Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from greatwichjohn:As for anything to come from the auction or manufacturing post Deeproot fiasco stay tuned. Likely a number of players are looking at something, nothing, or go their own route. Even Jpop will likely find another home in the pinball world.
This is the quality greatwichjohn content I come here for.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Was it communicated that the Black Hole machine doesn't work?
If memory serves, Black Hole was not operational when I worked there in 2019, if that info helps anybody.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:As for anything to come from the auction or manufacturing post Deeproot fiasco stay tuned. Likely a number of players are looking at something, nothing, or go their own route.
Shot in the dark (and forgive me if you've already weighed in on this), but are you at liberty to say who?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Not showing of any quantity of cabinets, finished playfields, parts, employees working. Guess we got the maybe they have caught up on any Celts builds & demand purchases past the deposits for Fathom. Wish them the best, but maybe hire a PR Person or be more honest about production problems.
I had to exit the thread and flush it.
The total lack of any awareness SOMETHING COULD BE WRONG was too much for me to take. And people wonder how the trainwreck that is known as deeproot could have proceeded as long as it did.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Shot in the dark (and forgive me if you've already weighed in on this), but are you at liberty to say who?
No I cannot at this time come out & name the different parties. Along with trying to stay out of non USA players, that are in the arena of pinball manufacturing or should be in the near future. Contrary to the non believers there are multiple groups that I continue to talk pinball production with. Haggis & a few other known groups I do not have talks with at this time.
Like I have said if other parties win something at auction, I will try to help out to finish if possible. It is a long shot but there is still hope. Worse case is you retheme & rework what you get. I will be at Pintastic Show in June to promote EZ Pinball & their cabinets in my booth space. I may get a spot to speak if there is a no show. If not I will be there to talk with people about pinball topics.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Even Jpop will likely find another home in the pinball world.
One bedroom, zero bath flat: featuring minimalistic architecture, sturdy wooden siding, roof and foundation, overlooking a picturesque bankruptcy auction.
Screenshot_20220320-162347_Chrome (resized).jpgQuoted from frobozz:With the possible of greatwichjohn's mysterious friends, to whom would that IP possibly be an asset? Everyone else would consider it a Superfund site.
But the one thing I'm curious about tho is...if DR paid Tuyo for RAZA code (i.e. IP), why would Tuyo come in can grab the servers like some people are speculating? And come to think of it, why bother to grab the servers (if they did), surely they already have the source code for DR support, if nothing else. But in the end, if DR paid for it...it's DR's, not Tuyo's.
And why doesn't it show up somewhere in the court docs?
Just odd...
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Sorry I am not taking a dump on the fanboys lovefest of Fathom 2.0 Just saying another finished example like #2, Rick has likely #1 to approve. How many more new Fathom builds are there Damian? Not showing of any quantity of cabinets, finished playfields, parts, employees working. Guess we got the maybe they have caught up on any Celts builds & demand purchases past the deposits for Fathom. Wish them the best, but maybe hire a PR Person or be more honest about production problems.
As for anything to come from the auction or manufacturing post Deeproot fiasco stay tuned. Likely a number of players are looking at something, nothing, or go their own route. Even Jpop will likely find another home in the pinball world.
I posted that only because of the following:
How come you were so bizarrely optimistic over Deeproot when it was clear from the start it was a flaming albatross yet still question Haggis who has at least produced something with unprecedented hurdles while being in one of the most oppressive statist regions of this new age?
Quoted from mbwalker:But the one thing I'm curious about tho is...if DR paid Tuyo for RAZA code (i.e. IP), why would Tuyo come in can grab the servers like some people are speculating? And come to think of it, why bother to grab the servers (if they did), surely they already have the source code for DR support, if nothing else. But in the end, if DR paid for it...it's DR's, not Tuyo's.
And why doesn't it show up somewhere in the court docs?
Just odd...
I thought the same thing. Software owned by DR. A Question I’ll be asking Greg manana.
Quoted from daudioguy:My opinion about Deeproot Pinball is not subject to NDA in the abstract. From what little I know I believe that the endeavor was sincere and pursued with vigor. The lack of domain experience in those in charge was catastrophic. The experienced employees and contractors were not in charge.
We see the machinery, parts, tools etc. Clearly the potential was there with the “experienced employees and contractors”.
We see small town, low budget Spooky cranking out games non stop. They are on game # 5 or 6?
Still hard to believe you can be as incompetent, stupid and ignorant as Mueller was. All that $$$, talent, equipment and time and not one game out the door. FFS
When the NDAs are up I’m sure we will hear the details and excuses
Even Haggis is delivering Celts with his little crew and Fathom next. 
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I will be at Pintastic Show in June to promote EZ Pinball & their cabinets in my booth space.
Quoted from iceman44:We see the machinery, parts, tools etc. Clearly the potential was there with the “experienced employees and contractors”.
We see small town, low budget Spooky cranking out games non stop. They are on game # 5 or 6?
Still hard to believe you can be as incompetent, stupid and ignorant as Mueller was. All that $$$, talent, equipment and time and not one game out the door. FFS
When the NDAs are up I’m sure we will hear the details and excuses
Even Haggis is delivering Celts with his little crew and Fathom next.
Robert spent his money on names and flashy stuff because he thinks that's all it takes to become a manufacturing kingpin. He is a money guy, not a hands-on guy. Spooky are hands-on people who only spent their finite sums of money on things that mattered. They didn't rent some building for $30k a month...they put a cheap pole barn up and got a game done. Then built another game, and eventually another pole barn. Rinse, repeat.
Quoted from Mr68:[quoted image]
Thanks Kim I will try & stay dry. Had enough maintaining water quality for over 30 years. Getting back to Deeproot that was thinking of trying to get me to move to Texas in the early days for employment. I was waiting for free surgery in Canada for my right foot, & waiting on right hip surgery when I can no longer move. My health has improved from retiring with a pension the last 17 months, selling my parts business & making everyone whole, & lastly going through personal bankruptcy.
The last year of Deeproot I still thought even myself with a small team, or a small contractor could of manufactured around 100+ games. If everything was ready to go, & not the shell game that we now know was going ON. There was lots of talent employed there, but very bad or poor boss & management.
Quoted from mbwalker:But the one thing I'm curious about tho is...if DR paid Tuyo for RAZA code (i.e. IP), why would Tuyo come in can grab the servers like some people are speculating? And come to think of it, why bother to grab the servers (if they did), surely they already have the source code for DR support, if nothing else. But in the end, if DR paid for it...it's DR's, not Tuyo's.
And why doesn't it show up somewhere in the court docs?
Just odd...
So nobody else would get the code.
Maybe Jpop & other employees have stuff. You do not see any of them with NDA saying much until the dust settles.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Thanks Kim I will try & stay dry. Had enough maintaining water quality for over 30 years. Getting back to Deeproot that was thinking of trying to get me to move to Texas in the early days for employment. I was waiting for free surgery in Canada for my right foot, & waiting on right hip surgery when I can no longer move. My health has improved from retiring with a pension the last 17 months, selling my parts business & making everyone whole, & lastly going through personal bankruptcy.
The last year of Deeproot I still thought even myself with a small team, or a small contractor could of manufactured around 100+ games. If everything was ready to go, & not the shell game that we now know was going ON. There was lots of talent employed there, but very bad or poor boss & management.
So, what do You have to say to the many people that lost money to jpop, prior to deeproot?
The many people that were on the hook for 1 or more games, the many people that sold him parts, created art. That have never been paid.
What would you say to them as you continue to come here and cheerlead for any schmuck with money to hire jpop to design a game.
What say you? Greatwich John.
Quoted from mrgone:So, what do You have to say to the many people that lost money to jpop, prior to deeproot?
The many people that were on the hook for 1 or more games, the many people that sold him parts, created art. That have never been paid.
What would you say to them as you continue to come here and cheerlead for any schmuck with money to hire jpop to design a game.
What say you? Greatwich John.
What I said many years ago was you should make sure you treat your parts suppliers & vendors fairly & pay them what is owed (Jpop Fiasco pre Deeproot, & Deeproot). Same with getting product that was paid by faithful customers. There are people that know I was trying to possibly help make people whole with a pinball game. But Jpop was a mess, & nothing really worked well at that time. Now Jpop has moved on, & will likely continue on with someone or group with money. It is just like any hobby out there, if you have money you can get custom stuff built if they are not a thief or fraud!
Quoted from benheck:So nobody else would get the code.
Good point, makes sense. Even if they don't own it, keeps it from getting released into the wild.
Quoted from JodyG:They didn't rent some building for $30k a month...they put a cheap pole barn up and got a game done. Then built another game, and eventually another pole barn. Rinse, repeat.
Well…free rent helps
Quoted from greatwichjohn:get custom stuff built if they are not a thief or fraud!
So, Jpop is out then.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Now Jpop has moved on, & will likely continue on with someone or group with money. It is just like any hobby out there, if you have money you can get custom stuff built if they are not a thief or fraud!
Jpop IS a thief and a fraud. He offers zero value to anyone trying to get into pinball manufacturing. Negative value, actually. He’s proven to be useless & reviled.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Likely a number of players are looking at something, nothing, or go their own route.
Greatwichjohn over here betting on black, red, AND green.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Sorry I am not taking a dump on the fanboys lovefest of Fathom 2.0 Just saying another finished example like #2, Rick has likely #1 to approve. How many more new Fathom builds are there Damian? Not showing of any quantity of cabinets, finished playfields, parts, employees working. Guess we got the maybe they have caught up on any Celts builds & demand purchases past the deposits for Fathom. Wish them the best, but maybe hire a PR Person or be more honest about production problems.
As for anything to come from the auction or manufacturing post Deeproot fiasco stay tuned. Likely a number of players are looking at something, nothing, or go their own route. Even Jpop will likely find another home in the pinball world.
You must have an ax to grind, this outlook is 180 degrees about how you felt about DR and how it could still be done.
Quoted from Rarehero:Jpop IS a thief and a fraud. He offers zero value to anyone trying to get into pinball manufacturing. Negative value, actually. He’s proven to be useless & reviled.
But if only someone would manage him....
Seeing those auction listings reminded me of this old Onion article. Why start with crawling, then walking, when you can run right out of the gate!
Quoted from Roostking:You must have an ax to grind, this outlook is 180 degrees about how you felt about DR and how it could still be done.
My outlook has not changed over the years towards any one building games or false promises. I said even a moron, or a group could likely build anything at Deeproot. But if nothing moves ahead because of the owner & management being totally incompetent or fraudulent. Then all you get is a few pinball builds over the years (Raza 2-5). I said before the end contractors could of built them if everything was ready, & they got paid. Do not think people know the true story with Dutch Pinball, & their contract build years later. Could go on the same about other failed pinball machine manufacturers, & those still here.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:No I cannot at this time come out & name the different parties. Along with trying to stay out of non USA players, that are in the arena of pinball manufacturing or should be in the near future. Contrary to the non believers there are multiple groups that I continue to talk pinball production with. Haggis & a few other known groups I do not have talks with at this time.
Like I have said if other parties win something at auction, I will try to help out to finish if possible. It is a long shot but there is still hope. Worse case is you retheme & rework what you get. I will be at Pintastic Show in June to promote EZ Pinball & their cabinets in my booth space. I may get a spot to speak if there is a no show. If not I will be there to talk with people about pinball topics.
Upvoted cause this guy can make a great word salad. I salute you, SirGreatSammich
Quoted from greatwichjohn:My outlook has not changed over the years towards any one building games or false promises. I said even a moron, or a group could likely build anything at Deeproot. But if nothing moves ahead because of the owner & management being totally incompetent or fraudulent. Then all you get is a few pinball builds over the years (Raza 2-5). I said before the end contractors could of built them if everything was ready, & they got paid. Do not think people know the true story with Dutch Pinball, & their contract build years later. Could go on the same about other failed pinball machine manufacturers, & those still here.
You are Cookoo man. DR is dead. DEAD and being sold for pennies on the dollar..
Quoted from JodyG:Robert spent his money on names and flashy stuff because he thinks that's all it takes to become a manufacturing kingpin. He is a money guy, not a hands-on guy.
Correction: Robert is an “other people’s money” guy.
Quoted from Richthofen:Correction: Robert is an “other people’s money” guy.
Robert is the lowest of scum.
Quoted from Roostking:Robert is the lowest of scum.
And yet, he maybe does a year or two at a minimum security prison then collects all his accoutrements when he gets out.
Quoted from vicjw66:And yet, he maybe does a year or two at a minimum security prison then collects all his accoutrements when he gets out.
A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit a crime. In order to charge someone with conspiracy, the suspects must have completed at least one action towards accomplishing the goals of the agreement. The most common federal conspiracy charges involve drug trafficking and various forms of fraud.
If more than one person is suspected of a crime, a conspiracy charge can be a way to turn them against each other and provide the evidence necessary for a conviction.
This was taken directly off a federal criminal attorneys website. It's an easy charge to convict in a federal court for a US attorney. It's hard for me to believe a US attorney would allow any of these shenanigans to go unchecked. It's easy for me to believe these future defendants to be prosecuted. The feds take way, way longer than other jurisdictions. But are usually way, way more prepared and carry a 99% conviction rate because of their preparation and the laws are designed to be more easily prosecuted in contrast to state law.
If he somehow gets a sweetheart deal, it won't be under the federal sentencing guidelines. It will only be because he cooperated and received a 5 k-1 cooperation deal.
Quoted from LORDDREK:while being in one of the most oppressive statist regions of this new age?
Dafuq?
Quoted from ForceFlow:Tuyo has paid $28k in premiums so far to make sure the insurance policies don't lapse. The judge noted that this was done without any court order protections, which he seemed to be impressed by.
He might have been impressed. Or realized this could be prosecuted as a conspiracy as this would be the overt act needed to start the conspiracy. I met many lawyers and a couple former judges while in federal prison for pot. I laughed a few times as they claimed they didn't understand they broke federal law the way they did. I believed them when they clarified it that they would have committed the crime differently (better) as to avoid getting caught the way they did. Most everyone who has been convicted of a conspiracy charge will tell you they didn't know the law is designed the way it is. I was convicted of conspiracy because I passed along a message (overt act) 2 months After some pot had been busted. It literally takes a federal criminal attorney to sit down an intelligent person and break down how the smallest of acts such as passing along a message puts you in the same boat with the same consequences as the biggest players in the conspiracy. Once its fully explained to the future defendant, the feds have to tell most of these guys to slow down, their talking too fast. They had no idea they are now facing 10 years.
Given the quality of the deeproot websites - I’m not pinning Turner as the sharpest tool in the drawer. Savvy enough to pull something off like this out of thin air…
Quoted from flynnibus:Given the quality of the deeproot websites - I’m not pinning Turner as the sharpest tool in the drawer. Savvy enough to pull something off like this out of thin air…
I miss the deeproot community website where you could do things like search for "@" to find all the user email addresses, or how you could go look at user accounts and see how much store credit they had.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Tuyo has paid $28k in premiums so far to make sure the insurance policies don't lapse. The judge noted that this was done without any court order protections, which he seemed to be impressed by.
I think a couple people have raised this particular question but I don't know if we've seen an answer yet.. how would TuYo have even had the knowledge of what policies needed these payments, if not for *drumroll* insider information?
I guess a logical explanation would be that the trustee does have this information, but I haven't seen/read/heard any indication that the trustee has been acting as the policy steward. If the trustee does have the info, would he be the one to accept/decline earnest money (unprotected) from TuYo to cover the premiums during the DR bankruptcy process? Is this perhaps why TuYo is the favored stalking horse bidder, their willingness to front money to cover the premiums and prevent policies from lapsing?
It would make sense for the Trustee to agree to this as it preservers the value of the remaining assets, but obviously Turner's (alleged) prior involvement directly with the policies makes it very questionable.
General question: is TuYo's behavior here "normal" for bankruptcies of investment firms that deal in life policies? That is, do speculators often swoop in to secure bulk life policies like this?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:.. you should make sure you treat your parts suppliers & vendors fairly & pay them what is owed (Jpop Fiasco pre Deeproot, & Deeproot). Same with getting product that was paid by faithful customers. There are people that know I was trying to possibly help make people whole with a pinball game.
Ummm... aren't you the one who mentioned 49 times you declared bankruptcy? That is what one does to NOT have to pay people.
Was deeproot offering you a job in the finance dept.?
Quoted from Roostking:Upvoted cause this guy can make a great word salad. I salute you, SirGreatSammich
It's either a language barrier or the case of beer he says he drinks daily
Interesting conspiracy theories abound regarding backdoor Turner Logic / deeproot arrangements! I hope those who should, have the intention of turning over enough stones to determine if any are actually conspiracy realities.
Just got a Pacer notification regarding an upcoming hearing in the bankruptcy case. This one was not tied to a document so I'm not 100% if this is what it's referencing. If it is, looks like the next gong show will be April 11.
Quoted from Beechwood:Ummm... aren't you the one who mentioned 49 times you declared bankruptcy? That is what one does to NOT have to pay people.
Was deeproot offering you a job in the finance dept.?
Maybe you missed the info that all my pinball business customers & vendors got fully paid. Sold of my parts business to pay it off. The last 17 months my pension that I get is around $23k US, to support my wife & myself. My personal bankruptcy was from 30% credit card interest, on about $30k US. I could not even maintain the minimum balance after I retired. That is why I am broke, & have ZERO assets. Not here to give financial advice to people who clearly are living a standard of living many times myself. Worked 6 days a week for almost 25 years, & never saw a cost of living year with inflation from my cheap City employer. Now living close to the poverty level, but still get to play pinball, & still with the same wife after 33 years. Also still drink lots of beer & safely ride on the bus since I had to give up driving my own car. That was like the last 6 years of toil & money sunk into pinball parts production.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Interesting conspiracy theories abound regarding backdoor Turner Logic / deeproot arrangements! I hope those who should, have the intention of turning over enough stones to determine if any are actually conspiracy realities.
Just got a Pacer notification regarding an upcoming hearing in the bankruptcy case. This one was not tied to a document so I'm not 100% if this is what it's referencing. If it is, looks like the next gong show will be April 11.
[quoted image]
Only gave it a quick skim, but it would appear the judge granted TuYo pretty much everything they wanted.
There's worthwhile stuff in here to pull out including info on the next hearing and an April 4 deadline for anyone interested in filing an objection to the judge's approval. I can't dig into now. Sharing now in case others can.
deeprootcapital-85-2022.03.22.pdfQuoted from blueberryjohnson:Only gave it a quick skim, but it would appear the judge granted TuYo pretty much everything they wanted.
There's worthwhile stuff in here to pull out including info on the next hearing and an April 4 deadline for anyone interested in filing an objection to the judge's approval. I can't dig into now. Sharing now in case others can.[quoted image]
These jumped out at me:
1) Objections
2) Where to send questions about the sale (perhaps a good resource for those of us non-legal folks with an interest in this stuff)
3) in Force policies listed
4) lapsed policies listed
3 and 4 seem to confirm the trustee already had knowledge of the policies whether TuYo did or not. Maybe the trustee would have been willing to share the deets with anyone who expressed a buying interest, pursuant to a sale.
This might squash our theories on Turner acting on some kind of insider information here, though I guess it doesn’t rule out Turner having additional information on the identities or mortality of any of the insured (from his alleged days as a DBA for Robert’s custom policy “services” database).
DAD1E2C6-506A-4640-8649-9604F450CAE2 (resized).jpeg20D40D62-E2FA-40A1-A847-3A7AA6170CDE (resized).jpegACF3DB78-4F5E-45AA-A7F3-4DBCF76EAA88 (resized).jpeg9C72CD18-F604-4DB2-B221-18BF9D1F452D (resized).jpeg
Did some more Jeeves Asking, thought this was interesting but I won’t pretend to have fully understood it. The highlighted sections seemed particularly noteworthy. Obviously not a lawyer, so maybe none of this applies. Regardless:
40B9BDE6-505E-4CD7-88A4-077289BD2C78 (resized).jpeg529A0BA1-D2B8-4246-B357-D0704CE982F8 (resized).jpegDid anyone noticed the Magic Girl playfields in one of the lots? Jpop was NOT gonna let that thing die.
Wow.
By the way, if someone gets that massive pile of pre-cut RAZA playfields, I’ll buy one. I would make a good decoration for the shitter. 
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:Did anyone noticed the Magic Girl playfields in one of the lots? Jpop was NOT gonna let that thing die.
Wow.
Don't forget, Robert told us all he knew how to manage Jpop for success.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:Did anyone noticed the Magic Girl playfields in one of the lots? Jpop was NOT gonna let that thing die.
Wow.
By the way, if someone gets that massive pile of pre-cut RAZA playfields, I’ll buy one. I would make a good decoration for the shitter.
This may be in terrible taste but I'll say it anyways.
Why not bring the arcade to the shitter? With the new Raza Playfield shitter accessory, take a shit on the playfield and see which precut hole the shit slides into. Users can customize their precut playfield by adding points labels for each hole. Can your shit make it all the way to the end for the "Mueller Bonus". Pop a JPOP and watch it slide down for the most fun anyone's ever had with a RAZA.
I'll be in my corner and go back to being a good pinsider now.
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