(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

4 years ago


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#15551 1 year ago
Quoted from Scandell:

Nothing else to say. Just waiting for manufacturing to get started. Push the go button on the conveyor belt!

They did say in December that it would start in January- didn’t they? Just checking.. January seems to be almost over

#15552 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

They did say in December that it would start in January- didn’t they? Just checking.. January seems to be almost over

The button is jammed. Or not plugged in.

#15553 1 year ago
Quoted from Scandell:

The button is jammed. Or not plugged in.

I’m not sure it’s even designed yet, I think it needed to still be innovated some more?

13
#15554 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

They did say in December that it would start in January- didn’t they? Just checking.. January seems to be almost over

They didn't say which year.

#15555 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

I’m not sure it’s even designed yet, I think it needed to still be innovated some more?

The problem with the pinball industry is that everyone is completely complacent with standard button technology. This industry will die unless people wake up and rethink their relationship with buttons. The future is now and it’s buttonless.

#15556 1 year ago

Any guesses as to how many RAZA games are on order? The screen shot of the poll from the Pre-Order thread isn't reflective of the real total, IMO but its a starting point. That shows 43 games in all and that includes Goodwill people.

The best comparable historical evidence IMO would be Full Throttle and Heighway sold 75 of those. (Unlicensed, first game from a first time manufacture).

My guess is around 100 games and that's for both the Standard and the Xtra combined.

RAZA Order total (resized).png
#15557 1 year ago

It'll be much more than 100 combined. I know of 5 for the UK - wouldn't expect any of them to have voted on here.

#15558 1 year ago

My buddy purchased one who's not on Pinside. So who really knows

-1
#15559 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Any guesses as to how many RAZA games are on order? The screen shot of the poll from the Pre-Order thread isn't reflective of the real total, IMO but its a starting point. That shows 43 games in all and that includes Goodwill people.
The best comparable historical evidence IMO would be Full Throttle and Heighway sold 75 of those. (Unlicensed, first game from a first time manufacture).
My guess is around 100 games and that's for both the Standard and the Xtra combined.
[quoted image]

Because all sales must be recorded on Pinside? Ok

21
#15560 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Because all sales must be recorded on Pinside? Ok

I never said that nor did I even imply it. My question is a legitimate one and I didn't intend anything negative by it. - Did you even read my comment?
Read it again:

Quoted from Mr68:

The screen shot of the poll from the Pre-Order thread isn't reflective of the real total, IMO but its a starting point.

If you're going to be this hyper sensitive I suggest you not read here and confine yourself to the RAZA bubble thread.

#15561 1 year ago

The game wasn't promoted much outside of "hardcore pinhead" circles, with a very limited sales window, so I'd say the Pinside numbers are closer to reality than a normal pinball release. 1/2 of all sales? Maybe.

#15562 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

The game wasn't promoted much outside of "hardcore pinhead" circles, with a very limited sales window, so I'd say the Pinside numbers are closer to reality than a normal pinball release. 1/2 of all sales? Maybe.

Didn't the folks in the order thread report the order numbers? I think they were over 200 there?

#15563 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Because all sales must be recorded on Pinside? Ok

So 2× that #. Fail. X3, fail. X10, fail. We are talking 10s of millions of $$$'s. Fail.

#15564 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Didn't the folks in the order thread report the order numbers? I think they were over 200 there?

Order numbers are meaningless in this regard. See the FAQ in the other thread.

RAZA order # (resized).png
#15565 1 year ago

So did all the RAZA Goodwill customers stay in for a machine or did anyone go for the refund this time around? Just wondering if anyone actually received a refund yet from this latest go around??

#15566 1 year ago
Quoted from PoppyCock:

So did all the RAZA Goodwill customers stay in for a machine or did anyone go for the refund this time around?

What fun would that be?

#15567 1 year ago

It’s a good topic. How many orders did they really get and why the sudden price increase afterward.

If they did not get at least 100, I’d venture to say they would count their loses and abandon before more money is lost. My guess is mid 100’s and they make 200.

#15568 1 year ago

If deeproot considers RAZA to be a collectible, it seems like they should state how many are actually built.

They don’t have to, but it’d be nice for the customers that bought in as this being a highly limited release. It’s certainly marketed as being highly limited.

And hey, sell people number plaques as an add on.

#15569 1 year ago

Per the FAQ on Deeproot's web site, they will release that information this month.

> How many units have sold?
> We will release order and production information for archival purposes in late January.

(OK, I guess they don't specifically mention a year...)

#15570 1 year ago

I think they will round up and make a total of 500 mixture of Arcade/Xtra editions of RAZA pins.

#15571 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I think they will round up and make a total of 500 mixture of Arcade/Xtra editions of RAZA pins.

You sound like a half glass full kind of person. I'd say that's pretty damn optimistic myself. So between us maybe they land at 200ish.

Quoted from hank527:

If they did not get at least 100, I’d venture to say they would count their loses and abandon before more money is lost. My guess is mid 100’s and they make 200.

They won't abandon it just cause of low #'s -- they have all the goodwill orders to fulfill, and it's already essentially a massive massive loss right now as it stands given the development time and $$.. why stop now over another $500k or $1mil loss? You'd be writing the company off.

#15572 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

You sound like a half glass full kind of person. I'd say that's pretty damn optimistic myself. So between us maybe they land at 200ish.

I'm half glass kinda of person saying 500 will be built? You must be using that new math to come up with 200.

#15573 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I think they will round up and make a total of 500 mixture of Arcade/Xtra editions of RAZA pins.

Lol not a chance.

#15574 1 year ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

Lol not a chance.

Somewhere deeproot stated no more than 300 Xtra edition will be built. I bet that full amount will get made.

#15575 1 year ago

So let's say they build 500, and let's assume they average a profit $2k each (I doubt it's that high by the time you pay labor but let's be nice). So that's a million dollars.

"Good news investors, I got 1/30th of your investment back after 4 years (because pinball is easy).. I swear the next pinball is gonna make up for the other 29 million.. except I'm gonna need like another 2 million to develop the next title."

#15576 1 year ago

RAZA’s will begin leaving the factory as soon as tomorrow people!!!!! RM said 4-6 weeks from end of order (during pinball news interview) - so excited!

#15577 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

So let's say they build 500, and let's assume they average a profit $2k each (I doubt it's that high by the time you pay labor but let's be nice). So that's a million dollars.
"Good news investors, I got 1/30th of your investment back after 4 years (because pinball is easy).. I swear the next pinball is gonna make up for the other 29 million.. except I'm gonna need like another 2 million to develop the next title."

Looking at their bill of materials I fail to see how they will hit 2k a unit. Maybe on the higher end trim levels.

#15578 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

RAZA’s will begin leaving the factory as soon as tomorrow people!!!!! RM said 4-6 weeks from end of order (during pinball news interview) - so excited!

Link to interview please

#15579 1 year ago
Quoted from TaTa:

Link to interview please

I am sure it is something like RM said 6 weeks ago when he was asking for money games would be shipping now. No way that could end up being optimistic right?

I mean really...

#15581 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

RAZA’s will begin leaving the factory as soon as tomorrow people!!!!! RM said 4-6 weeks from end of order (during pinball news interview) - so excited!

That still sounds only like an estimate. In the other thread someone mentioned preorder people will be updated early next week.

#15582 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

That still sounds only like an estimate. In the other thread someone mentioned preorder people will be updated early next week.

Also aren't you supposed to get a call right before your order is built to confirm everything?

I'm waiting for Yelobird to say he got his call. Didn't you place two orders in full? Seems like you should be at, or very near, the top of the build order list.

He can be the canary in the coal mine (ironic considering his name)

#15583 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Also aren't you supposed to get a call right before your order is built to confirm everything?
I'm waiting for Yelobird to say he got his call. Didn't you place two orders in full? Seems like you should be at, or very near, the top of the build order list.
He can be the canary in the coal mine (ironic considering his name)

Actually as noted on the order sheet the Delayed parts are the Toppers for the Xtra versions so I wasn't expecting to be first ship so I may not be your canary. I managed my expectations for late Feb March as realistic but no worries. He did say they would update next week on orders not an in route call so there will still be a confirmation or config.

#15584 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Actually as noted on the order sheet the Delayed parts are the Toppers for the Xtra versions so I wasn't expecting to be first ship so I may not be your canary. I managed my expectations for late Feb March as realistic but no worries. He did say they would update next week on orders not an in route call so there will still be a confirmation or config.

Thanks for sharing. Hope you get everything by March

#15585 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Also aren't you supposed to get a call right before your order is built to confirm everything?

2 weeks ahead of time was mentioned. Seems that be when the game is about the hit the production line. I ordered the night before the order date ended and only put a deposit down, so my wait will be longer.

14
#15586 1 year ago

So something I learned from my experience with Heighway and Full Throttle, is that a pinball machine can only ship when 100% of the parts are installed.

If a part comes in from a manufacturer below spec, all of a sudden there is a delay of months to get that single part redone and not a single game can ship.

But of course "this time it's different".

11
#15587 1 year ago

Just adding this in from the pre-order club thread.

===============================

Dear RAZA Customer:

First, thank you for your business and decision to buy in to an amazing machine we spent years designing to bring out the best of Popadiuk’s original theme and layout. As I am writing this email, I am aware of the weight of accountability in fulfilling orders of quality machines as soon as possible. I am providing the below update as a matter of goodwill and transparency, knowing that it will be unfortunately posted online or misreported by podcasts (plural), twisted in ways where truth, civility, and rationality go to die.

ORDERS
We received orders (paid or goodwill) for ~70 Arcade Editions of RAZA, and ~60 Xtra Editions of RAZA. We will round up to 160 total RAZA Games with most of the remaining games available for sale at $8,000USD starting price for the Arcade Edition, and $13,000USD flat fee for the Xtra Edition. More details on timing of that later. After all RAZA games have sold we will publish (for historical purposes - IPDB), the exact game counts.

UL/CE
We were not able to get our machines scheduled into the labs for UL testing or International/CE testing until two weeks ago. So far I understand that most tests have been passed. I understand it can take up to 5 weeks to complete testing and receiving reports and certification. We will not be able to release/ship any games until those are complete.

PARTS
With most vendors going dark for the last two weeks of December and first week of January, we have orders in for about 70% of the BOM. There are three main hiccups:
• Long lead times in general and vendors promising one thing before they get their money, than quickly changing their tune after getting their money is the most prevalent reason for the delayed orders and parts. There have been some great vendors who are exceeding expectations; and we sincerely appreciate their efforts.
• The lockbar we designed as more ergonomically usable is complex with two stamps and several welded reinforcements. The complexity of the design has caused a large number of vendors to pass on it with the cost and time frame we needed it. We finally have two vendors that are willing to do small runs. The problem is getting them into their already full production schedule to arrive asap.
• The lighted side panel prototypes we had for our 2 Xtra editions had some wear/tear and technical issues with frayed wires and sizing. It has taken the last 60+ days working with several vendors to redesign them to be more durable and allow spacing for leg protectors or cup holders, etc.

PRODUCTION
We have the first lines ready to go and will proceed in prepping what we can while waiting on parts and certification. Since there are tiered production stations the ones that can produce deliverables will start in the next few weeks. I made the decision not to show production lines or illusory and deceptive pictures of parts or lines or cabinets for many obvious reasons. The only thing that matters is you getting your brand new RAZA on your doorstep in working condition as soon as possible. That is a picture that will actually mean something. We fully look forward to seeing your delivery pics and unboxing videos posted or tagged to one or more of our social media pages.

ADDITIONAL STREAMS
We have received lots of requests for additional video coverage or streaming. We finally got all the cameras for our internal rig. But (and being completely honest) I have requested that they be delayed for now. Our creative team is working hard on other projects and deadlines. I feel that since orders are over, adding additional content in the short term is moot.

EXPECTATIONS
Disappointing news may still have a bright side. We expect to receive parts through the first week of March at this point with the first RAZAs leaving mid-March. The certifications for UL/CE should also be done around the time. While that may sound disappointing to wait another couple of weeks for games, there is a bright side. Since the run of RAZA machines is limited, we should be done much quicker than our anticipated and originally announced time of 3.5-4 months.

We have had some of you contact us about jumping the line. It doesn’t make any sense at this point. You and other customers will be playing RAZA sooner than you think.

NEXT COMMUNICATION
I plan to update customers again by the end of February. Thank you again for your trust and business. Thank you for your patience. We look forward to exceeding expectations and we are grateful for you allowing us a chance to do so. If you have any questions, please contact us at [email protected] or by visiting the website. Best! -Robert J. Mueller

15
#15588 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Just adding this in from the pre-order club thread.
===============================
Dear RAZA Customer:
First, thank you for your business and decision to buy in to an amazing machine we spent years designing to bring out the best of Popadiuk’s original theme and layout. As I am writing this email, I am aware of the weight of accountability in fulfilling orders of quality machines as soon as possible. I am providing the below update as a matter of goodwill and transparency, knowing that it will be unfortunately posted online or misreported by podcasts (plural), twisted in ways where truth, civility, and rationality go to die.
ORDERS
We received orders (paid or goodwill) for ~70 Arcade Editions of RAZA, and ~60 Xtra Editions of RAZA. We will round up to 160 total RAZA Games with most of the remaining games available for sale at $8,000USD starting price for the Arcade Edition, and $13,000USD flat fee for the Xtra Edition. More details on timing of that later. After all RAZA games have sold we will publish (for historical purposes - IPDB), the exact game counts.
UL/CE
We were not able to get our machines scheduled into the labs for UL testing or International/CE testing until two weeks ago. So far I understand that most tests have been passed. I understand it can take up to 5 weeks to complete testing and receiving reports and certification. We will not be able to release/ship any games until those are complete.
PARTS
With most vendors going dark for the last two weeks of December and first week of January, we have orders in for about 70% of the BOM. There are three main hiccups:
• Long lead times in general and vendors promising one thing before they get their money, than quickly changing their tune after getting their money is the most prevalent reason for the delayed orders and parts. There have been some great vendors who are exceeding expectations; and we sincerely appreciate their efforts.
• The lockbar we designed as more ergonomically usable is complex with two stamps and several welded reinforcements. The complexity of the design has caused a large number of vendors to pass on it with the cost and time frame we needed it. We finally have two vendors that are willing to do small runs. The problem is getting them into their already full production schedule to arrive asap.
• The lighted side panel prototypes we had for our 2 Xtra editions had some wear/tear and technical issues with frayed wires and sizing. It has taken the last 60+ days working with several vendors to redesign them to be more durable and allow spacing for leg protectors or cup holders, etc.
PRODUCTION
We have the first lines ready to go and will proceed in prepping what we can while waiting on parts and certification. Since there are tiered production stations the ones that can produce deliverables will start in the next few weeks. I made the decision not to show production lines or illusory and deceptive pictures of parts or lines or cabinets for many obvious reasons. The only thing that matters is you getting your brand new RAZA on your doorstep in working condition as soon as possible. That is a picture that will actually mean something. We fully look forward to seeing your delivery pics and unboxing videos posted or tagged to one or more of our social media pages.
ADDITIONAL STREAMS
We have received lots of requests for additional video coverage or streaming. We finally got all the cameras for our internal rig. But (and being completely honest) I have requested that they be delayed for now. Our creative team is working hard on other projects and deadlines. I feel that since orders are over, adding additional content in the short term is moot.
EXPECTATIONS
Disappointing news may still have a bright side. We expect to receive parts through the first week of March at this point with the first RAZAs leaving mid-March. The certifications for UL/CE should also be done around the time. While that may sound disappointing to wait another couple of weeks for games, there is a bright side. Since the run of RAZA machines is limited, we should be done much quicker than our anticipated and originally announced time of 3.5-4 months.
We have had some of you contact us about jumping the line. It doesn’t make any sense at this point. You and other customers will be playing RAZA sooner than you think.
NEXT COMMUNICATION
I plan to update customers again by the end of February. Thank you again for your trust and business. Thank you for your patience. We look forward to exceeding expectations and we are grateful for you allowing us a chance to do so. If you have any questions, please contact us at [email protected] or by visiting the website. Best! -Robert J. Mueller

Well I mean.. at least he's transparent.

UL: "most tests" doesn't count, it's all or nothing to pass. Let's hope he means all tests aren't completely done yet (not this didn't pass, we are fixing it and re-submitting) because if it's the latter you are waiting in line again for UL to schedule a new testing date (which could literally be months, especially with covid backing everything up right now).

Orders in for 70% BOM is not a good sign, that's a huge deficit. Even if orders were in today for 100% of the BOM you'd still probably have a 1-2 month lead-time for parts from vendors (longer if it's coming from china unless you plan to pay for air freight). I don't see how they think machines are going to start shipping Mid-March. Not like parts come in and you start building. ALL new parts need to go through a QC inspection of a sampling of at least 10 parts to see if on average parts come within the tolerances you speced out (especially with a new vendor that you don't have any feedback from yet). If they are deciding to skip this step, either they get REALLY lucky, or expect parts to be hand fitted.

#15589 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I'm half glass kinda of person saying 500 will be built? You must be using that new math to come up with 200.

No, not overly fuzzy.. I took your 500 against my haf empty glass of 100, and then I weighted my half empty glass a bit more based on everything that has gone down so far with DR with empty promises and blown timelines, mouthing off and then going back on what was said.. etc... and I landed at 200.
Based on what the update above, looks like this was not far off at all. 160..

Quoted from spinal:

RAZA’s will begin leaving the factory as soon as tomorrow people!!!!! RM said 4-6 weeks from end of order (during pinball news interview) - so excited!

I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcastic, poking fun at the OG proposed/promised timeline? Obviously nothing is shipping this month or next now.. I'm glad that some buyers have their head on their shoulders and were realistic about this. It was pretty blatantly obvious no January deadlines were going to happen, disregarding any of DR's history with timelines. At least things are moving along. March seems maybe?? achievable (not real likely) although if they are still waiting for manufacturers to get parts to them there is likely to be QC issues that come up.. which means further delays. I don't know why they decided December was the month to sell these out.. they could have waited until they had all parts in hand, QC'd, and certifications in place. That would have made more sense imo. Get things locked in a bit more before you promise any timelines of shipments. Plus they have to finish the builds and do testing once all the parts are in, certified, QC'd, and good to go. It's starting to sound more like May.

#15590 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Any guesses as to how many RAZA games are on order? The screen shot of the poll from the Pre-Order thread isn't reflective of the real total, IMO but its a starting point. That shows 43 games in all and that includes Goodwill people.

We received orders (paid or goodwill) for ~70 Arcade Editions of RAZA, and ~60 Xtra Editions of RAZA.

For reference then, 33% accounted for on Pinside.

16
#15591 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Just adding this in from the pre-order club thread.
===============================
Dear RAZA Customer:
First, thank you for your business and decision to buy in to an amazing machine we spent years designing to bring out the best of Popadiuk’s original theme and layout. As I am writing this email, I am aware of the weight of accountability in fulfilling orders of quality machines as soon as possible. I am providing the below update as a matter of goodwill and transparency, knowing that it will be unfortunately posted online or misreported by podcasts (plural), twisted in ways where truth, civility, and rationality go to die.
ORDERS
We received orders (paid or goodwill) for ~70 Arcade Editions of RAZA, and ~60 Xtra Editions of RAZA. We will round up to 160 total RAZA Games with most of the remaining games available for sale at $8,000USD starting price for the Arcade Edition, and $13,000USD flat fee for the Xtra Edition. More details on timing of that later. After all RAZA games have sold we will publish (for historical purposes - IPDB), the exact game counts.
UL/CE
We were not able to get our machines scheduled into the labs for UL testing or International/CE testing until two weeks ago. So far I understand that most tests have been passed. I understand it can take up to 5 weeks to complete testing and receiving reports and certification. We will not be able to release/ship any games until those are complete.
PARTS
With most vendors going dark for the last two weeks of December and first week of January, we have orders in for about 70% of the BOM. There are three main hiccups:
• Long lead times in general and vendors promising one thing before they get their money, than quickly changing their tune after getting their money is the most prevalent reason for the delayed orders and parts. There have been some great vendors who are exceeding expectations; and we sincerely appreciate their efforts.
• The lockbar we designed as more ergonomically usable is complex with two stamps and several welded reinforcements. The complexity of the design has caused a large number of vendors to pass on it with the cost and time frame we needed it. We finally have two vendors that are willing to do small runs. The problem is getting them into their already full production schedule to arrive asap.
• The lighted side panel prototypes we had for our 2 Xtra editions had some wear/tear and technical issues with frayed wires and sizing. It has taken the last 60+ days working with several vendors to redesign them to be more durable and allow spacing for leg protectors or cup holders, etc.
PRODUCTION
We have the first lines ready to go and will proceed in prepping what we can while waiting on parts and certification. Since there are tiered production stations the ones that can produce deliverables will start in the next few weeks. I made the decision not to show production lines or illusory and deceptive pictures of parts or lines or cabinets for many obvious reasons. The only thing that matters is you getting your brand new RAZA on your doorstep in working condition as soon as possible. That is a picture that will actually mean something. We fully look forward to seeing your delivery pics and unboxing videos posted or tagged to one or more of our social media pages.
ADDITIONAL STREAMS
We have received lots of requests for additional video coverage or streaming. We finally got all the cameras for our internal rig. But (and being completely honest) I have requested that they be delayed for now. Our creative team is working hard on other projects and deadlines. I feel that since orders are over, adding additional content in the short term is moot.
EXPECTATIONS
Disappointing news may still have a bright side. We expect to receive parts through the first week of March at this point with the first RAZAs leaving mid-March. The certifications for UL/CE should also be done around the time. While that may sound disappointing to wait another couple of weeks for games, there is a bright side. Since the run of RAZA machines is limited, we should be done much quicker than our anticipated and originally announced time of 3.5-4 months.
We have had some of you contact us about jumping the line. It doesn’t make any sense at this point. You and other customers will be playing RAZA sooner than you think.
NEXT COMMUNICATION
I plan to update customers again by the end of February. Thank you again for your trust and business. Thank you for your patience. We look forward to exceeding expectations and we are grateful for you allowing us a chance to do so. If you have any questions, please contact us at [email protected] or by visiting the website. Best! -Robert J. Mueller

Wow....so basically everything we said were red flags turned out to be true? More unrealistic promises that were pointed out to be unrealistic and we were right again. I'm so shocked .

Look, I hope everyone gets their games, and I think they will, just get ready for tons more delays.

24
#15592 1 year ago

130 orders were placed and my guess of 100 was considered a troll post. Go figure.

#15593 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

No, not overly fuzzy.. I took your 500 against my haf empty glass of 100, and then I weighted my half empty glass a bit more based on everything that has gone down so far with DR with empty promises and blown timelines, mouthing off and then going back on what was said.. etc... and I landed at 200.
Based on what the update above, looks like this was not far off at all. 160..

I rather it be a rare vs. a super rare game, which is why I was pulling for 500.

14
#15594 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Just adding this in from the pre-order club thread.
• Long lead times in general and vendors promising one thing before they get their money, than quickly changing their tune after getting their money is the most prevalent reason for the delayed orders and parts. There have been some great vendors who are exceeding expectations; and we sincerely appreciate their efforts.
• The lockbar we designed as more ergonomically usable is complex with two stamps and several welded reinforcements. The complexity of the design has caused a large number of vendors to pass on it with the cost and time frame we needed it. We finally have two vendors that are willing to do small runs. The problem is getting them into their already full production schedule to arrive asap.
• The lighted side panel prototypes we had for our 2 Xtra editions had some wear/tear and technical issues with frayed wires and sizing. It has taken the last 60+ days working with several vendors to redesign them to be more durable and allow spacing for leg protectors or cup holders, etc.

And now....let us raise a toast to the man who slagged off other pinball companies and said, "pffft....pinball is easy."

#15595 1 year ago

not just pinball. COVID Pinball.

#15596 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

not just pinball. COVID Pinball.

lets not stick words in his mouth now.. he DID only say pinball was easy. Covid pinball is hard, lol

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I rather it be a rare vs. a super rare game, which is why I was pulling for 500.

Fair enough. I wouldn't mind playing it one day, more is always better. almost always better I should say.. there are a few games that there are already too many of, like TB.

15
#15597 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

vendors promising one thing before they get their money, than quickly changing their tune after getting their money

Yeah, that's really upsetting. Any credible company would never, ever do anything of the sort. I mean, just imagine - taking advantage of consumer goodwill to accept untold hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then failing to deliver products on time. That would, hypothetically, be completely disgusting behavior. In theory.

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#15598 1 year ago
tenor-3 (resized).png
#15599 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

We received orders (paid or goodwill) for ~70 Arcade Editions of RAZA, and ~60 Xtra Editions of RAZA. We will round up to 160 total RAZA Games with most of the remaining games available for sale at $8,000USD starting price for the Arcade Edition, and $13,000USD flat fee for the Xtra Edition. More details on timing of that later. After all RAZA games have sold we will publish (for historical purposes - IPDB), the exact game counts.

So....what's with the pricing here? $8k for the Arcade Edition and $13k for the Xtra Edition?! I hope that's just you snooze, you lose pricing, and not indicative of DR's pricing model going forward.

Because, at this new pricing, the Arcade Ed. is $500 more than a Wonka standard, and I don't know that I see $500 additional value added here over a Wonka Std. Plus, that 8k doesn't seem to include any extras either since it says "starting price".

At $6k starting price I was very tempted, but at $8k...no way. If future titles stick with the $6k base price of the ordering window, then DR could compete very favorably with Stern, provide they actually had a desirable license with exciting gameplay and rules. This new pricing has them competing with JJP, and which would you rather have, a GNR CE for $12.5k or a RAZA Xtra for $13k? I mean that's no contest at all.

#15600 1 year ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

So....what's with the pricing here? $8k for the Arcade Edition and $13k for the Xtra Edition?! I hope that's just you snooze, you lose pricing, and not indicative of DR's pricing model going forward.
Because, at this new pricing, the Arcade Ed. is $500 more than a Wonka standard, and I don't know that I see $500 additional value added here over a Wonka Std. Plus, that 8k doesn't seem to include any extras either since it says "starting price".
At $6k starting price I was very tempted, but at $8k...no way. If future titles stick with the $6k base price of the ordering window, then DR could compete very favorably with Stern, provide they actually had a desirable license with exciting gameplay and rules. This new pricing has them competing with JJP, and which would you rather have, a GNR CE for $12.5k or a RAZA Xtra for $13k? I mean that's no contest at all.

I wouldn't know... I bought both with equal enthusiasm

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