(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

4 years ago


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#23701 3 months ago
Quoted from Mogg:

What will happen to all the patents that RM most likely harbors? Will he sell them to a third party patent troll? I don’t see this going away. Am I wrong?

They are of no use to anybody. There's not a single Deep Root "innovation" that would benefit any pinball manufacturer.

Unless you think we really need cabinets with built in playfield rotisseries, or ipads melded with lockdown bars.

These patents will never be enforced because nobody else will ever be dumb enough to try to use any of these moronic ideas.

#23702 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

They are of no use to anybody. There's not a single Deep Root "innovation" that would benefit any pinball manufacturer.
Unless you think we really need cabinets with built in playfield rotisseries, or ipads melded with lockdown bars.
These patents will never be enforced because nobody else will ever be dumb enough to try to use any of these moronic ideas.

Further the patent John has for a screen under the glass is very particularly worded and doesn’t seem it’s an issue. Robert would have probably used it by now if it did.

#23703 3 months ago

Right, yes. However I guess I meant patents like the display in playfield; things that are currently in use by multiple manufacturers. I have no idea what patents they hold, I have no idea if they can even be enforced at this point since they haven’t been enforced. But ‘IF’, RM had the power to stick it to the hobby, would he not?

I’m totally getting way ahead of myself. I’m done now.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

They are of no use to anybody. There's not a single Deep Root "innovation" that would benefit any pinball manufacturer.
Unless you think we really need cabinets with built in playfield rotisseries, or ipads melded with lockdown bars.
These patents will never be enforced because nobody else will ever be dumb enough to try to use any of these moronic ideas.

40
#23704 3 months ago

#23705 3 months ago

I thought there were only two deeproot patents anyone could find and only one of them had thus far been granted?

#23706 3 months ago

Loved the address to PMITA Prison, but prisoner id should have been TBD.

#23707 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Loved the address to PMITA Prison, but prisoner id should have been TBD.

I liked the homage to The Breakfast Club at the end.

#23708 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Further the patent John has for a screen under the glass is very particularly worded and doesn’t seem it’s an issue. Robert would have probably used it by now if it did.

Robert absolutely would have been a patent troll. He told us straight out "I'm gonna hit every other company with nuisance lawsuits to slow them down and give us an advantage"

#23709 3 months ago

Oh also (forgot this in Kaneda interview) Robert's original plan was to hire John, make his 3 games and leave the ZW customers high and dry because "this is a separate company we have no obligations to them"

One of a million fed flags that caused us to say NO but at least he changed his mind on that one. Making John the most expensive pinball designer on the planet.... Brilliant!

#23710 3 months ago

https://www.wealthmanagement.com/regulation-compliance/sec-charges-texas-advisor-defrauding-investors-retirees-58m

Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 2.40.33 PM (resized).png

"Mueller could not be reached for comment."

#23711 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Loved the address to PMITA Prison, but prisoner id should have been TBD.

There's still time to correct it (because he forgot to add a postage stamp).

#23712 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Oh also (forgot this in Kaneda interview) Robert's original plan was to hire John, make his 3 games and leave the ZW customers high and dry because "this is a separate company we have no obligations to them"
One of a million fed flags that caused us to say NO but at least he changed his mind on that one. Making John the most expensive pinball designer on the planet.... Brilliant!

I raised that very issue almost 2 1/2 years ago:

Quoted from fosaisu:

Isn't there also an option to just have DP pay you back your JPop deposit if they're not shipping games on-schedule??

Quoted from RobT:

I'm still trying to figure all of this out in terms of a contractual obligation.
Did Deeproot buy out Zidware? I'm guessing the answer is no. So what legal obligation does Deeproot have to any of the Zidware buyers? Again, I am guessing they don't have one. If so, it makes sense that this agreement is called a "Goodwill Agreement." But still, what consideration is being paid by the Zidware buyers to Deeproot that would make the Goodwill Agreement enforceable? Is it giving up the right to sue Zidware/Jpop? If so, Deeproot would have to be considered some kind of third party beneficiary to make that consideration (giving up the right to sue Zidware) valid against Deeproot.
A lot of this doesn't make sense to me.

#23713 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

One of a million fed flags that caused us to say NO

Fed flags = SEC.

108
#23714 3 months ago

So I can always remember the time I made a scumbag scammer who robs old women rage-quit off the internet.

PXL_20210824_010235241 (resized).jpg
#23715 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

So I can always remember the time I made a scumbag scammer who robs old women rage-quit off the internet

Damn 4 upvotes! Unbelievable. Thought you made one of the best points on the pod today. Unless we see games being manufactured, there should be no preorder monies.

My engineer brain gets sad thinking about the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars wasted by these assholes. I'm confident I could build, code, and have baller art created for less than $10,000. For the first game prototype at least.

#23716 3 months ago
killme (resized).png
#23717 3 months ago

Do you think his pinside posts will be admitted into evidence? It will be like the predator case all over again. We can only hope RM has a crazy mother too.

#23718 3 months ago

Also how has there not been a Hitler video about this. He has to be super pissed about his deposit on food truck

#23719 3 months ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Do you think his pinside posts will be admitted into evidence? It will be like the predator case all over again. We can only hope RM has a crazy mother too.

I think flynnibus nailed it. DP will have to pay back the fund and failing that will declare bankruptcy. I doubt the SEC will look at Pinside.

#23720 3 months ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Also how has there not been a Hitler video about this. He has to be super pissed about his deposit on food truck

I'd do one but I can't host it on YouTube. The owner of that movie copyright strikes like mad now. Strikes are BAD... 3 of them and you're out and they "stick" for 6 months each.

#23721 3 months ago
Quoted from starfighter:

I think flynnibus nailed it. DP will have to pay back the fund and failing that will declare bankruptcy. I doubt the SEC will look at Pinside.

Oh they'll be here. Discovery. Intent. Scope.

Former employees will have to testify.

14
#23722 3 months ago

I was able to get a copy of the 01-SC-20-00222 case from Collin court. Turns out you just email them and they had it ready in a few hours. This is all part of the public record.

Portion of the plaintiff's claims:
plaintiff (resized).png

Portion of deeproot's defense:
defense (resized).png

What deeproot ordered: a $43,000 theater to be installed. Then COVID happened? Install couldn't happen because of COVID? Plaintiff tried to install later, but deeproot was not available? Then it's not clear what happened after?
receipt1 (resized).png
receipt2 (resized).png
receipt3 (resized).png

I don't have a good place to upload the entire case - it's about 15 files. Any suggestions? There's nothing else that's interesting in the case - just some emails, etc.

If I have time tomorrow, I may swing by the Bexar County court house.

#23723 3 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

I thought there were only two deeproot patents anyone could find and only one of them had thus far been granted?

I could only find two patent applications that are now abandoned. I couldn't find any granted patents.

There's basically nothing going on with the patents.

#23724 3 months ago
Quoted from Inside:

I was able to get a copy of the 01-SC-20-00222 case from Collin court. Turns out you just email them and they had it ready in a few hours. This is all part of the public record.
Portion of the plaintiff's claims:
[quoted image]
Portion of deeproot's defense:
[quoted image]
What deeproot ordered: a $43,000 theater to be installed. Then COVID happened. Deeproot reneged because COVID. Then it's not clear what happened after?
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I don't have a good place to upload the entire case - it's about 15 files. Any suggestions?
If I have time tomorrow, I may swing by the Bexar County court house.

Bless your heart! That case for transferred to bexar, so the story will pick up there. Interesting plaintiff writes deeproot closed up shop in 2020 and there's no indication they reopened after.

#23725 3 months ago

That’s the fancy theater the last few memes have been poking fun of

#23726 3 months ago

Inside lots of simple upload and share file sites. Haven't used one in a long time so probably others can make better recommendations, but this one looks like it would do the job

https://www.file.io/

#23727 3 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

The "deeproot theater" in all of its glory. I wonder how much money was spent for that 1 presentation?

Now we have an answer…

#23728 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

That’s the fancy theater the last few memes have been poking fun of

I wonder if Robert Chapman is aware of the usage of said theater

10
#23729 3 months ago

58k of improvements to a site he doesn't own. Amazing the decisions you make with other people's money.

#23730 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

58k of improvements to a site he doesn't own. Amazing the decisions you make with other people's money.

Per the terms of his lease, tenant was on the hook for all that and more

14
#23731 3 months ago

The Andrew Heighway send-off was anticlimactic, this one promises to make up for it.

12
#23732 3 months ago

Also, hello there to the paralegal at SEC/FBI having to read and take notes on these 30k pages by Xmas.

#23733 3 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Per the terms of his lease, tenant was on the hook for all that and more

One of many things he just didn’t need

Can any of the deep six mention of he put a plaque on the door? Like “The Robert Mueller Auditorium”

15
#23734 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

So I can always remember the time I made a scumbag scammer who robs old women rage-quit off the internet.
[quoted image]

Lol, even this random screenshot has 3 Pinstadium ads

#23735 3 months ago
Quoted from Inside:

I was able to get a copy of the 01-SC-20-00222 case from Collin court. Turns out you just email them and they had it ready in a few hours. This is all part of the public record.

"In depth Events attempted delivery of items purchased for the installation on August 4, 2020 during business hours as part of the negotiation process. However, there was no answer at the door of the place of business, and the business appeared vacant.
There is no evidence that Deeproot has re-opened their business in Bexar County."

I'm guessing even back then when covid was peaking, there should have been employees working on stuff. Even I was going into the office at least once a week (in a crowded office). Deeproot is like half a million square feet, pretty sure employees could keep a 6 foot distance. What have they been doing for a year?

#23736 3 months ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

"In depth Events attempted delivery of items purchased for the installation on August 4, 2020 during business hours as part of the negotiation process. However, there was no answer at the door of the place of business, and the business appeared vacant.
There is no evidence that Deeproot has re-opened their business in Bexar County."
I'm guessing even back then when covid was peaking, there should have been employees working on stuff. Even I was going into the office at least once a week (in a crowded office). Deeproot is like half a million square feet, pretty sure employees could keep a 6 foot distance. What have they been doing for a year?

It’s truly mind boggling how little was accomplished for the millions spent.

#23737 3 months ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

"In depth Events attempted delivery of items purchased for the installation on August 4, 2020 during business hours as part of the negotiation process. However, there was no answer at the door of the place of business, and the business appeared vacant.
There is no evidence that Deeproot has re-opened their business in Bexar County."
I'm guessing even back then when covid was peaking, there should have been employees working on stuff. Even I was going into the office at least once a week (in a crowded office). Deeproot is like half a million square feet, pretty sure employees could keep a 6 foot distance. What have they been doing for a year?

Possession is 9/10ths of the law. InDepth was trying to dump it off, Robert probably knew they were coming and closed for the day.

#23738 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Rascal H is a one-issue, one-agenda voter.
Hint: Kaneda.

I know. But I figured I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. Plus everyone knows that the only “alarm bells” Kaneda was banned for sounding are the ones that go off when you create multiple fake Pinside accounts.

16
#23739 3 months ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:As much as I enjoyed the interview with Ben, there was much revisionist history regarding Pinside and why Chris was finally 86ed.

Exactly- benheck great stories but i think you’ve bought into chris’ tales with regard to the past. I know you were around at the time, but maybe not all plugged into all the pinside happenings then?

The stuff pinside wasn’t allowing wasn’t just negativity- but rather unsubstantiated claims, or worse, burner accounts coming along making very serious accusations without things to back it up… or accountability. There is no way to tell if the stuff was legit or not… and when you start throwing big hooks, they could not just let burners do that. Thst’s what would tend to be deleted…. unsubstantiated accusations that often included crimes. You can’t just say ‘i guessed right!’. People were making very specific claims but without enough to establish trust to make it credible.

Burner accounts too… not something chris would ever do right?? *rolleyes*

Chris wasn’t the canary nor was he banned for that.

And since you’ve been so keen on iceman’s gaslighting… You should demand chris repost his episode where he reads the hate filled, demeaning, tirade email he sent robin and the mods before you participate anymore in his show. Then you’d really understand why robin won’t give him another chance. And it’s not because he was some tipster…. Demand that show be reposted… let his own words tell the tale from the period. Not his revisionism.

Talk about gaslighting…

#23740 3 months ago

“ You misunderstood. We will be taking a hammer to every PF.”

Thats about the time I knew this was all bullshit.

#23741 3 months ago

Not sure if this has already been posted, but I think it's worth noting.

Deeproot's listed address is 12621 Silicon Dr, San Antonio, TX 78249. Public tax records (screenshot below) show the owner as "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager.

This same building is currently for sale: https://www.cbre.us/properties/properties-for-lease/office/details/US-SMPL-55014/12621-silicon-drive-12621-silicon-drive-78249?view=isSale

PropertyShark shows this listing as last updated on July 2, 2021: https://www.propertyshark.com/cre/commercial-property/us/tx/san-antonio/12621-silicon-drive/

If you download the listing brochure, you can see that the landlord - presumably "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager - has Deeproot Tech under lease till March 2023.

Nothing odd about buying a building as one entity and renting to yourself, that's common practice, but it does explain the theater installation investment.

What's interesting to me is if you're ready to start manufacturing, why would you list your manufacturing facility for sale in early July?

image (resized).pnginterior (resized).jpg
#23742 3 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

I thought there were only two deeproot patents anyone could find and only one of them had thus far been granted?

No one wants them, they are just just expensive bragging rights if they were granted.

#23743 3 months ago

This may have already been covered, but I found it interesting.

Deeproot's listed address is 12621 Silicon Dr, San Antonio, TX 78249

The public tax records (screenshot below) show the owner as "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager.

This same building is currently for sale: https://www.cbre.us/properties/properties-for-lease/office/details/US-SMPL-55014/12621-silicon-drive-12621-silicon-drive-78249?view=isSale

If you download the listing brochure, you can see that the landlord - presumably "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager - has Deeproot Tech under lease till March 2023.

That would explain the theater investment.

There is nothing untoward about buying a building as one entity and renting to yourself, that's common practice. What's interesting to me is the timing. When did this "lab / manufacturing space" get put on the market?

image (resized).pnginterior (resized).jpg
#23744 3 months ago
Quoted from Deluxodave:

This may have already been covered, but I found it interesting.
Deeproot's listed address is 12621 Silicon Dr, San Antonio, TX 78249
The public tax records (screenshot below) show the owner as "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager.
This same building is currently for sale: https://www.cbre.us/properties/properties-for-lease/office/details/US-SMPL-55014/12621-silicon-drive-12621-silicon-drive-78249?view=isSale
If you download the listing brochure, you can see that the landlord - presumably "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager - has Deeproot Tech under lease till March 2023.
That would explain the theater investment.
There is nothing untoward about buying a building as one entity and renting to yourself, that's common practice. What's interesting to me is the timing. When did this "lab / manufacturing space" get put on the market?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Hey… finally a real asset of value that can be liquidated!

#23745 3 months ago

Two simple statements come to mind:
"All show and no go"...
"Smoke and mirrors"

Sorry for those who got wrapped up in the charade. Those who lost money...
Those who lost time in their lives

#23746 3 months ago
Quoted from Deluxodave:

This may have already been covered, but I found it interesting.
Deeproot's listed address is 12621 Silicon Dr, San Antonio, TX 78249
The public tax records (screenshot below) show the owner as "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager.
This same building is currently for sale: https://www.cbre.us/properties/properties-for-lease/office/details/US-SMPL-55014/12621-silicon-drive-12621-silicon-drive-78249?view=isSale
If you download the listing brochure, you can see that the landlord - presumably "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager - has Deeproot Tech under lease till March 2023.
That would explain the theater investment.
There is nothing untoward about buying a building as one entity and renting to yourself, that's common practice. What's interesting to me is the timing. When did this "lab / manufacturing space" get put on the market?
[quoted image][quoted image]

It’s been on the market for several months. I don’t think anyone pieced together Robert was the owner and not just the tenant

#23747 3 months ago

Renting to one's self? Sounds like an excellent way to "disappear" money.... :0

#23748 3 months ago
Quoted from Deluxodave:

Not sure if this has already been posted, but I think it's worth noting.
Deeproot's listed address is 12621 Silicon Dr, San Antonio, TX 78249. Public tax records (screenshot below) show the owner as "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager.
This same building is currently for sale: https://www.cbre.us/properties/properties-for-lease/office/details/US-SMPL-55014/12621-silicon-drive-12621-silicon-drive-78249?view=isSale
PropertyShark shows this listing as last updated on July 2, 2021: https://www.propertyshark.com/cre/commercial-property/us/tx/san-antonio/12621-silicon-drive/
If you download the listing brochure, you can see that the landlord - presumably "Policy Services Inc" with Robert J Mueller as Manager - has Deeproot Tech under lease till March 2023.
Nothing odd about buying a building as one entity and renting to yourself, that's common practice, but it does explain the theater installation investment.
What's interesting to me is if you're ready to start manufacturing, why would you list your manufacturing facility for sale in early July?
[quoted image][quoted image]

The brochure has been shared a fee times. The tax doc is new.

Looking at the doc, I think it is actually just tax related to an entity created by Deeproot for the money they put into the property (that Robert doesn't own). You'll note that the market value is only 132k and the land value is $0 (because there's no land). This actually almost surely explains the purpose behind one of his LLCs I never understood, which is an LLC in the name of the address of the deeproot offices.

#23749 3 months ago

Policy Services Inc was one of Robert's businesses I never paid much attention to because it was one of the oldest and had no public-facing enterprise (like pinball, studios, tech, etc). Given the SEC doc put it front and center, I just decided to give it another google. Woo boy, the first finding is a doozie:

https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/violation-tracker/ut-policy-services-inc

Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 5.03.22 PM (resized).png

Does this indicate that in 2019 good old Robert had to pay $1.4 million in penalties for wage and hour violations for deeproot studios staff? And if it does, I wonder where he could have gotten the money to pay those penalties?

Maybe that's not all what this indicates. It's not like we've heard rumors of Utah staff not getting paid circa 2019 (and other times).

#23750 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Oh also (forgot this in Kaneda interview) Robert's original plan was to hire John, make his 3 games and leave the ZW customers high and dry because "this is a separate company we have no obligations to them"
One of a million fed flags that caused us to say NO but at least he changed his mind on that one. Making John the most expensive pinball designer on the planet.... Brilliant!

Hi Ben,
I remember you saying something to remember effect of "when this goes bust I will explain what I think the real intentions were behind why JPop offered to build the pinball machines in people's
Homes"

Stu

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