(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#32201 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Deeproot folks told me that was the last place they knew it to be. So yeah, sounds like it doesn't make sense to expect it to still be there. Just that that was its last known whereabouts.

A few minutes of googling gives a terms sheet for Intertek (Sri Lanka office - but similar terms apply everywhere). Paragraph 12 gives 3 days to remove equipment after testing before it is considered abandoned.

https://www.intertek.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=34359741463

#32202 1 year ago
Quoted from Inside:

Why would it be at Intertek?
I’ve indirectly dealt with Intertek before and I know they’re a huge testing company where a day of testing costs around $10k (depending on test(s), difficulty of setup, etc). For them to even do any administrative work (“open up the report”) like to fix a typo costs around $1000. They also charge storage fees for equipment. They’re not going to keep something bulky like a pinball machine (probably in its Pinpod!) around for very long. It was there for testing in ~July 2021! It’s either in the landfill or they legally took possession (via an abandonment clause) of it and now it’s at somebody’s house.

I used to work at a subsidiary of Intertek. That thing is long gone and good luck trying to track it back down lol. God awful company to work for.

But we tossed shit the moment we weren't required to have it anymore (typically 56 days after pick up). Testing samples are assumed to be trashed unless otherwise specified.

10
#32203 1 year ago

"The pinbar has been famously been described as the greatest innovation in the history of pinball.

Would it not therefore be reasonable to directly contact Stern, Jersey Jack, American, and other pinball manufacturers to inquire about their potential interest in bidding on its patent and software rather than depending on their combing through a hobbyist forum thread with 32,000 posts, many of them by a user going by the name sataneatscheese?"

#32204 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

"The pinbar has been famously been described as the greatest innovation in the history of pinball.
Would it not therefore be reasonable to directly contact Stern, Jersey Jack, American, and other pinball manufacturers to inquire about their potential interest in bidding on its patent and software rather than depending on their combing through a hobbyist forum thread with 32,000 posts, many of them by a user going by the name sataneatscheese?"

Ugh, now that would have been worth recording for posterity

#32205 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Trustee clearly annoyed with way Jurek does business inside about outside of the court.

Totally spaced on this and missed it, but this is pretty much what I expected. I'd be looking for new representation too, if she were representing my interests.

#32206 1 year ago

"I now turn your attention to Exhibit K, a 2 hour and 30 minute podcast interview in which American Pinball Chief Everything Officer David Fix discusses at length his interest in acquiring the deeproot pinball ip. Let's listen quietly."

#32207 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

"I now turn your attention to Exhibit K, a 2 hour and 30 minute podcast interview in which American Pinball Chief Everything Officer David Fix discusses at length his interest in acquiring the deeproot pinball ip. Let's listen quietly."

I can't tell if this is serious or not.

#32208 1 year ago
Quoted from JStoltz:

Totally spaced on this and missed it, but this is pretty much what I expected. I'd be looking for new representation too, if she were representing my interests.

Yeah, I'll write up a few of the other interesting moments from the proceedings (not just related to Jurek - no shade, Lynn!) later.

#32209 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I can't tell if this is serious or not.

There are a couple podcasts in which Fix talks for I'd guess cumulatively 20 minutes about wanting to buy the deeproot stuff. The 2h30 is probably small exaggeration in total run time (not just Fix interview) of one of those episodes from Pinball News and Magazine (they do once-monthly pincasts that are quite long - and good!).

#32210 1 year ago

very interesting stuff going on, greatly appreciate the updates!

#32211 1 year ago

"Handsome hotel magnate Bill Brandes has consistently asserted that he remains the legal owner of the Zidware intellectual property including in this proposed sale, including Magic Girl and RAZA. Has the trustee investigated these claims to ensure that the trustee has the legal authority to liquidate these assets?"

#32212 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

There are a couple podcasts in which Fix talks for I'd guess cumulatively 20 minutes about wanting to buy the deeproot stuff. The 2h30 is probably small exaggeration in total run time (not just Fix interview) of one of those episodes from Pinball News and Magazine (they do once-monthly pincasts that are quite long - and good!).

Yeah I knew his thirst was documented, I just didn't know if that was a quote said in court

#32213 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Yeah I knew his thirst was documented, I just didn't know if that was a quote said in court

Oh no. It wasn't. I'm roleplaying what could have been if the objecting creditors had hired Blueberry esq to represent them. None of my "quotes" were actual quotes.

#32214 1 year ago

So anyways... what was it Turner bought? Now he has the media assets to go with the prototype software and some of the prototype engineering drawings or something?

#32215 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

So anyways... what was it Turner bought? Now he has the media assets to go with the prototype software and some of the prototype engineering drawings or something?

He bought the rights to the "Oak Island of Pinball"

#32216 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

He bought the rights to the "Oak Island of Pinball"

Located off the shore of Nova Scotia...

I know the ring leader of this harebrained operation!

#32217 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

"The pinbar has been famously been described as the greatest innovation in the history of pinball.
Would it not therefore be reasonable to directly contact Stern, Jersey Jack, American, and other pinball manufacturers to inquire about their potential interest in bidding on its patent and software rather than depending on their combing through a hobbyist forum thread with 32,000 posts, many of them by a user going by the name sataneatscheese?"

Who now what what?

#32218 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

So anyways... what was it Turner bought? Now he has the media assets to go with the prototype software and some of the prototype engineering drawings or something?

Screenshots in this post (and the content in the attached doc), with a pending amendment regarding the missing prototype

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/642#post-7208915

Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Though in slow motion, the other deeproot pinball assets sell-off shoe has finally dropped.

Trustee motion to sell off the remaining deeproot pinball property (physical, software, IP) has been submitted to the judge for review. It also includes proposal for dealing with office stuff in Utah.'

Stalking Horse #2: Turner Logic offering $50k for the Pinball Property. Opponent bidders would need to offer at least $60k.

Trustee, as current owner of deeproot IP, also wants to grant Turner a pinball software license in consideration for the horse.

Attaching screenshot excerpts from a single skim, along with full file.

#32219 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Screenshots in this post (and the content in the attached doc), with a pending amendment regarding the missing prototype
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/642#post-7208915

The missing prototype is the one that went out for testing. What about the one in Washington the document references? I assume that was David Thiels. Whatever happened to that one? Does Chris Turner have to show up at Thiel's house to take it? Does Thiel even still have it?

#32220 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Handsome hotel magnate Bill Brandes

That’s straight off his LinkedIn.

#32221 1 year ago

I just searched the US patent website for pinball. Some of the stupidest things get approved. Remember John Carmack, the original creator of Doom and videogames who hated patents. Remember Elon who said his patents were free to use to continue electric car innovation. Some guy in Taiwan patented a two player pinball machine, even though I thought it was already invented long ago. (approved in 2021).

I didn't see the pinbar patent but I saw WO2021133990A1. Once again, a corrupt government system. If you can patent the idea of pressing a button on a touchscreen, then we need to take some people out back.

#32222 1 year ago

Just came across this too, by George Gomez. Not sure if this encapsulates all network online interfacing with a pinball machine (apps like Insider), but damn, our patent office is insane if this grants the ability to limit all other companies to hook up a pinball machine online. Will have to deep dive into that.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#32223 1 year ago
Quoted from dpadam450:

Just came across this too, by George Gomez. Not sure if this encapsulates all network online interfacing with a pinball machine (apps like Insider), but damn, our patent office is insane if this grants the ability to limit all other companies to hook up a pinball machine online. Will have to deep dive into that.
[quoted image]

It shouldn't because other companies put pins online well before Stern. There's probably some hyper specific language about what is and isn't covered.

#32224 1 year ago

Deal is done. There's a new owner of MG, RAZA, AIW, and SMX (#4? #5?).

deeprootcapital-207-2022.11.22.pdfdeeprootcapital-207-2022.11.22.pdf
#32225 1 year ago
Quoted from Inside:A few minutes of googling gives a terms sheet for Intertek (Sri Lanka office - but similar terms apply everywhere). Paragraph 12 gives 3 days to remove equipment after testing before it is considered abandoned.
https://www.intertek.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=34359741463

I wonder if that means it was hauled away as trash.

#32226 1 year ago
Quoted from dpadam450:

Just came across this too, by George Gomez. Not sure if this encapsulates all network online interfacing with a pinball machine (apps like Insider), but damn, our patent office is insane if this grants the ability to limit all other companies to hook up a pinball machine online. Will have to deep dive into that.
[quoted image]

Yeah, I'm not sure how that is worthy of a patent. Pin2k had network features.

And plenty of other devices are networked (even household appliances), so it's not unique at all.

At first glance, it seems really strange for that patent to be granted.

#32227 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Deal is done. There's a new owner of MG, RAZA, AIW, and SMX (#4? #5?).
[quoted image]

And the PinPod too.

#32228 1 year ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

And the PinPod too.

Technically that was an existing product that deeproot basically stamped a logo on.

#32229 1 year ago

Almost time for another Turner puzzle…

11
#32230 1 year ago

And so begins the second decade of the sordid tale that is Jpop's Games.

#32231 1 year ago

Some of the enterprising homebrewers who picked up stuff at the auction have been quiet.

I don’t think Turner can take what they bought. But does it affect what they can do with that stuff?

I wanna see more of that Luchadore game… you plunge the ball and it rings a bell! That’s good stuff

#32232 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Yeah, I'm not sure how that is worthy of a patent. Pin2k had network features.
And plenty of other devices are networked (even household appliances), so it's not unique at all.
At first glance, it seems really strange for that patent to be granted.

So the only thing actually patented is in the claim language. As others have suggested it is likely very hyper specific in claim language to specify only an advance on prior art. For sure they did not patient having network connected pins. Probably just specific features of that connectivity that are unique.

#32233 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Some of the enterprising homebrewers who picked up stuff at the auction have been quiet.
I don’t think Turner can take what they bought. But does it affect what they can do with that stuff?
I wanna see more of that Luchadore game… you plunge the ball and it rings a bell! That’s good stuff

Turner certainly wouldn't have any claim to property homebrewers purchased. Maybe if any of them moved to do something commercial with them. But I've not heard any reason to expect that.

Maybe Chris will provide some update on his plans + progress now that that acquisition stage has cleared.

#32234 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

And so begins the second decade of the sordid tale that is Jpop's Games.

To be fair, it began in 2021.

#32235 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Some of the enterprising homebrewers who picked up stuff at the auction have been quiet.
I don’t think Turner can take what they bought. But does it affect what they can do with that stuff?
I wanna see more of that Luchadore game… you plunge the ball and it rings a bell! That’s good stuff

Don't hold your breath on that anytime soon. The game has quite a few incomplete mechs... One of which I don't even know what the intention was with it. Not sure how it was supposed to function.

#32236 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

Don't hold your breath on that anytime soon. The game has quite a few incomplete mechs... One of which I don't even know what the intention was with it. Not sure how it was supposed to function.

Is it what looks like the spinning center bash toy ala the ToM chest, what look like some sort of outlane save “punch” feature, the catapult to…somewhere (maybe the upper lanes that spin), the ball lock with some sort of up ramp for access, something else?

It’s a cool theme and the prototype photos I saw had some neat theme integration ideas.

#32237 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Is it what looks like the spinning center bash toy ala the ToM chest, what look like some sort of outlane save “punch” feature, the catapult to…somewhere (maybe the upper lanes that spin), the ball lock with some sort of up ramp for access, something else?
It’s a cool theme and the prototype photos I saw had some neat theme integration ideas.

The one in particular is what appears to be 4 targets that spin around. It's not even fastened to the playfield or bracket. Just plopped on there

#32238 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Yeah, I'm not sure how that is worthy of a patent. Pin2k had network features.

The patent office isn't going to know every single piece of prior art, especially one from a company that wound down its operations literally 2 business days after it was revealed to the public. However, you are 100% correct that p2k completely invalidates every single independent claim they have.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

And plenty of other devices are networked (even household appliances), so it's not unique at all.

I haven't looked at the prosecution yet, but I would assume they started with a way wider net and had to keep narrowing it down until the USPO thought it was unique enough. It's all about "first to file" and uniqueness within your art now.
But you still can't get past prior art.

#32239 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

The one in particular is what appears to be 4 targets that spin around. It's not even fastened to the playfield or bracket. Just plopped on there

I’m guessing it’s the TOM mech or maybe even a CV like mech in early prototype stage.

15
#32240 1 year ago
ZdEEPROOT 1 (resized).jpgZdEEPROOT 1 (resized).jpg
#32241 1 year ago

All right, it's time for our legal friends to weigh in. To this lay blueberry, this seems like a major development.

Well over one year since the SEC's initial complaint against Mueller—and nearly that long hearing about work toward a settlement—Robert's lawyer files an amended answer.

Details would require cross checking as each paragraph references a paragraph from the complaint (and I certainly welcome those). However, I don't believe you need to review the complaint to grasp the gist of the response.

The gist: Everything the SEC claims is BS, Bobby did nothing wrong, bring on the trial.

Seems a surprising way to go after dad and stepmom were able to skate only having to return the money put toward the condo purchases (but none of the profits from their sales).

SEC-75-2022.11.30.pdfSEC-75-2022.11.30.pdf

Let's get ready to rumble?

#32242 1 year ago

Bobby is gonna skate. It's what "rich" white collar criminals do unless they do something REALLY bad (IE: steal a shit ton from other rich people).

#32243 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

The gist: Everything the SEC claims is BS, Bobby did nothing wrong, bring on the trial.

Also, if he did do anything wrong, it was only because his lawyer said it was OK, which makes it OK.
And he also wants the SEC to pay his legal fees, since he did nothing wrong.

I have no experience with anything like this, but I would guess that "Deny everything" is a standard legal defense tactic.

#32244 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

[quoted image]

His teeth are disgusting, how could anyone even talk to this guy, the breath os sooo bad.

#32245 1 year ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

All right, it's time for our legal friends to weigh in. To this lay blueberry, this seems like a major development.
Well over one year since the SEC's initial complaint against Mueller—and nearly that long hearing about work toward a settlement—Robert's lawyer files an amended answer.
Details would require cross checking as each paragraph references a paragraph from the complaint (and I certainly welcome those). However, I don't believe you need to review the complaint to grasp the gist of the response.
The gist: Everything the SEC claims is BS, Bobby did nothing wrong, bring on the trial.
Seems a surprising way to go after dad and stepmom were able to skate only having to return the money put toward the condo purchases (but none of the profits from their sales).
[quoted image]
Let's get ready to rumble?

As a litigator, my guess is that the primary purpose of the amended answer was to add one or more affirmative defenses.

However, I have not compared this amended answer to the original answer.

#32246 1 year ago
Quoted from RCA1:

I have no experience with anything like this, but I would guess that "Deny everything" is a standard legal defense tactic.

You must have missed the day when Robert pled the 5th about 400 times in a deposition conference call

#32247 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Bobby is gonna skate. It's what "rich" white collar criminals do unless they do something REALLY bad (IE: steal a shit ton from other rich people).

I would imagine by playing it out as long as possible it delays an inevitable indictment. I'm under the assumption the only thing the SEC does is fine and make recommendations to the US Attorney. I think your wrong Levi. He has many victims. My attorney brother thought the justice dept hasn't indicted yet as they are waiting for this to be adjudicated. Brother thought for sure his ass would be indicted in the central district of CA here if there is any jurisdiction (likely) and the US Attorney where the SEC case is filed doesn't indict. The feds prosecute for way, way less here than this guy has done. This asshole thief might be wanting to drag as many people into a future indictment as possible, or trying to drag it out as long as possible. Or both.

"Every day above ground is a good one"
Mel from Scarface

"Every day not in federal custody is a good one" Me

15
#32249 1 year ago

The article does a very good job in outlining the saga's circuitous history.

The only significant event omitted is the Pintasia episode, which predated American Pinball's involvement. For those unfamiliar with that development, collector Bill Brandes formed Pintasia as a bona fide effort to rescue the project, when it became clear that Zidware was fatally faltering.

Transporting a Magic Girl prototype from Illinois to the northwest pinball show at the behest of Pintasia was itself a saga of monumental proportion.

Prior to Pintasia's formation, I had already drafted the lawsuit and I had hired Zane Smith, Esquire in Chicago to file it on my behalf. A couple of weeks later, Pintasia reimbursed my deposit to clear the path to its rescue effort, since that litigation would have impeded the endeavor.

Thereafter, nineteen collectors joined the suit when Pintasia announced that it had changed course and would not be taking over the project. The Magic Girl prototype's primitive condition convinced Bill Brandes to abandon the Pintasia take-over of Zidware.

Kudos to Kim and the other plaintiffs who tenaciously navigated their reimbursement claims to this successful result. Now, everyone ought to get the word out so that these items sell expeditiously.

#32250 1 year ago

So did the "nineteen" people in the lawsuit each lose just a $500 deposit, or did they each lose the full $15,000?

It's unclear to me how many people lost what.

Besides the 19, how many people put in money for a Magic Girl and/or other machine?
And how many of them actually got a refund out of deeproot?

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