Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020I am going to try my best to never look at this thread again. Some of those “upcoming” themes make Punny Factory, Thats Wack, and Fruit o Matics seem absolutely compelling by comparison. Completely and totally lost interest in Deeproot and their crazy assed overly complicated new fangled insanity. Gonna go play some Metallica, thats about as innovative as I like my pinball to get.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I'm gonna sit this out guys. I simply can't make fun of these innovations as they are all going to change pinball forever and I'll end up looking stupid while all of the youth are clamoring to play pinball because there's an ipad on the lockdown bar. I hear the laughter over at Stern has turned into panic. Today is their Pearl Harbor. Black Tuesday. The Pinpocalypse.
Wake me up when I can play some "Food Truck." Hopefully they rename it "Roach Coach" for some added style points.
this is freaking hilarious
Quoted from Nysbadmk8:No need to be a Dick, Dick.
True ...I am definitely being a Dick, he had it coming from past comments.
Some of these cheesy games like food truck must be aimed at redemption locations. You can see a ticket counter on the pinbar in one of the pictures, so their strategy must involve redemption gaming in some major way.
Man, you guys are rough. I see a lot of potential. Pf looks great. Lift glass is great. Needed no but nice. Same for pinbar. It can add a lot to gameplay and just a nice feature. Maybe it is over engineered but better than the same old thing to me. Nobody knows prices or how these things play and everyone going into a fit. How can you even comment about some random future title without know one thing about it? B/W did some pretty strange themes including Diner which could easily be Food Truck. Pinball should be fun. You guys need to relax.
Quoted from tamoore:What pinball people say they want: "Innovation".
Why they say when it's offered to them: "No. Not like that, more like the way things have always been. That kind of innovation."
LOL. Exactly
Quoted from pin2d:deeproot Pinball: Platform, Pinbar, PinArmor, Ecosystem, Future Games and Future Plans
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-platform-pinbar-pinarmor-ecosystem-future-games-and-future-plans/
- A Note from the Tour Group
- A Note from deeproot Pinball
- Platform
- Pinbar
- PinArmor
- Ecosystem
- Three Model System
- Future Planned Titles[quoted image]
They've done an astonishing amount of work on a platform that has a bunch of themes almost nobody will care about.
I'm legitimately impressed, amazed, and confused.
Quoted from tamoore:What pinball people say they want: "Innovation".
Why they say when it's offered to them: "No. Not like that, more like the way things have always been. That kind of innovation."
Exactly. I've been saying this for years.
And there's a reason for that. It's because pinball isn't about innovation, it's about pinball. The entire allure of pinball is steeped in tradition and nostalgia, not shoehorning in tech that it doesn't need.
Deep Root calls their ridiculous "pinbar" "The most revolutionary innovation in the history of pinball."
Move over flippers, pop bumpers, score reels, solid state technology, digital displays, and digital sound. Here comes a bulky sharp-cornered lockdown bar with a screen nobody asked for. And if that ain't enough for ya, we got a new hammer proof clearcoat that has the texture of an orange peel and comes with dimples pre-installed, with the added impossibility of them ever flattening out because it's harder than a diamond.
The most revolutionary innovations in the history of pinball, ladies and gents.
i am hopeful the lockdown touch screen can be converted to play like Candy Crush or Tsum Tsum... just to keep the machine relative after what i am assuming will be a triumphant and incredibly successful launch.
of course if it had a sarcasm meter that would probably a great innovation too!
Quoted from tamoore:What pinball people say they want: "Innovation".
Why they say when it's offered to them: "No. Not like that, more like the way things have always been. That kind of innovation."
Don't forget the classic, IF IT'S NOT THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN IT'S NOT PINBALL 
Dumb ideas can catch on, great ideas can fail, and not all ideas have obvious merit. I applaud DR for trying... there are some compelling ideas in their pitch. Shame DR didn't fully bake them before the reveal, but I can see a "plausibility case" for most all of them. Even the screen-in-lockbar concept doesn't seem so bad after reading the thought process behind it... just needed more time to execute properly.
As others have said, what the heck was March supposed to show? Perhaps it would have been more-or-less feature complete at the time, not that any of us knew differently... and the shutdown/delay encouraged them to pack more in, but they bit off more than they could chew?
Quoted from Haymaker:Regular people can't figure out the button on new sterns but their gonna just navigate a touch screen because its like their phone?
Yes... for people under 40, I think this actually makes a lot of sense.
To be fair, this TWIP story shows Deeproot in a much better light than the stuff yesterday.
The "Pinbar" actually looks a bit better than I expected. The outdated 3-4 control button system does indeed need an upgrade. The metal edge MUST be rounded off. I wonder if people will be reluctant to touch the fingerprint-ridden screen because of COVID.
The backbox on stilts looks silly, but the LCD itself looks very nice.
Tilting glass is a good idea, but I wonder how it works if you need to get under the playfield.
Good to hear about the dent-resistant playfield. I also like the printed component info on the bottom of the playfield.
Assisted leveling is a good idea.
PinPod looks very secure and high quality.
Not sure what to make of the internet integration. We all knew this was coming. We'll see how well it actually works, and if it adds anything to the experience.
I actually enjoyed going through and reading about their future titles. Some interesting ideas there.
Fire and Brimstone: No
Food Truck: Mayyyybe good, if they can somehow create a pinball version of Overcooked.
Merlin's Arcade: Based on 8BD? Weird idea, but I'm sort of excited to see this one.
The Who: I hate to say it, but the song ruins this one for me.
Gladiator: Has potential, like a modern Paragon or Fathom
Yukon Yeti: I like the idea of a White Water sequel, but that character is WAY too juvenile
Machine Age: looks like so many modern video games. I'm mostly bored with this idea.
Magic Girl: JPop poison (with great art)...pass
Quoted from Russell:To be fair, this TWIP story shows Deeproot in a much better light than the stuff yesterday.
Of course it does. TWIP's choices are to publish something flattering, or have big shot Bob excel at his true calling, legal threats.
Quoted from iceman44:No mention of production capabilities
Seems to me you gotta be able to actually assemble games and put them in a box
How is that gonna happen?
This idea is brilliant. Sell the machines as kits and you don't need an assembly line.
It's easy to have many machines titles on the line if there is no line.
Seriously, the only way I can afford a NIB is if the price is much lower and I assemble it myself.
I tinker with my machines as much as I play them already. It would be a fun project.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Who the F is going to buy a Food Truck themed pinball?
Really? Are we being punked?
Overall it looks cool, some nice new innovations
A lot of reinventing the wheel that was not really needed/wanted
- but nothing that will push be to buy a game if the gameplay/theme is not there
To be fair "Bad Cats", "Diner" and other classics back in the day probably had similar initial reactions from people, though I think people were more accepting of odd original themes than they are now. If it's an original Nordman or Ousler game it could be good, who knows?
Quoted from nwpinball:Yes... for people under 40, I think this actually makes a lot of sense.
I'm under 40. I see a ton of people under 40 completely missing when they should hit the button on stern games all the time as well.
Quoted from bobukcat:To be fair "Bad Cats", "Diner" and other classics back in the day probably had similar initial reactions from people, though I think people were more accepting of odd original themes than they are now. If it's an original Nordman or Ousler game it could be good, who knows?
Thats incorrect. The landscape was completely different back then. Well bad cats was never a hit. Its just picked up popularity in the past few years...for some reason.
Quoted from tamoore:What they say when it's offered to them: "No. Not like that, more like the way things have always been. That kind of innovation."
I want innovation in gameplay, not more gizmos and overengineered junk. Jurassic Park was very innovative in its ruleset and 4 ramp design while still being a traditional pinball machine.
The most glaring thing here is how deeproot didn't say much of ANYTHING about what's on the playfield. Cabinet construction w custom dovetails, 2 versions of a floating head, pinbar, auto leveling, yadda yadda whatever... not a single mention of compelling playfield features, rules or shots.
I'll always prefer a well-designed and thought out traditional pinball over bling. No interest in deeproot whatsoever until I see compelling gameplay. While deeproot's been dicking around with endless cabinet redesigns (the curse of jpop), Elwin's cranked out three amazing games for Stern. What the hell is going on at deeproot?
Quoted from metallik:I want innovation in gameplay, not more gizmos and overengineered junk. Jurassic Park was very innovative in its ruleset and 4 ramp design while still being a traditional pinball machine.
The most glaring thing here is how deeproot didn't say much of ANYTHING about what's on the playfield. Cabinet construction w custom dovetails, 2 versions of a floating head, pinbar, auto leveling, yadda yadda whatever... not a single mention of compelling playfield features, rules or shots.
I'll always prefer a well-designed and thought out traditional pinball over bling. No interest in deeproot whatsoever until I see compelling gameplay.
Well they showed off the playfield already and most people just pointed out the EM mechs that inspired JPop and complained about the ramp
There is interesting stuff going on the playfield, but it's largely iteration. All the innovation is in the cabinet and software.
Some of the stuff about the game shot logs sounds sorta interesting I guess. Kinda reminds me of a "ghost" racer in a video game.
There are lots of things to like about their work in progress, but some of the statements and decisions are just... odd.
...PinOS is a multi-threaded framework engine that serves as a communications hub between our proprietary game engine script, Unity frontend, and our FMOD audio engine. All animations, sound, and interactivity on the PinBarTM are served by calls to and from the Unity engine. Updates and boot recovery software are served by Linux and lower level code.
So what does all of this mean? It means that we could develop and code a game in mere weeks, rather than months or years.
That last sentence is beyond ridiculous - it actually shows a rather extraordinary level of misunderstanding of the development process. It's the kind of ultra noob mindset you hear from devs attempting their first indie game once they have a couple of basic tools running.
Omnichannel allows you to access your scores on deeproot machines and log in to any deeproot machine anywhere in the world, even if it is not connected to the internet.
What?
Quoted from tamoore:What pinball people say: They want: "Innovation".
What they say when it's offered to them: "No. Not like that, more like the way things have always been. That kind of innovation."
Pinside.... we want more original themes ....
DR... here are 6 or so.....
Pinside.... we don't like those..
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:Pinside.... we want more original themes ....
DR... here are 6 or so.....
Pinside.... we don't like those..
I just made this post in the Food Truck thread.. lol
What a difference a day makes.
After watching Cary Hardy's review and reading TWIP, I'm not ready to write Deeproot off yet.
Some awkward things no doubt and some things I hate like the floating cabinet head. But some cool stuff too and maybe some things will be better in person than in pictures.
Best of all, I'm back to being hopeful for the Jpop victims who are owed games. Yesterday I was writing their obituary and today I'm not so sure.
Edit/Add: Despite my new feelings I'm still laughing at some of the funny sarcasm being bantered.
Quoted from epthegeek:Working on a sick new unreleased Deeproot game in their point and click programming interface![quoted image]
Nice! Everybody should post their unique and innovative deep root concept. Here’s mine. Be gentle I’ve been working on it for only 5 years so still some conceptual details to iron out:
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:Pinside.... we want more original themes ....
DR... here are 6 or so.....
Pinside.... we don't like those..
original is great... dopey is different. Food Truck? lol
Why not something more exciting like "post office" or "grocery shopping"
Quoted from Elvishasleft:original is great... dopey is different. Food Truck? lol
Why not something more exciting like "post office" or "grocery shopping"
Didn’t stern just make a game about turtles eating pizza ?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Nice! Everybody should post their unique and innovative deep root concept. Here’s mine.
[quoted image]
Excellent!
Quoted from apessino:There are lots of things to like about their work in progress, but some of the statements and decisions are just... odd.
That last sentence is beyond ridiculous - it actually shows a rather extraordinary level of misunderstanding of the development process. It's the kind of ultra noob mindset you hear from devs attempting their first indie game once they have a couple of basic tools running.
What?
1,000x this ^^^ Software development isn't hard because it takes too long to hook things up, it's hard because the plan changes, different developers have different approaches, and it's impossible to look into the future to determine what should have been coded as a module instead of 2 lines for a specific purpose because you never in a million years thought it would need to be reused.
So you guys finally get the hammer-proof playfield clearcoat you always wanted, but it has the texture of a hormonal 12-year old's face.
Is that what you were looking for? Pretty hard to find any playfield defects when it comes pre-cratered.
Theme is the alpha and omega of modern pinball. If they announced a Harry Potter game with zero platform innovations, people would be lined up with $10k in their hand. Instead they spent years and millions reinventing the wheel for a car no one wants to drive. Cargument!
I weirdly like the Food Truck concept, I also think it may be appealing to younger folks than old guy rock bands and 30 year old movies. It seems like Deeproot is making a concerted effort to go after younger players and lure new people into playing pinball, maybe that's where they see their market growth since Stern already has the 50 year old white guy demographic down. That's my demographic, but I see value in creating your own market and bringing in newer generations of pinball fans.
I think that while convenient for the enthusiast the playfield glass lifter thing is a waste of money. Making games marketed for redemption is also a poor choice before covid never mind now. Redemption pinball never worked before and covid has destroyed that industry possibly forever. Good job deeproot! I would have serious concerns for that lockdown bar touch screen for commercial use as well.
If Food truck was a modern Diner I think it could be good. I love Dialed In but remember the hostility at the reveal. Some people love to hate. Maybe all of these themes will suck but who knows at this point. Give it a chance.
I was kinda hoping for a "Pimps an Hoes" original theme with some funky jams for music. "drive by" multi-ball. c'mon Deeproot!!
Quoted from nwpinball:I weirdly like the Food Truck concept, I also think it may be appealing to younger folks than old guy rock bands and 30 year old movies. It seems like Deeproot is making a concerted effort to go after younger players and lure new people into playing pinball, maybe that's where they see their market growth since Stern already has the 50 year old white guy demographic down. That's my demographic, but I see value in creating your own market and bringing in newer generations of pinball fans.
I like the idea of aiming for a younger crowd. The problem is most people in this demographic are too worrieded about paying their student loans debts, not buying a $6000 machine.
Quoted from nwpinball:I weirdly like the Food Truck concept, I also think it may be appealing to younger folks than old guy rock bands and 30 year old movies. It seems like Deeproot is making a concerted effort to go after younger players and lure new people into playing pinball, maybe that's where they see their market growth since Stern already has the 50 year old white guy demographic down. That's my demographic, but I see value in creating your own market and bringing in newer generations of pinball fans.
Agree 100% and I’m also 100% buying a RAZA for my youngest that’s the shit he’s into .Wife has her WOZ I got my IMDN oldest is getting his FG next week and youngest wasn’t interested in anything until now .Its a Win Win in this house count me on board !
innovation has to be within the game... not the cabinet, or the backglass or the buttons that turn off extra balls. And a touch screen in the world of Covid - holy timing disaster batman.
I do like the crate though.
My heart is filled with dread on the goonies though...
Quoted from Kkoss24:Count me in for Goonies also !
First you gotta do the truffle shuffle! Haha
Me too, No1 dream theme for me.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Nice! Everybody should post their unique and innovative deep root concept. Here’s mine. Be gentle I’ve been working on it for only 5 years so still some conceptual details to iron out:
[quoted image]
surely beefroot pinball?
Quoted from La4s:I like the idea of among for a younger crowd. The problem is most people in this demographic are too worrieded about paying their student loans debts, not buying a $6000 machine.
I live in Seattle where most people that are 25-40 work in the tech industry and make hundreds of thousands of dollars and have seen their stock options make them into millionaires over the past decade. So it might be skewed here, we have tons of barcades and bar tournaments and a lot of younger people with money playing games and wanting to buy them. I'm the one not able to afford a NIB game, not the younger people.
Quoted from nwpinball:I live in Seattle where most people that are 25-40 work in the tech industry and make hundreds of thousands of dollars and have seen their stock options make them into millionaires over the past decade. So it might be skewed here, we have tons of barcades and bar tournaments and a lot of younger people with money playing games and wanting to buy them. I'm the one not able to afford a NIB game, not the younger people.
I need to move to the northwest and reinvent my career. I do think that is a skewed perspective of the rest of the U.S. though.
Quoted from bbaker2824:If Food truck was a modern Diner I think it could be good.
Well they definitely got the right designer if they want to go the "amusing racial stereotype" route. Not sure how that plays in 2020 but honestly with the pinball crowd it might be a plus.
ALOT to unpack in that article. But this jumped out at me...
"Note that the seal and lockbar on the cabinet lock down into the cabinet and seals/protects the Pinbar from accidental liquid spills"
Looking forward to the demonstration video of Robert pouring a 16oz beer on the glass, then seeing if that touchscreen survives. No working touchscreen = no working game. If I was an operator, that would be a huge concern for me. Sure the screen may be replaceable, but I'm sure it ain't cheap.
From reading all that hype, that Pinbar is the core innovation for their game design. It isn't going anywhere.
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