(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#14351 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Here's what I believe to be the deal with manufacturing:
In the interview, if you listen between the lines, they know RAZA is a dog. All they talk about is the system around it, what the next games are, and mostly the PinBar. Mentions how much work it was to get RAZA going (because John sold them a light diorama) and as for how many they will sell? 100? Maybe 200? Robert says. He doesn't know (who does?) but knows it won't be a lot. (This is the same guy who back in early 2015, without playing it, thought Magic Girl could sell 2800 units on looks alone. Note how often he says "beauty" in these videos)
Look, I'm sure RAZA is shootable. But it's pretty weak considering NINE YEARS of dev and the money deepRoot spent and their level of their ambition.
The 3 week sales window is so they know how much they have to hire up/ramp up for manufacturing starting in January.
Then the question becomes how close is their next game? A line is a beast that must be fed, so are they going to scale out the hiring to keep making RAZA until Food Truck is ready? When that bombs how close is Goonies to being ready?

So let's say they get 200 pre-orders for RAZA (which is likely the maximum if they only sold 25 games in 2 days).. let's assume they have some sort of assembly line, whatever that is. This is their first rodeo. Even if they hired an experienced production engineer, I'm assuming that person hasn't built out an assembly line for pinball machines (which sorry, are niche). Even if they somehow manage to build 20 games/week, that's 10 weeks. Is the next game going to be ready in that short time? Not just a complete layout game tested, but artwork, code, ALL parts ready to go? From my experience, lead-time on parts can be anywhere from a month to 4 months.

#14352 3 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

At least get a license from PPS and call it Diner 2 instead of Food Truck. I don’t think that will save it however. Fire and Brimstone is a TERRIBLE idea. Sorry benheck

Fire and Brimstone is a terrible name. Makes you think of super right wing Southern baptists and all the most negative aspects of religion.

I was gonna do a Cecile b Demille/Michael Bay/God of War like Bible game. But then I made the mistake of mentioning the idea to Robert and here we are...

#14353 3 years ago

If there is a next game, I wonder how much more expensive it’ll be once deeproot actually figures out how expensive the device is to make.

That or they start pulling stuff like the lift glass

#14354 3 years ago

Food truck will be fine if it shoots well. Everyone loves at least of few of the old system 11 games. Remember that Funhouse was unlicensed. No one is bitching about Heist. Why? It shoots well and has great ideas behind it.

The issue with RAZA (as Ben has pointed out repeatedly) is gameplay. It has almost exclusively recycled ideas and just doesn't seem to shoot that well for a modern game. I like the Dizzy Doozy though. It's better than JJP's effort at a spinner wheel.

If food truck shoots well, has good theme integration with some humour, I'd likely buy one. The Bowden gameplay vid makes the pinbar looks pretty damn cool. Spending money in the shop doesn't seem to be the annoying stop-and-go like I thought it would be. Plus with foodtruck, you don't have to take the manufacturing risk. The suckers who bought Raza already did that for you.

-10
#14355 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Fire and Brimstone is a terrible name. Makes you think of super right wing Southern baptists and all the most negative aspects of religion.
I was gonna do a Cecile b Demille/Michael Bay/God of War like Bible game. But then I made the mistake of mentioning the idea to Robert and here we are...

You seem very bitter. It's not healthy.

#14356 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

You seem very bitter. It's not healthy.

I don’t know what Bens connection (and beef) is with Deeproot but he seems even more disgruntled against them than Homepin who, from what I gather, “stole” some of his code (at least during the prototyping stage).

#14357 3 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

If they are announcing game #2, then getting game #1 out the door and into peoples hands is just a formality.

You slay me.

#14358 3 years ago

So, 6 people apparently "saw" the manufacturing facility?

I asked a few pages ago, but -- what was inside of it? Was there equipment? Parts? Tooling? Anything?

#14359 3 years ago

I was gonna do a Cecile b Demille/Michael Bay/God of War like Bible game. But then I made the mistake of mentioning the idea to Robert and here we are...

Ben@ you stil can do your game with Spooky.
A IDEA IS NOT A DESIGN.
DON'T LOOK BACK, LOOK INTO THE FUTURE.
And it will clear your mind.

#14360 3 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Isn’t DP now just Barry and a couple helpers making a game a day?

Nope, moved out small warehouse now into decent manufacturing building.

Read on...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-official-club-thread/page/33#post-5960897

Views of the new manufacturing floor:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/250#post-5984783

#14361 3 years ago
Quoted from Mercifull:

I don’t know what Bens connection (and beef) is with Deeproot but he seems even more disgruntled against them than Homepin who, from what I gather, “stole” some of his code (at least during the prototyping stage).

If I parted ways with a company for any reason, the last thing I would do is spend hours upon hours posting about them worrying about what they are doing, making sure everyone knows how bad they are. I would move on with my life and forget about them.

#14362 3 years ago

I’m hearing great things about Food Truck

I thought the theme was a joke at first but hey I’ve an open mind

#14363 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I’m hearing great things about Food Truck
I thought the theme was a joke at first but hey I’ve an open mind

Diner meets Big Betty's Truck Stop: what's not to love? With an open mind, I think this (along with Yukon Yeti) is the best of their original / unlicensed concepts. The "unlicensed oh noes" are still inherent, but it could be lots of goofy fun if done properly.

#14364 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

but hey I’ve an open mind

No room for that in this thread.

#14365 3 years ago

Oh but it's so much fun to speculate. In addition I was there for some of it so it's interesting to see if the puzzle pieces fit in the ways I expected.

There's a bit of "original sin" as well, since my name was originally attached (again John's idea not mine)

#14366 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I’m hearing great things about Food Truck
I thought the theme was a joke at first but hey I’ve an open mind

Food Truck sounds like a lighthearted, fun, and humorous original theme pin that won’t take itself too seriously. The world sucks right now and will for quite some time...Food Truck will definitely bring some smiles...bring it on! Assuming RAZA ships, this sounds like a great second effort and Oursler won’t disappoint.

#14367 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I’m hearing great things about Food Truck
I thought the theme was a joke at first but hey I’ve an open mind

My Emeril Lagasse GIF got to you. Nice!

#14368 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Oh but it's so much fun to speculate. In addition I was there for some of it so it's interesting to see if the puzzle pieces fit in the ways I expected.
There's a bit of "original sin" as well, since my name was originally attached (again John's idea not mine)

Back when Zombie Adventureland still had zombies... look how far we've strayed.

bhza (resized).jpgbhza (resized).jpg
#14369 3 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Food truck will be fine if it shoots well. Everyone loves at least of few of the old system 11 games. Remember that Funhouse was unlicensed. No one is bitching about Heist. Why? It shoots well and has great ideas behind it.
The issue with RAZA (as Ben has pointed out repeatedly) is gameplay. It has almost exclusively recycled ideas and just doesn't seem to shoot that well for a modern game. I like the Dizzy Doozy though. It's better than JJP's effort at a spinner wheel.
If food truck shoots well, has good theme integration with some humour, I'd likely buy one. The Bowden gameplay vid makes the pinbar looks pretty damn cool. Spending money in the shop doesn't seem to be the annoying stop-and-go like I thought it would be. Plus with foodtruck, you don't have to take the manufacturing risk. The suckers who bought Raza already did that for you.

really depends on what direction they take it.

If it's like every cooking game like "cooking mama" where you're stressed out getting orders out on time (and correctly), then no thanks. That's not fun, that's work.

If they make it simplistic where shots equals progress in the storyline (sort of like the way stern did deadpool), then it could be fun. Maybe besides just the cooking part, there could be a competition where all the trucks are racing down the streets to a sporting event and the first one gets the closer parking spot (3x point scoring).

#14370 3 years ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

I think I'd rather take my chances with Project Pinball Charity.
At least the odds of actually getting a game are better - only 1 in 200.
And it's only $50 and the money is going to a great spot.

Wish I could up vote this more than once...

#14371 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

really depends on what direction they take it.
If it's like every cooking game like "cooking mama" where you're stressed out getting orders out on time (and correctly), then no thanks. That's not fun, that's work.
If they make it simplistic where shots equals progress in the storyline (sort of like the way stern did deadpool), then it could be fun. Maybe besides just the cooking part, there could be a competition where all the trucks are racing down the streets to a sporting event and the first one gets the closer parking spot (3x point scoring).

That's my take and imagining of the concept. In fairness, it *should* have a hurry-up mode (like Diner's "The Rush") because face it, that's foodservice. But with trucks, there's so much more fun, imaginative, and lighthearted potential:

- Build your truck with wacky parts
---- then choose your menu modes (Ice cream / hotdogs / sushi / tacos / etc)
- "Food Fight" against other trucks
---Sabotage, attack and/or defend
- Drag race against rivals to choice venues
----- Venue subtheme variety (sport event / bday party / carnival / music festival / etc)
- Avoid the (approaching tornado / rival truck / health inspectors / etc)
---buy out the competition, build an empire

...in addition to foodservice tropes (rush hour / cranky customers / bad food)

Like I said, lots of fun ideas to work with. But a "cook X before time expires, wash rinse repeat" could get old quickly.

#14372 3 years ago

I for one welcome an original theme - especially if it comes with great artwork. Let's see what they come up with.
Besides, I just noticed that there now is an official Deeprot distributor in Germany (Pinball Universe). Nice.

#14373 3 years ago
Quoted from Robotoes:

So, 6 people apparently "saw" the manufacturing facility?
I asked a few pages ago, but -- what was inside of it? Was there equipment? Parts? Tooling? Anything?

i know they have a candy machine..

#14374 3 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

- "Food Fight" against other trucks
---Sabotage, attack and/or defend

King of the hill did stuff like that in one episode.

#14375 3 years ago

I see a lot of criticisms on DR. It seems like since they revealed their first game, this is far worst than when they were a scam company which will never produce a game.
Ok, let’s be honest, even if RAZA does’nt sell that great, which is possible, I wonder if there will be a missed opportunity to aquire a great game, same as POTC, in couple of months or years because people will realize that this pin was great after all and lot of people will change their minds.

There are so many critisisms in here, than it will scare for sure a lot of potential buyers. Maybe they will surprise everyone, stay in place, manufacture all their games, start being really successfull after their second games... who knows.
At the end, the more choice the better but so many people want them to fail.... so be it.

I would never launch a pinball company myself... I mean never... when you see how you can be burnt in public, how difficult it is, all the bad feedbacks for small things... i mean you have to be either courageous or crazy....
Let’s give them that at least.

I just rewatched the Steve Gameplay video and I like RAZA more and more and I really think the design is great. I can’t afford a Raza now (i just bought a pin and the Tariff... but why not in the future)

At least this create a lot of drama in here!

Peace.
My 2 cents.

#14376 3 years ago
Quoted from noitbe1:

I see a lot of criticisms on DR. It seems like since they revealed their first game, this is far worst than when they were a scam company which will never produce a game.
Ok, let’s be honest, even if RAZA does’nt sell that great, which is possible, I wonder if there will be a missed opportunity to aquire a great game, same as POTC, in couple of months or years because people will realize that this pin was great after all and lot of people will change their minds.
There are so many critisisms in here, than it will scare for sure a lot of potential buyers. Maybe they will surprise everyone, stay in place, manufacture all their games, start being really successfull after their second games... who knows.
At the end, the more choice the better but so many people want them to fail.... so be it.
I would never launch a pinball company myself... I mean never... when you see how you can be burnt in public, how difficult it is, all the bad feedbacks for small things... i mean you have to be either courageous or crazy....
Let’s give them that at least.
I just rewatched the Steve Gameplay video and I like RAZA more and more and I really think the design is great. I can’t afford a Raza now (i just bought a pin and the Tariff... but why not in the future)
At least this create a lot of drama in here!
Peace.
My 2 cents.

They've produced only prototypes after 8 years. You're giving credit where credit is not due. When the first game comes off the line, then they have produced a game.

It is interesting to speculate about the value of the machine if it does get produced and does become a hit down the road with only a handful out there. I also think that there's a ton of value in the game if it is made, but they are likely to learn the JJP lesson the same as JJP did: the hard way. You can't mass build a machine with this much 'tech and mech'© in it for the price they are selling it for and make a profit.

In the end, it is a gamble. If this was a stock I was considering purchasing, I'd run. The evidence is overwhelming that the risk is extremely high. It is beyond obvious. If intial buyers get burned, there will be zero ears available to listen to their complaints.

But Food Truck? If it's good, I'm in!

#14377 3 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

They've produced only prototypes after 8 years. You're giving credit where credit is not due. When the first game comes off the line, then they have produced a game.
It is interesting to speculate about the value of the machine if it does get produced and does become a hit down the road with only a handful out there. I also think that there's a ton of value in the game if it is made, but they are likely to learn the JJP lesson the same as JJP did: the hard way. You can't mass build a machine with this much 'tech and mech'© in it for the price they are selling it for and make a profit.
In the end, it is a gamble. If this was a stock I was considering purchasing, I'd run. The evidence is overwhelming that the risk is extremely high. It is beyond obvious. If intial buyers get burned, there will be zero ears available to listen to their complaints.
But Food Truck? If it's good, I'm in!

Let’s be honest: if they didn’t annonced anything couple of years ago and if it just come out from nowhere the result would have been really different. In a lot of other industries, people does’t care at all on what’s behind what are buying, the stock, the building rent, the engineer costs... We can speculate forever about founding, money, whatever, the important thing is they make new pinballs for people to enjoy. (At least the ones who are interested)
If people are scared, don’t like it, just move on and go buy or not something else.

I ve bought an Alien pin, the risk was high? This pin, beleive me was really reliable and I really enjoyed it. I also own a BBB with difficult to find parts.
I prefer enjoying the hobby with what I really want to buy not thinking what will happen.
I don’t see that as a probem, on the contrary, if the pin is under priced: it’s good for the buyers, Right!

Last thing: i don’t flip pinballs to make profit. If you sell your pin less than what you bought it, it’s a bit normal isn’t it? It’s like renting a pinball in your house. If the price raise... good for you.

#14378 3 years ago

I see what is going on now. They have taken all this time and spent millions on salaries and development costs to trick a couple hundred people into spending a few hundred bucks on a down payment so they can take that money and run. Those tricky bastards.

#14379 3 years ago

Just a quick update...

Deeproot updated their website and the customization options when ordering now contain details about the options. A step in the right direction.

They also added a RAZA Quick Tutorial Video. Those in this thread that have been saying there aren’t any ZOMBIES please watch!!!

#14380 3 years ago
Quoted from noitbe1:

I mean never... when you see how you can be burnt in public, how difficult it is, all the bad feedbacks for small things...

All of these companies began and survived Pinside. And some of them had a bumpy go at first too.

American Pinball
Dutch Pinball
Jersey Jack Pinball
Haggis Pinball
Multimorphic
Chicago Gaming Company
Spooky Pinball

I agree Deeproot is getting the worst of it. So ask yourself why. And Deeproot needs to ask the same question.

#14381 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

All of these companies began and survived Pinside. And some of them had a bumpy go at first too.
American Pinball
Dutch Pinball
Jersey Jack Pinball
Haggis Pinball
Multimorphic
Chicago Gaming Company
Spooky Pinball
I agree Deeproot is getting the worst of it. So ask yourself why. And Deeproot needs to ask the same question.

I’ve been in here (this thread) since the beginning. I know the story.
If I remember well, it was really hard for JJP too and their pin had a lot of issues... they are still there, good for them but they probably suffered as well.
My point was just saying: at the end if their pin are goods and desirable, that’s the most important, right?
It’s still a bit early to know what will happen. They have shown something, this is for sale, everything has started. I personnaly think they will deliver it, and the best for people who want to buy it.
In couple of years, we will see if they will still around.

-2
#14382 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Back when Zombie Adventureland still had zombies... look how far we've strayed.[quoted image]

Very far indeed. In my opinion the artwork on DRs RAZA is total crap.
Where is that video Levi you posted a few pages back? Bump that up, it was absolutely hilarious. Brutal to watch, I think I made it through maybe 4 minutes then said nope..., I cant believe those people actually stood there and listened to that crap he burped up. Maybe there was a gun to their heads somewhere off camera

#14383 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

I see what is going on now. They have taken all this time and spent millions on salaries and development costs to trick a couple hundred people into spending a few hundred bucks on a down payment so they can take that money and run. Those tricky bastards.

I’m assuming you are joking here. Lol

Yeah, this thing needs to work on a big scale and Raza is a small part of it

Gonna be tough.

Led Zeppelin on Tuesday and Alien as well.

Need to gain some traction

#14384 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I’m assuming you are joking here. Lol
Yeah, this thing needs to work on a big scale and Raza is a small part of it
Gonna be tough.
Led Zeppelin on Tuesday and Alien as well.
Need to gain some traction

Yes, that was me joking. Not saying they have made it yet, but people still think they are scamming or something. With all that has happened, I do believe they will get games shipped.

#14385 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Alien as well.

Really ... alien , missed that ... who's doing that?

#14386 3 years ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

Really ... alien , missed that ... who's doing that?

Pinball Brothers is making it. Several improvements from the original game from what I'm hearing.

Facebook Link: https://www.facebook.com/pinballbrothers

#14387 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

I see what is going on now. They have taken all this time and spent millions on salaries and development costs to trick a couple hundred people into spending a few hundred bucks on a down payment so they can take that money and run. Those tricky bastards.

The people who think they are "scamming" are implying the investors money. It's not like they put up millions of their own money just to get 25 pre-orders, lol

#14388 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Pinball Brothers is making it. Several improvements from the original game from what I'm hearing.
Facebook Link: https://www.facebook.com/pinballbrothers

Not sure how you improve. Other than parts, cab etc

I just played a few on the original

And it would be the last pin I ever sell

Alien is going to CRUSH it

But the original I think will remain a better pin

#14389 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Other than parts, cab etc

That's what I'm hearing. Improved parts which will be great for existing games if replacement is needed and more of a traditional style Bally/William cabinet. Also Dave Sanders mentioned on Kaneda of an extra magnet somewhere on the playfield.

I also heard possible new artwork but that doesn't make sense to me.

Quoted from iceman44:

Alien is going to CRUSH it

I have to agree and it's a no brainer for me to buy in.

#14390 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

That's what I'm hearing. Improved parts which will be great for existing games if replacement is needed and more of a traditional style Bally/William cabinet. Also Dave Sanders mentioned on Kaneda of an extra magnet somewhere on the playfield.
I also heard possible new artwork but that doesn't make sense to me.

I have to agree and it's a no brainer for me to buy in.

Needed improvements IMHO:
Better alien head mech
Better light engineering (very finicky design on original)
Better proximity switches
Better left ramp return plastic

Alien is an awesome game with possible the best audio of all time, a great layout, and cool ruleset.

I would never prepay for one with pinball bros and a bit concerned with the money they likely still owe (legally?) to people that got screwed the first go around. Would for sure buy with cash on the glass after playing and seeing what they improved.

#14391 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Yes, that was me joking. Not saying they have made it yet, but people still think they are scamming or something. With all that has happened, I do believe they will get games shipped.

Who has said they are scamming? I think that's your word.

Most if not all of us are talking about incompetence. 8 years to get a game to show, then recall it, then show it again? Primary designer took people's money and didn't produce a game. No manufacturing line seen so far. Parts not ordered. CEO calls LEDs "leads. "How much evidence do you need showing that this could end badly? If it's only a deposit, you might get away with just losing that I suppose.

This is the gamble purchase (or deposit), and it is one I'm not willing to take.

19
#14392 3 years ago

Oh, just found this again and it gave me a chuckle.....

dandd (resized).jpgdandd (resized).jpg
#14393 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Pinball Brothers is making it. Several improvements from the original game from what I'm hearing.
Facebook Link: https://www.facebook.com/pinballbrothers

My understanding is they are not “making it” - no factory at PB. They are redesigning parts of it and contract manufacturer is making it.

Not as much controversy on this one but some shady shit going on there too. You guys should be torching that thread too.

Or is it because it is Aliens theme?

Link provided to go torch:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-cgc-going-to-manufacture-alien-pinball/page/24#post-5999642

#14394 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Needed improvements IMHO:
Better alien head mech
Better light engineering (very finicky design on original)
Better proximity switches
Better left ramp return plastic
Alien is an awesome game with possible the best audio of all time, a great layout, and cool ruleset.
I would never prepay for one with pinball bros and a bit concerned with the money they likely still owe (legally?) to people that got screwed the first go around. Would for sure buy with cash on the glass after playing and seeing what they improved.

What was wrong with the proxy switches? Do they miss detections?

#14395 3 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

DR is literally RE-inventing every single element of the pinball machine as we know it, hardware and software...

You must not know how pinball machines are put together. 99% of these machines are same old.

#14396 3 years ago

So I see they are going ahead and releasing a game several of us funded with Jop. I would urge everyone not to support this until those of us that were robbed by Jpoop are made whole.

Giving Deeproot money now has serious risks. Unproven manufacturers have a long track record of disappointing and leaving those that paid, with nothing

I helped fund this game and am getting screwed. Never again! Caution to all.

I do wish the other designers well and hope Deeproot can make things right and not release a game that many have paid for without any compensation whatsoever.

#14397 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Fire and Brimstone is a terrible name. Makes you think of super right wing Southern baptists and all the most negative aspects of religion.
I was gonna do a Cecile b Demille/Michael Bay/God of War like Bible game. But then I made the mistake of mentioning the idea to Robert and here we are...

I like your chances of making that game before he does.

#14398 3 years ago
Quoted from Mercifull:

I don’t know what Bens connection (and beef) is with Deeproot but he seems even more disgruntled against them than Homepin who, from what I gather, “stole” some of his code (at least during the prototyping stage).

That’s right. You don’t know. There’s quite a history there.

#14399 3 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Diner meets Big Betty's Truck Stop: what's not to love? With an open mind, I think this (along with Yukon Yeti) is the best of their original / unlicensed concepts. The "unlicensed oh noes" are still inherent, but it could be lots of goofy fun if done properly.

Objectives like frying onions or putting mustard on your hot dog are fine when spending a few quarters on location. Or $1,500 on a Diner. But for $6,000 - $9,000 I need something a little more captivating.

#14400 3 years ago

what's the cost of these?

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