(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

10 months ago



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#1 10 months ago

...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zidware Claims...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eclectic Gamers Interview
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1/25/18:

From This Week in Pinball:

deeproot Pinball: New Home, New Hires, 5 Days of deeproot, EXCLUSIVE follow up interview:

http://thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-new-home-new-hires-5-days-deeproot-exclusive-follow-interview/

--------------------------------------- Original Interview--------------------------------------

UPDATE: **EXCLUSIVE interview with deeproot Pinball:

http://thisweekinpinball.com/exclusive-interview-deeproot-next-misadventure-pinball-revolution/

Please do not copy and paste the whole interview in the thread as website views are my only way to track interest, and I want to see if spending this much time on one post is "worth it". Thanks.

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/thisweekinpinball
Twitter: https://twitter.com/__twip__
Email: thisweekinpinball@gmail.com

--------------------------------------- Initial Post--------------------------------------

On today's This Week in Pinball (http://thisweekinpinball.com/twip-guardians-stream/), we tease the upcoming interview with deeproot which will be posted Thursday. Below is a preview of the interview:

deeproot Pinball has been quietly making progress on their path and plan to become a major pinball manufacturing company. They have been in licensing talks for several major pinball titles. They are currently looking to hire a Pinball Game Designer and a Game Writer (click here for the openings and descriptions including salary). They are hoping to have their manufacturing facility finalized in the next 2-3 weeks.

This Week in Pinball will be sharing an **EXCLUSIVE** interview with deeproot on Thursday. Some of the topics covered include:

Why they hired John Popadiuk
Updates on deeproot’s efforts to make Zidware customers/vendors whole
Information on their upcoming public announcement
Why deeproot Tech decided to pursue pinball as a new venture
What type of build quality to expect from deeproot (hint: using a car comparison, they want to build a Ferrari and sell it at KIA prices)
What is deeproot Pinball’s target market (hint: its you)
The possibility of mass producing Magic Girl, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, and Alice in Wonderland

deeproot is extremely confident that they will be a very successful pinball manufacturer. The interview will make some in the pinball community angry, some won’t believe anything deeproot says, and some will be skeptical but quietly hopeful/excited. Stay tuned!

Screen-Shot-2017-11-26-at-3.59.33-PM (resized).png

13
#2 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

build a Ferrari and sell it at KIA prices

/facepalm

#3 10 months ago

Going to sell $50,000 for $5,000? I can't see any way that ends badly.

#4 10 months ago

Agreed. I'll listen to/read the interview, but comparisons like "build a Ferrari and sell it at KIA prices" are just ridiculous. I get the concept, but the engine in a Ferrari costs as much as two KIAs do. These are the types of things used car salesmen say.

#5 10 months ago

Here is the link mentioned above for the deeproot job postings: https://www.indeedjobs.com/deeproot-tech/_hl/en_US

JPop's title has also changed from "Lead Game Developer" to "Game Designer" on the deeproot website.

#6 10 months ago

Couldn't care less.

#7 10 months ago

"TWIP: Is deeproot the Next Misadventure or a Pinball Revolution? "

What the shit is a Deeproot?

#8 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Here is the link mentioned above for the deeproot job postings: https://www.indeedjobs.com/deeproot-tech/_hl/en_US

Are those typical salaries for the industry?

#9 10 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

"TWIP: Is deeproot the Next Misadventure or a Pinball Revolution? "
What the shit is a Deeproot?

Their company name is probably referring to the Australian slang for the word 'root'

#10 10 months ago

For those unfamiliar with deeproot Pinball, here is a timeline for the company:

Early 2015
deeproot Tech starts its pinball division – deeproot Pinball. They contact several pinball designers and manufacturers.

Summer 2015
The deeproot team decides to shelve the pinball project until a later date.

October 2016
deeproot begins implementing their internal plan of action to start down the road to become a pinball manufacturer.

Late 2016 – 2017
deeproot begins reaching out to several pinball designers. After spending significant time weighing pros and cons, deeproot decides that pinball designer John Popadiuk (“JPop”) is the best option available. They decided this knowing there would be backlash from some in the pinball community, and knowing they would need to address John’s past mistakes with Zidware.

June 2017
deeproot begins to move forward with their plan to deal with JPop’s past and provide help to Zidware customers.

Early September 2017
Plaintiffs of the lawsuit and deeproot agree to terms on a settlement. This settlement with the Plaintiffs will be essentially the same for all other former customers of Zidware. (Details of the settlement will be revealed soon.)

September 14th, 2017
It is discovered on deeproot’s website that John Popadiuk is part of their team with the title Lead Game Development. Confidential terms of the settlement are leaked to podcasters and others in the pinball community. A thread is started on Pinside.com to inform many in the pinball community that JPop has resurfaced and is working with deeproot Pinball. Notably, Jeremy Packer (aka Zombie Yeti) makes a post which includes: “I have been asked to sign over all copyrights free and clear as if I was fully compensated. I simply refuse.” Podcasters, most notably Chris Kooluris of Kaneda’s Pinball Podcast, released podcasts with harsh criticism of deeproot. All of this, of course, caused severe negative reaction to deeproot since John Popadiuk still owed many Zidware customers refunds or machines.

September 18th, 2017
This Week in Pinball speaks to Robert Mueller, the man behind deeproot Tech, and posts “A Conversation with Deeproot“. Robert shares:
- deeproot plans to make Zidware customers whole
- Robert: “Jpop is someone that needs to be managed”
- deeproot does not plan to take any pre-order money or deposits for their machines
- deeproot may change the title or tweak the layout of John’s already designed games
- Robert believes he can build machines in a different and better way than other manufacturers are doing currently
- deeproot hopes to make a public announcement in the coming weeks, then go dark for a long time until everything is ready

October 13th, 2017
deeproot retracts its settlement offer to the Plaintiffs for reasons that will be disclosed at a later date.

October 21st, 2017
Robert Mueller and Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) speak for the first time. Jeremy verbally agrees to sign over the rights to the games in exchange for undisclosed consideration.

#11 10 months ago

Also, for those unfamiliar with John Popadiuk's history, here is a very brief summary:

A few years back, Popadiuk owned a company called Zidware, and planned to build three titles in limited quantities: Magic Girl, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (RAZA), and Alice in Wonderland (AIW). (Note: Magic Girl was to be limited to 26ish machines, and RAZA limited to 124ish machines.) Zidware customers paid in part or in full for machines that had not been built yet (the “pre-order” model). Popadiuk ran out of funds before any games were delivered.

American Pinball later built the Magic Girl machines and they were shipped to customers, however, despite the efforts of American Pinball, the game was incomplete.

Pre-order customers of RAZA and AIW have yet to receive a refund or a machine. John does not have the money to refund Zidware customers or the means to build the Zidware machines, so any form of restitution would have to come with significant financial and manufacturing help of an outside source.

For more details on the timeline of JPop from July 2011 through 2017, go to this website: http://johnpopadiuk.com/index.html

#12 10 months ago

This should be interesting....

I can't wait to hear how they intend to make people whole who lost money preordering games, plus sell Ferrari's at Kia prices and stay in business.

#13 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

The interview will make some in the pinball community angry, some won’t believe anything deeproot says, and some will be skeptical but quietly hopeful/excited.

COn0FezWoAAoqkY (resized).jpg

14
#14 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Podcasters, most notably Chris Kooluris of Kaneda’s Pinball Podcast...

FFS

17
#15 10 months ago

I had posted this in the other thread:

Quoted from pin2d:

The interview will make some in the pinball community angry, some won’t believe anything deeproot says, and some will be skeptical but quietly hopeful/excited.

oh boy.

One of my biggest take-aways from the whole jpop story, and what I've learned after handing money over to that numbskull, was to never go against my own business instincts again. If it doesn't add up, it doesn't add up. There is nothing magical about pinball that breaks all the laws of business and profit.

So if whatever you have to share about deeproot is going to make people angry, that is not how you launch a business, especially in a niche market with limited customer base. So this is DOA, and someone else now is going to lose a bunch of money chasing a pipe dream.

#16 10 months ago

Because of deeproot's affiliation with JPop, I think some will be angry no matter what deeproot says right now (which is understandable).

21
#17 10 months ago

Them teaming up with Jpop, knowing full well what a complete disaster he is and his worthless reputation, tells you all you need to know about these guys. so many red flags in your timeline as it is.

#18 10 months ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Are those typical salaries for the industry?

I saw this quote in the deeproot Tech Job Postings thread (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/deeproot-tech-job-postings):

Quoted from Ballypinball:

With the pay they offer they could hire all of Sterns design team

But I have no idea what is typical - someone else can chime in if they know...

#19 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

October 13th, 2017
deeproot retracts its settlement offer to the Plaintiffs for reasons that will be disclosed at a later date.

#20 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

October 21st, 2017
Robert Mueller and Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) speak for the first time. Jeremy verbally agrees to sign over the rights to the games in exchange for undisclosed consideration.

Good for ZY.

#21 10 months ago

A little more info:

deeproot will soon be publicly releasing a web page that will include the background of their pinball division, Goodwill Terms for past Zidware customers, how to file a claim, details of the attempted settlement between deeproot and the Plaintiffs of the lawsuit against Zidware, and over twenty FAQs regarding deeproot.

#22 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Late 2016 – 2017
deeproot begins reaching out to several pinball designers. After spending significant time weighing pros and cons, deeproot decides that pinball designer John Popadiuk (“JPop”) is the best option available. They decided this knowing there would be backlash from some in the pinball community, and knowing they would need to address John’s past mistakes with Zidware.

I've never understood the calculus that would arrive at this determination, especially after American Pinball attempted to use JPop. If a start-up wanted an established designer (makes sense, the start-up would not have the institutional knowledge to train one internally), there are a number of options devoid of baggage that could either be contracted with (Nordman does this) or hired (Oursler just was, last I heard Jon Norris remains interested in designing).

JPop's advantages I assume would be his stable of well-known/liked machines from the Williams years (though a real coup would have been to go after Brian Eddy or Mark Ritchie, if the "name recognition" angle were the primary motivator) or the desire to take advantage of a stable of existing designs (a time-saver of sorts, though obviously you take on baggage with the Zidware designs). I just couldn't figure how this outweighs the need to address the Zidware situation, the number of collectors who will likely never buy a new JPop design (regardless of the Zidware outcome, given how it was handled for years), and the quantity of design talent (both old guard and fresh blood) presently in the hobby.

But, I'm not an entrepreneur and perhaps I'm overlooking something. Just seems like more trouble for them (or any start-up) than it is worth.

#23 10 months ago
Quoted from DennisK:

I've never understood the calculus that would arrive at this determination, especially after American Pinball attempted to use JPop. If a start-up wanted an established designer (makes sense, the start-up would not have the institutional knowledge to train one internally), there are a number of options devoid of baggage that could either be contracted with (Nordman does this) or hired (Oursler just was, last I heard Jon Norris remains interested in designing).
JPop's advantages I assume would be his stable of well-known/liked machines from the Williams years (though a real coup would have been to go after Brian Eddy or Mark Ritchie, if the "name recognition" angle were the primary motivator) or the desire to take advantage of a stable of existing designs (a time-saver of sorts, though obviously you take on baggage with the Zidware designs). I just couldn't figure how this outweighs the need to address the Zidware situation, the number of collectors who will likely never buy a new JPop design (regardless of the Zidware outcome, given how it was handled for years), and the quantity of design talent (both old guard and fresh blood) presently in the hobby.
But, I'm not an entrepreneur and perhaps I'm overlooking something. Just seems like more trouble for them (or any start-up) than it is worth.

The first question in the interview is this:

Hiring John Popadiuk meant deeproot would either have to attempt to help the Zidware customers or face backlash from some in the pinball community.  Why start in pinball with that burden, why not go with a different designer?

(love your podcast by the way!)

#24 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

The first question in the interview is this:
Hiring John Popadiuk meant deeproot would either have to attempt to help the Zidware customers or face backlash from some in the pinball community.  Why start in pinball with that burden, why not go with a different designer?

Your overall topic outline is solid and I look forward to reading it!

#25 10 months ago

Also dennisk, you have great taste in logos

#26 10 months ago

At this point you might have better luck starting a John Trudeau daycare than a JPop pinball company.

#27 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Also dennisk, you have great taste in logos

It confused me for a minute...I thought you were just babbling to yourself.

Quoted from tonedef131:

At this point you might have better luck starting a John Trudeau daycare than a JPop pinball company.

*rimshot*

11
#28 10 months ago

I wish one of these upstart companies would hire Sir Brian Eddy. He can easily walk a new company through the process.

#29 10 months ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

I wish one of these upstart companies would hire Sir Brian Eddy. He can easily walk a new company through the process.

Going with anyone other than jpop would be a logical start. He's only the most hated man currently in pinball. That may change in the future after JT gets his day in court but as of now his showing up at a pinball convention to promote a new game would have potential disasterious consequences.

#30 10 months ago

Some more info about the interview coming out tomorrow. I asked about 40 questions which will hopefully shed some light on this newest potential pinball manufacturer. They have big plans beyond possibly remaking Magic Girl, and are going after some huge (grail) themes.

Here are a few of the questions asked:

If you could go back, would you still choose to work with JPop instead of a different designer?

It appears that deeproot is involved in many different ventures.  Why choose pinball as a new venture?

Do you have the capability, expertise, experience, and financial resources to manufacture pinball machines in large quantities?

Do you think deeproot can be the largest pinball manufacturer at some point in the future?

Will deeproot pinball machines be less expensive than current new pinball machines?

Do you plan for the quality and depth of the machines to be similar to, for example, a Stern Pinball machine, Spooky Pinball machine, or Jersey Jack Pinball machine?

Who is your target market for deeproot pinball machines?

What is the "5 days of deeproot"?

#31 10 months ago

How much for them to come build my machine at my house? That's the only important question.

#32 10 months ago

Wait, you didn't ask them why their logo looks like a butt?

#33 10 months ago

Some last minute changes happening with the interview, and we're going to get more info from deeproot than I initially thought. More on that later but if you have any additional questions for them, please PM me or share them here and I'll ask if I haven't already.

epthegeek and jgentry, thanks for your questions, those are important but I may skip them

#34 10 months ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Wait, you didn't ask them why their logo looks like a butt?

With some sort of *ahem* plug in it

#35 10 months ago

October 21st, 2017... Robert Mueller and Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) speak for the first time....

Curious if their first words were JPOOP and Bad. Looking forward to your interview.

Questions for deeproot: A complaint of RAZA was that it appeared to borrow elements that were not in public domain, are there any licensing or copyright issues for these game?

Also, What makes them think they will be successful where many others have failed?

Finally, what is their approach to implementing graphics for the LCD screen(s)?

#36 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Some last minute changes happening with the interview, and we're going to get more info from deeproot than I initially thought. More on that later but if you have any additional questions for them, please PM me or share them here and I'll ask if I haven't already.
epthegeek and jgentry, thanks for your questions, those are important but I may skip them

Should be a very interesting interview. I hope they truly knew what they were getting when they hired JPOP and did not think they had 3 complete games ready to go at that point. More pinball is a good thing but they are going to have a lot of hurdles to get over.

I still want to know how much it costs for JPOP to fly to Wisconsin, ruffy Ben Heck and fly him to my house to assemble my game

#37 10 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Questions for deeproot: A complaint of RAZA was that it appeared to borrow elements that were not in public domain, are there any licensing or copyright issues for these game?
Also, What makes them think they will be successful where many others have failed?
Finally, what is their approach to implementing graphics for the LCD screen(s)?

Great questions - some are already covered and I'll check with deeproot on the others.

#38 10 months ago

Can they build me a Tesla for the price of a Hyundai?

#39 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Some last minute changes happening with the interview, and we're going to get more info from deeproot than I initially thought. More on that later but if you have any additional questions for them, please PM me or share them here and I'll ask if I haven't already.
epthegeek and jgentry, thanks for your questions, those are important but I may skip them

Did Deeproot approach applejuice about his code-work? Will he be made whole? Will applejuice be helping with the code going forward? What about the other people/companies that did work for Jpop, but are still owed money by Jpop? Will Deeproot take care of these folks as well?

#40 10 months ago
Quoted from CaptK:

Did Deeproot approach applejuice about his code-work? Will he be made whole? Will applejuice be helping with the code going forward? What about the other people/companies that did work for Jpop, but are still owed money by Jpop? Will Deeproot take care of these folks as well?

Good questions, already in the interview. Thanks!

#41 10 months ago

Also, if you have questions make sure to get them to me in the next few hours as I'll need plenty of time to pull everything together this evening.

#42 10 months ago

I don't understand why hiring Jpop as a designer would mean they have obligations to customer's of his failed business. Did they also buy the remnants of zidware, whatever assets may actually exist, as well as liabilities?

13
#43 10 months ago

I don't even think we have to listen to this to know that this whole thing will not end well.

Jpop is poison. Going to him despite EVERYTHING WE ALL KNOW just shows they're morons...who alienates their potential customer base right off the bat!??!

F Deeproot.

#44 10 months ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

I don't understand why hiring Jpop as a designer would mean they have obligations to customer's of his failed business. Did they also buy the remnants of zidware, whatever assets may actually exist, as well as liabilities?

They're talking about releasing his 3 zidware games, that was all developed with our money.

#45 10 months ago

I'm ready for some hot Jpop action for the price of a Kia. Bring that shit on!

What's left for John to rob from the EM graveyard? Rototargets? Flipping Flags?

15
#46 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What's left for John to rob from the EM graveyard? Rototargets? Flipping Flags?

There is one big idea he could steal that he hasn't yet........ actually completing a game.

#47 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What's left for John to rob from the EM graveyard? Rototargets? Flipping Flags?

Well I'm down with all of those, but someone has to be first to bring back Magna Saves.

#48 10 months ago

There's Magnasave in Magic Girl. Well, just "save" as the "magna" part wasn't installed. So, I guess, not even "save".

As you were.

#49 10 months ago

I have no horse in this race - I'm not effected one way or the other if deeproot becomes a major pinball manufacturer or is a total failure, and I wasn't a Zidware customer.

If I were owed something from Zidware though, and knowing that right now JPOP has no funds to pay back Zidware customers and no means to make the machines without help...if deeproot can provide restitution to those effected by JPOP's past mistakes, isn't that a good thing? Or is JPOP so hated that - even if deeproot makes those effected whole - since they hired him, they'll never be accepted in pinball?

#50 10 months ago
Quoted from pin2d:

I have no horse in this race - I'm not effected one way or the other if deeproot becomes a major pinball manufacturer or is a total failure, and I wasn't a Zidware customer.
If I were owed something from Zidware though, and knowing that right now JPOP has no funds to pay back Zidware customers and no means to make the machines without help...if deeproot can provide restitution to those effected by JPOP's past mistakes, isn't that a good thing? Or is JPOP so hated that - even if deeproot makes those effected whole - since they hired him, they'll never be accepted in pinball?

I think the issue is the Zidware suckers have already been "made whole" like 3 times and for the most part it always disastrously implodes. It's like a very sadistic Groundhog Day game for these folks.

I'll quote Ben heck "This can only end in tears."

Except for like 18 "lucky" Magic Girl owners I guess.

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