(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#32901 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Prison already, geeeeze!!!

A couple of other cases with some similar elements:

This past June, a Morgan Stanley financial advisor got 7 years in prison for running a $7m ponzi scheme.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/20/morgan-stanley-financial-advisor-ponzi-scheme.html

This month, a Texas financial advisor got life in prison for an investment scheme that led to a murder:

He promised his clients he would invest their money in financial products, but used the money to for other reasons including to help keep his struggling brewery business alive, pay personal debts, and to “fund a lavish lifestyle,” police said.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article278357519.html

14
#32902 1 year ago

"Your honor, you should see how beautiful these games are. So much purple. Too purple to fail!"

#32903 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Yeah, it's crushing. I can't imagine working a lifetime only to have some tool lie and fritter away everything I worked so hard for.

I'm sure he sleeps just fine--I doubt he will feel the impact of anything until the moment he gets hit with some actual real consequences. People like him are wired differently than most, and don't have much empathy for anyone else. He still probably thinks none of this was even his fault.

About a year ago, someone who knows him told me he was not doing well (understandable) but, yes, he did not think he was at fault. That because the investors made a decision to buy in, they are responsible for what happened to their money.

#32904 1 year ago

deeproot Funds

The good stewards

#32905 1 year ago
Quoted from LORDDREK:

deeproot Funds
The good stewards

...of self-interest.

#32906 1 year ago

Deeproot: making payments ontime is hard
But pinball is easy!

What a tool… a page and a half of excuses why they can’t make predicable payments. Everyone else in the world: ’to improve efficiency we are moving to pay everyone on the same date each month instead of your individual anniversary dates’. End of story

Seems everyone was too scared to risk blowing up their only chance of payouts by keeping quiet.

#32907 1 year ago

So those that opted to move money from zidware to double deeproot bucks... If Robert does (and most likely goes to prison), do they now trade that for shanks made from toothbrushes, cigarettes and toilet bowl moonshine? How does pinball currency convert to prison merch, is there a google tool?

#32908 1 year ago

Sort of off topic, but what happened to JPOP? I know the Ben Heck drama, and then Zidware drama and finally deeppoop saga.
Is that guy blacklisted in the pinball world now? It's quite sad, the guy really added a unique "to him" spin to this hobby. I was seriously waiting on the Alice in Wonderland pin. That is one CLASSIC title aching to be made from an original design. Zombie Yeti artwork? Yes!

#32909 1 year ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

unique "to him" spin to this hobby.

You mean ramps that are too steep or do not go anywhere? Nah, I am perfectly fine with Jpop working at a Tim Hortons so he can go play bingo the rest of his life.

#32910 1 year ago

On the other hand, the guy listed above apparently invested $350K and for 3 and a half years got payments of 5% per month. That means he pocketed at least $735K over that time.

Yeah, he never got his original $350K back, but he still more than doubled his money over that time. Assuming that he wasn't dumping those returns back into deeproot, then he actually did quite well. Sure, it wasn't as much as he was promised, but it was still a great investment for him.

I wish I could double my investment money every 3 and a half years...(it's like a yearly 20% return)

#32911 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

On the other hand, the guy listed above apparently invested $350K and for 3 and a half years got payments of 5% per month. That means he pocketed at least $735K over that time.

I had to go back and reread his statement to make sure you had your math right. And you did. How can anyone expect a 5% per month return?

That is a straight up pyramid scheme.

And I don’t want to blame the victims here. These schemes get fuelled by greed. But there’s only one perpetrator.

#32912 1 year ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Sort of off topic, but what happened to JPOP? I know the Ben Heck drama, and then Zidware drama and finally deeppoop saga.
Is that guy blacklisted in the pinball world now? It's quite sad, the guy really added a unique "to him" spin to this hobby. I was seriously waiting on the Alice in Wonderland pin. That is one CLASSIC title aching to be made from an original design. Zombie Yeti artwork? Yes!

This is not the JPOP fan thread bro...

#32913 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

About a year ago, someone who knows him told me he was not doing well (understandable) but, yes, he did not think he was at fault. That because the investors made a decision to buy in, they are responsible for what happened to their money.

Typical f ing white collar criminal. Never their fault. Doing time seems to be really hard for a lot of these guys. Because they always have someone to blame instead of themselves. Its easier to move on with your life when you can acknowledge your mistakes and want to better yourself. These guys always seem stuck in the past.

11
#32914 1 year ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Sort of off topic, but what happened to JPOP? I know the Ben Heck drama, and then Zidware drama and finally deeppoop saga.
Is that guy blacklisted in the pinball world now? It's quite sad, the guy really added a unique "to him" spin to this hobby. I was seriously waiting on the Alice in Wonderland pin. That is one CLASSIC title aching to be made from an original design. Zombie Yeti artwork? Yes!

Hate to break it to you….are you sitting down? He was a scam artist. There was nothing to wait for. It was never going to be made.

I guess we can be thankful that Jpop scammed Zombie Yeti, because that led to his job at Stern & I can enjoy my Foo Fighters & Deadpool with Yeti art and not a fleck of Jpop stank on them.

#32915 1 year ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Sort of off topic, but what happened to JPOP? I know the Ben Heck drama, and then Zidware drama and finally deeppoop saga.
Is that guy blacklisted in the pinball world now? It's quite sad, the guy really added a unique "to him" spin to this hobby. I was seriously waiting on the Alice in Wonderland pin. That is one CLASSIC title aching to be made from an original design. Zombie Yeti artwork? Yes!

The JPOP thread is over here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6mg-raza-and-aiw%e2%80%a6/

You left out the fiascos involving Pintasia & Magic Girl, and later Houdini with American Pinball.

Anyway, there was an ongoing lawsuit against him from preorder buyers, and I saw that it ended a while ago.

https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2022/12/01/zidware-case-resolved/

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6mg-raza-and-aiw%E2%80%A6/page/488#post-7267246

#32916 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

About a year ago, someone who knows him told me he was not doing well (understandable) but, yes, he did not think he was at fault. That because the investors made a decision to buy in, they are responsible for what happened to their money.

I'm glad Robert found some closure for himself.

Now we just need the SEC to find him some closure in an 8 x 12 concrete room

22
#32917 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

The guy listed above invested $350K and for 3 and a half years got payments of 5% per month.
That means he pocketed $735K over that time.

Quoted from frolic:

How can anyone expect a 5% per month return? That is a straight up pyramid scheme.

There was never any 5% per month earning plan from deeproot.

The 575 deeproot fund offered two options:
5% annual earnings in monthly payments (the first "5" in the 575 plan).
-OR- 7% annual earnings for a fixed 5 year term with NO monthly payments (the "7" and second "5" in the 575 plan).

For a $100,000.00 investment, first option would pay $416.67 per month and earn $25K over five years. Total = $125,000
Second option no monthly payments, then return the $100K plus $35K earnings (7% per year x 5 years) Total = $135,000

Of course, the plan didn't last five years and nobody got their initial investment money back.
The person who invested $350K and took monthly payments should have gotten $61,250 total over 3-1/2 years and lost $288,750.

#32918 1 year ago

Live look at the court proceedings, when Robert was asked a direct question:

whoops-my.gifwhoops-my.gif

His responses are so triggering.

#32919 1 year ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

I'm starting to think this Robert Mueller guy might be a crook!

#32920 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm glad Robert found some closure for himself.
Now we just need the SEC to find him some closure in an 8 x 12 concrete room

SEC is civil. Long alluded to criminal trial yet to come.

#32921 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

You left out the fiascos involving Pintasia & Magic Girl, and later Houdini with American Pinball.

I'm not a fan of Mr. Popadiuk's, but I was, and still am, impressed at how he kept reincarnating himself after each termination. We should probably remember him silently each Easter.
(Or not)

And he did get me a Magic Girl which satisfied a large portion of his debt.

But after Deeproot, put a fork in him. I don't think I could contain my awe and laughter if someone were to hire him again.

#32922 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm not a fan of Mr. Popadiuk's, but I was, and still am, impressed at how he kept reincarnating himself after each termination. We should probably remember him silently each Easter.
(Or not)
And he did get me a Magic Girl which satisfied a large portion of his debt.
But after Deeproot, put a fork in him. I don't think I could contain my awe and laughter if someone were to hire him again.

Its just crazy that so many people heard the whispers of his time at Williams Bally (as RM always called it) and then his next 3 "projects" were all scams. Zidware, American Pinball (they got scammed in this case), and Deeproot. It should be beyond obvious at this point, I mean, it was beyond obvious after Zidware, but at this point if he got another job in pinball it would be the most comically bad decision that could be made. I do wonder what he's up to these days. Surely he has some source of income or doing something with his time?

#32923 1 year ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

I do wonder what he's up to these days. Surely he has some source of income or doing something with his time?

I checked his linkedin page yesterday...deeproot is still listed as the latest/current venture, so there aren't any hints there about what he might be doing currently.

#32924 1 year ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

it was beyond obvious after Zidware, but at this point if he got another job in pinball it would be the most comically bad decision that could be made.

Don't underestimate the power of an updated, Goodwill Agreement, Part 2 and expanded.

11
#32925 1 year ago

Jpop had plenty of chances to redeem himself and blew it every time. He's also very lazy and I doubt that's improved with the onset of 10 more years.

Stark contrast to Dutch who realized they screwed up and made things right, by hook or crook.

#32926 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I checked his linkedin page yesterday...deeproot is still listed as the latest/current venture, so there aren't any hints there about what he might be doing currently.

Somehow related to Turner? I think Turner said no previously though.

#32927 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I checked his linkedin page yesterday...deeproot is still listed as the latest/current venture, so there aren't any hints there about what he might be doing currently.

I'm guessing he's living off his wife's nursing wages, or probably doing some contract digital artwork (which he was doing before zidware), or a little bit of both.

#32928 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I'm guessing he's living off his wife's nursing wages, or probably doing some contract digital artwork (which he was doing before zidware), or a little bit of both.

Probably uncredited consultant to the upcoming remake of The Color Purple

14
#32929 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Jpop had plenty of chances to redeem himself and blew it every time. He's also very lazy and I doubt that's improved with the onset of 10 more years.
Stark contrast to Dutch who realized they screwed up and made things right, by hook or crook.

Zidware disaster, yeah, that is all John. But you can't put the Deeproot failure on him, that is all on Robert, jpop is just a footnote, one of dozens of really dumb decisions by Robert. AP should get some credit for realizing pretty quickly they needed to part ways with Jpop. Why they would partner with him in the first place, without a bit of googling, that is a different topic.

The fact Robert would hire and rely on Jpop, just further showed how clueless he was about what it takes to build a pinball company. He had established track record of not knowing how to get things done. When trying to get a company off the ground, you don't hire names, you hire people with the skills required. Of course Robert believes he is smarter than everyone else, which is only true in his mind. From what we have learned the only thing he is above average in, is shoveling shit and selling lies. I think Robert believed he could pull off of this off and the ends would justify the means and all of his lying would not matter. It is clear that the illegal aspects of what he was doing was never a concern to him. Given the lives he has damaged, whatever time he hopefully spends in Jail will still not be enough for his total disregard for others -- "Good Stewards", that was clearly never the case.

#32930 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

AP should get some credit for realizing pretty quickly they needed to part ways with Jpop

They shouldn't have invited him on board to begin with. His issues were well known before that point, and plenty of people warned AP about JPop when the news started leaking out about him joining the team.

#32932 1 year ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

There was never any 5% per month earning plan from deeproot.
The 575 deeproot fund offered two options:
5% annual earnings in monthly payments (the first "5" in the 575 plan).
-OR- 7% annual earnings for a fixed 5 year term with NO monthly payments (the "7" and second "5" in the 575 plan).
For a $100,000.00 investment, first option would pay $416.67 per month and earn $25K over five years. Total = $125,000
Second option no monthly payments, then return the $100K plus $35K earnings (7% per year x 5 years) Total = $135,000
Of course, the plan didn't last five years and nobody got their initial investment money back.
The person who invested $350K and took monthly payments should have gotten $61,250 total over 3-1/2 years and lost $288,750.

Thank you for the clarity and details. It also makes it clear how dirty that money was. As a Zidware raza customer I never accepted the deeproot offer because I didn’t believe that it would actually happen. Now I’m glad I didn’t take the money because It would not be sitting right with me.

#32933 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

They shouldn't have invited him on board to begin with. His issues were well known before that point, and plenty of people warned AP about JPop when the news started leaking out about him joining the team.

To AP's credit, they built some Magic Girls for what I assume were the buyers that got ripped off from Zidware.

#32934 1 year ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

To AP's credit, they built some Magic Girls for what I assume were the buyers that got ripped off from Zidware.

I think it was more Jpop was forced to build them in AP's back room pretty much by himself or get his pants sued off even more

#32935 1 year ago

It's a brilliant legal strategy

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#32936 1 year ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

I think it was more Jpop was forced to build them in AP's back room pretty much by himself or get his pants sued off even more

Did AP get anything out of the deal, or was it just a loss for them (I assume the idea was John would design games for them, but they scrapped those designs/relationship, like Houdini)?

#32937 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

The fact Robert would hire and rely on Jpop, just further showed how clueless he was about what it takes to build a pinball company. He had established track record of not knowing how to get things done. When trying to get a company off the ground, you don't hire names, you hire people with the skills required.

RM believed JPOP to be the creative genius that just needed structure and support around him. Because, he like many others, were just so in love with JPOP's prior art design and games. He dismissed all critiques of JPOP by claiming he would fix it all by putting JPOP on what he does best, and letting others do the rest.

I honestly believe RM was not only on JPOP's d as an artist... but believed hiring JPOP would bring that group of faithful fans to be DeepRoot customers. He positioned JPOP as a form of asset his products would have... and not as a means to build pinball games.

JPop to his credit managed to take that love.. and convince RM to give him a sweetheart bailout no less. That's just how in love RM was with JPOP's auora.

Meanwhile... the smart ones listened to all the former WMS folks who knew the real dirt. While many cult-followers followed JPOP to their zidware doom.

#32938 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Did AP get anything out of the deal, or was it just a loss for them (I assume the idea was John would design games for them, but they scrapped those designs/relationship, like Houdini)?

They thought they got assets from it... but when they brought in real pinball people they got the news that what they had was worthless and Balcer started over.

#32939 1 year ago

Didn't JPop also come up with the branding for American Pinball and some other stuff like that?

#32940 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Didn't JPop also come up with the branding for American Pinball and some other stuff like that?

I do recall design commonalities with AP branding and old Jpop noodling.

#32941 1 year ago

Defendant's primary counsel withdraws (left firm).

SEC-106-2023.08.25.pdfSEC-106-2023.08.25.pdf
#32942 1 year ago

The substitute counsel of record is requested to be a one "Johnathan Popaduk""

Please update the court records and hang on for a wild ride, tinged with purple.

11
#32943 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Defendant's primary counsel withdraws (left firm).
[quoted image]

Might need Quad or Octo counsel.

#32944 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Defendant's primary counsel withdraws (left firm).
[quoted image]

Ya know I’ve always thought it must sorta suck sometimes being a criminal defense attorney. You go to law school with high and mighty ideals of protecting those wrongly accused, wrongly convicted, helping out the little guy. You end up defending this guy who robbed old people of their retirement savings and spent it on private schooling and his umpteenth wife. I mean it pays the bills, we all need to earn a living, and all defendants are entitled to the presumption of innocence. But I mean come on, this can’t be fun for his lawyers trying to win this one. What a waste of legal acumen searching for the pinball equivalent of the Twinkie defense.

#32945 1 year ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Ya know I’ve always thought it must sorta suck sometimes being a criminal defense attorney. You go to law school with high and mighty ideals of protecting those wrongly accused, wrongly convicted, helping out the little guy. You end up defending this guy who robbed old people of their retirement savings and spent it on private schooling and his umpteenth wife. I mean it pays the bills, we all need to earn a living, and all defendants are entitled to the presumption of innocence. But I mean come on, this can’t be fun for his lawyers trying to win this one. What a waste of legal acumen searching for the pinball equivalent of the Twinkie defense.

Or you save the innocent:

ojs-impson.gifojs-impson.gif

#32946 1 year ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Ya know I’ve always thought it must sorta suck sometimes being a criminal defense attorney. You go to law school with high and mighty ideals of protecting those wrongly accused, wrongly convicted, helping out the little guy. You end up defending this guy who robbed old people of their retirement savings

Most law school graduates exit law school with debt. Which can change your priorities.

Many federal criminal attorneys previously worked for DOJ. Like the defendants ex attorney and partners. Many had ideals of justice and believe our federal system is too harsh or they just want the pay that goes with being a federal criminal attorney. Its a pretty good gig where you get paid up front to essentially negotiate a better loss. The hardest part to me would be to convince narcissistic criminals that their situation is basically hopeless, and taking 7 to 10 years is drastically better than 16 to 20.

One of my jobs in federal prison was as a law library clerk. I noticed that out of the 8 or so guys that were always in the law library, half were attorneys and a judge who lost their trials and were working on their appeals. They were smarter than most inmates, but didn't have enough common sense to realize they were toast. This narcissistic tendency sounds a little like the defendant to me.

#32947 1 year ago

Was Bloberts new attorney delivered in a PinPod (Patent Pending)

#32948 1 year ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Ya know I’ve always thought it must sorta suck sometimes being a criminal defense attorney. You go to law school with high and mighty ideals of protecting those wrongly accused, wrongly convicted, helping out the little guy. You end up defending this guy who robbed old people of their retirement savings and spent it on private schooling and his umpteenth wife. I mean it pays the bills, we all need to earn a living, and all defendants are entitled to the presumption of innocence. But I mean come on, this can’t be fun for his lawyers trying to win this one. What a waste of legal acumen searching for the pinball equivalent of the Twinkie defense.

Some people just want to be bad actors from the get go. I met a guy at a party who bragged to me that he specifically got diagnosed with learning disabilities so that he could get extra time on his LSAT exams. His whole plan was to go to law school and become a rich fuck corporate lawyer to screw over everybody. Anyway, he's now graduated from Cornell and is working his way up at some NY law firm.

#32949 1 year ago
Quoted from Inside:

His whole plan was to go to law school and become a rich fuck corporate lawyer to screw over everybody. Anyway, he's now graduated from Cornell and is working his way up at some NY law firm.

My golf teammate was valedictorian of our high school one year. During his speech he thanked his mom for offering to buy him a Lotus if he got a 4.0 grade ave. And told everyone how he cheated to get that Lotus during his speech.

He became a corporate attorney.

14
#32950 1 year ago

It was confirmed in court fillings that his new lawyer is Saul Goodman.

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