Crystal Lake, IL
Quoted from Steve_in_Escalon:Unless you have a new job, there are times when a late paycheck is better than no paycheck.
Oh yeah, get your ducks in a row, but as soon as you do, get the hell out.
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Magic Girl
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
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Deeproot, 2020
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Look, depending on where you live in the country, just quitting when your employer misses payroll isn’t an option. Sure some places have broad industries and there’s lots of jobs. But a lot of places don’t. And what if you have a baby at home? Quitting that job means no health insurance.most people can’t up and move (they rely on family for childcare), they can’t quickly jump jobs, etc. and make no mistake, Robert is a conman and conning employees to stay on after missed payroll is just the same as conning old ladies out of their retirement savings.
Deeproot employees are victims too.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:If your employer can’t keep payroll straight it’s time to go.
Worked a temp job for Manpower once. They sent group wide email one week that said they didn’t get our hours submitted to corporate and we would not be getting paid on time. I called the office manager and explained their error was not my problem and when I arrived at the office I expected my paycheck would be ready or we would be having a discussion about their priorities going forward. I am a 6’6” 210 lb former Marine. When I arrived at the office I went to the manager’s office and told the person the manager was meeting with to give us a few moments. I closed the door and the blinds. I reiterated my stated position and left with my check. Never happened again.
Lol. Go to jail over a missed paycheck. Sounds reasonable.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Ruh roh?[quoted image]
Yeah, looks like they're going after everyone who was a 'finder' for Bobby.
Quoted from sgtski1978:Yeah, looks like they're going after everyone who was a 'finder' for Bobby.
Yup. The one I downloaded wants $328k.
Quoted from sgtski1978:Yeah, looks like they're going after everyone who was a 'finder' for Bobby.
You mean anyone that was part of the financial side, who helped sell this crap?
Quoted from Roostking:You mean anyone that was part of the financial side, who helped sell this crap?
Yeah, basically anyone who brought Bobby a customer got a fee. It seems as if the trustee is now trying to claw back those finders fees.
anyone who profited from the investment side of the ponzi they will go after, like these guys who sold this deals. Others who were paid, such as employees or vendors won't have an issue, if they can show they provided work/product in exchange for that money. In some cases like this they will attempt to claw back more than just profits from those who got paid out early, but seems that here just going after profits.
I do wonder about the zidware customers who got refunds, as that is a bit of a grey area, but suspect outside of who they would pursue.
Quoted from sgtski1978:Yeah, basically anyone who brought Bobby a customer got a fee. It seems as if the trustee is now trying to claw back those finders fees.
As they should. There are some very predatory practices that go on and using ignorance as an excuse to make easy money should have that cost.
My mother’s husband got roped into some high commission investments and ended up passing away less than a year later. Some lucrative death benefits kicked in that she got talked into rolling back in for another huge commission on the advisors end. This was when the market was as low as it could go in 2008. I got it cancelled in the 11th hour boy was he pissed. I pulled 15 grand right out his hands. He of course dropped her as a client right after. Half a mil account was not quite so sweet once her son got involved… Haha!
Quoted from Roostking:You mean anyone that was part of the financial side, who helped sell this crap?
Yeah anybody who watched the Madoff doc on netflix (really everybody who wants to understand these scams should watch it) knows how this works now. In particular there was some investment firm in Connecticut (Fairfield, which is somehow still in business) that steered billions of dollars into the ponzi and "earned" around $500 million for themselves while doing so.
You go after anybody who sold the ponzi scheme and pocketed fees while doing so
You go after anybody who profited from the ponzi scheme (took out more than they put in)
You go after everybody who ran the Ponzi scheme.
A big chunk of the money is simply gone forever. Never going to get back all the money Bobby spent on flying around the VIP pinball media. The money spent on the tex-mex buffet is history. The courtside seats for the Spurs cash ain't coming back. Everything Bobby blew on vacations and gifts, most of that stuff probably gone too. And of course the money he spent assembling his dream team of out of work pinball designers.
It's a long and tangled web to try to claw back the ponzi money. Which is strange since it wasn't a Ponzi since he always genuinely intended to produce pinball machines!
1 week later
Quoted from Richthofen:Look, depending on where you live in the country, just quitting when your employer misses payroll isn’t an option. Sure some places have broad industries and there’s lots of jobs. But a lot of places don’t. And what if you have a baby at home? Quitting that job means no health insurance.most people can’t up and move (they rely on family for childcare), they can’t quickly jump jobs, etc. and make no mistake, Robert is a conman and conning employees to stay on after missed payroll is just the same as conning old ladies out of their retirement savings.
Deeproot employees are victims too.
You don't up and quit and walk out the door - but you start looking for a new job so you can quit and walk out the door sometime in the near future
A new SEC lawyer petitions the court to enter the fray pro hac vice.
Wikipedia tells me "pro hac vice is a practice in common law jurisdictions whereby a lawyer who has not been admitted to practice in a certain jurisdiction is allowed to participate in a particular case in that jurisdiction."
Wonder if he's an SEC ringer for particular types of stuff. As far as I know, Bobby is the only defendant of any kind that remains in the SEC's crosshairs, with all of the others reaching settlement.
SEC-84-2023.02.09.pdfQuoted from blueberryjohnson:A new SEC lawyer petitions the court to enter the fray pro hac vice.
Wikipedia tells me "pro hac vice is a practice in common law jurisdictions whereby a lawyer who has not been admitted to practice in a certain jurisdiction is allowed to participate in a particular case in that jurisdiction."
Wonder if he's an SEC ringer for particular types of stuff. As far as I know, Bobby is the only defendant of any kind that remains in the SEC's crosshairs, with all of the others reaching settlement.
[quoted image]
The first google result for Mr. Divine may provide a clue:
Screenshot 2023-02-09 at 11.43.02 AM (resized).png
$60 million in fraud. That number rings a bell.
The man certainly does appear to have a speciality.
https://www.mortgagefraudblog.com/man-sentenced-to-prison-for-short-sale-fraud-scheme/
https://wobm.com/toms-river-woman-sentenced-for-critical-role-in-mortgage-fraud-scheme/
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2557906226999/150m-bank-fraud-teaneck-landlord-gets-8-years-no-parole
Screenshot 2023-02-09 at 11.45.03 AM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-02-09 at 11.45.30 AM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-02-09 at 11.45.47 AM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-02-09 at 11.46.08 AM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-02-09 at 11.46.34 AM (resized).png
I don't know how I missed this.... I periodically check Pacer for new cases with certain keywords.
Anyway - there's a "new" case here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66623748/lowe-trustee-v-mueller/
In this case the Bankruptcy Trustee (Lowe) is suing Robert for damages between $3 and $70M (pg 26) of initial complaint.
Keeping in line with everything else deeproot related, I guess filing bankruptcy is the worst thing Robert could've done?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:The first google result for Mr. Divine may provide a clue:
zzzzzzcapsule_616x353 RESIZE (resized).jpgLooks like there's a junk dealer on ebay selling boards, a RAZA t-shirt, and other leftovers from deeproot
ebay.com link: sch
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Inside:I don't know how I missed this.... I periodically check Pacer for new cases with certain keywords.
Anyway - there's a "new" case here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66623748/lowe-trustee-v-mueller/
In this case the Bankruptcy Trustee (Lowe) is suing Robert for damages between $3 and $70M (pg 26) of initial complaint.
Keeping in line with everything else deeproot related, I guess filing bankruptcy is the worst thing Robert could've done?
Interesting. I had that original adversary complaint doc from its filing in the regular bankruptcy case. Did not know that it created a spinoff case you've linked with its own set of additional docs.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Interesting. I had that original adversary complaint doc from its filing in the regular bankruptcy case. Did not know that it created a spinoff case you've linked with its own set of additional docs.
I do a search for "Mueller, Robert" on PACER here and there: https://pcl.uscourts.gov/pcl/index.jsf
Quoted from ForceFlow:Looks like there's a junk dealer on ebay selling boards, a RAZA t-shirt, and other leftovers from deeproot
ebay.com link: usr
ebay.com link: sch
Yeah this guy bought a couple of the racks of parts and some other random lots on auction day. He is just an auction reseller, no prior pinball knowledge. It’s weird that so much of it is just now getting listed. He’d listed a bunch of stuff back in April shortly after the sale too. He had multiple pallets worth of parts.
Quoted from play_pinball:Yeah this guy bought a couple of the racks of parts and some other random lots on auction day. He is just an auction reseller, no prior pinball knowledge. It’s weird that so much of it is just now getting listed. He’d listed a bunch of stuff back in April shortly after the sale too. He had multiple pallets worth of parts.
He better get used to relisting. Not a single deal to be had…
Quoted from LORDDREK:He better get used to relisting. Not a single deal to be had…
That 3x t-shirt wont last long. There are more people in this hobby who can wear a 3x shirt than a L shirt. Those prices on the other stuff....oof.
Quoted from sgtski1978:New York lawyer coming down to Texas to show ol Bobby how law is done.
Worked pretty well in My Cousin Vinny...
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:A new SEC lawyer petitions the court to enter the fray pro hac vice.
quoted image]
I think he is a dept of justice attorney who specializes in white collar fraud. He seems to have a lot of experience prosecuting complicated fraud cases.
I had never heard the term "Special Asst US Attorney" before. Good for the victims that the US Attorney in this district had the good sense to bring this specialist into the case.
Quoted from JodyG:That 3x t-shirt wont last long. There are more people in this hobby who can wear a 3x shirt than a L shirt. Those prices on the other stuff....oof.
No your right. I actually scored one in 2X during the early days of EBay Deeproot it should come as no surprise the shirt is actually a really nice quality cut.
Quoted from LORDDREK:No your right. I actually scored one in 2X during the early days of EBay Deeproot it should come as no surprise the shirt is actually a really nice quality cut.
Then put your stinking shirt on, you damn dirty ape.
I'd be interested in some of the used P3 boards if they were like 50% less than what they're asking. Just not enough savings vs getting them new and under warranty.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I'd be interested in some of the used P3 boards if they were like 50% less than what they're asking. Just not enough savings vs getting them new and under warranty.
Yeah just your typical “I know what I got…” type of listings.
Quoted from jamesmc:I think he is a dept of justice attorney who specializes in white collar fraud. He seems to have a lot of experience prosecuting complicated fraud cases.
I had never heard the term "Special Asst US Attorney" before. Good for the victims that the US Attorney in this district had the good sense to bring this specialist into the case.
At this point he's being brought into the SEC case. Presumably he's also there for the long-awaited criminal one, too.
Quoted from JodyG:That 3x t-shirt wont last long. There are more people in this hobby who can wear a 3x shirt than a L shirt. Those prices on the other stuff....oof.
Deeproot... pinball for the masses with big asses.
I'll see myself out.
Quoted from gandamack:If anybody knows the address of his Kauai condo, please post. I am wondering if it goes to auction?
I found it a long time ago and posted at least a screenshot in this thread.
And we learned from the court filings there were actually two Hawaii condos.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I found it a long time ago and posted at least a screenshot in this thread.
And we learned from the court filings there were actually two Hawaii condos.
Going through your posts. Wow, some amazing forensic accounting on your part. Thanks for posting the documentation.
Quoted from sgtski1978:The man just does not realize he's been defeated.
Typical blustering Blobert. The man could be sentenced to life in prison and still wouldn't think he was defeated.
Given he is looking at a likely prison sentence, no surprise his approach is to deny and stall. However, this is not a case where the other side is going to get tired of it and just give up pursuing justice.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Only now recognizing the interesting state of affairs at which we've arrived which is more or less deeproot vs. Robert.
[quoted image]
I do not consent! To this thing happened three weeks ago! Of which I am not a party!
Quoted from Inside:I do not consent! To this thing happened three weeks ago! Of which I am not a party!
Alrighty then!
For the couple people on this thread that might be able to provide suggestions or opinions, I have kind of a similar situation regarding a bankruptcy sale/trustee issue and property that was kept by a former employee that I'd like to ask about what kind of recourse is available to recover said property. We can discuss it in PMs as to not derail this thread.
For clarification; it was not my company nor my employee. I have no vested interest or monetary involvement. It was a friend of mine that this all happened to and I want that former employee to not be able to personally profit of my friend's loss.
Quoted from Miguel351:For the couple people on this thread that might be able to provide suggestions or opinions, I have kind of a similar situation regarding a bankruptcy sale/trustee issue and property that was kept by a former employee that I'd like to ask about what kind of recourse is available to recover said property. We can discuss it in PMs as to not derail this thread.
For clarification; it was not my company nor my employee. I have no vested interest or monetary involvement. It was a friend of mine that this all happened to and I want that former employee to not be able to personally profit of my friend's loss.
If I remember right, Ben Heck is now free and clear to provide legal advice without a license! 
Let's remember the good times....about two years ago people were sent this to reassure them Bobby Mueller wasn't in way over his head after he took dozens (lol) of preorders
=======
Dear RAZA Customer:
First, thank you for your business and decision to buy in to an amazing machine we spent years designing to bring out the best of Popadiuk’s original theme and layout. As I am writing this email, I am aware of the weight of accountability in fulfilling orders of quality machines as soon as possible. I am providing the below update as a matter of goodwill and transparency, knowing that it will be unfortunately posted online or misreported by podcasts (plural), twisted in ways where truth, civility, and rationality go to die.
ORDERS
We received orders (paid or goodwill) for ~70 Arcade Editions of RAZA, and ~60 Xtra Editions of RAZA. We will round up to 160 total RAZA Games with most of the remaining games available for sale at $8,000USD starting price for the Arcade Edition, and $13,000USD flat fee for the Xtra Edition. More details on timing of that later. After all RAZA games have sold we will publish (for historical purposes - IPDB), the exact game counts.
UL/CE
We were not able to get our machines scheduled into the labs for UL testing or International/CE testing until two weeks ago. So far I understand that most tests have been passed. I understand it can take up to 5 weeks to complete testing and receiving reports and certification. We will not be able to release/ship any games until those are complete.
PARTS
With most vendors going dark for the last two weeks of December and first week of January, we have orders in for about 70% of the BOM. There are three main hiccups:
• Long lead times in general and vendors promising one thing before they get their money, than quickly changing their tune after getting their money is the most prevalent reason for the delayed orders and parts. There have been some great vendors who are exceeding expectations; and we sincerely appreciate their efforts.
• The lockbar we designed as more ergonomically usable is complex with two stamps and several welded reinforcements. The complexity of the design has caused a large number of vendors to pass on it with the cost and time frame we needed it. We finally have two vendors that are willing to do small runs. The problem is getting them into their already full production schedule to arrive asap.
• The lighted side panel prototypes we had for our 2 Xtra editions had some wear/tear and technical issues with frayed wires and sizing. It has taken the last 60+ days working with several vendors to redesign them to be more durable and allow spacing for leg protectors or cup holders, etc.
PRODUCTION
We have the first lines ready to go and will proceed in prepping what we can while waiting on parts and certification. Since there are tiered production stations the ones that can produce deliverables will start in the next few weeks. I made the decision not to show production lines or illusory and deceptive pictures of parts or lines or cabinets for many obvious reasons. The only thing that matters is you getting your brand new RAZA on your doorstep in working condition as soon as possible. That is a picture that will actually mean something. We fully look forward to seeing your delivery pics and unboxing videos posted or tagged to one or more of our social media pages.
ADDITIONAL STREAMS
We have received lots of requests for additional video coverage or streaming. We finally got all the cameras for our internal rig. But (and being completely honest) I have requested that they be delayed for now. Our creative team is working hard on other projects and deadlines. I feel that since orders are over, adding additional content in the short term is moot.
EXPECTATIONS
Disappointing news may still have a bright side. We expect to receive parts through the first week of March at this point with the first RAZAs leaving mid-March. The certifications for UL/CE should also be done around the time. While that may sound disappointing to wait another couple of weeks for games, there is a bright side. Since the run of RAZA machines is limited, we should be done much quicker than our anticipated and originally announced time of 3.5-4 months.
We have had some of you contact us about jumping the line. It doesn’t make any sense at this point. You and other customers will be playing RAZA sooner than you think.
NEXT COMMUNICATION
I plan to update customers again by the end of February. Thank you again for your trust and business. Thank you for your patience. We look forward to exceeding expectations and we are grateful for you allowing us a chance to do so. If you have any questions, please contact us at [email protected] or by visiting the website. Best! -Robert J. Mueller
1 week later
Didn't see anyone mention it yet- looks like Bobby's trial date is set for October 16th, 2023 per the latest scheduling order. Maybe he'll be in jail by Christmas?
Quoted from ufotofu:looks like Bobby's trial date is set for October 16th, 2023
I didn't know that criminal charges were pending.
Are you sure that's not a civil trial?
Quoted from RCA1:I didn't know that criminal charges were pending.
Are you sure that's not a civil trial?
Ah, fair point- this would be for the civil trial. It's interesting that the criminal aspect of the case is periodically mentioned, but I haven't seen anything pop up anywhere.
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