(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
Honolulu, HI
Quoted from Richthofen:This is the "flood the zone with shit" defense mentioned by Steve Bannon. You don't have to tell the truth. Just tell so many plausible-sounding but false statements that its impossible to debunk them all, and create doubt as to whether the actual truth can be known at all. All Robert is trying to do is sucker the judge with enough plausible sounding info that he dismisses the case.
Could be the strategy, but Robert isn't seeking dismissal: he's seeking a rejection for summary judgment (in the favor of the plaintiff) and for the jury trial to move forward as scheduled (currently scheduled, I believe, early December).
Robert's experience in the pinball industry was him being an enthusiastic newbie collector, with knowledge of a financial tool to finance his bar stool fantasy.
I seem to recall him bragging that he had been collecting games for only four years before before conjuring up Deeproot Pinball and with no manufacturing background.
If my memory is correct, I think it was on a podcast or at the Chicago Expo show. Donno
Quoted from Mr68:Robert's experience in the pinball industry was him being an enthusiastic newbie collector, with knowledge of a financial tool to finance his bar stool fantasy.
I seem to recall him bragging that he had been collecting games for only four years before before conjuring up Deeproot Pinball and with no manufacturing background.
If my memory is correct, I think it was on a podcast or at the Chicago Expo show. Donno
A tale that is also recounted deposition transcripts I just uploaded. So it would seem one can become an expert quite quickly.
So does Robert not realize that if he wants to claim to be a pinball expert that he needs to contend with
A) a lot of public statements and interviews of him saying blatantly false information, outright lies, and showing a general ignorance of industry history
B) numerous actual industry professionals with decades of experience that he mocked or cheated in business exist and might be willing to provide their expert testimony
C) the simple fact he spent over 30 million dollars, sold under 200 machines, and couldn’t finish a prototype after several years
d) all the above
Quoted from TreyBong420:So does Robert not realize that if he wants to claim to be a pinball expert that he needs to contend with
A) a lot of public statements and interviews of him saying blatantly false information, outright lies, and showing a general ignorance of industry history
B) numerous actual industry professionals with decades of experience that he mocked or cheated in business exist
C) the simple fact he spent over 30 million dollars, sold under 200 machines, and couldn’t finish a prototype after several years
Here I'd be interested in understanding from lawyer types what goes into expert witnesses. Presumably, the SEC can challenge the expertness of any of the defense's proposed experts, no? That would be embarrassing.
I also wonder if the SEC will bring on its own pinball expert to counter the defense's claims when it comes to discussing how deeproot ran its pinball business. That would seem logical since it seems that the defense wants to make that part of the conversation, based on its most recently-filed exhibits.
I mean, where does the Hawaii condo remitted to his parents trust factor in? That is certainly a very disruptive way to run a pinball company, by buying a vacation home for your parents.
Quoted from Richthofen:I mean, where does the Hawaii condo remitted to his parents trust factor in? That is certainly a very disruptive way to run a pinball company, by buying a vacation home for your parents.
I've only skimmed some of the many new docs, so I don't know precisely. However, what I think I've seen is the framing that Robert was entitled to compensation and argues that using investment funds to make personal purchases was allegedly not prohibited by the terms of the PPMs. And so, it's not a problem.
I believe I saw an argument that the terms of the PPMs allowed for up to 20% of the money to go toward "nominal" administrative costs, and that administrative costs could include compensation, and so up to 20% of the money could go to Robert. But don't quote me on that because I've not had time to review this stuff carefully, and don't know when I will. Which is why I uploaded so many docs: to give anyone with the interest and bandwidth to dig in.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Here I'd be interested in understanding from lawyer types what goes into expert witnesses. Presumably, the SEC can challenge the expertness of any of the defense's proposed experts, no? That would be embarrassing.
I also wonder if the SEC will bring on its own pinball expert to counter the defense's claims when it comes to discussing how deeproot ran its pinball business. That would seem logical since it seems that the defense wants to make that part of the conversation, based on its most recently-filed exhibits.
Could you imagine George Gomez being called to the stand to testify for the SEC as an expert pinball witness?
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I think it is very similar to this:
Haha, I work for a Control Systems Integrator and this video comes up once a year. Always makes me laugh.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Correct. Quad manufacturing was four.
Hmmm. For stability reasons, should they have bolted the pairs together and stuck with "Stable Quad Manufacturing" as a selling point?
Quoted from JStoltz:Haha, I work for a Control Systems Integrator and this video comes up once a year. Always makes me laugh.
Insane video lol
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I think it is very similar to this:
I prefer the turbo encabulator, far better technology
Quoted from toyotaboy:I prefer the turbo encabulator, far better technology
Valid submission!. The only difference would be that many people know what a "transmission" is. The first video, who the eff knows what they are even working on!
Quoted from toyotaboy:I prefer the turbo encabulator, far better technology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_encabulator
I want to start putting NO-BLO fuses in my pins. 
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Here I'd be interested in understanding from lawyer types what goes into expert witnesses. Presumably, the SEC can challenge the expertness of any of the defense's proposed experts, no? That would be embarrassing.
I also wonder if the SEC will bring on its own pinball expert to counter the defense's claims when it comes to discussing how deeproot ran its pinball business. That would seem logical since it seems that the defense wants to make that part of the conversation, based on its most recently-filed exhibits.
Here's a link to an article about qualifying as an expert in a court proceeding.
But, allow me to offer my professional legal analysis as follows:
In my opinion, RM's chances of qualifying as a pinball industry expert are on par with Greatwich John becoming an English grammar professor.
I went through the defense's response, skipping the legal arguments and case law stuff (which the SEC will cover in its response to the response) to highlight spicy or eyebrow-raising bits.
Screenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.00.44 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.01.43 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.02.21 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.02.57 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.04.24 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.04.56 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.11.45 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.12.28 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.19.52 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-19 at 8.22.12 PM (resized).pngQuoted from blueberryjohnson:I've only skimmed some of the many new docs, so I don't know precisely. However, what I think I've seen is the framing that Robert was entitled to compensation and argues that using investment funds to make personal purchases was allegedly not prohibited by the terms of the PPMs. And so, it's not a problem.
I mean, what is the point of "taking compensation" in the form of a condo which was transferred to his parents trust, late in the fraud, if not to hide it from a bankruptcy proceeding? If he is paying himself compensation he should have issued himself a paycheck. He used the company as a piggy bank taking as much as he wants. No other real corporation behaves like that. Also, good luck explaining to the IRS why he paid himself a million dollars to buy a condo but didn't withhold taxes for it.
While trying to read I kept hearing Charlie Brown's teacher. Blah, blah, blah.
"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the facts and the law are against you, pound the table and yell like hell".
Carl Sandburg
By the time the SEC got involved, deeproot was already several months behind trying to finish the design and UL certification of the less than 200 games they sold
I've seen the prototypes for the follow up games and they weren't close to finished either
Quoted from ZNET:In my opinion, RM's chances of qualifying as a pinball industry expert are on par with Greatwich John becoming an English grammar professor.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from jamesmc:Deleted post
Add in the Payroll Relief Programs to employers for Covid.
Quoted from Mr68:Add in the Payroll Relief Programs to employers for Covid.
Something Robert availed himself of to the the tune of a few million dollars. And yet there were employees not getting paid and getting laid off. Were the timelines for those things in compliance with the PPP requirements?
Honestly reading through the defense submission and the exhibits and it's straight out of Liar Liar.
I had the Jim Carrey GIF, but Pinside had other plans.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I went through the defense's response, skipping the legal arguments and case law stuff (which the SEC will cover in its response to the response) to highlight spicy or eyebrow-raising bits.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I guess he's moved onto JPOP being his lead counsel... that's right up his alley. "It all would have worked if it wasn't for you dang kids!"
Excerpts from Exhibit A-1
Screenshot 2023-09-20 at 7.48.33 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-20 at 7.50.07 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-20 at 7.51.30 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-20 at 7.51.59 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-20 at 7.54.21 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-20 at 7.54.35 PM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-09-20 at 7.55.18 PM (resized).pngLike he was over pinball, like toppers and stuff, like i just walked in and was like given a job
lmao
Excerpts from Exhibit A-2
$2.75 million a year on rent.
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Quoted from Beechwood:Such a good and telling read.
Yeah it's interesting but how much longer will this go on without someone bringing up the PinBar or PinPod? Seems like this is where the testimony needs to go.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Yeah it's interesting but how much longer will this go on without someone bringing up the PinBar or PinPod? Seems like this is where the testimony needs to go.
Robert Mueller makes his entrance in court by being wheeled into the courtroom and busting out of the Pin Pod (patent pending) to show he did in fact have the goods.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Robert Mueller makes his entrance in court by being wheeled into the courtroom and busting out of the Pin Pod (patent pending) to show he did in fact have the goods.
You sure the PinPod(Patent Pending) will fith through the door?
Quoted from Roostking:You sure the PinPod(Patent Pending) will fith through the door?
Any door that would accommodate his ego would be compatible with PinPod (Patent Pending), a total value solution.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Any door that would accommodate his ego would be compatible with PinPod (Patent Pending), a total value solution.
I also had a gag reflex occur when he said "total value solution". Good thing everyone had masks on, because I bet the guests had some pretty funny expressions going on behind them.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Excerpts from Exhibit A-1
I don't know who the guy giving this testimony is, but it's apparent he was close to Robert and at a high level. And yet, this witness had no idea of what all was going on at Deeproot because Robert controlled everything and kept it to himself.
True, this witness was confused and had suspecitions back then, but nothing concrete that he could be a whistleblower.
Now, let's go back to shortly after Deeproot had its meltdown and people were blaming Steve Bowden for not sounding the alarm. Steve Bowden was in charge of doing the RAZA game rules...
And yet gossip was set forth, and believed, that Steve Bowden should have known and he should have said something.
The same thing happened (in this thread) with Ben Heck after his brief association with JPOP.
Man, there's a lot of people that should be ashamed of themselves for originating, spreading and believing that shit.
Nearly every pinball failure can be traced back to JPOP.
Williams has one last chance to save pinball, JPOP puts in minimal effort. Williams closes doors in 1999.
JPOP starts zidware in 2011, goes bankrupt 4 years later
Skit-b starts in 2013 seeing how JPOP took pre-order money.. makes 3 prototypes, takes the money and runs.
JPOP joins American pinball to build the games he promised customers, adds no value creating a Houdini pinball that's unplayable.
JPOP joins deeproot, makes a couple white woods, the 3 prototypes take forever to finish because he builds a ramp that isn't shootable. He's probably also responsible for the complicated cabinet and custom ultra wide display based on his many zidware prototypes (oops the custom playfield glass almost doesn't clear the shooter rod)
Quoted from Mr68:I don't know who the guy giving this testimony is, but it's apparent he was close to Robert and at a high level.
I list the exhibits from which I'm excerpting so people can check if they're interested. First two exhibits excerpted are from deeproot funds people, who self report that they weren't involved in the pinball business and so had little familiarity with it. There are later ones from a deeproot pinball guy and Robert. People are welcome to go through them. I'm just checking out one or two a day because don't want to spend too long on it at once.
Quoted from Mr68:True, this witness was confused and had suspecitions back then, but nothing concrete that he could be a whistleblower.
Only because the guy didn’t have the hard evidence himself. The story reads as any observer would note… you got all this going out… and nothing coming in for a long time… how is that going to work? It’s simply a tale of objective reasoning verses blind faith. The same reasoning a simple OUTSIDE observer on the internet could raise a flag of concern once basic numbers started becoming public.
The employees had even more insight because they could make simple observations about the kind of expenditures going on and have insights into the actual feasibility of the product that was to be made. Insights that did put them above outsiders or non-pinball people inside the deeproot families.
Everyone could make observations. If from the outside we could smell the stink from miles away… it had to stink inside the walls. This testimony just reenforces that point. Even inside, observers didn’t find it credible, and Robert kept things away from scrutiny by refusing to allow independent auditing
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I list the exhibits from which I'm excerpting so people can check if they're interested. First two exhibits excerpted are from deeproot funds people, who self report that they weren't involved in that business and so had little familiarity with it. There are later ones from a deeproot pinball guy and Robert. People are welcome to go through them. I'm just checking out one or two a day because don't want to spend too long on it at once.
Thanks for the clairity.
That said, I believe the point I was making will hold true throughout any further testimony.
That rush to judgment, based on cruel imagination, was nothing more than hurtful gossip to two innocent people.
Quoted from Mr68:Thanks for the clairity.
That said, I believe the point I was making will hold true throughout any further testimony.
That rush to judgment, based on cruel imagination, was nothing more than hurtful gossip to two innocent people.
It very well may. I just wanted to clarify the sources so people don't run to faulty conclusions. The docs are long (and often boring), so I'm not excerpting to summarize and present the full picture from the full documents (which are but excerpts of deposition testimony themselves).
Quoted from flynnibus:Only because the guy didn’t have the hard evidence himself. The story reads as any observer would note… you got all this going out… and nothing coming in for a long time… how is that going to work? It’s simply a tale of objective reasoning verses blind faith. The same reasoning a simple OUTSIDE observer on the internet could raise a flag of concern once basic numbers started becoming public.
The employees had even more insight because they could make simple observations about the kind of expenditures going on and have insights into the actual feasibility of the product that was to be made. Insights that did put them above outsiders or non-pinball people inside the deeproot families.
Everyone could make observations. If from the outside we could smell the stink from miles away… it had to stink inside the walls. This testimony just reenforces that point. Even inside, observers didn’t find it credible, and Robert kept things away from scrutiny by refusing to allow independent auditing
Flynn
I'm not certain the reason for your post quoting me. I agree with you and my meaning was basicly the same, only in far fewer words.
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