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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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There are 12961 posts in this topic. You are on page 230 of 260.
#11451 33 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

The. Line. Is. Everything. And I haven't seen any evidence that deerpoot has one.

I think he still has this vision that he will build a game interconnectivity framework that he can sell to the other companies and license their patent pending concepts like the cabinet features. (INSTEAD of being a pinball manufacturer) ( and things which stern and others will never pay for)

Like JPOP before him... believe if you just have great enough ideas, get it far enough people buy in, then sell the concept to someone else to complete. I think JPOP saw his peers doing designs and selling them to Stern, etc and wanted that to be him.

But this is a strategy to build an online platform you can't go in alone with... you need the business partnerships with the actual game companies and buy in to codevelop the stuff. If JJP and Stern have spent all their time building their own platforms inhouse... are they going to turn around and outlay cash and fees to another vendor to use their 'Xbox Live' equivalent?

I think someone could have sold this to the vendors before... and offer subscriptions to buyers.. but I think it might be late now, and I bet most don't want to buddy up with ol' Robert.

Should have spent his millions building the cloud service, and use his money to jump start the resource starved JJP/Stern. Offer development resources and people to them to implement the clients into their games and co-develop value added features. The biggest challenge would be likely fighting the idea of shared or common features across different companies.. and how custom to go. Then offer the service to end-users either direct or as a white label.

Scorebit is doing this model.. in a bit of a different path as they are basically a bolt-on vs integrated into the games... but that would be similar GTM concept.

#11452 33 days ago
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#11453 33 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

Not to mention app development, security, etc. Someone has to create the app you're going to use to communicate with the game. You gotta get the app accepted on the respective app stores. Of course, you have to lock out joe public from messing with your game on location, so the app has to have security and now you have user accounts and ACLs. Yea.. "just a phone."
4 buttons behind a locked coindoor work amazingly well by comparison.

But... the beauty is most of that stuff you don't have to re-invent the wheel for. A high school kid can do those things to get quick and dirty off the ground. The challenge for this space is we are used to big boxes of bricks that are static and just keep going along. Anything attached to the current apple/google eco-systems must constantly get refreshed/investment to stay viable in their markets and on their devices.

But that's where the web is powerful...

#11454 33 days ago
Quoted from proco:

What I'm also wondering right now is how long they want to support all their internet connected features, apps, and data collection/access across dozens of games and (let's be optimistic) tens or hundreds of thousands of players?
If you look at Nintendo, they had this "cool new feature" called Miiverse that they launched in 2012 and discontinued in 2017. That's only a lifespan of 5 years for a network feature from a giant company. Now a lot of WiiU titles have unusable (although not important) parts of the game.
Let's just imagine that this company and their games do well - they might have to support online feautues to 2060 and longer. People still enjoy games from 1970 today after all. How likely is that?
I know that Multimorphic and Dutch Pinball have done online connectivity before, and now JJP tries as well. But Deeproot wants to do things like social media integration (where the popular platforms completely change like every 5 years at most), video support calls and a "mobile iOS application", and I doubt this goes well when there are companies out there that can't even do one of these items as their only product without bugs and (security) issues.

Dutch Pinball has barely been a company for the past couple years and they've still supported it. I think it's pretty easy to support existing hardware and software if you are not doing any upgrades and changes. I have websites and blogs I haven't touched in 15 years that are still running fine. If it takes off and they have a bunch of games and tracking, it takes maybe 1-2 full time programmers/web people, if more, I'm assuming they are building an online community that creates more sales.

#11455 33 days ago
Quoted from MapleSyrup:

Deeproot are on track to release less pinball machines this year than any pinball company in History.

When MapleSyrup isn’t saying positive things, you know you’re in trouble.

#11456 33 days ago

A platform is only as great as the games that can be played on it. Lets see more of the games and deeproot's ability to get them out the door.

#11457 33 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

A platform is only as great as the games that can be played on it. Lets see more of the games and deeproot's ability to get them out the door.

The fact that they haven't released a public statement past the "Oopsy!" the other day, then allow third parties to present years of research and execution rather than themselves is a pretty major failure for me.

So many puzzle pieces put together, oh so many more to go....

20
#11458 33 days ago

A lot of deeproot bashing on this thread but you do have to give them props where props are due:

The first multi-denominational religious pinball game. (mic drop)

10
#11459 33 days ago

My hope is that these guys start pumping out great games with all the new features and technology. For the life of me I can't see any reason to bash these guys. So one employee has a failed venture...shit happens....get over it. If anything they could push other manufacturers to do better....i.e Stern and their shitty play fields.

13
#11460 33 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

It's a manufacturing business, period, full stop. If you aren't manufacturing pins, you don't even have a business. Design is just one department that feeds the assembly line, like human resources, procurement, accounting, etc. Sure, design is the part that excites us, but it's not a business. It's just an expense.
The. Line. Is. Everything. And I haven't seen any evidence that deerpoot has one.

Period. End of story.

Stern feeds 300 employees with that line.

That game plan should come first.

It’s not bashing. It’s reality

10
#11461 33 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

My hope is that these guys start pumping out great games with all the new features and technology. For the life of me I can't see any reason to bash these guys. So one employee has a failed venture...shit happens....get over it. If anything they could push other manufacturers to do better....i.e Stern and their shitty play fields.

We ALL want them to be successful!

Hope is NOT a thing. It’s show me time

Stern and “shitty pf’s”?

You can take that hammer test and shove it

I love my FUN Stern pins. I’ve bought 4 or 5 in the past 2 years

TMNT is the only one that didn’t make the cut

Why? Don’t like the theme OR Dwight’s code since MunstersLE

Sorry but past performance has consequences for me

#11462 33 days ago

Why waste our time on here?

Because we love pinball

I do anyhow

And you guys are some crazy ass bastards that make life fun!

#11463 33 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

The online stuff seems nice but ops may not want to pay per mouth / game on an 9K+ game they put on site.

You can’t even break even on a 9k game on location.

#11464 33 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

We ALL want them to be successful!
Hope is NOT a thing. It’s show me time
Stern and “shitty pf’s”?
You can take that hammer test and shove it
I love my FUN Stern pins. I’ve bought 4 or 5 in the past 2 years
TMNT is the only one that didn’t make the cut
Why? Don’t like the theme OR Dwight’s code since MunstersLE
Sorry but past performance has consequences for me

Never said they weren't fun. Totally agree they have great themes, designers, coders, and clearly have manufacturing down to a science. Although hard to argue your not rolling the dice when u buy a NIB game from them...show me time? Whats that even mean? They'll show when their ready to show as apparently they have patient money. I'd love to see them license their technology to the other manufacturers...not sure they could absorb the costs, but it would solve a big challenge they have on their hands (actually designing, coding, and making games).

#11465 33 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

My hope is that these guys start pumping out great games with all the new features and technology. For the life of me I can't see any reason to bash these guys. So one employee has a failed venture...shit happens....get over it. If anything they could push other manufacturers to do better....i.e Stern and their shitty play fields.

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of bitching about a company that hasn't asked for any deposit money. Not to mention this company is the only way Jpop's victims will ever get to see anything for all that money they threw away.

#11466 33 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Never said they weren't fun. Totally agree they have great themes, designers, coders, and clearly have manufacturing down to a science. Although hard to argue your not rolling the dice when u buy a NIB game from them...show me time? Whats that even mean? They'll show when their ready to show as apparently they have patient money. I'd love to see them license their technology to the other manufacturers...not sure they could absorb the costs, but it would solve a big challenge they have on their hands (actually designing, coding, and making games).

Not a dig but license what technology? The lockdown bar? It’s my speculation that the lockdown bar is the reason they delayed the launch. I haven’t touched one but it looks painful in its current state.

#11467 33 days ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Not to mention this company is the only way Jpop's victims will ever get to see anything for all that money they threw away.

You mean the money they entrusted and Jpop threw away.

#11468 33 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

So one employee has a failed venture...shit happens....get over it.

I think people would've felt better about the "failed venture" if they thought JPop used their money responsibly, honestly trying to make their games. Instead, it seemed as though he spent his time (and their money) developing pinball parts that he could patent.

#11469 33 days ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

Not a dig but license what technology? The lockdown bar? It’s my speculation that the lockdown bar is the reason they delayed the launch. I haven’t touched one but it looks painful in its current state.

I think the PinBar is a great idea (who wouldn't want more real time information during game play), cabinet design, and play field coating .... this of course assumes they perform.

#11470 33 days ago
Quoted from Russell:

I think people would've felt better about the "failed venture" if they thought JPop used their money responsibly, honestly trying to make their games. Instead, it seemed as though he spent his time (and their money) developing pinball parts that he could patent.

Listen I don't know the guy nor all the details, but what does this have to do with Deep root? Because they hired the guy as an employee their now a bad company....thats ridiculous

-1
#11471 33 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Listen I don't know the guy nor all the details, but what does this have to do with Deep root? Because they hired the guy as an employee their now a bad company....thats ridiculous

I haven’t heard anyone say that Deeproot is a “bad company” because of JPop...except you I suppose.

#11472 33 days ago
Quoted from Russell:

I haven’t heard anyone say that Deeproot is a “bad company” because of JPop...except you I suppose.

Funny

#11473 33 days ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

Not a dig but license what technology? The lockdown bar? It’s my speculation that the lockdown bar is the reason they delayed the launch. I haven’t touched one but it looks painful in its current state.

Maybe. But I also think the “orange peel” texture to the hammer proof playfield had a lot to do with it.

#11474 33 days ago

heres a 'bad company' that can at least make a rhythm machine.

11
#11475 33 days ago

No lcd in the coin box?! F it, I’m out!

#11476 33 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Maybe. But I also think the “orange peel” texture to the hammer proof playfield had a lot to do with it.

Yeah what good is a playfield not getting dimples if it already is orange peeled, .

15
#11477 33 days ago

This botched release really makes me appreciate American Pinball as a company. They just concentrate on making creative, well-built pinballs at an affordable price, and none of this ridiculous confused bragging (and sometimes bullying) we keep getting from Deeproot.

20
#11478 33 days ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

This botched release really makes me appreciate American Pinball ...

Agreed. American Pinball took JPOP's original Houdini, totally redid it and a year later they had a playable game. The build quality of AP is excellent. Great customer service and they keep the price relatively low for a full featured game.

#11479 33 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I think the PinBar is a great idea (who wouldn't want more real time information during game play)

Put the info on the playfield where it belongs. That's why there's inserts. A well-designed game shouldn't require reading a secondary screen to know where to shoot. TSPP is a great example.. the TV toy doubles as the timer and is plainly visible right there on the playfield.

#11480 33 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Listen I don't know the guy nor all the details, but what does this have to do with Deep root? Because they hired the guy as an employee their now a bad company....thats ridiculous

JPop was just the igniter of the fire, then Robert threw a whole 18 wheeler gas tank on it

#11481 33 days ago
Quoted from nogoodnames222:

(and don't forget Apple is the most valuable company in the world despite being a joke to actual computer guys)

Apple = sucker-bait Lol

#11482 33 days ago

APPLE = non computer people who want things to work!

#11483 33 days ago
Quoted from Napoleon:

Ripping on Stern's node board is so 2016.
Don't you realize that Pinside moved on to ghosting, then pooling, then crappy printing

Don’t forget cabinet issues at joints

#11484 33 days ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

APPLE = non computer people who want things to work!

You're right that it's better than Microsoft.

Still overpriced for what it is...

Feels like there might be a DR analogy here at some point ...

13
#11485 33 days ago

As someone that puts machines out on site, the biggest advancement i want to see is online monitoring/reports and contactless payment (or at least a machine that is plug and play for such a system). I was really hopeful that Scorebit would bring this as they work across systems but with their monthly subscription model as it stands this is a non starter.

Deeproot have some interesting ideas in the pipeline, but no one will care if the games are crap. As they haven't taken a penny in deposits I couldn't care less when they are available, I will judge as always when my hands are on the games.

The MOST important factor is fun. All the rest is dressing and won't matter if they get this right.

#11486 33 days ago
Quoted from mveightball:

I will judge as always when my hands are on the games.

Imagine this on Pinside....I wonder if you can...

11
#11487 33 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

a perineal blowhard who can't deliver

Best misspelling ever? Regardless, too funny.

#11488 33 days ago

I see lockdown bar screens as an opportunity to interact with the player and rest of the game, not just be another redundant backbox mirror or menu help "Mr Paperclip".

Imagine having a bouncing/moving "boom" button instead of a static one, that's a simple idea...or have a virtual death save 2D "video mode" to try and bring the ball back to life again. Kinda like 3D Mario turning into 2D Mario and back again...3D ball -> 2D ball -> 3D ball again. Can still show info when not "in play".

Having said all that, I would prefer better priced, better quality games (via better programming and engineering - ala Ben Heck's earlier comments) than more expensive fancy pants ones...but if DR can do the best of both, all power to them.

#11489 33 days ago

where can I find the video about the game as haven't been keeping up to date

thanks in advance

#11490 33 days ago
Quoted from Napoleon:

Ripping on Stern's node board is so 2016.
Don't you realize that Pinside moved on to ghosting, then pooling, then crappy printing?
Their node boards are pretty reliable these days.

The node boards are a disaster waiting to happen. You who decide to go that route, good luck in the future, you will surely need it.

#11491 33 days ago

the pinbar combined with internet connectivity will start the age of DLC and advertisement previews on pinball machines.
Lootcrates, custom rules one has to buy and trophy awards when getting certain scores or objectives.
And the nutspeakers will make you believe you enjoy it cause of the weird tingeling sensation.
JPop/Rmeull brainwash!!!

#11492 33 days ago

Deeproot would be smart to just contract out manufacturing the first title to AP. From what I hear, they have the space. Let AP do your first build, while you build up your own manufacturing ability. This also gives you some positive cash flow as games go out. If they maintain a good relationship, AP could be used for manufacturing surges when demand spikes.

#11493 32 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Deeproot would be smart to just contract out manufacturing the first title to AP. From what I hear, they have the space. Let AP do your first build, while you build up your own manufacturing ability. This also gives you some positive cash flow as games go out. If they maintain a good relationship, AP could be used for manufacturing surges when demand spikes.

I bet AP would have a hearty lol if deeproot showed them what they think these games should cost to produce.

Besides you’re making the assumption they have something ready to produce

If they want cash flow, start selling some of their proposed accessories that could work with any game. They had some stuff to make it easier to setup games alone, the fancy shipping/storage box, and JPop has (probably) spent the last several months re-inventing the PinGulp

edit: also just a bad idea to have manufacturing so far away from where people are still clearly in the designing/testing phase

#11494 32 days ago
Quoted from swinks:

where can I find the video about the game as haven't been keeping up to date
thanks in advance

This is about as good as you’ll get swinks :

#11495 32 days ago

I am still failing to see why this is any different at all from the P3 system? 2 screens, check. Menu system? Check. Online play and leader boards? Check. WTF? At least P3 games have a start button

#11496 32 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

and JPop has (probably) spent the last several months re-inventing the PinGulp

Wild to imagine Jpop has extended his "pinball arts & crafts" lifestyle to an entire decade.

#11497 32 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Deeproot would be smart to just contract out manufacturing the first title to AP. From what I hear, they have the space. Let AP do your first build, while you build up your own manufacturing ability. This also gives you some positive cash flow as games go out. If they maintain a good relationship, AP could be used for manufacturing surges when demand spikes.

Why would AP do that knowing how litigation theatning Robert is?

#11498 32 days ago

However, the VIP group had concerns regarding the quality and look of the PinArmor coating as it is currently not smooth but more like an orange peel.

So... did deeproot solve dimpling by shipping their PF's with dimples already installed?

pasted_image (resized).png

-2
#11499 32 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I am still failing to see why this is any different at all from the P3 system? 2 screens, check. Menu system? Check. Online play and leader boards? Check. WTF? At least P3 games have a start button

I believe dr’s intent is for both displays to reflect the same info. For that reason, you should only count 1 screen for RAZA. The arcade model eliminates the backbox and the rear display anyways. The pinbar is a display AND a touchscreen and only access point for menu.

All Deeproot games will ship with one pinbar. If you buy the x or xtra models, you’ll get a duplicate display (slightly bigger but further away) under backbox. The pinbar can be removed and used elsewhere. When that happen, the source game is unplayable yet it will have zero displays.

#11500 32 days ago
Quoted from wesman:I see all of those as modern ways to introduce not just better functionality for a game, but most of all accessibility.
Baseball was pretty aged, over 50 years old prior to it being televised for the very first time in 1939. Television, then later cable, then online and phone accessibility only helps to provide larger groups of people the ability to enjoy and engage with the sport as a whole. Baseball hasn't really shifted much rules wise, in 130 plus years of it's existence, but the framework around it has, and in doing so has kept it modern, alive, and most importantly, in existence.

Right, and in addition, I was pretty annoyed when the Ricketts put a jumbotron at Wrigley Field that nobody asked for. The main reason I liked going to watch a Cubs game at Wrigley Field was the historic stadium. (I'm not a not a Cubs fan). Only Wrigley Field and Fenway Park still retain the feel of baseball's past, but now that is slipping away from all of these unwanted renovations to try and modernize things that don't need to be.

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