(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#32001 1 year ago

I'll bet they gave Robert a fancy title. Something like, Vanishing Assets Manager

#32002 1 year ago

I guess a background check doesn't necessarily reveal anything unless/until criminal charges are filed? But come on, Boeing, all you gotta do is google the guy's name.

mueller (resized).pngmueller (resized).png
#32003 1 year ago

Someone should tip off Boeing that they hired a Blobert

#32004 1 year ago

Everyone is entitled to earn a living. But, yeah, perhaps there are certain responsibilities less appropriate to certain people under certain circumstances.

#32005 1 year ago

Boeing is a major US war contractor, and they hire something being legally pursued by the US government?

The mind boggles. At least this cancer has been removed from our hobby.

12
#32006 1 year ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Glad I don't own stock in Boeing.

Seriously, who else knows quad and octo manufacturing better than Robert? It's a windfall for Boeing. Every family needs a Boeing 737 Max.

#32007 1 year ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Seriously, who else knows quad and octo manufacturing better than Robert? Every family needs a Boeing 737 Max.

"Every 90 lb single mom should be able to buy and service a 737!"

10
#32008 1 year ago

Aloha. Some hefty documents (one a massive 213-pager) just hit pacer in the bankruptcy proceedings, including the outcome of the Kauai condo and I don't know what else.

Uncle Blueberry has purchased them, meaning they are available on courtlistener (https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61608049/deeproot-capital-management-llc/). However, he does not at present have the time to review them for potential personal info removal as is the SOP before posting them here. So that posting will not happen until he does.

Update: Looks like the 213-pager is about the car wash. So combined with the Hawaii home, we've got some substantial updates on two of the more-beloved side stories. I've not yet seen anything about African gold mining.

Further Update: People who understand and enjoy creative bookkeeping and money moving may enjoy digging into the details of this one.

Update to the Update: There were two Hawaii properties. The trustee is seeking approval for a settlement to get Robert's dad and stepmother (but not Robert) off the hook for the Hawaii shenanigans if they pay back some money.

#32009 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Update: Looks like the 213-pager is about the car wash.
People who understand and enjoy creative bookkeeping and money moving may enjoy digging into the details of this one.

It's a fucking lost episode of breaking bad

#32010 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Boeing is a major US war contractor, and they hire something being legally pursued by the US government?
The mind boggles. .

Seriously, for this reason alone we need to alert someone at Boeing they are employing a "potential" embezzler.

#32011 1 year ago

Robert has a wife and 2 children who are innocent in all of this. He needs work to support them. He also may be required to pay restitution at some point. Boeing is a big company with lots of employees and doesn't need saving.

I recommend leaving things alone and allow events to play out on their own. If convicted, he'll be a first time offender, not necessarily a repeat offender.

#32012 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Robert has a wife and 2 children who are innocent in all of this. He needs work to support them. He also may be required to pay restitution at some point. Boeing is a big company with lots of employees and doesn't need saving.
I recommend leaving things alone and allow events to play out on their own. If convicted, he'll be a first time offender, not necessarily a repeat offender.

If he stole 60 mil like he’s accused of he’s more than welcome to pay it off one license plate at a time like the rest of the criminals. His loved ones can get support from their families and get jobs.

#32013 1 year ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

If he stole 60 mil like he’s accused of he’s more than welcome to pay it off one license plate at a time like the rest of the criminals. His loved ones can get support from their families and get jobs.

I completely agree but that's up to the courts to decide after everything plays out. Right now he's innocent until proven guilty and he needs to support his family in the meantime. At this point he is a free man and has every legal and moral right to do so

#32014 1 year ago

Boeing obviously already knows about the civil and criminal complaints.

They don’t care. Most huge publicly listed corporations are probably filled with guys under investigation or indictment for something or other. Not surprised Mueller landed on his feet so quickly, he probably has some old cronies over at Boeing.

This is what people mean when they talk about “privilege.”

#32015 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Boeing obviously already knows about the civil and criminal complaints.
They don’t care. Most huge publicly listed corporations are probably filled with guys under investigation or indictment for something or other. Not surprised Mueller landed on his feet so quickly, he probably has some old cronies over at Boeing.
This is what people mean when they talk about “privilege.”

If for some reason he needed a DOD security clearance, that info (lawsuits) needs to be disclosed. The forms you have to fill it are almost like a biography by the time you get done. Boeing may not have access to it, but if he's denied - then they might find out why.

12
#32016 1 year ago

Boeing has gone from a jewel of American engineering pride, to a national shitstain embarrassment symbolizing everything wrong with modern corporate ops ever since McDonnell-Douglas took them over.

Guy embezzles 60 million and ruins retirement for hundreds, yet walks. Company fucks up its own proven designs trying to give physics the middle finger in pursuit of modern cheapness, lies about it, fires oversight and pays off investigators, kills 400+ innocent people thru its deliberate malfeasance, and almost goes bankrupt thru other related incompetence, yet still exists.

Sounds like a match made in heaven's boardroom to me.

#32017 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Robert has a wife and 2 children who are innocent in all of this. He needs work to support them. He also may be required to pay restitution at some point. Boeing is a big company with lots of employees and doesn't need saving.
I recommend leaving things alone and allow events to play out on their own. If convicted, he'll be a first time offender, not necessarily a repeat offender.

Then the wife should get a job. This really is your stance on this criminal?

#32018 1 year ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Then the wife should get a job. This really your stance on this criminal?

Good grief, please read both of my comments again along with those I responded to.

What is it about innocent until proven guilty that you guys don't understand?

#32019 1 year ago

Has Robert been formally charged with a crime yet?

#32020 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Has Robert been formally charged with a crime yet?

I thought this might be the reply. However, I'm not a judge or jury, but from my point of view, based on more knowledge than possible jurors may know and what may be admissable by lawyers, I'm all guilty on this guy.

Is that a runnon sentance?

I'm not accusing the wife or kids, but Robert did this to himself and the innocent bystanders need to take care of themselves. Robert doesn't get a pass because he has a family.

Edit: I'm adding this because I don't believe Robert being a rich guy, by stealing or not, deserves to continue his lifestlye because that's what he is used to. Same for his family.

#32021 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Robert has a wife and 2 children who are innocent in all of this. He needs work to support them. He also may be required to pay restitution at some point. Boeing is a big company with lots of employees and doesn't need saving.
I recommend leaving things alone and allow events to play out on their own. If convicted, he'll be a first time offender, not necessarily a repeat offender.

Fuck that, you rip off $60,000,000 from retirees. One million x 60 isnt a single offense.

-1
#32022 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Boeing obviously already knows about the civil and criminal complaints.
They don’t care. Most huge publicly listed corporations are probably filled with guys under investigation or indictment for something or other. Not surprised Mueller landed on his feet so quickly, he probably has some old cronies over at Boeing.
This is what people mean when they talk about “privilege.”

White, or otherwise? Depends on political leanings.

#32023 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Has Robert been formally charged with a crime yet?

Never mind, Robert has been charged. However no trial has begun that I'm aware of and he certainly hasn't pleaded or been found guilty or innocent.

15
#32024 1 year ago

Well-off man steals $60 million from retirees - "He has a right to earn for his family!"

Random broke-ass man gets busted for low-level drug charge and send to prison - "Your wife divorces you while in prison and you never see your kids again"

I hate the "P" word but this a classic example of it...

#32025 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Never mind, Robert has been charged. However no trial has begun that I'm aware of and he certainly hasn't pleaded or been found guilty or innocent.

Unless you're breaking major news, there has been no public report of Robert being criminally charged with anything. The SEC actions are a civil complaint.

#32026 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Unless you're breaking major news, there has been no public report of Robert being criminally charge with anything. The SEC actions are a civil complaint.

Thank you for the clarity. Hopefully others will understand it's meaning legally.

#32027 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Thank you for the clarity. Hopefully others will understand it's meaning legally.

I understand it and I support it but I sure hope Justice is meted out in the end.

#32028 1 year ago

I vote for a return to vigilante justice. Old west style.

#32029 1 year ago

Maybe Boeing hires a guy like Robert knowing he's about to go to jail anyways on purpose. Let him sign his name to some stuff for others to cover their butts

Idk. Most likely they just don't care. Can't imagine he'll last there long regardless. He's a fucking moron.

#32030 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Maybe Boeing hires a guy like Robert knowing he's about to go to jail anyways on purpose. Let him sign his name to some stuff for others to cover their butts
Idk. Most likely they just don't care. Can't imagine he'll last there long regardless. He's a fucking moron.

They just look at the resume.

#32031 1 year ago
Quoted from Inside:

It appears that Robert now works at Boeing in finance/government contracts. Very interesting.

Quoted from Richthofen:

Whattttt. Did they not background check him and see he’s being indicted by the SEC?

Quoted from EternitytoM83:

I guess a background check doesn't necessarily reveal anything unless/until criminal charges are filed? But come on, Boeing, all you gotta do is google the guy's name.
[quoted image]

Quoted from benheck:

Boeing is a major US war contractor, and they hire something being legally pursued by the US government?
The mind boggles. At least this cancer has been removed from our hobby.

Quoted from Beechwood:

Seriously, for this reason alone we need to alert someone at Boeing they are employing a "potential" embezzler.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Boeing obviously already knows about the civil and criminal complaints.
They don’t care. Most huge publicly listed corporations are probably filled with guys under investigation or indictment for something or other. Not surprised Mueller landed on his feet so quickly, he probably has some old cronies over at Boeing.
This is what people mean when they talk about “privilege.”

Quoted from mbwalker:

If for some reason he needed a DOD security clearance, that info (lawsuits) needs to be disclosed. The forms you have to fill it are almost like a biography by the time you get done. Boeing may not have access to it, but if he's denied - then they might find out why.

Boeing could absolutely hire him, pending lawsuit and all. He wouldn't be able to work on anything requiring a clearance. He couldn't work on the F-35 program, but there is no reason why he couldn't work liability issues on 737 engines. He will never be able to get a clearance of any sort with a pending lawsuit of that magnitude. The clearance process is not just about rooting out spies. Alot of it is geared towards "Susceptibility to being blackmailed", or "susceptibility to accepting bribes". They really don't want people with financial problems who may compromise their morals for a quick payout... or people having affairs who could be blackmailed. There is no way our boy bobby comes within a mile of military contracts.

#32032 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Aloha. Some hefty documents (one a massive 213-pager) just hit pacer in the bankruptcy proceedings, including the outcome of the Kauai condo and I don't know what else.
Uncle Blueberry has purchased them, meaning they are available on courtlistener (https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61608049/deeproot-capital-management-llc/). However, he does not at present have the time to review them for potential personal info removal as is the SOP before posting them here. So that posting will not happen until he does.
Update: Looks like the 213-pager is about the car wash. So combined with the Hawaii home, we've got some substantial updates on two of the more-beloved side stories. I've not yet seen anything about African gold mining.
Further Update: People who understand and enjoy creative bookkeeping and money moving may enjoy digging into the details of this one.
Update to the Update: There were two Hawaii properties. The trustee is seeking approval for a settlement to get Robert's dad and stepmother (but not Robert) off the hook for the Hawaii shenanigans if they pay back some money.

That’s one information dense document there that’s a bit hard to understand.

It looks like another fire sale where for $1M you get to own a promissory note for a car wash worth $3.5M that’s due to pay out in 2024.

The highest bidder is the current owner of the car wash - if this is approved and the sale goes through, they get to shave off a cool $2.5M from their loan payment.

I’m curious if these are friends of Robert. There’s a Utah connection in there and the car wash is not far from Robert’s house, etc.

Anyone want to pool together their monies? :p

Pinside Carwash Bagholders LLC?

11
#32033 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Well-off man steals $60 million from retirees - "He has a right to earn for his family!"
Random broke-ass man gets busted for low-level drug charge and send to prison - "Your wife divorces you while in prison and you never see your kids again"
I hate the "P" word but this a classic example of it...

Do you mean Privilege like a politician's son having an incriminating laptop buried by law enforcement? Or privilege like the spouse of a high ranking politician buying and selling stocks with insider information?

Yes, I agree our legal system is horribly unfair.

#32034 1 year ago

This thread just got real dumb real fast

#32035 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Boeing could absolutely hire him, pending lawsuit and all. He wouldn't be able to work on anything requiring a clearance. He couldn't work on the F-35 program, but there is no reason why he couldn't work liability issues on 737 engines. He will never be able to get a clearance of any sort with a pending lawsuit of that magnitude. The clearance process is not just about rooting out spies. Alot of it is geared towards "Susceptibility to being blackmailed", or "susceptibility to accepting bribes". They really don't want people with financial problems who may compromise their morals for a quick payout... or people having affairs who could be blackmailed. There is no way our boy bobby comes within a mile of military contracts.

Having worked for and consulted with several large (100k+ ees), I think some may not understand the shear magnitude of jobs that exist in these gigantic companies (Boeing has 150k+ ees). He could be working on something as obscure as adverse impact for upcoming layoffs or DOL assessment of exempt vs non-exempt or ERISA issues or deferred compensation. When I worked at a very large compnay, I got an e-mail one day telling me that they had taken a life insurance policy out on me. Now it wasn't because I was irreplaceable, but rather they purchased life insurance policies on everyone above a certain compensation level. Seems like Robert might have some expertise in this area. The point, as SantaEatsCheese notes, is that there are thousands of jobs and hundreds of obscure/esoteric ones in a company that large.

#32036 1 year ago

How about a break from the current bobert employment chat and talk licenses...

I hadn't heard before about the pinball brothers deeproot connection as mentioned on the most recent Eclectic gamer's podcast. Dennis mentioned that the two companies were in talks about potential license purchase/transfer. He said Queen was offered for 500K and Playboy was offered for 75K. Possible that the queen layout and design done by Barry was part of the bigger purchase price. If this was previously mentioned, feel free to ignore.

#32037 1 year ago

Its frustrating and infuriating that Robert can land himself another presumably cushy job but going after it isn't the right move.

#32038 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Update to the Update: There were two Hawaii properties. The trustee is seeking approval for a settlement to get Robert's dad and stepmother (but not Robert) off the hook for the Hawaii shenanigans if they pay back some money.

Timelines on that looks to be..

Nov 16, 2016: Robert transfers $135,000 directly from a Policy Services account to purchase a condo on Kauai Beach Drive worth $265,000 (from MLS). Looks to be an all cash property purchase.
May 20, 2021: Robert's parents (managers of the trust) sell the same condo for $526,000 ($495k paid to the trust). Robert gets $226,866 from the sale price (Exhibit J).

The family is now agreeing to pay back that $135,000. So they basically got an interest free 5-year loan that netted them ~$118,000 in profit (495*0.51-135) on that $135,000.

The other condo:

Aug 10, 2018: Robert transfers $135,000 directly from a Policy Services account to purchase a condo on Kiahuna Plantation Dr worth $944,968 (from MLS).
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May 7, 2019: Robert signs a letter stating that the $135,000 was a gift from him as part of the standard mortgage closure process (I've gifted money previously and had to provide a similar letter to the lender - this is a standard thing - the lender wants to know why there's $135k sitting in a bank account that can't quite be accounted for).

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May 29, 2019: Closing of the mortgage? I don't understand exhibit G here at all, but it looks like they put in $330k in cash ($135K from policy services) and also took out a mortgage for $719k. That's $1.05M. From that $944k went towards the condo, and then other ~$100k was used to pay down credit cards and pay off cars?? Am I reading that right??
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

Aug 2021, SEC suit names Robert's parents as co-defendants.

Nov 2021, Robert's parents sell the same condo for $1.65M w/ $876,659 in what appears to be pure profit.

So with the $135k they were able to what... probably get preferential loan terms (33% downpayment) and also pay off various debts(?) and bundle it all into a (probably) low interest mortgage(?). That $330k from the initial deposit grew into $876k in just ~2.5 years.

They're giving back that $135k, but that $135k still netted them [135/350*876]=$337k.

Essentially $118k+$337k in profit even when they return ~$300k.

From previous SEC filings we know that Robert lives in a house owned by his dad, and Robert is giving his dad money to buy condos in Hawaii...

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#32039 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

This thread just got real dumb real fast

Just now lol.

#32040 1 year ago

Pretty gross they get to keep profits off of assets bought with stolen goods. Don’t they owe a fuckton?

Whatever they have left is just being hidden…

Can’t imagine how frustrating it is for the victims.

#32041 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Pretty gross they get to keep profits off of assets bought with stolen goods. Don’t they owe a fuckton?

I think this is recovery of money to only refund the bankruptcy estate. The bankruptcy estate now controls Policy Services and so the bankruptcy attorney is trying to get Policy Services' money back. Even though Robert had 100% control of the company, the money still belongs to that corporation.

There is still the SEC civil suit to which Robert's parents are a party. The SEC can levy fines against them as well. Here's Count VII of the indictment:

COUNT VII
Disgorgement of Unjust Enrichment
(All Relief Defendants)
92. Paragraphs 1 through 71 are re-alleged and incorporated here by reference.
93. The Relief Defendants received, directly or indirectly, funds or other property from one or more of the Defendants or the Funds’ investors, which are the proceeds of, in furtherance of, or are traceable to the proceeds of, the unlawful activities alleged in this Complaint to which the Relief Defendants have no legitimate claim. As a consequence, the Relief Defendants have been unjustly enriched.
94. By reason of the foregoing, it would be inequitable for the Relief Defendants to retain the proceeds resulting from Defendants’ violations of the federal securities laws and such proceeds should be disgorged.

Here the trust & his parents are relief defendants. The profits on the properties sure sounds like "unjust enrichment." Who am I kidding though? They'll probably get a gold star sticker for returning the money back without a fuss and a pat on the back for being good Americans.

The kicker here is that if Robert had taken that ~$50M and invested in condos in Hawaii he'd have made ~$50M. Heck, even if he invested only 49% of the money in condos and the other 51% in life insurance policies like the funds promised he'd still be up ~$25M.

#32042 1 year ago

https://www.orrick.com/en/Insights/2020/06/Supreme-Court-Upholds-but-Limits-the-SECs-Imposition-of-Disgorgement-of-Unjust-Enrichment

Neat, a recent SCOTUS case about SEC claims of unjust enrichment in the case where someone ran a fraud.

Implications / Takeaways

The Supreme Court’s decision in Liu v. SEC affirms the SEC’s ability to seek equitable relief in civil proceedings under 15 U.S.C. § 78u(d)(5). However, the disgorgement award cannot go beyond the defendant’s net profits from wrongdoing, discounting legitimate business expenses, and the disgorgement award must be for the benefit of investors. These are important limitations on disgorgement available to the SEC and creates opportunities for defendants to argue against a disgorgement award. The decisions leaves open several questions:

Did the fraudulent conduct cause losses to any definable group of victims to whom disgorgement could be distributed? For example, in the Liu case, such a group could consist of those subscribing to the private placement offering made by Liu and his wife. However, if the SEC is unable to identify harmed investors, then under Liu disgorgement should not be awarded. This issue will be particularly complicated in insider trading actions, where the SEC might be required to identify the precise sellers on the other side of the wrongful purchases (or vice versa) made while in possession of material nonpublic information. Identifying the actual trading counterparty could be challenging or even impossible where the security at issue is a widely traded stock. Similarly, it could be difficult to identify victims that suffered harm stemming from FCPA violations and/or what the amount of harm was to each victim. These issues suggest that the Court’s holding may limit disgorgement to garden variety fraud cases where the victim’s losses result directly from the actions of the defendant.

If the Court is no longer permitting recovery of disgorgement from a defendant for benefits that accrued to someone who was jointly and severally liable, does that rule out the traditional theory in insider trading cases that the tipper must disgorge the benefit that was “gifted” to a tippee? And, moreover, will a first-level tipper be responsible for profits made by a remote tippee with whom she had no interaction?

Lower courts will have to navigate the bar on penalties handed down in Kokesh. Consequently, this will require them to determine how to award disgorgement in an SEC enforcement or civil action without it being a penalty. The difficulties inherent in walking such a fine line creates the potential for a divergence in rulings that could again bring this issue to the Supreme Court.

The ruling in Liu creates the possibility that aggrieved investors will fare better relying on private civil litigation and the remedies afforded under Section 20A of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 to recover from directors and officers benefitting from securities fraud than they would by seeking recovery from fair fund proceeds obtained and distributed by the SEC.

Great, the supreme court made it much harder to disgorge unjust enrichment.

#32043 1 year ago
Quoted from Inside:

They'll probably get a gold star sticker for returning the money back without a fuss and a pat on the back for being good Americans.

it's like when you hear those tax relief commercials "I paid pennies on the dollar thanks to tax relief". So the people that didn't pay their taxes get a break while I pay 100%? cool

Quoted from Inside:

The kicker here is that if Robert had taken that ~$50M and invested in condos in Hawaii he'd have made ~$50M. Heck, even if he invested only 49% of the money in condos and the other 51% in life insurance policies like the funds promised he'd still be up ~$25M.

Yea but real estate is risky #sarcasm

#32044 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Yea but real estate is risky #sarcasm

Yep, not like the "guaranteed returns" from (attempted) pinball manufacturing...

#32045 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Unless you're breaking major news, there has been no public report of Robert being criminally charged with anything. The SEC actions are a civil complaint.

How on earth can there not be criminal charges pending after so many people got their life savings stolen?

Have we as a society really fallen this far - giving the wealthy and politically connected such wide protection after knowingly and intentionally wrong doing?

#32046 1 year ago
Quoted from Oscope:

How on earth can there not be criminal charges pending after so many people got their life savings stolen?
Have we as a society really fallen this far - giving the wealthy and politically connected such wide protection after knowingly and intentionally wrong doing?

It would certainly be interesting to know. Unfortunately, I don't expect they'd tell us if we wrote asking (though I suppose it never hurts to try!).

#32047 1 year ago
Quoted from Inside:

May 29, 2019: Closing of the mortgage? I don't understand exhibit G here at all, but it looks like they put in $330k in cash ($135K from policy services) and also took out a mortgage for $719k. That's $1.05M. From that $944k went towards the condo, and then other ~$100k was used to pay down credit cards and pay off cars?? Am I reading that right??

I think that's correct, plus $2,591.91 cash back at closing.

#32048 1 year ago

"we are going to give you a job in our legal department!"

"yahoo I can continue being a sugar daddy to my mail order bride!"

"you'll be handling the Max 737“

“NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

#32049 1 year ago
Quoted from DudeRegular:

I hadn't heard before about the pinball brothers deeproot connection as mentioned on the most recent Eclectic gamer's podcast. Dennis mentioned that the two companies were in talks about potential license purchase/transfer. He said Queen was offered for 500K and Playboy was offered for 75K. Possible that the queen layout and design done by Barry was part of the bigger purchase price. If this was previously mentioned, feel free to ignore.

I misremembered the figures, I've gone back and checked the message I received. Per the deeproot person, Pinball Brothers wanted *over* $500k for Queen and wanted $125,000 for Playboy (not the $75,000 I stated on the episode). My apologies.

I was also told that at the time deeproot was budgeting $85,000 per machine in development costs. This was all early May 2018.

#32050 1 year ago

Robert, mail order bride and child.

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