(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

4 years ago


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#30201 84 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Completely unfounded crackpot theory: these insurance policies are a horrible deal at the bid price, but Robert hoodwinked snack guy just like everyone else. Snack guy thinks this insider information is the deal of the century, but it would actually bankrupt him. Pinside "death saved" his ass.

It would be like Robert to screw one more person.

#30202 84 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

"We will do time"
Mueller gonna put Pinside in jail.

Ha - thanks for the catch

#30203 84 days ago
Quoted from DudeRegular:

Turner came in making roberts website. That may indicate Turner has some intimate knowledge of the whole shebang.

With Robert's ego its not difficult to imagine him bragging while getting inebriated at Baskin-Robbins.

#30204 84 days ago

I notice someone asked about computer/servers. I believe they used google drive, Microsoft office products as well as local servers. Turner Logic had a server setup for the machine code but I'm not sure were it's physical location was. The were atleast two local servers on site, one for financial stuff and the other for CAD/ENG data.

Quoted from Inside:

They were (probably) renting office space for DR

The building was leased to Robert. I was speculating they got notice to pack up and go before anyone else did. Assuming that it would not be in the interest of the landlord to let anyone in the building after doors closed. Even if the renters of the renters are in the clear, removing equipment that is being used as leverage for rent money would seem to encourage tenants to not pay rent.

At any rate TL definitely had access to the software, even after the building closed since their equipmet/office were cleared out.

#30205 84 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

TL would presumably not own any work, IP, hardware, or whatever else paid for by deeproot. So eventually the trustee will need to 1) figure out what all of that stuff is 2) where it is 3) how to get it, and 4) how to liquidate it (for the best return for the creditors, mind you).

And of course Robert purposefully barely documented any of his expenses or kept receipts of what he bought

12
#30206 84 days ago

Me after seeing a whole page of this thread being entered into evidence:

ezgif.com-gif-maker.gif
#30207 84 days ago
Quoted from theFeels:

The building was leased to Robert..

Yes sorry, I meant "from" DR, not "for" DR.

Anyway, the TL equipment status is not shady. Was there a court order that required DR to not touch any of their stuff? If so, I doubt that it applied to TL equipment.

#30208 84 days ago
Quoted from pudealee:

Will RM see any time in the pokey after all of the SEC & Bankruptcy stuff is done?

Depends on what he might be found guilty of, but assuming he gets convicted of some of the most serious of the charges, he would probably serve a very short sentence of less than 5 years...most likely 2 or 3 in club-fed with a lengthy probation. Non-Person crimes are low on the priority for lengthy incarceration. If the feds are going through all of the trouble to prosecute the case, they are going to want some incarceration time, but sadly, even the amounts involved here are on the lower end of the spectrum for big financial crimes these days. Robert will keep this ball in court for as long as there is any money to be had by the legal team, and then once that runs out, he will likely end up settling for some plea agreement to a fraction of the listed charges, serve 20 or 30 months and then be saddled with some kind of restitution that will never get paid.

#30209 84 days ago

Listened to the CrazyLevi podcast today and it was an excellent summary!

12
#30210 84 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Key post + milestone: Pinside has officially entered the chat.
[quoted image]

pasted_image (resized).png
#30211 84 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Key post + milestone: Pinside has officially entered the chat.
[quoted image]

Has the term “Mueller is a fucking douche bag” officially entered the legal record?

#30212 84 days ago

Shock of the century: the trustee did not receive any other bids to compete with the one from TuYo.

deeprootcapital-95-2022.04.05.pdf

So it would seem the fate of the sale going through or not will come down to whether the Honorable Judge Parker is persuaded by the sewer-exhibit-containing objection filed earlier today.

22
#30213 84 days ago

Wish I could be a fly on the wall as the judge scrolls through several pages of Pinside memes & shitposts.

#30214 84 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Wish I could be a fly on the wall as the judge scrolls through several pages of Pinside memes & shitposts.

We joked about how lawyers have to read through all this crap. I'm sure they love the key post feature, which probably needs some cleaning up at some point.

11
#30215 84 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

We joked about how lawyers have to read through all this crap. I'm sure they love the key post feature, which probably needs some cleaning up at some point.

And on that point, here's the actual quote from Robert about Turner Logic from a This Week in Pinball interview in January 2018 that is referenced in Exhibit 15 but which I hadn't screenshotted. In case it's helpful to any judges or lawyers:

Screen Shot 2022-04-05 at 8.59.30 AM (resized).png

Source: https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-new-home-new-hires-5-days-deeproot-exclusive-follow-interview

#30216 84 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Wish I could be a fly on the wall as the judge scrolls through several pages of Pinside memes & shitposts.

judge: who is this blobert character?
robert Mueller: PLEAD THE 5TH!

#30217 84 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Wish I could be a fly on the wall as the judge scrolls through several pages of Pinside memes & shitposts.

What if he ends up getting into pinball LOL

#30218 84 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Completely unfounded crackpot theory: these insurance policies are a horrible deal at the bid price, but Robert hoodwinked snack guy just like everyone else. Snack guy thinks this insider information is the deal of the century, but it would actually bankrupt him. Pinside "death saved" his ass.

That’s possible. I mean, he probably learned a lot from JPop.

Remember when he managed to con WC Brandes into buying magic girl and the rest of the useless IP for god knows how much?

12
#30219 84 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

judge: who is this blobert character?
robert Mueller: PLEAD THE 5TH!

The Judge: Is this "JPOOP" person going to be testifying? Also, is Ben Heck actually giving out legal advice!?

#30220 84 days ago
Quoted from theFeels:I notice someone asked about computer/servers. I believe they used google drive, Microsoft office products as well as local servers. Turner Logic had a server setup for the machine code but I'm not sure were it's physical location was. The were atleast two local servers on site, one for financial stuff and the other for CAD/ENG data.

The building was leased to Robert. I was speculating they got notice to pack up and go before anyone else did. Assuming that it would not be in the interest of the landlord to let anyone in the building after doors closed. Even if the renters of the renters are in the clear, removing equipment that is being used as leverage for rent money would seem to encourage tenants to not pay rent.
At any rate TL definitely had access to the software, even after the building closed since their equipmet/office were cleared out.

Deeproot would have been given demand letters by the Landlord demanding payment. Once the notice period deadline has passed, the Landlord changes locks and retakes possession. While the Landlord has no claim against goods and equipment belonging to outside parties, if said goods get locked inside, it can be a pain getting them back. The outside party will have to prove ownership etc.....Deeproot knew that the landlord would be coming....

10
#30221 83 days ago

Is somebody able to refresh our memory about Chris Turner paying premiums to keep these policies in force even though at that point he had ZERO ownership? I recall a mention that the judge sounded impressed at that when Tuyo put in its bid for purchase. I hope that perhaps the judge will rethink that sentiment given this objection. Perhaps Turner paying those premiums with no obvious benefit to him really indicates there is more to this story that needs attention.

13
#30222 83 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

here's the actual quote from Robert about Turner Logic

"Like everything else with the project, nearly all of the innovations and designs are my own."

Pure gold.

#30223 83 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

And on that point, here's the actual quote from Robert about Turner Logic from a This Week in Pinball interview in January 2018 that is referenced in Exhibit 15 but which I hadn't screenshotted. In case it's helpful to any judges or lawyers:
[quoted image]
Source: https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-new-home-new-hires-5-days-deeproot-exclusive-follow-interview

Designed the financial system that didn’t keep any records and ripped off a bunch of senior citizens to the tune of $60M.

Fucking ringing endorsement if you ask me.

38
#30224 83 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That’s possible. I mean, he probably learned a lot from JPop.
Remember when he managed to con WC Brandes into buying magic girl and the rest of the useless IP for god knows how much?

Where do you get your information lol, I'm right here, you can talk to me anytime!
Don't worry Levi I was a big boy and paid absolutely 0 for the IP and the ability to take control to figure out if it was viable or not....ok not 0 but just enough for a Starbucks Grande Latte so the contract would stick lol . I don't believe I ever asked for any money from anyone, just to sign off on John and law suits so as to give time and by time meaning time to pry the books and the machine out from under Jpop who would not let anyone take that machine or books out the door for now obvious reasons. Also to get it in the hands of capable engineers and pinball people who know much much more than me, and as soon as we all went through it in a garage, close to a show, we pulled the plug immediately. Was there costs to getting the thing out of JPOPs hands and into competent hands ...yes, however it was worth every penny to do so to either make a run with an already big player building and selling games or stop the madness of a man that was seemingly taking money with no plans to manufacture. This "he has money so he thinks he is smarter than everyone else" crap has to stop. what I was smart at is business and getting control of his, thus surrounding myself with people who were and still are much smarter than me in design, engineering and manufacturing of pinball machines to determine just exactly what Jpop had wasted our money on. Please never put me in a category with blobert who was rich with everyone's money but his own! I also enjoyed your podcast as you have more knowledge of pinball than I ever hope to have but will always sit down with you and have a beer no matter how divided or different you think we are lol

#30225 83 days ago

Turncoat Logic wouldn't just have to buy the policies but continue to service them until the geezers died. So the overall cost is even higher - perhaps they acquired loans to accomplish this?

There's also the very real possibility that these policies are being bought back with the same pool of money, ie Turncoat Losers got paid big bucks to make code and used said money to make this bid.

#30226 83 days ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Where do you get your information lol, I'm right here, you can talk to me anytime!
Don't worry Levi I was a big boy and paid absolutely 0 for the IP and the ability to take control to figure out if it was viable or not....ok not 0 but just enough for a Starbucks Grande Latte so the contract would stick lol . I don't believe I ever asked for any money from anyone, just to sign off on John and law suits so as to give time and by time meaning time to pry the books and the machine out from under Jpop who would not let anyone take that machine or books out the door for now obvious reasons. Also to get it in the hands of capable engineers and pinball people who know much much more than me, and as soon as we all went through it in a garage, close to a show, we pulled the plug immediately. Was there costs to getting the thing out of JPOPs hands and into competent hands ...yes, however it was worth every penny to do so to either make a run with an already big player building and selling games or stop the madness of a man that was seemingly taking money with no plans to manufacture. This "he has money so he thinks he is smarter than everyone else" crap has to stop. what I was smart at is business and getting control of his, thus surrounding myself with people who were and still are much smarter than me in design, engineering and manufacturing of pinball machines to determine just exactly what Jpop had wasted our money on. Please never put me in a category with blobert who was rich with everyone's money but his own! I also enjoyed your podcast as you have more knowledge of pinball than I ever hope to have but will always sit down with you and have a beer no matter how divided or different you think we are lol

everytime you post i respect you a little more. i cant imagine how longer jpop would have noodled had nobody pulled back the curtain

#30227 83 days ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Where do you get your information lol, I'm right here, you can talk to me anytime!
Don't worry Levi I was a big boy and paid absolutely 0 for the IP and the ability to take control to figure out if it was viable or not....ok not 0 but just enough for a Starbucks Grande Latte so the contract would stick lol . I don't believe I ever asked for any money from anyone, just to sign off on John and law suits so as to give time and by time meaning time to pry the books and the machine out from under Jpop who would not let anyone take that machine or books out the door for now obvious reasons. Also to get it in the hands of capable engineers and pinball people who know much much more than me, and as soon as we all went through it in a garage, close to a show, we pulled the plug immediately. Was there costs to getting the thing out of JPOPs hands and into competent hands ...yes, however it was worth every penny to do so to either make a run with an already big player building and selling games or stop the madness of a man that was seemingly taking money with no plans to manufacture. This "he has money so he thinks he is smarter than everyone else" crap has to stop. what I was smart at is business and getting control of his, thus surrounding myself with people who were and still are much smarter than me in design, engineering and manufacturing of pinball machines to determine just exactly what Jpop had wasted our money on. Please never put me in a category with blobert who was rich with everyone's money but his own! I also enjoyed your podcast as you have more knowledge of pinball than I ever hope to have but will always sit down with you and have a beer no matter how divided or different you think we are lol

Thanks for shedding some light on what you did. I don’t think I put you in Robert’s class - I thought I was pretty clear in that you weren’t, and were just another victim of the scam. I think I called you a wealthy enthusiast which is true, right? And made it clear you weren’t trying to scam anybody nor steal any money, just trying to pull this dead horse over the finish line. I DEFINETLY said “not putting him in the class” of rich pinball cult leaders like RMule!

And It sounds like i got the main details right regardless.

Pm me if you want to say anything on the exciting conclusion podcast, whenever that may be!

#30228 83 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Thanks for shedding some light on what you did. I don’t think I put you in Robert’s class - I thought I was pretty clear in that you weren’t, and were just another victim of the scam. I think I called you a wealthy enthusiast which is true, right? And made it clear you weren’t trying to scam anybody nor steal any money, just trying to pull this dead horse over the finish line.
Pm me if you want to say anything on the exciting conclusion podcast, whenever that may be!

Every time you post I respect Bill B. a little more!

#30229 83 days ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I was smart at business and getting control of his, then surrounding myself with pinball design, engineering and manufacturing people to determine exactly what Jpop wasted our money on.

And you have always looked smart in your Pinside avatar picture, too.

#30230 83 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

And you have always looked smart in your Pinside avatar picture, too.

Well how do you really think I pried the company away from Jpop for virtually nothing?

#30231 83 days ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Well how do you really think I pried the company away from Jpop for virtually nothing?

Transferring your Starbucks points to John's account?

#30232 83 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Transferring your Starbucks points to John's account?

ya know, that should have been my back up plan!

13
#30233 83 days ago

Some more photos of the Black Hole playfield. I would strongly wager this was just a mock-up and the intent was a moving playfield, though this one is screwed in place since no mech to move it was probably ever made. I also speculate that the standup targets would have been able to raise and lower into the playfield, to allow for the ball to roll over them “standard” play to hit ramps and stuff. The two stand ups in the middle would’ve been blocked by the u-turn shot though.

DE448D5D-986B-44E9-A838-130954213A35.jpeg17EFAA02-D669-4DDF-8163-6F73EB57B9D0.jpeg97ED7BB1-948D-4CD2-A4B1-D831E3B000E1.jpegBD707BEF-C845-4178-B847-90B89A0929EC.jpeg086E61F3-AAD6-412F-82AC-80A1B8B0C07A.jpeg278F3B0D-F99B-4FC8-9C86-F6A79A8406B0.jpegE7977ABC-8165-46CB-AB44-7A556AD9FB56.jpeg
20
#30234 83 days ago

greatwichjohn will have that up and running in no time if you reach out to him...

#30235 83 days ago

Looks like there is heavy dimpling in the turntable portion, where balls would have dropped out of the VUK return. Which implies that thing might have actually been hooked up and playtested at one point... (?!) or could manually rolling balls off the VUK lane have caused that kind of dimpling so easily?

#30236 83 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Some more photos of the Black Hole playfield. I would strongly wager this was just a mock-up and the intent was a moving playfield, though this one is screwed in place since no mech to move it was probably ever made. I also speculate that the standup targets would have been able to raise and lower into the playfield, to allow for the ball to roll over them “standard” play to hit ramps and stuff. The two stand ups in the middle would’ve been blocked by the u-turn shot though.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

My first thought was the turntable would rotate 180 degrees, then the flippers would line up like a normal pin. But then the path to the upper PF was pretty much blocked.

Rotated 180 degrees below.
pasted_image (resized).png

#30237 83 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Some more photos of the Black Hole playfield. I would strongly wager this was just a mock-up and the intent was a moving playfield, though this one is screwed in place since no mech to move it was probably ever made. I also speculate that the standup targets would have been able to raise and lower into the playfield, to allow for the ball to roll over them “standard” play to hit ramps and stuff. The two stand ups in the middle would’ve been blocked by the u-turn shot though.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Of all the deep root mock ups, this is the most audacious, outrageous, and ridiculous. It probably would have been a Terrible game but it’s sure got chutzpa.

One is reminded of Williams’ Nags of course.

#30238 83 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

But then the path to the upper PF was pretty much blocked.
Rotated 180 degrees below.
[quoted image]

Hence why I speculate the standup targets would be able raise/lower, like the stand ups in AFM or others. We got at least one mock-up of a mech like that (though I’m not sure why, since the mech already exists and so much of these are built with Williams and Stern parts from PBL and Marco).

That horseshoe does block a lot more than I realized looking at it flipped around. Yipes.

Yeah, this one looks like a very rough draft and we all know Barry was a talented designer.

#30239 83 days ago

Oh baby, the hits just don't stop today. A couple objection exhibits were missed with the today's earlier filing. They have now been uploaded.

I *think* one of them contains content we haven't actually seen before (Exhibit 5: 2015 and 2019 575 Fund PPMs).

Skimming through the 2015 one already encountering passages dedicated to pinball and car washes. Semi-pro soccer too.

The doc is more than 100 pages long, so I'll hold off posting until I fully skim to see if page deletions are needed.

#30240 83 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Of all the deep root mock ups, this is the most audacious, outrageous, and ridiculous. It probably would have been a Terrible game but it’s sure got chutzpa.
One is reminded of Williams’ Nags of course.

sf.gif
#30241 83 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Oh baby, the hits just don't stop today. A couple objection exhibits were missed with the today's earlier filing. They have now been uploaded.
I *think* one of them contains content we haven't actually seen before (Exhibit 5: 2015 and 2019 575 Fund PPMs).
Skimming through the 2015 one already encountering passages dedicated to pinball and car washes. Semi-pro soccer too.
The doc is more than 100 pages long, so I'll hold off posting until I fully skim to see if page deletions are needed.

Didn't need to remove anything. I think we've previously seen the 2019 PPM but not the 2015. Having them both handy makes for interesting side-by-side comparisons.

Lots of stuff worthy of attention within this doc, particularly with what we now know from the various court cases. Funny stuff leans heavier in 2015, but there's definitely comedy in 2019, too.

Edit: File was too big to upload, so I'll split it.

94-5a.pdf94-5b.pdf
#30242 83 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Hence why I speculate the standup targets would be able raise/lower, like the stand ups in AFM or others...

I thought about that option too and even double checked the targets (being stationary), so wasn't sure where this was all headed. But it is a proto after all, so it could have changed or perhaps for testing a proof of concept.

Would be interesting if Dennis N. or Steve B. over at American Pinball could chime in at some point.

#30243 83 days ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Some more photos of the Black Hole playfield

Anyone else's OCD kicking in looking at the chipped edges.. like tape both sides before running through the router, or get some decent bits (or decent plywood)

chipped_playfield (resized).png
#30244 83 days ago
Quoted from Bruce_Pickle:

greatwichjohn will have that up and running in no time if you reach out to him...

It would be nice to do something with the Deeproot stuff. But likely nothing will happen, except for me drinking beer. Still standing by if anything changes. Miss working on playfields, but it is hard to get finished art to do something. Glad to see some color improvements to Seawitch & Star Gazer playfields done by Fantastic Pinball. I reached out for the winner of all the cut playfields to see if he needed help to try & finish them. All the mock ups might get something done with their owners. Pinball is hard, but smaller stuff is possible.

IMG_0037 (resized).JPGIMG_0041 (resized).JPG
#30245 83 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Anyone else's OCD kicking in looking at the chipped edges.. like tape both sides before running through the router, or get some decent bits (or decent plywood)[quoted image]

Couple layers of shellac works too (before cutting)

15
#30246 83 days ago

BH was 100% supposed to rotate. Pretty sure I have the mechanism, and an add'l circle playfield.

IMG_20220401_143949 (resized).jpgW58lRGN - Imgur (resized).png
#30247 83 days ago
Quoted from Keroppi:

BH was 100% supposed to rotate. Pretty sure I have the mechanism, and an add'l circle playfield.
[quoted image][quoted image]

So would the turntable ever be level with the upper section of the PF? And if it was, how does the ball ever get to the top part of the PF?

Since there's no flippers on the upper PF (that I can see), am I correct the lower flippers end up being the flippers for the top part of the PF after rotating 180 degrees?

#30248 83 days ago

AFAIK, based on the combination of the drawing, the angle of the mounted circle, and the corresponding angle of the mechanism, yes, when rotated the backside would be flush. I'd have to imagine those stand-up targets would either drop as suggested, or be actual drop-targets, since it does seem like there was only ever going to be one set of flippers...it's the only thing that makes any sense.

Although the CADs do outline a lot, you'll notice *much* is still missing/not clarified...such as the rotation mechanism...it's not referred to/missing entirely. It's going to make my 3 games difficult to finish (even with CADs)...since my RAZA will literally be a scratch build, it's going to be quite an adventure...

#30249 83 days ago

There are not flippers in the upper half of the playfield, but there are slings in the mid left and right of the playfield. Those could be user controlled?

#30250 83 days ago

This is my hunch

The turntable turns 180 and maybe even some other degrees. The area in yellow may raise up and down? So it’s out of the way or in your face when the flippers are in a normal position, and raises to shoot at while inverted.

C9606CEB-9408-46C1-8B78-79E6D2DE4F52 (resized).jpeg
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