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Sampling of anonymized deeprootpinball.com user store credit balances. This is completely public information, btw.

No idea what percentage of users with store credit this list represents. TheCapn, does your data dump include this stuff?

$6,349.20
$5,915.60
$30.00
$150.00
$6,069.79
$2,740.00
$550.00
$6,574.00
$7,389.60

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Sampling of anonymized deeprootpinball.com user store credit balances. This is completely public information, btw.
No idea what percentage of users with store credit this list represents. TheCapn, does your data dump include this stuff?
$6,349.20
$5,915.60
$30.00
$150.00
$6,069.79
$2,740.00
$550.00
$6,574.00
$7,389.60

It’s still bonkers to me that someone told the web designer to include store credit on public user account pages. Like what was that conversation?

BREAKING NEWS!

It would appear our little discussions (Cary Hardy's of course included) have prompted some significant updates to deeprootpinball.com!

Screen Shot 2021-08-11 at 3.28.15 PM (resized).png

https://deeprootpinball.com/community/
Screen Shot 2021-08-11 at 3.31.03 PM (resized).png

https://deeprootpinball.com/community/leaderboards
Screen Shot 2021-08-11 at 3.31.29 PM (resized).png

https://deeprootpinball.com/community/users
Screen Shot 2021-08-11 at 3.31.46 PM (resized).png

https://deeprootpinball.com/community/homebrew
Screen Shot 2021-08-11 at 3.33.28 PM (resized).png

Good for user data security? Potentially (Data could still be exposed without these pages being online).

Soul-crushing for homebrewers dreaming of deeproot utilizing its manufacturing capabilities and expertise to bring their games to commercial life? Probably so

You’d think they’d also take down some of the other embarrassing stuff if they’re going to take down the homebrew page

That was probably my favorite “they don’t know what they’re doing” page. It was more straight up “if pinside ran a pinball company” nonsense.

Probably for the best.

The average homebrew is better and gets done faster than RAZA.

Quoted from TreyBo69:
You’d think they’d also take down some of the other embarrassing stuff if they’re going to take down the homebrew page
That was probably my favorite “they don’t know what they’re doing” page. It was more straight up “if pinside ran a pinball company” nonsense.

I think it sadly got the axe simply by virtue of being a sub url of https://deeprootpinball.com/community/.

Assuming that's the case, perhaps Robert would demand it back online if we notified him of the unintended casualty?

Quoted from TheCapn:
I have been getting a lot of messages today. Understandable. Thought I would inform everyone that the ability to access this data from their website was acknowledged back in December of last year. This was their response when told how it was obtained:
"Thank you for letting us know. We definitely do not intend to show that information. I have passed it on to IT to promptly correct. Thank you!"
Again, December and the website is still vulnerable? I have had this data for months! My intent? Absolutely nothing. I was only obtaining it to counter a possible exaggeration of their sales of the game. Once they announced '122' I glanced at the data and assumed it to be around that amount. Then I forgot all about it. I understand why some of you would feel a violation of privacy, but please understand this wasn't meant to cause harm. I couldn't care less about this data. I forgot I even had it. For you buyers ease of mind there is no financial data available. If there was something like that I would have been a siren to make sure it got fixed, but since the data was very moderate and what I believe to be useless I didn't think to follow up (nor should I have to if they actually had an IT department). The information obtained:
Game #
First Name
Last Name
deeproot login ID (some of use your Pinside ID I noticed)
Email Address
Game Model
Serial # (all serials begin either with RZX or RZA - depending on your purchase)
I'm not releasing this information - it can die with the company. I apologize if this has caused you any worry - hopefully this post can help with your questions.

Wouldn’t First Name, Last Name, and Email Address count as ‘PII’ (Personally Identifiable Information)?

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
BREAKING NEWS!
It would appear our little discussions (Cary Hardy's of course included) have prompted some significant updates to deeprootpinball.com!

Nice to know someone at the conglomerate is a fan of Pinside & Youtube.

I banged out a homebrew conversion in a month. I think I nailed the JPop vibe. Get me an artist to draw some Draculas and we’ll outsell RAZA. Give me money now please deeproot

D41A5820-1071-4A49-8090-7FFFE370580B.gif

Speaking of Dracula...

Theory: Part of John's mental challenge is being hated by his hero (Python). Thus the remake of Cyclone (a game he had in his "shop" BTW)

That's why Dracula is in a game about Retro Atomic Zombies. Because there was a Dracula in Cyclone.

Dude is a hack.

Quoted from benheck:
Speaking of Dracula...
Theory: Part of John's mental challenge is being hated by his hero (Python). Thus the remake of Cyclone (a game he had in his "shop" BTW)
That's why Dracula is in a game about Retro Atomic Zombies. Because there was a Dracula in Cyclone.
Dude is a hack.

He also did TOM while Capcom did Magic under Python’s direction. Which honestly might have been a coincidence, although Python mentioned having found the designer who came up with the magic wand mech before Capcom started. So who really knows when the idea of a modern magic pinball first came up.

But a circus game after Python’s pet circus project failed to materialize at Williams? Hmm

This is my cat Xiao Shagua. She told me that the gamblers who put deposit money down on RAZA would have had much better odds in Vegas.

WeChat Image_20191229190728 (resized).jpg

Quoted from Jjsmooth:
69 would be SO much cooler

That's what she said....

Quoted from Viggin900:
Uncanny!
[quoted image]

Neither has finished the job!

Quoted from jonesjb:
Wouldn’t First Name, Last Name, and Email Address count as ‘PII’ (Personally Identifiable Information)?

It is a very mild amount of PII. Still enough to positively identify someone because of the email address, but mostly benign and not enough to trigger credit monitoring or anything.

So the most interesting question still to answer here is did DR not build games because they:

a) ran out of money
b) kept trying to find someone to bail them out or buy the company
c) have had a secret build lair where oompa-loompahs have been diligently working on them day and night
d) don’t have any staff left to put them together
e) PinBar and UL are insurmountable obstacles that we just don’t understand
f) desperately want to show us their manufacturing but are legally prevented from doing so.
g) Marco won’t sell them parts anymore
h) need a bigger warehouse to undertake a project of this magnitude.
i) waiting to hire VP of manufacturing - everyone else still working there only has a title of art director.
j) the company dog ate their build documents.
k) Stern and JJP paid them good money not to build anything so they don’t have to compete.

Quoted from pookycade:
So the most interesting question still to answer here is did DR not build games because they:
a) ran out of money
b) kept trying to find someone to bail them out or buy the company
c) have had a secret build lair where oompa-loompahs have been diligently working on them day and night
d) don’t have any staff left to put them together
e) PinBar and UL are insurmountable obstacles that we just don’t understand
f) desperately want to show us their manufacturing but are legally prevented from doing so.
g) Marco won’t sell them parts anymore
h) need a bigger warehouse to undertake a project of this magnitude.
i) waiting to hire VP of manufacturing - everyone else still working there only has a title of art director.
j) the company dog ate their build documents.
k) Stern and JJP paid them good money not to build anything so they don’t have to compete.

L) They (RM) never really planned to build games in the first place.

Quoted from RCA1:
L) They (RM) never really planned to build games in the first place.

I am going with RM planned to but was never really capable of.
Typical finance guy that thinks he can run a business just becuase he made a lot of money evaluating other businesses

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:
I am going with RM planned to but was never really capable of.
Typical finance guy that thinks he can run a business just becuase he made a lot of money evaluating other businesses

I think RM definitely started out this way, but I also think there was a point in time where RM admitted to himself things couldn't be saved. I believe that with JPOP/Zidware too.

All the lying and fake shit after that point is intentional and malicious.

Man, there are some serious blind eyes being turned to what is going on with DR, in that 'other' thread. I guess folks think it is impossible that this isn't going to work out, despite the 9999 warnings out there.

Quoted from Capn12:
Man, there are some serious blind eyes being turned to what is going on with DR, in that 'other' thread. I guess folks think it is impossible that this isn't going to work out, despite the 9999 warnings out there.

What's crazy is RM has proven incapable of any sort of deadline, and all of a sudden he's believable when he says these legal matters will be resolved quickly?

Supply chains are tough especially for integrated circuits. AP (another company tricked into existence by Jpoop) has a CPU surcharge now.

But they're not IMPOSSIBLE. No legit reason DR couldn't have 122 cabs, coin doors, PFs, backbones, wire harnesses... A pile of skulls on a kitchen counter.

Again I think they don't show things because when it does fail the photos could be seen as fraud (false CONfidence)

Quoted from RCA1:
L) They (RM) never really planned to build games in the first place.

Agreed add L to the list. For RM to hark on manufacturing so much from the beginning and then take 0 effort to setting up anything, I don’t think he ever intended to build them. Also he would have hired a heavyweight procurement / supply chain specialist to standup a system and order parts for the first run. Lack of any evidence of this or of a position being filled and RM’s lack of action supports this theory.

BTW dr is intended to be an assembly operation, not a manufacturer. They wouldn’t manufacture anything, rather they would purchase parts and components and then they would assemble, test and package games. Stern, CGC, Spooky, American Pinball and JJP are true manufacturers as they produce various components of a final build.

Quoted from Capn12:
Man, there are some serious blind eyes being turned to what is going on with DR, in that 'other' thread.

They are definitely in the denial stage over in the pre-order thread. "Hang in there guys, this is far from over!".

Manufacturing spin up should have happened in parallel with the design.

The fact that it didn't (even despite the game being nearly 2 years late) tells me the intention WAS INDEED Zidware 2.0. Make a bunch of flashy shit and hope someone buys you out. Hence the "pitch deck" on the big reveal.

Obviously no one bit. Two options: fold or actually build the thing. I know not planning to actually build it baffles us sane folk but if that was what DR did, and they only started manufacturing spin up in January, then the delays make sense.

Even if that were the case, why start a line just to close it down? Unless it's more valuable to make the RAZAs, even at a great loss than to not make them.

Again, don't mistake incompetence for malice.

The inner machinations of Robert's mind are an enigma.

tumblr_m2m3vvLy9r1r0f8s0o1_400.gif

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
BTW dr is intended to be an assembly operation, not a manufacturer. They wouldn’t manufacture anything, rather they would purchase parts and components and then they would assemble, test and package games. Stern, CGC, Spooky, American Pinball and JJP are true manufacturers as they produce various components of a final build.

I think you have it backwards.

Deeproot claimed they were going to build everything top to bottom in house in their "heavy manufacturing area". Boards, playfield parts, everything.

Stern and the rest of the manufacturers buy most of the parts they use from outside suppliers. Stern makes very little in house. They don't make ramps, posts, coils, inserts, ball troughs, etc. Stern is an assembly line, not a part manufacturer.

Has anyone fired up their pinaccess app recently? Curious to know if it's still working as well as ever following the removal of the community components from deeprootpinball.com.

Screenshot_20210812-055702 (resized).png

Also curious if the horrible thing that's happening to the pinball machine in the pinaccess logo ends up spreading to their iphone. I'm hoping not. If it does, that's one thing I'll have to weigh when deciding to install the app or not after they create an Android version.

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Has anyone fired up their pinaccess app recently? Curious to know if it's still working as well as ever following the removal of the community components from deeprootpinball.com.
[quoted image]
Also curious if the horrible thing that's happening to the pinball machine in the pinaccess logo ends up spreading to their iphone. I'm hoping not. If it does, that's one thing I'll have to weigh when deciding to install the app or not after they create an Android version.

I could never get it to do anything because they closed down new account registration sometime ago.

It doesn't ask for any weird privacy permissions though. Maybe if I could get past the registration/login it would.

Quoted from JodyG:
I think you have it backwards.
Deeproot claimed they were going to build everything top to bottom in house in their "heavy manufacturing area". Boards, playfield parts, everything.
Stern and the rest of the manufacturers buy most of the parts they use from outside suppliers. Stern makes very little in house. They don't make ramps, posts, coils, inserts, ball troughs, etc. Stern is an assembly line, not a part manufacturer.

I think the only thing Stern makes in house are the playfields. They also make some of the packing materials because it's a better use of space instead of storing a bunch of foam.

If you go back to JPop interviews circa 2012 it seemed like he intended to make most things in house. Hell, he was talking about redesigning star posts and 3D printing them for production games. This is the guy who's been in Robert's ear the whole time...

…and here is a cwoot widdle pwuppy sniffing today’s round of fragrances. Seems like Dior Vetiver wins the day.

42966FB2-7FF0-49E9-8552-2460F79C1C33 (resized).jpeg

Quoted from TreyBo69:
If you go back to JPop interviews circa 2012 it seemed like he intended to make most things in house. Hell, he was talking about redesigning star posts and 3D printing them for production games.

Biggest red flag moment (of many) when I visited the Zidware shop was John proudly showing off a coil bracket he redesigned to incorporate a cutout Z logo.

Quoted from yancy:
Biggest red flag moment (of many) when I visited the Zidware shop was John proudly showing off a coil bracket he redesigned to incorporate a cutout Z logo.

Seems like the obvious choice of where to spend your resources...

Quoted from NicoVolta:
…and here is a cwoot widdle pwuppy sniffing today’s round of fragrances. Seems like Dior Vetiver wins the day.
[quoted image]

Is this selection process a part of your morning routine?

Quoted from TreyBo69:
I could never get it to do anything because they closed down new account registration sometime ago.
It doesn't ask for any weird privacy permissions though.

I'm afraid if you read the fine print, you'll discover that by installing the app you are now legally obligated to give jpop a job and Starbucks gift card.

Does anyone here remember the pinsider that kept posting, I’ve seen magic girl, I’ve played it! It’s 90% complete!
He kept shouting this from the rooftops until pintasia showed up. Looked at the game. Got an outside contractor to do emergency ramp builds, the team spent several sleepless nights transporting, and working on the prototype just to get a basic flipping game to work at the northwest show.

You all remember that? I sure do.
As soon as the pintasia team outed the mouth, he slithered away and closed his pinside account.

Now we have the same thing going on again over at the jpop suck fest thread.

Rarehero is completely correct. Deeproot is a cult.

Everyone that went in on this obvious scam deserves what they get.
The only folks that aren’t deserving are the original zidware claimants.

From then on the evidence was clear.
Jpop is a fraud.
He can’t design shit.

And he keeps conning others that he is the real deal.
He’s not.
#endjpopforgood.

Quoted from BillySastard:
They are definitely in the denial stage over in the pre-order thread. "Hang in there guys, this is far from over!".

Yup - Holy cow. There are a few that won't believe it without a official death certificate. The only thing that is far from over is coming to grips with the realization their monies spent are gone. Probably doesn't help one guy keeps telling them there's a chance that Jesus or somebody is going to resurrect this version of zidware 2.0 / rootfungus or buy it, contract it or some other horse hockey. Nobody would touch it with a 10 foot pole. Jpop and Root have so much stench and stink. And the Raza game stunk too to start with. What are people thinking ? Dumpster fire and trainwreck all in one.

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Yup - Holy cow. There are a few that won't believe it without a official death certificate. The only thing that is far from over is coming to grips with the realization their monies spent are gone. Probably doesn't help one guy keeps telling them there's a chance that Jesus or somebody is going to resurrect this version of zidware 2.0 / rootfungus or buy it, contract it or some other horse hockey. Nobody would touch it with a 10 foot pole. Jpop and Root have so much stench and stink. And the Raza game stunk too to start with. What are people thinking ? Dumpster fire and trainwreck all in one.

People were saying the same thing about Magic Girl. "The owners will collaborate and get this game finished!!!"

THey got traded around for a few months steadily losing value and creating depressing, anticlimatic streams where you could see the "lucky owners'" souls die a little with each stuck ball on this turkey they'd just laid out $20K for...and that was kind of the last we heard of it.

Some thing, while possible, are just never going to happen. You would have to redesign these lemons from the ground up to ever turn them into something as dazzling as Breakshot, and it's never going to happen.

Quoted from NoQuarters:
Dumpster fire and trainwreck all in one

Its a musical shit show number inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck that derailed off an overpass and caused a 80 car pile up on I-95 while a Boeing 777 was making a crash landing in the median...

Quoted from benheck:
The fact that it didn't (even despite the game being nearly 2 years late) tells me the intention WAS INDEED Zidware 2.0. Make a bunch of flashy shit and hope someone buys you out. Hence the "pitch deck" on the big reveal.

The writing was on the the wall from the start... remember how they were going to revolutionize pinball assembly because you really didn't need to do all that crap everyone else was doing? As if RM was the chosen one who had this revelation that debunked all existing manufacturing constructs? And how they... would build more than anyone else with this secret process?

It stunk as bad as it does now all the way back on the day he said it - but people were willing to 'wait and see'.

The story of how many games they were working on simultaneously is all the sign you needed to know they were positioning themselves to be an asset to buy - not a company looking to produce all that stuff.

Really there hasn't been any new revelations that were like "oh wow, that's a turn that sunk them..." -- The pitch was called out as bullshit at the start - most just didn't want to hear it. The only things that have come out since are just elements that show just how much worse the core problems were...

- Burn rates that were ridiculous... then he boasts about it as if it's a sign of strength
- Milestones that were blown time and time again... to be replaced by even more bogus milestones
- Details that showed just how thinly spread they were
- The double-dog-dare boasting increasing instead of decreasing
- The lack of effective leadership for product delivery

It's like looking at something and saying "man, I don't see how that will work" and then letting it play out and seeing "well actually, that's a full on trainwreck"

Doomed from the start to ever be an actual pinball producer - I think it is clear he wanted to be an asset that someone else saw value in and would buy. But again, no clue what outside industry he thought would swoop in and buy into pinball assets.

The one big curveball he did throw out was all the White Knight stuff that he actually backed up with someone else's money. I didn't predict actual money going out.. but in those early phases some did. I do think it was more a legal move, but it did seem fed by some ego as well trying to establish credibility for robert.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
People were saying the same thing about Magic Girl. "The owners will collaborate and get this game finished!!!"
THey got traded around for a few months steadily losing value and creating depressing, anticlimatic streams where you could see the "lucky owners'" souls die a little with each stuck ball on this turkey they'd just laid out $20K for...and that was kind of the last we heard of it.
Some thing, while possible, are just never going to happen. You would have to redesign these lemons from the ground up to ever turn them into something as dazzling as Breakshot, and it's never going to happen.

Allegedly a few owners did manage to make a few working Magic Girls. They haven't showed off much yet, so let your imagination run wild.

Quoted from Bublehead:
Its a musical shit show number inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck that derailed off an overpass and caused a 80 car pile up on I-95 while a Boeing 777 was making a crash landing in the median...

And some kind of unsolvable math story problem something like we did in school...

And man with somebody else's money buy's how many animators and puts them on train traveling to Texas at 0 mph to meet a non existent pile of parts traveling in the other direction on a tug boat locked in the Suzez canal. John drinks coffee each day for years. How many pinball machines are produced ?

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
something as dazzling as Breakshot

This has been your best line in months...

Uncanny!

SmartSelect_20210812-131426_Gallery (resized).jpg

Don’t forget wiring harnesses - Stern cornered the market on building a unique harness for every title rather than a universal design lol. Maybe that is considered an assembled product. Stern probably makes some ramps, metal guide and their own plastics? Plus they “make” their own major assemblies.

These are our beagles; Scooby and his nephew Scrappy.

They are smart because they never considered going in on a RAZA.

Not even for a box of Scooby snacks!!!
DDDD3867-B8F6-465D-A40D-2EAB58AB802A (resized).jpeg

Did someone say Scooby snacks???
65D6402B-A08A-4771-8CA5-4B654A77733E (resized).jpeg

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
Don’t forget wiring harnesses - Stern cornered the market on building a unique harness for every title rather than a universal design lol. Maybe that is considered an assembled product. Stern probably makes some ramps, metal guide and their own plastics? Plus they “make” their own major assemblies.

Stern doesn't make plastic ramps. I know who they use for that. They don't laser cut their own metal ramps. They may bend material into shape using the precut metal parts, but thats more assembly...not manufacture.

Quoted from JodyG:
Stern doesn't make plastic ramps. I know who they use for that. They don't laser cut their own metal ramps. They may bend material into shape using the precut metal parts, but thats more assembly...not manufacture.

Anyone who understands manufacturing knows that it is pretty much putting other peoples parts that you buy into a coherent whole to make a new product. Really it just becomes a game of having a parts list, having a build process, and following said build process to get to product. The only wildcard is software which usually has to be done in house. Even pcb manufacture (and often design) is subcontracted. Anyone who thought they were going to make individual parts themselves for RAZA was insane. All molds would usually be outsourced too. It is stunning to think just how many dollars were wasted here. They reinvented the wheel and spent a fortune doing so. They also apparently spent nothing on actually doing any documentation, preparing a BOM, procuring suppliers….you know all the things a manufacturer does. At some level this is just abject lack of knowledge of what a pinball company does for a living.

Quoted from flynnibus:
The writing was on the the wall from the start... remember how they were going to revolutionize pinball assembly because you really didn't need to do all that crap everyone else was doing? As if RM was the chosen one who had this revelation that debunked all existing manufacturing constructs? And how they... would build more than anyone else with this secret process?
It stunk as bad as it does now all the way back on the day he said it - but people were willing to 'wait and see'.
The story of how many games they were working on simultaneously is all the sign you needed to know they were positioning themselves to be an asset to buy - not a company looking to produce all that stuff.
Really there hasn't been any new revelations that were like "oh wow, that's a turn that sunk them..." -- The pitch was called out as bullshit at the start - most just didn't want to hear it. The only things that have come out since are just elements that show just how much worse the core problems were...
- Burn rates that were ridiculous... then he boasts about it as if it's a sign of strength
- Milestones that were blown time and time again... to be replaced by even more bogus milestones
- Details that showed just how thinly spread they were
- The double-dog-dare boasting increasing instead of decreasing
- The lack of effective leadership for product delivery
It's like looking at something and saying "man, I don't see how that will work" and then letting it play out and seeing "well actually, that's a full on trainwreck"
Doomed from the start to ever be an actual pinball producer - I think it is clear he wanted to be an asset that someone else saw value in and would buy. But again, no clue what outside industry he thought would swoop in and buy into pinball assets.
The one big curveball he did throw out was all the White Knight stuff that he actually backed up with someone else's money. I didn't predict actual money going out.. but in those early phases some did. I do think it was more a legal move, but it did seem fed by some ego as well trying to establish credibility for robert.

Agree with basically all of this except the part about the goal being to never build anything and instead get acquired. It's a reasonable assumption based on how time and money has been spent, but I don't think it's the case. I just think he has no fucking idea what he's doing.

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Agree with basically all of this except the part about the goal being to never build anything and instead get acquired. It's a reasonable assumption based on how time and money has been spent, but I don't think it's the case. I just think he has no fucking idea what he's doing.

This. Robert was consistent in that he planned to manufacture

If was trying to get bought out, why would he have talked mad trash about all of the manufacturers who might have been interested in his wares?

Spooky has built some games designed out of house. American Pinball allegedly might soon. Stern has their relationship with Ka-Pow (and in the dark days, Ritchie and Lawlor were heads of independent design firms). There is room in the industry to be a design firm. It's just incredibly difficult to make that a cost attractive proposition for most manufacturers

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deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

5 years ago

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