-parts-/?cpage=4&q=&ref=catalog
Common hardware and locks
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115180254/table-w--assorted-hardware/?cpage=4&q=&ref=catalog
A bunch of unopened pop mechs
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115284668/shop-table-w--contents/?cpage=5&q=&ref=catalog
Power supplies (for homebrewers)
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115284683/25-boxes-w--10ea--computer-power-supplys/?cpage=5&q=&ref=catalog
Anti-fatigue matts that some shops sell to players
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115410530/5-2x6-anti-fatigue-mats/?cpage=5&q=&ref=catalog
Pinball glass (Idk if these fit a standard game)
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537379/2-crates-of-large-pinball-window-glass/?cpage=7&q=&ref=catalog
Random unused coils, and maybe some troughs as well (as an aside, I'm surprised Robert didn't insist on spinning their own coils or at least putting their logo on the wrapper)
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537362/assorted-pinball-solenoids/?cpage=6&q=&ref=catalog
I'm sure there is a crate of pinball legs and such somewhere in the mess. And then some other lots that are interesting
Here is a pile of cut RAZA playfields. If they have art, I bet someone starts to sell these
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115537378/2-pallets-of-pre-cut-pinball-boards/?cpage=7&q=&ref=catalog
Also I don't know what this, but I am curious to its function and purpose. Stress testing mechs and their electronics?
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/115284705/pinball-plunger-solenoid-tester/?cpage=5&q=&ref=catalog

Ah, well, I was thinking more of WPC era replacement parts, not homebrew stuff. I can't imagine too many folks need power supplies in bulk, though.

I'm not sure I would trust that glass and legs are universal given the fact that deeproot wanted to reinvent everything.

#28877 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

All I'm hearing is the dumpster diving will be real good after the auction...

Might also be Roberts next career choice.

16
#28878 1 year ago

Court alert:

Robert is due in front of the Honorable Xavier Rodriguez on Tuesday, March 15 at 1030 CST

Zoom
https://txwd-uscourts.zoomgov.com/j/1600314869?pwd=MkhpQkFpTWJsNGpVSnhnV1FNcEgvUT09

Phone
Dial by your location
+1 669 254 5252 US (San Jose)
+1 669 216 1590 US (San Jose)
+1 646 828 7666 US (New York)
+1 551 285 1373 US
Meeting ID: 160 031 4869
Passcode: 504551
International users: https://txwd-uscourts.zoomgov.com/zoomconference?m=MTYwMDMxNDg2OQ.oZhgl1clOc4hL69lX1B5Ff9FJZCGY0LY

Judge Rodriguez Civil docket for Tuesday, March 15th.pdfJudge Rodriguez Civil docket for Tuesday, March 15th.pdf
#28879 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

Whoever gets the bottles, please, for the love of god, sell one to me.

...and me!

(That's two of us that'll help you offset your winning bid...)

#28880 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Court alert:
Robert is due in front of the Honorable Xavier Rodriguez on Tuesday, March 15 at 1030 CST
Zoom
https://txwd-uscourts.zoomgov.com/j/1600314869?pwd=MkhpQkFpTWJsNGpVSnhnV1FNcEgvUT09
Phone
Dial by your location
+1 669 254 5252 US (San Jose)
+1 669 216 1590 US (San Jose)
+1 646 828 7666 US (New York)
+1 551 285 1373 US
Meeting ID: 160 031 4869
Passcode: 504551
International users: https://txwd-uscourts.zoomgov.com/zoomconference?m=MTYwMDMxNDg2OQ.oZhgl1clOc4hL69lX1B5Ff9FJZCGY0LY
[quoted image]

I would literally s*** my pants if I had a document in front of me that said SEC verse RoostKing LOL. Not a good day for Robert I hope he never has any good days again

#28881 1 year ago

I also would like a deep root water bottle

#28882 1 year ago

The other thing is about printing the art on the blank playfields, it just doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't have that authentic orange peel texture.

16
#28883 1 year ago

More and more lots added each day. There are a lots of lots (we are now up to 380).

For years, some thought Robert was running a scam where he never actually intended to build anything. I disagreed, and this auction vindicates my position: Robert was a colossal idiot who had no idea what he was doing and constantly fucked everything up.

#28884 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

More and more lots added each day. There are a lots of lots (we are now up to 380).
For years, some thought Robert was running a scam where he never actually intended to build anything. I disagreed, and this auction vindicates my position: Robert was a colossal idiot who had no idea what he was doing and constantly fucked everything up.

Except that it was always a scam. He always intended to steal money from old ladies to pull this off.

It can always be a scam, and he could always have been an idiot. Not exclusive !

#28885 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Except that it was always a scam. He always intended to steal money from old ladies to pull this off.
It can always be a scam, and he could always have been an idiot. Not exclusive !

I wasn't disputing it was a scam, just disputing the type of scam (acting as if you are trying to build games but not actually doing anything behind the scenes - incidentally, I've never quite understood how that type of scam was supposed to work or benefit him).

#28886 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

I wasn't disputing it was a scam, just disputing the type of scam (acting as if you are trying to build games but not actually doing anything behind the scenes - incidentally, I've never quite understood how that type of scam was supposed to work or benefit him).

Yeah I get it, I just don’t really see the difference.

I’m sure there was a point in time where bernie Madoff genuinely intended to pay everybody back. Till the day he got arrested he probably “intended” to make it all work out.

The day Mueller decided to use stolen money to build pinball machines, it was a criminal enterprise that was never going to produce anything, regardless of whatever show he put on.

#28887 1 year ago

One is much more interesting, pathetic, and generates mountains of unneeded machinery, pinball junk, and half-baked nonsense. But yes, they do both result in precisely the same number of commercially-produced machines.

#28888 1 year ago

Really, when you consider all the pinball scams/failures that have happened, there seems to always have been intention to produce machines. However, there was a common trait of incompetence combined with "easy" money (pre-orders or little old ladies).

#28889 1 year ago

Going through the lots, a ton more unused playfield switches, rubbers, different solenoid plungers and mechs (looks like maybe some up posts, knockers, slings, etc), coin doors, etc
9F9171A0-00DC-42A9-96C6-F271FE785C3D (resized).jpeg9F9171A0-00DC-42A9-96C6-F271FE785C3D (resized).jpeg
Looks like a early foam core layout of a game we’ve seen in a more advance stage (which we were told was to be the Space Cadet/Gladiator, but it seems like they were mistaken based on the white wood that showed up yesterday)

In the middle I’m guessing is Nordmans Yukon Yeti. Several months ago he confirmed his white wood was leaning up against the wall in a photo. Pretty sure this is that wall

On the right yet another RAZA scrap playfield. Not sure about the far right.

#28890 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

In the middle I’m guessing is Nordmans Yukon Yeti

that VERY much looks like a sequel to whitewater. Waterfall ramp on the left, upper playfield with a flipper (looks like 2nd entrance dumps to the right return ramp instead of a whirlpool).
yukon_yeti (resized).pngyukon_yeti (resized).png
whitewater (resized).pngwhitewater (resized).png

Those stairs look like it could have been some sort of ball lift mech like the penguin racer toy

#28891 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

that VERY much looks like a sequel to whitewater. Waterfall ramp on the left, upper playfield with a flipper (looks like 2nd entrance dumps to the right return ramp instead of a whirlpool).
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Those stairs look like it could have been some sort of ball lift mech like the penguin racer toy

Agreed on the mech. Man it seems like that would slow the game down… maybe it worked as a physical ball lock?

Does DennisNordman feel like chiming in?

#28892 1 year ago

Also it looks like there was a mech to be under the right flipper? Not sure but something is on the cad sketch there. Nordman has had some creative ideas in drain areas (RIP physical Manos Hand of Fate wheel on EHOH)

#28893 1 year ago

IMHO the only way to do a complete pinball manufacturing center is to also contract out and manufacture for other companies for boards etc

Way to much investment on machines, mgmt and training

#28894 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Also it looks like there was a mech to be under the right flipper? Not sure but something is on the cad sketch there. Nordman has had some creative ideas in drain areas (RIP physical Manos Hand of Fate wheel on EHOH)

I feel like I remember a post at some point that showed a ball save kickback solenoid down near the drain, I guess to physically return your ball “from” the drain rather than plunging a new one for you. Pretty novel idea actually. I think that might be what’s shown here…

Edit: Yeah, here’s the post with a little virtual pinball mock-up, actually: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/521#post-6524408

#28895 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

More and more lots added each day. There are a lots of lots (we are now up to 380).
For years, some thought Robert was running a scam where he never actually intended to build anything. I disagreed, and this auction vindicates my position: Robert was a colossal idiot who had no idea what he was doing and constantly fucked everything up.

As Johnny Carson would say "Soo true, soo true"

#28896 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The rotating playfield thing is absolutely hilarious.
I can imagine Jpop’s hair getting stuck in it.

No doubt a Circus Voltaire reprise:

Circus Volt-hair. :>

#28898 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I also would like a deep root water bottle

I emailed the auctioneer asking if they had any deeproot branded items, but no response

16
#28899 1 year ago

I agree with BlueBerry - this was stupidity, not a scam.

Granted stupidity can create a scam, as this has, but in Blobert's mind this was going to work. This may be hard to grasp... that's because we are sane, reasonable people. Blobert isn't. We simply can't think like he does, just as he can't think as a smart businessperson does.

Had this been an outright scam he wouldn't have sunk so much money into capital investments. He would have set up shell companies and fed false invoices into them to convert "losses" into slush funds (maybe he did?)

And this pile of machines is nothing compared to what he spent on salaries. He offered real, competitive money not "but you get to work in pinball" money. Great benefits. That's how he snagged so many people.

And when I say "stupidity" what I mean is a bunch of personality disorders that combine to fog his ability to think intelligently. He has no logic and runs on emotion and beauty - which is why he was drawn to Zitware.

#28900 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Going through the lots, a ton more unused playfield switches, rubbers, different solenoid plungers and mechs (looks like maybe some up posts, knockers, slings, etc), coin doors, etc
[quoted image]
Looks like a early foam core layout of a game we’ve seen in a more advance stage (which we were told was to be the Space Cadet/Gladiator, but it seems like they were mistaken based on the white wood that showed up yesterday)
In the middle I’m guessing is Nordmans Yukon Yeti. Several months ago he confirmed his white wood was leaning up against the wall in a photo. Pretty sure this is that wall
On the right yet another RAZA scrap playfield. Not sure about the far right.

Jaysus Chroist, all those HOW many whitewood ideas? There's putting all your eggs in one basket and then there's trying to squeeze in an entire battery farm.

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