(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 31,898 posts
  • 1,125 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 17 hours ago by Inside
  • Topic is favorited by 307 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

F2D77682-DF4F-4993-B92C-30E9910F70B2 (resized).jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png
5304FD3F-9780-4833-A73A-0FDF4BE861D6 (resized).jpeg
2B1BF3D5-102E-4D16-9B50-237C9E34B1E5 (resized).jpeg
C7D6EE63-3423-4096-AD3B-B7B69DC9189B (resized).jpeg
E766E3A5-ACF3-4E4E-99F3-5A32A4BDBE3B (resized).jpeg
park and orchard ted (resized).JPG
Screen Shot 2022-08-09 at 3.56.10 PM (resized).png
Screen Shot 2022-08-09 at 3.56.25 PM (resized).png
Screen Shot 2022-08-09 at 3.56.30 PM (resized).png
Screen Shot 2022-08-09 at 3.56.36 PM (resized).png
Screen Shot 2022-08-09 at 3.56.50 PM (resized).png
136.pdf (PDF preview)
136-1.pdf (PDF preview)
CandyPatent (resized).png
6pb9c8 (resized).jpeg

Topic index (key posts)

223 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 31,898 posts in this topic. You are on page 624 of 638.
#31151 71 days ago

New base64 clue in html source:

"Great work, but don't miss the forest for the trees. A new clue will arrive each week."

#31152 71 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

This has to be a troll. What the fuck are they even doing?

It's always been a possibility (and this update feels particularly trollish).

Don't forget, any one of us (or anyone else on the internet) had ample opportunity to purchase the domain from godaddy for not much cash. One wouldn't have to actually have secured the ip to use the logo on the site. Even if someone else recently purchased it, enforcement at this point would likely take a while to get going.

Site updated to v2 of the puzzle with an answer bank (seemed unnecessary). And three meta tag easter eggs (the two base64 codes previously mentioned:

<meta name="author" content="?">

<meta name="c01" content="TW9yZSB0aGFuIG1lZXRzIHRoZSBleWUu">
More than meets the eye.

<meta name="c02" content="R3JlYXQgd29yaywgYnV0IGRvbid0IG1pc3MgdGhlIGZvcmVzdCBmb3IgdGhlIHRyZWVzLiBBIG5ldyBjbHVlIHdpbGwgYXJyaXZlIGVhY2ggd2Vlay4=">
Great work, but don't miss the forest for the trees. A new clue will arrive each week.

Screen Shot 2022-06-03 at 7.02.12 PM (resized).png

#31153 71 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

I'm walking out the door so will leave this one to the sewer codebreakers

And don't forget. All responses must be phrased in the form of a question.

22
#31154 71 days ago

The word find is the defacto best game deeproot ever delivered to people.

#31155 71 days ago

Letters:

FZVHCYVHPAFCRCYMNFKM
XPMIIJPYIZWOPKPXIKCA
YEIQVYOBNUMNHXCVULUG
DKNMSWVJBRUWMBEPXERI
EEHOOVGPAUKUMDWNHYTC
NCEANHWNLAKCAPINPODG
OGQPGTIYLYZYKCBSRIOI
TPPTRPURIXSAYCIOLTOR
SEINOOGBSVSTRLTAAEFL
MJJFHZOEEMNGIALIBYPU
INXZGCRTAQJCIGGJBNAQ
RGMWYAJOSKODTXUQQOTL
BLTTBNVBYNARKHLIVKTZ
DEHNABDNDLYKQREGVUAT
NNILOUYRGFTJEJBWQYCA
APMERLINSARCADEPHUKN
EUSKJVEDISNIPYXLLONN
RLOTEROUOHXVYRNNAUEC
IEGAENIHCAMJSNVTENDP
FRFZRLEPLNDEGRMXPIZN

Into solver:

https://www.dcode.fr/word-search-solver

Finds these individual words (row and column numbers and direction after word) - may be useful to find phrases?:
pasted_image (resized).png

Unused letters appear to be too many for a clue there?
F Z V H C Y V H F C C Y M N P M I I J P Y W P K P X K Y I Q V Y O B N H X C U L K M W V J U W B P X E H V G P U K U M W N H Y A H W N Q K C B P T X Y C V J J F N G L B U N X C Q J Q M W Y J T X Q Q T T N V B R K H I V Z D D Y Q R G V U Y F T J E J W Q A P H U K Y X U O X V Y R N C G A J S N V P R F Z E P L D E G R M X I Z N

#31156 71 days ago

Just in case this view could be relevant...

dpp (resized).jpg
-3
#31157 71 days ago

I don’t want to all that jibber jabber you are posting. Deeproot did not fuck anybody. They fuck the selfs!

#31158 71 days ago
Quoted from Gunnut40:

I don’t want to all that jibber jabber you are posting. Deeproot did not fuck anybody. They fuck the selfs!

What planet are you on, and do they speak coherent English there??

#31159 71 days ago

This thread has the best jibber jabber ever.

14
#31160 71 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

This thread has the best jibber jabber ever.

fuck the selfs!

#31161 71 days ago

Three down, 5 across, diagonal with a counter-clockwise swirl, "Paul Is Dead"

#31162 71 days ago
Quoted from Zzap:

New base64 clue in html source:
"Great work, but don't miss the forest for the trees. A new clue will arrive each week."

How long until our entertainer reveals themselves?

#31163 71 days ago

Im rolling!!!

#31164 71 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

This thread has the best jibber jabber ever.

I mean, now we have intrigue! Who's watching! Special K perhaps.

#31166 71 days ago

decoder ring says …. drink more ovaltine.

#31167 71 days ago

It's Time for Deeproot Jeopardy!

https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/95704623/Jeopardy-Blank

! ! ! 6ijyp9 (1) (resized).jpg
#31168 71 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Heads up, Robert: David Fix says he'll pick up the phone if you want to talk contract manufacturing for Raza with American Pinball

There's a surprisingly large amount of deeproot content in the very lengthy David Fix interview on the new pinball news + magazine pincast, including that Robert apparently took the above advice in the 59th minute of the 11th hour:

https://player.fm/series/pinball-news-pinball-magazine-podcast/pinball-magazine-pinball-news-pincast-may-2022-recap

Another item that David mentions which I had not shared publicly to keep confidences (but which I hinted at in the lead up to the HQ auction) is that American was and apparently still is interested in trying to acquire some of the deeproot games/design IP.

David reports that those efforts continue. This could mean any number of things including:

- Turner has not acquired said IP (we only saw that he was inquiring about it, not that it happened)

- Turner acquired some but not all IP and American is pursuing what's still available

- Turner acquired the IP American wants but David is trying to acquire it from Turner

- David is pursuing a collaborative co-venture with the IP owners

Whichever above it may be (or even if none but something in a similar universe), if Turner does intend to make a go at making RAZAs or other deeproot titles, he'd be wise to apply lessons learned from deeproot missteps and partner with someone who knows manufacturing rather than trying to do it himself.

In all seriousness, setting aside whether you think any of these games should ever actually be made, if the desire and intention to make them is there, it's hard to picture a viable option better than partnering with American, a company with more production lines than product, that has ambitious plans to grow, knows how to build stuff, and that has hired up a number of former deeproot staff.

#31169 71 days ago

A bonus reason to check out the episode is if you want to hear a twenty-minute answer to a simple question about American making Sonic the Hedgehog pinball.

#31170 70 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

David reports that those efforts continue. This could mean any number of things including:

- Turner has not acquired said IP (we only saw that he was inquiring about it, not that it happened)

- Turner acquired some but not all IP and American is pursuing what's still available

- Turner acquired the IP American wants but David is trying to acquire it from Turner

- David is pursuing a collaborative co-venture with the IP owners

Why would you think they acquired any IP? The only liquidation has been to empty the building - so people were buying physical assets.. not any intellectual property or 'soft' assets. You'd see bankruptcy filings if the trustee had sold any of this off... and anything leading up to the actual bankruptcies would have been scrutinized by the trustee as well.

The building auction would have only been interesting to secure things to make building more practical (existing fixtures, prototypes, molds, tooling, etc).

#31171 70 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Why would you think they acquired any IP? The only liquidation has been to empty the building - so people were buying physical assets.. not any intellectual property or 'soft' assets. You'd see bankruptcy filings if the trustee had sold any of this off... and anything leading up to the actual bankruptcies would have been scrutinized by the trustee as well.
The building auction would have only been interesting to secure things to make building more practical (existing fixtures, prototypes, molds, tooling, etc).

Because in the recent the billable hour filings by lawyers hired by the trustee there are multiple entries related to emails/meetings with Chris Turner about buying the deeproot pinball and wizard mode media IP.

Doesn't mean any of it has been acquired or will be. If it was or will be, I expect we will eventually see that information in court filings. But I'm not aware of any rule governing when that would happen (If you are, please let us know).

#31172 70 days ago

Oh, another fun bit I just remembered from the David Fix interview: our own greatwichjohn gets a shout-out as a playfield guy out there to hit up!

#31173 70 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Oh, another fun bit I just remembered from the David Fix interview: our own greatwichjohn gets a shout-out as a playfield guy out there to hit up!

I had several beers and wasn't sure if I heard that correctly.
Did you know greatwichjohn will be at a pinball show at the ezpinball booth if you want to stop by. I read that somewhere.

#31174 70 days ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

I had several beers and wasn't sure if I heard that correctly.
Did you know greatwichjohn will be at a pinball show at the ezpinball booth if you want to stop by. I read that somewhere.

Beers or not, you heard it right! And yes, I've read that as well.

#31175 69 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

How long until our entertainer reveals themselves?

I guess benheck is having some fun. Do I win a prize?

#31176 69 days ago

Yes I will be at Pintastic Show with a booth space to promote EZ Pinball. I know David Fix from way back with the very early uv inkjet production for restoring playfields (about 40 done of different titles). He got to see the early stages of production. What David missed was my glass production over the years was 3X that of new playfields (300). Never got into doing plastics which could easily be done.
David is correct about all the ideas that were worked on over the years at Deeproot Pinball. The good stuff could be used, & turf the wacky stuff. There is still lots of room for companies that can actually manufacture pinball machines, & parts.

#31177 69 days ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

There is still lots of room for companies that can actually manufacture pinball machines, & parts.

And plenty of room for word searches, apparently.

#31178 69 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

And plenty of room for word searches, apparently.

Just shows you how out of touch Deeproot was and still is.
Word search is so USA Today, should have been a wordle.

#31179 68 days ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes I will be at Pintastic Show with a booth space to promote EZ Pinball. I know David Fix from way back with the very early uv inkjet production for restoring playfields (about 40 done of different titles). He got to see the early stages of production. What David missed was my glass production over the years was 3X that of new playfields (300). Never got into doing plastics which could easily be done.
David is correct about all the ideas that were worked on over the years at Deeproot Pinball. The good stuff could be used, & turf the wacky stuff. There is still lots of room for companies that can actually manufacture pinball machines, & parts.

The best thing they engineered the the lifting glass mech.

10
#31180 68 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

The best thing they engineered the the lifting glass mech.

You mean, like late-60s/early-70s Bally EMs had?

#31181 68 days ago
Quoted from frobozz:

You mean, like late-60s/early-70s Bally EMs had?

"What is old is new again!"

#31182 68 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

The best thing they engineered the the lifting glass mech.

Like most things deeproot, that was a solution in search of a problem.

#31183 68 days ago
Quoted from zombywoof:

Like most things deeproot, that was a solution in search of a problem.

Correct.

From this stupid hydraulic glass lifting system, to the pinpod, Deep Root's slogan should be "Deep Root: Adding Ridiculous Cost, Complexity, Weight, and Size to Everything."

Doesn't quite have the same ring as "Every pinball needs a home, every home needs a pinball," but I'd say it at least reflects reality.

#31184 68 days ago

Pinpod had to be near the top of bad ideas, like the pinbar. Same with lifting the playfields, which should be weight reduced. No one needs a bad back from lifting super heavy playfields.

#31185 67 days ago

A few new pacer items from bankruptcy land:

Update your calendars: The June 14th hearing is now a June 28th hearing (reason: scheduling conflict with medical procedure).

Screen Shot 2022-06-07 at 12.57.54 PM (resized).png

QUESTION: Did anyone previously contact Castleberry about being able to attend (virtually or in person) the June 14 hearing? If so, what did you learn?

Also: Trustee is hiring an accountant.

A couple highlights, followed by the three pdfs

Screen Shot 2022-06-07 at 12.55.37 PM (resized).png

Screen Shot 2022-06-07 at 12.56.26 PM (resized).png

deeprootcapital-121-2022.06.07.pdfdeeprootcapital-122-2022.06.07.pdfdeeprootcapital-123-2022.06.07.pdf
#31186 67 days ago

I give up! I've looked and looked, but I just can't seem to find W-A-L-D-O anywhere in the grid.
word grid (resized).jpg

#31187 67 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

I give up! I've looked and looked, but I just can't seem to find W-A-L-D-O anywhere in the grid.
[quoted image]

Anybody find PRISON ? or will that be in a future word search ?

#31188 67 days ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Pinpod had to be near the top of bad ideas, like the pinbar. Same with lifting the playfields, which should be weight reduced. No one needs a bad back from lifting super heavy playfields.

Not bad ideas - just horribly misguided implementations that don't include the actual things the market needs.

Pinball packaging is a real issue --- but creating a box that can't be moved except by freight handling tools and can't make it through any non-industrial door is the poster child for 'not knowing your market'.

Glass removal is a PITA - its something that can be improved. But you gotta pick the right compromises.. they did not.

#31189 67 days ago

If you take out expense and logistics that super wide display did look pretty sweet.

#31190 67 days ago

So I finally wasted the time and looked up the prosecution of the PinBar™ "patent" (easily the most laughable one I've EVER looked at), and it's been deemed not novel because of the following igt patent:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180261038A1

Now, prosecution isn't final AFAIK, but who's going to keep doing the work?

So, for IP, you don't have a cabinet patent for a playfield lift mech that appears to have not worked anyway, you have an opinion that you could be potentially sued by IGT (ProTip: THEY ARE EXTREMELY LITIGIOUS) if you pursue PinBar™, you have questionable ownership of JPop's IP given the previous sale to wcbrandes and also reselling it (or transferring it) to Deeproot during a lawsuit... What would you actually get? Some CAD sketches that haven't been detailed by mechanical engineers?

There may be other stuff, existing codebase that may or may not require a lawsuit to get a hold of, maybe an electronics system assuming that wasn't licensed or stolen from elsewhere?

Good luck with all that.

#31191 67 days ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

So I finally wasted the time and looked up the prosecution of the PinBar™ "patent" (easily the most laughable one I've EVER looked at), and it's been deemed not novel because of the following igt patent:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180261038A1
Now, prosecution isn't final AFAIK, but who's going to keep doing the work?
So, for IP, you don't have a cabinet patent for a playfield lift mech that appears to have not worked anyway, you have an opinion that you could be potentially sued by IGT (ProTip: THEY ARE EXTREMELY LITIGIOUS) if you pursue PinBar™, you have questionable ownership of JPop's IP given the previous sale to wcbrandes and also reselling it (or transferring it) to Deeproot during a lawsuit... What would you actually get? Some CAD sketches that haven't been detailed by mechanical engineers?
There may be other stuff, existing codebase that may or may not require a lawsuit to get a hold of, maybe an electronics system assuming that wasn't licensed or stolen from elsewhere?
Good luck with all that.

So patents don't really work like that. A patent has two major sections: a description and a list of claims. The description is a bunch of pictures and details written description of the pictures to help the examiner understand what you're trying to do. The list of claims consists of independent and dependent claims. You can describe anything you want in the patent body, but you typically patent a really really small subsection of what's described.

When you "patent" something you have to be really careful with the wording - it has to be narrow enough for that patent examiner to grant it to you, but also wide enough to protect yourself so that someone can't create a device with n-1 features. (A device with n+1 features is considered derivative and so would be violating a patent).

Here's independent claim #1 from that patent:

A gaming system comprising:
a housing;
a plurality of input devices supported by the housing and including a payment device and a cashout button;
a display device supported by the housing;
a processor; and
a memory device storing a plurality of instructions that, when executed by the processor, cause the processor to: [...]

So -- all you need to do is make a machine that doesn't have a cashout button and then the above patent doesn't cover it. Easy peasy.

#31192 67 days ago

Here's a fun article about patents: https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2017/10/07/patent-drafting-101-say-mean-patent-application/id=88962/

In this instantly famous Chef America case, which discusses the ‘290 patent, the Federal Circuit had to interpret the meaning of the patent claim phrase “heating the resulting batter-coated dough to a temperature in the range of about 400° F. to 850° F.” What should have been said was “heat the oven to a temperature in the range of about 400° F. to 850° F.” Unfortunately, because what was said literally said required the internal temperature of the dough to reach a temperature of between 400° F. to 850° F., the patent owner had a useless patent. We, however, we have a very useful lesson.

#31193 66 days ago
Quoted from Inside:

So patents don't really work like that

Yes, I know how they work. I simply did not read the IGT one very much at all, so you're right, you wouldn't get sued by them. However, it still renders PinBar not novel, at least according to that examiner, so you're not getting anything exclusive other than the right to keep honing it in to the extent IGT apparently did given all the restrictions in their independent claims and 10-year prosecution.

#31194 66 days ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Yes, I know how they work. I simply did not read the IGT one very much at all, so you're right, you wouldn't get sued by them. However, it still renders PinBar not novel, at least according to that examiner, so you're not getting anything exclusive other than the right to keep honing it in to the extent IGT apparently did given all the restrictions in their independent claims and 10-year prosecution.

Wow, the deeproot patent applications (both US and international) are like 70 pages long. I bet you that whoever was drafting the application got paid by the word

Also, the DR patent application has one claim and is astonishingly broad. Probably a patent lawyer technique to keep the patent litigation going - keep charging additional fees every six months as you work to narrow the claims.

Claims We claim:
1. A pinball machine comprising:
a primary computing system;
at least one peripheral system;
and an interactive touch control wherein the primary computing system is configured to receive inputs from and transmit outputs to the at least one peripheral system and to the interactive touch control.

Primary computer system: node
Peripheral system: spike
Interactive touch control: lit up buttons on the side of the machine.

They should've started with:

Claims We claim:
1. A pinball machine comprising:
a primary computing system;
at least one peripheral system;
an interactive touch control wherein the primary computing system is configured to receive inputs from and transmit outputs to the at least one peripheral system and to the interactive touch control;
and, an interactive touch control frame wherein the touch control frame is made of stainless steel bent at a sharp angle so as to cause the user misery

#31195 66 days ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

So I finally wasted the time and looked up the prosecution of the PinBar™ "patent" (easily the most laughable one I've EVER looked at), and it's been deemed not novel because of the following igt patent:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180261038A1
Now, prosecution isn't final AFAIK, but who's going to keep doing the work?
So, for IP, you don't have a cabinet patent for a playfield lift mech that appears to have not worked anyway, you have an opinion that you could be potentially sued by IGT (ProTip: THEY ARE EXTREMELY LITIGIOUS) if you pursue PinBar™, you have questionable ownership of JPop's IP given the previous sale to wcbrandes and also reselling it (or transferring it) to Deeproot during a lawsuit... What would you actually get? Some CAD sketches that haven't been detailed by mechanical engineers?
There may be other stuff, existing codebase that may or may not require a lawsuit to get a hold of, maybe an electronics system assuming that wasn't licensed or stolen from elsewhere?
Good luck with all that.

pinball_keefer would you link or flag where to see the info regarding it being deemed not novel? I'm not familiar with how to navigate patent processes like legal ones.

#31196 66 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

pinball_keefer would you link or flag where to see the info regarding it being deemed not novel? I'm not familiar with how to navigate patent processes like legal ones.

Checkout USPTO Patent Pair (or Patent Center I think it's called):

https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/#!/applications/62952646/ifw/docs (this is the Provisional Patent Application - which happens before the main patent application).

Edit: https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/#!/applications/PCTUS2066966 application

#31197 66 days ago

Motion granted. Who's attending?

deeprootcapital-124-2022.06.08.pdf
#31198 66 days ago

Yeah after perusing the application https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/#!/applications/PCTUS2066966 -- I don't see anything in there that it's been denied. It's just in the pre-examination stage at this point. Compare it to the other patent (https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/#!/applications/15975240/ifw/docs) -- it went to non-final rejection, amendment for consideration, then final rejection, then a reconsideration, then finally a grant.

#31199 66 days ago
Quoted from Inside:

Wow, the deeproot patent applications (both US and international) are like 70 pages long. I bet you that whoever was drafting the application got paid by the word
Also, the DR patent application has one claim and is astonishingly broad. Probably a patent lawyer technique to keep the patent litigation going - keep charging additional fees every six months as you work to narrow the claims.

Primary computer system: node
Peripheral system: spike
Interactive touch control: lit up buttons on the side of the machine.
They should've started with:

That is truly insane. You are right they got trolled by their own patent lawyer. It’s so odd, usually my strategy is to load up the dependent claims into the primary claim at first so that we at least get something issued and then go from there pulling them out to create broader claims in subsequent continuations. I mean Robert as a lawyer should have at least passed patent law 101 class and known that what he was trying to patent was a pinball machine, pretty much any pinball machine with that language. You can do it the other way where you pull dependent claims into primary claim as you receive rejection after rejection but damn that’s some expensive lawyer time there.

#31200 66 days ago
Quoted from Inside:

Yeah after perusing the application https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/#!/applications/PCTUS2066966 -- I don't see anything in there that it's been denied. It's just in the pre-examination stage at this point. Compare it to the other patent (https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/#!/applications/15975240/ifw/docs) -- it went to non-final rejection, amendment for consideration, then final rejection, then a reconsideration, then finally a grant.

I’d be stunned if that first one doesn’t just get abandoned. I mean what IP is there really there worth protecting that another company just has to have ?

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 599.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
8,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Rottenburg An Der Laaber, BY
From: $ 15.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 31,898 posts in this topic. You are on page 624 of 638.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, become a Pinside+ member!