(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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There are 6834 posts in this topic. You are on page 121 of 137.
#6001 18 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I doubt you're going to get much better than over-the-shoulder cellphone footage without a proper streaming rig setup.

Dont need that... but how about an over the shoulder video of someone playing a good game... like i dunno... maybe... a very skilled player familiar with the game... like ... i dunno... the #10th ranked player in the world?

Why so hard deeproot?

#6002 18 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yes I did! I think one of the two videos shows a ball cycling through the wheel.

Have only seen the one video you took. Is there another one?

#6003 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

It is hard to notice but the ferris wheel operation is seen in some video linked in here. Watching again you see things happening that you didn't see, or happened too fast, the first viewing. The video quality does make it a challenge of course, but it is good to have something rather than nothing.
Thankyou to everyone putting up videos for us! ... please don't stop, most of us appreciate it and take it for what it is.
The first video provided by Zach may have missed the ball actually going around the right ramp.... but it does show that the ball makes it all the way, easily, and the rection of the player making the shot... which sounded to me like it was a very Positive reaction. So thanks Zach, the video you sourced is as good as any of the other videos put up here so far. Cheers!

Zach’s video is appreciated. I wonder if rather than trying to scour this thread for these videos, if the videos mentioned showing the main mechs working could be posted in one post?

#6004 18 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Zach’s video is appreciated. I wonder if rather than trying to scour this thread for these videos, if the videos mentioned showing the main mechs working could be posted in one post?

Trouble is there are worthwhile bits to be seen in almost all of them. They are all fairly short, and embedded so easily viewed....

#6005 18 days ago

Yes it’s just a prototype, but I would have thought their development cycle was further along than this. It’s beautiful, but also a little...

Clunky
Slow
Sketchy ramp shot

I hope they can fix these issues, but that’s a lot of fairly substantial adjustments to make when a deadline is looming, and sometimes you just can’t take the “clunk” out once it’s part of the design.

#6006 18 days ago
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:

Yes it’s just a prototype, but I would have thought their development cycle was further along than this. It’s beautiful, but also a little...
Clunky
Slow
Sketchy ramp shot
I hope they can fix these issues, but that’s a lot of fairly substantial adjustments to make when a deadline is looming, and sometimes you just can’t take the “clunk” out once it’s part of the design.

So you have actually played it then?

That assesment does not fit at all with what I have seen and Read so far (from my armchair).

Unless you're talking about the Players being filmed. > Clunky, slow, sketchy at making the main ramp shot (which has been made plenty, just not much on video).

-10
#6007 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

So you have actually played it then?

I’ve watched all of the videos, chump. Doesn’t take a mental giant to see what’s going on.

#6008 18 days ago

I love how pinside dissects every new pinball machine like a frog before it is even for sale. And the name calling, anger and frustration flies when people disagree.

I don't need a microscope to see it is absolutely nothing I would want at my place. I'm really hoping they can step up the game with the next one.

#6009 18 days ago
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:

I’ve watched all of the videos, chump. Doesn’t take a mental giant to see what’s going on.

There is nothing wrong with the ramp shot. It feels great in fact.

#6010 18 days ago
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:

I’ve watched all of the videos, chump. Doesn’t take a mental giant to see what’s going on.

Ahh so you haven't played it. Thought not.

Read above from someone with a little first hand experience. zaphX.

Go play it... or Move on, "chump"

-9
#6011 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Ahh so you haven't played it. Thought not.
Read above from someone with a little first hand experience.
Go play it... or Move on, "chump"

Everyone else gets to read, view and give their prelim comments. I do, and here you come riding in to shit on it.

Fuck off..

#6012 18 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

There is nothing wrong with the ramp shot. It feels great in fact.

Glad it worked for you!

#6013 18 days ago

I got a chance play it several times, love it plays great love the multiball

#6014 18 days ago
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:

Everyone else gets to read, view and give their prelim comments. I do, and here you come riding in to shit on it.
Fuck off..

Your armchair review is very much at odds with the reviews from actual players. Sorry "chump" .

And there's no need to get angry!

Maybe DR can do an Angry Birds pinny just for you!? (and one or two others)

-4
#6015 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Your armchair review is very much at odds with the reviews from actual players. Sorry "chump" .
And there's no need to get angry!
Maybe DR can do an Angry Birds pinny just for you!? (and one or two others)

Then get off my posts if you have nothing nice to say, simple.

#6016 18 days ago
Quoted from cjchand:

It is when people who have not laid hands on the game express misinformed opinion as fact that it becomes a fools errand to try and share our experience with the community.

If you notice, they do it all the time it seems. They have to have the final say or else.

#6017 18 days ago
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:

Then get off my posts if you have nothing nice to say, simple.

Your grammar and litteracy are above average for pinside!

#6018 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Your grammar and litteracy are above average for pinside!

Thanks, Professor.

#6019 18 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Back at ya Iceman, hope to have a beer and talk/play pinball sometime soon w/ us being fellow Texans!
There have been plenty of games I didn't like this year, btw. I just don't take time to shit on them, or to tell others they are wrong for liking them.
I'm a maker of things myself, and I have great respect for all these pinball projects that make it to fruition, even if they don't speak to me personally. There are 10000 micro-decisions that go into a project of this scope. Many frustrations, disappointments, and successes get the thing from being an idea to a real product someone would buy and use.
When I evaluate a product, I try to remember the real humans on the other end of the wire who put their blood sweat and tears into making it. If that makes me overly positive, that's a character flaw I think I can live with.

Real humans make it a labor of love no matter what.

I respect blood sweat and tears like you do

Living the positive life is a great attribute.

So whether this fails or succeeds there is no doubt many people made the effort to make it great.

Sometimes it doesn’t work despite the best of intentions.

At the moment, i don’t feel like it has come together yet

They have the assets to make it happen

I will always give DR a look just because of Thiel and the enjoyment I get out of Alien

So I gotta believe great things are in store for the future

22
#6020 18 days ago

1) The ramp is makeable. I personally have made it a couple times over the course of several games, and have seen another player make it multiple times in a single game, including a back to back set. The key to making it is hitting it on the fly, as a trapping up then shooting usually will not have enough ooomph to make it (at least with the power settings on the flippers at Houston). Both machines are consistent with that, so I would assume it is a deliberate choice. [Update] I asked one of the DR reps, and the ramp is designed to be very tough from a trap, but that there is a specific sweet spot that will make it.

2) The spinner does randomize things more than I like, but you can shoot around it if you are reasonably skilled and with good flipper control.

3) The auto plunger is a more likely to result in a DTM drain than is ideal, but you almost always get the ball back with an auto save. Since the power setting will be adjustable they can easily fine tune how much bouncing around is a result of an auto launched ball. It's pretty easy to manually plunge a ball right into a trap on the left flipper.

4) I have played at least 3 distinct modes (Zombie multiball, Zombie Duck Shooting, and Mirror Maze). They all appeared to have a full mode programmed with light, sound, and animation.

5) The ferris wheel is easy to activate, and works well. A soft loop from right to left will fall into the "car" and then the wheel will activate and rotate through to drop the ball into the channel. It reminds me of Rudy's Hideout from Funhouse, and I saw no issues with the mech, it just works.

6) The Atomic Shop scoop works ok, but it looks like it needs tuning like the scoop on TNA to reliably avoid rejected shots.

7) The Dare Devil Cycle shot/ramp is probably the flakiest shot that I saw. I'm not aware of ever making it myself, or seeing anyone else doing it either. [Update] Ok, after a few more plays I can see that it's not actually that flaky, you just simply can't see it because the spinner blocks your view.

The lighting in the hall SUCKS for photos, so I'm not surprised the colors look bad in photos and video. There is a lot of purple, but IMO it's not overwhelming. Art being art tho, YMMV.

#6021 18 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Ramp is finally made once at 1:31.

Also just in terms of feedback....that one successful ramp shot was from a rolling ball that had momentum on the flip, I still haven't seen one go all the way from a trap...

#6022 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

It is a traditional shooter rod, variable skill shot, and even hitting slings did not look so harsh/drain monster, at all. ?

Ah gotcha, apologies....vid I watched must've been cropped and people were full plunging/auto launches on ball saver.

30
#6023 18 days ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

OMG is that Jpop?!
[quoted image]

I posed for Zombie Yeti for the original Artwork.

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#6024 18 days ago
Quoted from abagwell:

Also just in terms of feedback....that one successful ramp shot was from a rolling ball that had momentum on the flip, I still haven't seen one go all the way from a trap...

I rekon that may be by design, so you might never see that (unless you buy one and ramp up the flip power). Get the trap fanatic comp players to take a risk now and then. Play Better, play Pinball, hit the thing instead of needing to stop the ball all the time just to be capable of succesfully making a shot. I think it's great for the competetive side, sort the "men out from the boys" (or girls out from the women), especially if that ramp is crucial for making points. Bravo!

The satisfaction I think is diminished if these shots are made so easy that players Always make them successfuly (from traps). Let it be harder than that!

What seems to make it a bit too rough is the lack of left feeds, just so that newbies dont have to shoot "on the fly" from open playfield as their only regular chance to make the ramp.

#6025 18 days ago
Quoted from Daditude:

RAZA first impressions:
The art package looks very promising. I like the gameplay. Obviously the cab and apron are still being worked on. I'm very excited to see what animations they will be going.
Overall it looks like it could be a big hit.

I agree after getting about 15 games on it this weekend. Layout is very good.

My negatives:
Game GI way too dark. Programmer noted they would adjust.
The kickback light is hidden under the ball drop in the game. You can't see if this feature is active...

Positives:
Ramps were smooth. Lots of nice things to shoot for once somebody explains the rules.
I really like the duck shot...

It has definite promise.

#6026 18 days ago
Quoted from frankmac:

My opinion of RAZA is underwhelming at this point.
Pics look good.
Vids of game play lookS underwhelming.
No not the person playing or taking the video. The game.
Time will tell. Hope RAZA shapes up to be a winner in the end!

Reminds me of Houdini.

Except it’s 8 years in the making and they cranked out Houdini in a week.

Hopefully, unlike Houdini, they take some time to smooth out the edges. But on the other hand might be time to cut this (and jpop) loose and move on. It doesn’t make sense to get bogged down in another jpop morass when you have other projects in the pipeline.

#6027 18 days ago

Played some at the Arcade Expo just a couple hours ago..

It seemed fun, the lighting and glare on the machine I was playing was bad and with the GI, I would easily lose the ball in the back...The ramps seemed fun, just played a few games as others were waiting to try but it was definitely above average and made me want to play some more. The hall was really loud and made it tough to hear any of the game...The screen display was very nice and razor sharp.

Overall I think it is a nice pin, but definitely one I need to enjoy with better lighting and sound

#6028 18 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Reminds me of Houdini.
Except it’s 8 years in the making and they cranked out Houdini in a week.
Hopefully, unlike Houdini, they take some time to smooth out the edges. But on the other hand might be time to cut this (and jpop) loose and move on. It doesn’t make sense to get bogged down in another jpop morass when you have other projects in the pipeline.

I'd agree with that generally.

I think 8 years is a bit of a stretch though from my observation, to be fair on DR. 2-3 years maybe, but alot of that time was probably more focussed on dealing with jpops zidware mess, and actually assembling a team (to "help" him), and creating a workplace/factory. Based on that this current DR RAZA appears (wisely) to be a ground up redesign with input from (probably) several other designers. The current layout appears very different than jpops original solo offering, which is certain to be a good thing. I think it is only fair to at least basically write off 5 years of jpop "development" (when considering DRs effort in the game). Cant say he had anything much to bring to the table to begin with, for DR. They started almost from scratch I rekon. The basic theme is probably about all they really started with.

I'm not much of a jpop fan at all really anyway... well, I did flip off my TOM.... and can not stand Cirqus Voltaire, what a stinker that box of junk is.

The game does seem to be pretty well recieved though, by those whom have actually played it.

#6029 18 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I'm not going to keep feeding the trolls in here.
My final word is that I really enjoyed playing it, and I wanted to play it more.

Such a Dark Knight for pinside watching all these veteran pinsiders pushing their agenda over their hard on for John

#6030 18 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Another gameplay video which shows some success on the ramp.
I’d say I make the ramp 40 percent of the time. It’s not frustrating to miss either. Just fun when you do.

Only got a chance to play 3 games on it. My only concern about that ramp is if the game were set up closer to 7 degrees or less floaty and the flipper mechs were worn down a little, that'd make that now difficult shot near impossible.

#6031 18 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Zach’s video is appreciated. I wonder if rather than trying to scour this thread for these videos, if the videos mentioned showing the main mechs working could be posted in one post?

Is there maybe a Pinside "Editor" around whom can add all the vids as "Key Posts"? .... starting with the post Zach made #5771 on page 116.

#6032 18 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I will always give DR a look just because of Thiel and the enjoyment I get out of Alien

Who doesn’t love David Thiel?!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#6033 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Is there maybe a Pinside "Editor" around whom can add all the vids as "Key Posts"? .... starting with the post Zach made #5771 on page 116.

Done.

#6035 18 days ago
Quoted from Eddie:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Was this the original RAZA artwork? that’s loads better than the new DR artwork, shame they couldn’t bring that over to use on this version.

#6036 18 days ago

Agree with whoever said pics looked cool but gameplay underwhelming. It doesn't look bad but not ground breaking considering the time. Not a bad game but was hoping for more considering the hype.

#6037 18 days ago
Quoted from J85M:

Was this the original RAZA artwork, that’s loads better than the new DR artwork, shame they couldn’t bring that original artwork over into this version.

Please read/refer the pretty recent Interview with Robert Mueller. And Steve Bowden. And JpoP. It answers some questions.

https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland-plus-interviews-with-john-popadiuk-steven-bowden-and-robert-mueller/

#6038 18 days ago

Bump. Because this thread needs it.

#6039 18 days ago

There were 2 games at the show. The one on the left had very weak flippers, which made hitting the ramp nearly impossible unless the ball already had some momentum. Also, the flippers rubbers were old and dull. There was a light right above the game, so the playfield was easily visible. The game on the right had stronger flippers, and I was able to hit the ramp consistently. There was no light above this one so the playfield was very dark. The lighting needed help on both, it was often very hard to tell what to shoot for, sometimes the programmer standing next to the game would toss out a hint, and that helped, they definitely have a ways to go with the light programming. The sound was impossible to hear. Even when I played a game early in the day before room noise picked up, I think it might have been turned down intentionally since it was unfinished. Lighting and sound are very important to making a game exciting, and I don’t think that is finished yet. The animations don’t always connect to what is happening on the playfield, sometimes they worked. I was able to play multiball a few times, and get a super jackpot (after prompting). It was finally getting fun once I understood some of the rules, and I look forward to trying a finished game. Here is a photo of my best game score.
08B3AEE2-3FC7-408F-9DC0-90FD39162A26 (resized).jpeg

#6040 18 days ago
Quoted from Jarson:

Also, the flippers rubbers were old and dull.

how does this happen? You're a PINBALL COMPANY. Even if it was play tested like crap before it got shipped and you forgot to swap them out, you are at a PINBALL SHOW. someone go buy a dozen set of rubbers from a vendor there.

#6041 18 days ago
Quoted from Jarson:

There were 2 games at the show. The one on the left had very weak flippers, which made hitting the ramp nearly impossible unless the ball already had some momentum.

I wish there was a practical solution for this problem at shows! Many times that I've ever gone to play a new pin, there is this low voltage problem ruining the experience due to too many pinball machine drawing power. Also the noise problem. They need to put these machines in a sound deadened booth and provide a power conditioner (regulator). I know, it's not cost effective.. Too bad though!

#6042 18 days ago

I am getting bummed out, RAZA seems to have a number of poorly designed key elements. For one, the ramp, what are they thinking putting only one ramp in the game, but at the same time using up so much real estate for return ramps. In addition, nothing kills flow like a ramp shot that cannot be made. I see no real innovation in this game, just a bunch of concepts from other games thrown together.......The Elements look forced. This is a disaster!

Suggestions
1.Get rid of the ridiculous inverse TOTAN lamp spinner - poor location and poor design
2. Fix the ramp by eliminating the top portion and making it flow better.
3. Eliminate the duck targets and go to regular targets, current design just looks cheap and foolish.....bad idea.
4. Ferris wheel looks cheap and unimpressive....remove it
5. Spinning disc on right is awkwardly placed....remove it.
6. Add another ramp shot to make this flow better.
7. Add some shots that “feel good”

#6043 18 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

Agree with whoever said pics looked cool but gameplay underwhelming. It doesn't look bad but not ground breaking considering the time. Not a bad game but was hoping for more considering the hype.

That was me with the “underwhelming” comment.

It is a polite way to express my early take on the game play and mechanisms in the game.

RAZA is “underwhelming underglass” at this point.

The rest of the pin looks good to me but that is not as important as what is underglass to me.

#6044 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Your grammar and litteracy are above average for pinside!

Litteracy.

#6045 18 days ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Add some shots that “feel good”

All shots in the game should feel good FFS. Seriously, go token up a Jurassic Park Pro from Stern. Every. shot. Is. Satisfying.

The problem with Raza is a standard JPOP problem which is few of the shots return to the flippers. That slows the game down and prevents combos, which are a super satisfying part of modern pinball.

#6046 18 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

how does this happen? You're a PINBALL COMPANY. Even if it was play tested like crap before it got shipped and you forgot to swap them out, you are at a PINBALL SHOW. someone go buy a dozen set of rubbers from a vendor there.

If I’m showing a new pin,I want you to see and play it as the best it can be.Deeproot was like yeah we’re going to do things the right way! Right?

#6047 18 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Is there maybe a Pinside "Editor" around whom can add all the vids as "Key Posts"? .... starting with the post Zach made #5771 on page 116.

I’ll make some key posts

Edit: vireland beat me to it

#6048 18 days ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

Such a Dark Knight for pinside watching all these veteran pinsiders pushing their agenda over their hard on for John

John is not a good guy! I know this from my personal dealings with him, that said I will reserve judgement on RAZA until I play it myself.

#6049 18 days ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

For one, the ramp, what are they thinking putting only one ramp in the game, but at the same time using up so much real estate for return ramps.

How does it even get to the left return? Just a matter of which way it randomly rolls when it makes it off the top end? The only video I've seen of it being made rolled down the right return.

13
#6050 18 days ago

Ok finally got some gameplay video / pictures and some extra time on it.

Things of note. I got some more information and there are adjustments still coming.

Let’s talk right ramp. The feedback on the ramp has been heard. An adjustment is coming, but what that is I don’t know, most likely in the form of flipper strength adjustments. I did see it hit once from the fly and it is a cool shot once it’s hit. People were reporting earlier in the expo that they were able to hit the ramp from a trap. The idea eventually is for a right orbit to ramp combo to be in the game.

It appears that the ramp itself can feed back to either flipper depending on how hard it gets it. The opening of the ramp allows for nudging back into the targets with the 3x - 6x - 9x. This is a playfield multiplier for a certain amount of time.

There is a magnet up top that is catching from both orbits and feeding the Ferris wheel.

The drop targets on the right orbit are a nice touch as well.

The spinning wheel on the right side activated each time a Target was hit right by it, though it didn’t do much to the ball itself.

The Dizzie doozie shot is mainly meant to be in the way of high value shots. I’m not a fan of this, but it’s the element of gameplay that has been presented.

Dare devil cycle was hit a few times too. What would happen is the ball would hit the target, that little ramp would pop up, and the ball would come back out from underneath the little ramp.

I’m not sure if this will ever be a tournament game. It’s a long player for sure. As I said earlier, there’s really no shots that put you into danger. Can’t comment on location play, but I can see this being a pin that someone would have fun playing in a home environment as this nears completion next year.

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