(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

3 years ago


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There are 26422 posts in this topic. You are on page 397 of 529.
51
#19801 3 months ago
Quoted from BWT67:

Can someone bullet point RAZA history for me, so I don't need to read the 395 pages?
This company legit? Has the machine been released?

Ready? I'll try to be concise, but it's hard with this mess.

-Jpop takes money to build ~20 Magic Girls (2011)
-Jpop realizes that amount of money makes no sense, so starts a pyramid scheme. Takes money for ~100 RAZAs to pay for MG. Then takes money for Alice In Wonderland to pay for MG.
-Fails.
-Convinces some Chicago locals to start American Pinball, with an unplayable Houdini mockup.
-Fails, AP salvages the project with other people and becomes a pinball company.
-After failing again & owing hundreds of games to people, for some reason RM thinks it's a good idea to hire Jpop to head up his new pinball company, Derp Poop.
-RM brags about how pinball is easy and he's going to make more games than anyone with higher quality & cheaper prices. Claims they won't do pre-orders.
-RM wastes money hiring tons and tons of people to design games & create art and sound....ignores manufacturing, just as Jpop's past failures did.
-Years go by, they have nothing to show for it.
-2020, they show a proto of RAZA and invite "pinball media", they all hate it.
-Time time time time time....
-They try FOMO pre-orders, claim they'll only make the amount of games they sell within a limited time window, barely sell any.
-Now they have people's money, still don't have functioning factory for manufacture.
-So now people who paid for this game like 10 years ago, and a few new pre-orderers are stuck waiting...
-Waiting waiting waiting....

That's where the story is right now.

#19802 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

to be concise

I wasn't that far off...

I think your post should to be marked as a key post...

#19803 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

4 more years! (till RAZA ships)

MJAFADA!

Make JPOP A Failed App Developer Again

#19804 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Ready? I'll try to be concise, but it's hard with this mess.
-Jpop takes money to build ~20 Magic Girls (2011)
-Jpop realizes that amount of money makes no sense, so starts a pyramid scheme. Takes money for ~100 RAZAs to pay for MG. Then takes money for Alice In Wonderland to pay for MG.
-Fails.
-Convinces some Chicago locals to start American Pinball, with an unplayable Houdini mockup.
-Fails, AP salvages the project with other people and becomes a pinball company.
-After failing again & owing hundreds of games to people - for some reason RM thinks it's a good idea to hire Jpop to head up his new pinball company, Derp Poop.
-RM brags about how pinball is easy and he's going to make more games than anyone with higher quality & cheaper prices. Claims they won't do pre-orders.
-RM wastes money hiring tons and tons of people to design games & create art and sound....ignores manufacturing, just as Jpop's past failures did.
-Years go by, they have nothing to show for it.
-2020, they show a proto of RAZA and invite "pinball media", they all hate it.
-Time time time time time....
-They try FOMO pre-orders, claim they'll only make the amount of games they sell within a limited time window, barely sell any.
-Now they have people's money, still don't have functioning factory for manufacture.
-So now people who paid for this game like 10 years ago, and a few new pre-orderers are stuck waiting...
-Waiting waiting waiting....
That's where the story is right now.
//<![CDATA[
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#19805 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Ready? I'll try to be concise, but it's hard with this mess.
-Jpop takes money to build ~20 Magic Girls (2011)
-Jpop realizes that amount of money makes no sense, so starts a pyramid scheme. Takes money for ~100 RAZAs to pay for MG. Then takes money for Alice In Wonderland to pay for MG.
-Fails.
-Convinces some Chicago locals to start American Pinball, with an unplayable Houdini mockup.
-Fails, AP salvages the project with other people and becomes a pinball company.
-After failing again & owing hundreds of games to people - for some reason RM thinks it's a good idea to hire Jpop to head up his new pinball company, Derp Poop.
-RM brags about how pinball is easy and he's going to make more games than anyone with higher quality & cheaper prices. Claims they won't do pre-orders.
-RM wastes money hiring tons and tons of people to design games & create art and sound....ignores manufacturing, just as Jpop's past failures did.
-Years go by, they have nothing to show for it.
-2020, they show a proto of RAZA and invite "pinball media", they all hate it.
-Time time time time time....
-They try FOMO pre-orders, claim they'll only make the amount of games they sell within a limited time window, barely sell any.
-Now they have people's money, still don't have functioning factory for manufacture.
-So now people who paid for this game like 10 years ago, and a few new pre-orderers are stuck waiting...
-Waiting waiting waiting....
That's where the story is right now.

I feel like you left out 'bragged about going through 750k a month'. Seemed like a major milestone.

13
#19806 3 months ago

Don’t forget between Zidware and American Pinball he convinces some Canadian brethren to start a pinball company (Pintasia), with an unplayable Magic Girl mock-up. People forget deeproot is actually the 4th company trying to get this game made…

#19807 3 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I feel like you left out 'bragged about going through 750k a month'. Seemed like a major milestone.

True, until then, we had no idea how bad it actually was.

#19808 3 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I feel like you left out 'bragged about going through 750k a month'. Seemed like a major milestone.

That's like drunk rednecks at the bar "bragging" about how much damage they caused to their truck during a DUI.

#19809 3 months ago

It's a good summary and yet you could add a second list of the same size and still not cover all of the high/lowlights. It's groundbreaking that a pinball company has delivered so many jammed-packed years of entertainment without making a single machine.

#19810 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

MJAFADA!
Make JPOP A Failed App Developer Again

Do not develop his app!

Glootie.png
#19811 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Ready? I'll try to be concise, but it's hard with this mess.
-Jpop takes money to build ~20 Magic Girls (2011)
-Jpop realizes that amount of money makes no sense, so starts a pyramid scheme. Takes money for ~100 RAZAs to pay for MG. Then takes money for Alice In Wonderland to pay for MG.
-Fails.
-Convinces some Chicago locals to start American Pinball, with an unplayable Houdini mockup.
-Fails, AP salvages the project with other people and becomes a pinball company.
-After failing again & owing hundreds of games to people, for some reason RM thinks it's a good idea to hire Jpop to head up his new pinball company, Derp Poop.
-RM brags about how pinball is easy and he's going to make more games than anyone with higher quality & cheaper prices. Claims they won't do pre-orders.
-RM wastes money hiring tons and tons of people to design games & create art and sound....ignores manufacturing, just as Jpop's past failures did.
-Years go by, they have nothing to show for it.
-2020, they show a proto of RAZA and invite "pinball media", they all hate it.
-Time time time time time....
-They try FOMO pre-orders, claim they'll only make the amount of games they sell within a limited time window, barely sell any.
-Now they have people's money, still don't have functioning factory for manufacture.
-So now people who paid for this game like 10 years ago, and a few new pre-orderers are stuck waiting...
-Waiting waiting waiting....
That's where the story is right now.

Somewhere in there JPOP also made a bootleg KISS foamcore and presented it at MGC at the same time Stern were in development of a real KISS game.

He was also the rumoured "big American designer" behind the smash hit Thunderbirds.

The man definitley has the Midas touch.
00-kiss1 (resized).jpg00-kiss2 (resized).jpg00-kiss4 (resized).jpg

#19812 3 months ago

I hadn’t heard he had a hand in Thunderbirds before

The Kiss proto shows off a few of the patents he filed for. There’s the below the glass LCD in the back that would (presumably) interact with gameplay. He also has a patent on a truss system for putting lights and other playfield elements on that you can see along the sides of the playfield.

It’s also a great example of him doing artwork before finishing a playfield design, which is an incredible waste of money unless you’re running a scam knowing people only look at art and don’t think too hard about the rest. Or it’s a particularly shitty EM inspired design. He didn’t even bother with putting the sling mechs and rubbers in

#19813 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

It’s also a great example of him doing artwork

Him contracting artwork, rather. I don’t think he’s ever done his own art, to my knowledge. He’s great at putting together foam cores though

#19814 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I hadn’t heard he had a hand in Thunderbirds before

Was just a rumour that was never confirmed (or denied for that matter).

He definitely loved his art, but yeh, AFAIK he hasn't ever produced any art himself. If nothing else we could give him credit for appreciating that good art can sell games.

#19815 3 months ago

Good point. I knew it wasn’t his art but it’s easy to fall into that JPop reality distortion field.

#19816 3 months ago

Could a Deeproot + Pinball Adventures merger be in the works??

Screen Shot 2021-07-15 at 9.31.20 PM (resized).png

#19817 3 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Could a Deeproot + Pinball Adventures merger be in the works??

Does anybody care??

#19818 3 months ago
Quoted from Lounge:

Does anybody care??

Literally dozens!

#19819 3 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Could a Deeproot + Pinball Adventures merger be in the works??

Pinball Dunning meets pinball Kruger.

#19820 3 months ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Could a Deeproot + Pinball Adventures merger be in the works??

Punny No Factory

#19821 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Car lot drive by manana with pics.

Save your gas. No one cares.

#19822 3 months ago

I wonder if DR is still planning the $500/year subscription service plan. That'll really up the resale of these uber rare machines!

#19823 3 months ago

Hmm, this could be an easy/good Food Truck retheme. Then at least it would be a license. Plus, there's all ready a PinballFX table for the show. So we know they're open to video game and pinball licensing.

bobs-burgers-food-truck.0 (resized).jpg
#19824 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Ready? I'll try to be concise, but it's hard with this mess.
-Jpop takes money to build ~20 Magic Girls (2011)
-Jpop realizes that amount of money makes no sense, so starts a pyramid scheme. Takes money for ~100 RAZAs to pay for MG. Then takes money for Alice In Wonderland to pay for MG.
-Fails.
-Convinces some Chicago locals to start American Pinball, with an unplayable Houdini mockup.
-Fails, AP salvages the project with other people and becomes a pinball company.
-After failing again & owing hundreds of games to people, for some reason RM thinks it's a good idea to hire Jpop to head up his new pinball company, Derp Poop.
-RM brags about how pinball is easy and he's going to make more games than anyone with higher quality & cheaper prices. Claims they won't do pre-orders.
-RM wastes money hiring tons and tons of people to design games & create art and sound....ignores manufacturing, just as Jpop's past failures did.
-Years go by, they have nothing to show for it.
-2020, they show a proto of RAZA and invite "pinball media", they all hate it.
-Time time time time time....
-They try FOMO pre-orders, claim they'll only make the amount of games they sell within a limited time window, barely sell any.
-Now they have people's money, still don't have functioning factory for manufacture.
-So now people who paid for this game like 10 years ago, and a few new pre-orderers are stuck waiting...
-Waiting waiting waiting....
That's where the story is right now.

FFS! These owners ever chime in on pinside, or are they pretty much dormant lurkers? Ive had a few encounters with start-up synthesizer companies with a similar model, but thankfully was able to get my cash back.

#19825 3 months ago
Quoted from BWT67:

FFS! These owners ever chime in on pinside, or are they pretty much dormant lurkers? Ive had a few encounters with start-up synthesizer companies with a similar model, but thankfully was able to get my cash back.

They have their own thread. Its very cult like. Worth checking out though just for fascination purposes. They used to post in here but they got sick of all our "negativity" (Aka reality of the situation). Its the RAZA pre-order thread

It is interesting though, you can see a lot of them are really getting fed up with the situation. Some are coming to their senses. Others don't care. They think they have some kind of lotto ticket.

#19826 3 months ago

I do understand the pre-order mindset where it's only $500 on the line, or a promise as a former Zidware customer. There's not a whole lot of downside with "keeping the faith".

The ones that paid in full in advance seem to be the ones doing the gut check, for good reason.

#19827 3 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

I do understand the pre-order mindset where it's only $500 on the line, or a promise as a former Zidware customer. There's not a whole lot of downside with "keeping the faith".
The ones that paid in full in advance seem to be the ones doing the gut check, for good reason.

Thats true, except imo and I don't mean to actually offend anyone who is a preorderer when I say this but its just not a good look. You look like a damn fool to ignore all the red flags AND to support such a shitty company. I know people throw away money on way dumber things all the time, but come on man. You just look like a sucker, plus you're supporting a bunch of assholes (save me the pearl clutching, I know theres a lot of good folks there, you know exactly what I mean).

#19828 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

They have their own thread. Its very cult like. Worth checking out though just for fascination purposes. They used to post in here but they got sick of all our "negativity" (Aka reality of the situation). Its the RAZA pre-order thread
It is interesting though, you can see a lot of them are really getting fed up with the situation. Some are coming to their senses. Others don't care. They think they have some kind of lotto ticket.

Yelobird just blocks people who have a different world view from him. Hard to look at reality when you create your own echo chamber.

#19829 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Yelobird just blocks people who have a different world view from him. Hard to look at reality when you create your own echo chamber.

Say what? I have yet to have a single person blocked. Maybe your just not that interesting to reply to?

#19830 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Yelobird just blocks people who have a different world view from him. Hard to look at reality when you create your own echo chamber.

That's more of an Ice thing...

-1
#19831 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Say what? I have yet to have a single person blocked. Maybe your just not that interesting to reply to?

I asked you a specific question, which you completely ignored.

#19832 3 months ago

Eh...

Quoted from DakotaMike:

Hmm, this could be an easy/good Food Truck retheme. Then at least it would be a license. Plus, there's all ready a PinballFX table for the show. So we know they're open to video game and pinball licensing.
[quoted image]

That would have been a better theme. They already paid for the actually pretty nice cutscenes for a Food Truck game. But if they rethemed it and gave the option of Bobs Burgers vs Food Truck, I bet it would be at least 10x1 sales for the licensed theme. (Ignoring the whole, they don't actually deliver games thing)

#19833 3 months ago

Can we all just admit that we love Food Truck now?

I really think this could be Deep Root's big breakthrough. Maybe just give up on RAZA and give the people what they want.

I honestly believe Food Truck would be a decent seller. At least compared to RAZA (I know, I know).

#19834 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can we all just admit that we love Food Truck now?
I really think this could be Deep Root's big breakthrough. Maybe just give up on RAZA and give the people what they want.
I honestly believe Food Truck would be a decent seller. At least compared to RAZA (I know, I know).

#19835 3 months ago

Something like Food Truck could be interesting if they made the game actually full of good humor (like a lot of old Bally/Williams games)... but then again what was the last game that was actually funny? Seems like that's been lost long ago...and if they do try and interject comedic elements it seems awfully forced..

#19836 3 months ago
Quoted from valgalder:

Something like Food Truck could be interesting if they made the game actually full of good humor (like a lot of old Bally/Williams games)... but then again what was the last game that was actually funny? Seems like that's been lost long ago...and if they do try and interject comedic elements it seems awfully forced..

You forgot to add …. “and if they actually make a game.”

#19837 3 months ago
Quoted from valgalder:

Something like Food Truck could be interesting if they made the game actually full of good humor (like a lot of old Bally/Williams games)... but then again what was the last game that was actually funny? Seems like that's been lost long ago...and if they do try and interject comedic elements it seems awfully forced..

It really seems like effective humor in pinball died with Bally/Williams.

Though I haven't spent much time with the new Elvira. I do enjoy the fact that it's got an anal sex joke right on a playfield plastic!!! (that's gotta be a first...and people say there's no innovation!)

#19838 3 months ago
Quoted from Lounge:

You forgot to add …. “and if they actually make a game.”

Well yeah.. lets not get too crazy here..

#19839 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can we all just admit that we love Food Truck now?
I really think this could be Deep Root's big breakthrough. Maybe just give up on RAZA and give the people what they want.
I honestly believe Food Truck would be a decent seller. At least compared to RAZA (I know, I know).

If they could actually manufacture a game. The Bob's Burger version of Food Truck would be my pick if they would do two versions.

They should have had a club similar to a real manufacturer (Fang Club) to order early - The Root Vegetable Club. But I guess that's the RAZA preorder group anyway... I think more Bob's Burger versions would sell over the plain Food Truck theme.

#19840 3 months ago
Quoted from Lounge:

You forgot to add …. “and if they actually make a game.”

Yup - crazy talk.

But there is new hope with a Root update projected for announcement sometime next week. I wonder what the update will be.

10
#19841 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It really seems like effective humor in pinball died with Bally/Williams.

It's really missing in pinball I agree. I really like the new Elvira but I wouldn't call it funny per se.

Even if it has amazing art, humor and mechs Food Truck is still a dumb cel phone app meme theme. There's no fantasy, no wish fulfillment.

As for humor, I've read Bowden's RAZA stuff. It's awful. Maybe rules are great but the writing isn't. You need the fast, clever and terse humor like "Come on in and let's take this outside!" or "Let's get married so we can have an divorce!".... Course Second City people worked on that game, not just a guy who was good at playing pinball.

Whatever is going on at DR it's running on sheer ego and hubris. They spent 20+ million and RAZA couldn't outsell AMH.... which we spent maybe 50k making. FAIL!

-6
#19842 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

You look like a damn fool to ignore all the red flags AND to support such a shitty company. I know people throw away money on way dumber things all the time, but come on man. You just look like a sucker, plus you're supporting a bunch of assholes

Wtf is this shaming. If my preorder money goes into the void for nothing I deal with that myself. What is shocking me normally it’s not allowed to defame a pinball company not having conceded yet here with „shitty company“ but with deeproot its alright.

-8
#19843 3 months ago

Your post is criminal.

#19844 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

It's really missing in pinball I agree. I really like the new Elvira but I wouldn't call it funny per se.
Even if it has amazing art, humor and mechs Food Truck is still a dumb cel phone app meme theme. There's no fantasy, no wish fulfillment.
As for humor, I've read Bowden's RAZA stuff. It's awful. Maybe rules are great but the writing isn't. You need the fast, clever and terse humor like "Come on in and let's take this outside!" or "Let's get married so we can have an divorce!".... Course Second City people worked on that game, not just a guy who was good at playing pinball.
Whatever is going on at DR it's running on sheer ego and hubris. They spent 20+ million and RAZA couldn't outsell AMH.... which we spent maybe 50k making. FAIL!

Yeah the alien princess “who is like totally over this invasion thing” isn’t exactly
Tickling the funny bone.

#19845 3 months ago
Quoted from Makakka:

Your post is criminal.

Yeah someone set up a tribunal!

#19846 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can we all just admit that we love Food Truck now?
I really think this could be Deep Root's big breakthrough. Maybe just give up on RAZA and give the people what they want.
I honestly believe Food Truck would be a decent seller. At least compared to RAZA (I know, I know).

I legitimately always liked the idea of Food Truck as a modern original theme (if they're going to do original themes, which people don't actually want that bad as proven by the market).

Especially if they approach it like the video game Overcooked. It should be the player bouncing around between prepping ingredients, putting things on burners and fryers, but not for too long or a fire starts, and then serving people before they get too impatient and leave you bad reviews online. Travel to different places and events, like the beach, brew pubs, and stadium tailgate parties. Get enough social media followers to be invited to a food truck festival and try to be voted best truck.

It could have whacky elements of trying to keep the truck clean while the evil health inspector chases you around town (ie Hugo from Bob's Burgers). Use the PinBar™ as a counter where you have to take your hands off the flippers to collect tips, wipe off dirt, and kill bugs crawling around.

It's a relatable theme and cooking as a concept hasn't been done. Diner sorta tried but didn't get too deep into the concept.

#19847 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

It's really missing in pinball I agree. I really like the new Elvira but I wouldn't call it funny per se.
Even if it has amazing art, humor and mechs Food Truck is still a dumb cel phone app meme theme. There's no fantasy, no wish fulfillment.
As for humor, I've read Bowden's RAZA stuff. It's awful. Maybe rules are great but the writing isn't. You need the fast, clever and terse humor like "Come on in and let's take this outside!" or "Let's get married so we can have an divorce!".... Course Second City people worked on that game, not just a guy who was good at playing pinball.
Whatever is going on at DR it's running on sheer ego and hubris. They spent 20+ million and RAZA couldn't outsell AMH.... which we spent maybe 50k making. FAIL!

It's surprising Stern and co don't outsource more of the writing to get that humor. Some games like Deadpool had Brian Posehn work on the script, but there are a million improv troupes out there with kids hungry for a paycheck and some exposure for their resume.

It's amusing in retrospect that Tina Fey and Scott Adsit wrote and voiced games like Medieval Madness. But they were just some twenty something no bodies trying to get by before getting their big breaks.

#19848 3 months ago

Treyboy all the things you describe are better done with a touch screen on a cell phone app.

#19849 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Treyboy all the things you describe are better done with a touch screen on a cell phone app.

You could say that about a lot of pinball game concepts

#19850 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

You could say that about a lot of pinball game concepts

Oh i agree. Whacking a ball around a piece of wood is quite abstract, it's very representative. Which is why theme is very important. You don't have the tactile one to one satisfaction of something like Cooking Mama.

There are 26422 posts in this topic. You are on page 397 of 529.

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