Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from Shapeshifter:While we are in analysis mode, interested to know your thoughts as to how you rate JP a 1/10?
I just don't get it!
Ghostbusters is a zero. I noted that as you can’t put zeros. With that said, JP at 1 is saying its better than Ghostbusters
This means I’ll play JP, not Ghostbusters.
Get it?
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Ghostbusters is a zero. I noted that as you can’t put zeros. With that said, JP at 1 is saying its better than Ghostbusters
This means I’ll play JP, not Ghostbusters.
Get it?
Both still the same cost cut shi+ build quality/materials. Pity coz Elwins game looks pretty good. Not good enough to pay that much for soft wood, flaky clearcoat, craters and crap flimsy fittings though. Maybe used, in a few years, if any are around that arent a thrashed out pile of bare wood and splinters. Stern are now undeniably a major "lightweight" manufacturer.
Some praise them. Each to their own. I give them some credit. But they are definately building junk quality compared to everyone else. At prices way above what they are worth.
*Sorry that might not be fair... Doesn't GB still have a propper lockdown reciever and coffin lock?? ... makes it one step better machine than JP.
Quoted from razorsedge:Looks more like stern will be the First to go under with their super low budget, cardboard quality builds, and rediculously inflated prices, from what I have experienced. If stern really have no margin on pro's then they are very bad at running a cost effective manufacturing bussiness. But, I think they probably do manufacture cost effectively. In my opinion it is more likely they just claim there is no profit margin on pros, because obviously it would be a super bad look if everyone knew just how much they are getting fleeced and ripped off. Keep taking more and more out, as material and build quality continues to plumet. While the price blows out more and more to provide ever increasing profit margins for wealthy greedy investors. Gotta love capitalism, I suppose.
In my opinion Stern is on the way out mate, they are complacent... I am not the only one whom will never buy another NIB stern. There are more and more of us with every passing day. If Deeproot is even half successful, that will only be an increasing trend.
Agreed!
If there is one reason why Stern's profit margin is as low as Gary says it's because they License EVERY pin they produce, when you have to pay a 3rd party to use their IP, your already losing profit, and quality/coding/extras all suffer
If DR can create original themes and control production costs then they have won half the battle already...
Quoted from dc2010:Agreed!
If there is one reason why Stern's profit margin is as low as Gary says it's because they License EVERY pin they produce, when you have to pay a 3rd party to use their IP, your already losing profit, and quality/coding/extras all suffer
If DR can create original themes and control production costs then they have won half the battle already...
I think you'd find their profit margins are not low, at all!!. Unless we deduct investor dividends as part of "costs", before calculating "profit". Lol
REGARDLESS of what the profit margins actually are, gaz is Always going to preach that profit margins are "as low as they can be!". It is the only posible PR answer for the question "How much do you profit?". Are you getting value? ... "Of course you are!!, the profit margins on those games are virtually non existent!!" ... It has no basis in reality for the public, of whatever the margin actually is. It is just the neccesary "line".
There is no way they do not have a "good profit margin" on pro's. If they don't then they are Very inefficient at making pinball games, and doing something or another Very wrong... even if it is just due to the licencing fettish.
Quoted from kvan99:I’ve never believed that 750k a month number, think about it an average professional employee makes about 5k to 6k a month in Texas add benefits and real estate r
The early photo DR posted of the design team showed about 20 people. salary is probably 4k a month average but factor in vacation/holiday/401k/health insurance it's probably 6k
6k x 20 designers = $120k
Factor in some of the team from the other division to work on art/code (assume a team of 6), add another $36k
Assume Robert's facility is 41k sq feet:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/12621-Silicon-Dr-San-Antonio-TX/6336044/
I don't know what commercial real estate is, but if you assume it's close to renting any property it should be about $1/sq foot
My electric/gas bill for my 1400 sq foot house is about $150 month, so multiply by 30x: $4500
salaries: $156k
rental: $44k
heat/power: $4500
Still haven't factored in various things to run a business like capital equipment (computers, software, network equipment, office furniture), production area (air lines, benches, power drivers, conveyors, parts bins, forklifts), any other equipment they decided to buy or lease (CNC, pcb pick and place machines, presses, injection molding, machine shop for fabrication, vacuum former, direct printing machine)
Maybe $750k/month is a bit of a stretch, but it's probably not that far off during the early phase (and I'm also guessing at numbers, they could be much higher)
Sounds an awful lot like there will not be any "cheap" deeproot games. Robert appears ready to use their "earth shattering" features to extract the highest price possible.
Quoted from toyotaboy:The early photo DR posted of the design team showed about 20 people. salary is probably 4k a month average but factor in vacation/holiday/401k/health insurance it's probably 6k
6k x 20 designers = $120k
Factor in some of the team from the other division to work on art/code (assume a team of 6), add another $36k
Assume Robert's facility is 41k sq feet:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/12621-Silicon-Dr-San-Antonio-TX/6336044/
I don't know what commercial real estate is, but if you assume it's close to renting any property it should be about $1/sq foot
My electric/gas bill for my 1400 sq foot house is about $150 month, so multiply by 30x: $4500
salaries: $156k
rental: $44k
heat/power: $4500
Still haven't factored in various things to run a business like capital equipment (computers, software, network equipment, office furniture), production area (air lines, benches, power drivers, conveyors, parts bins, forklifts), any other equipment they decided to buy or lease (CNC, pcb pick and place machines, presses, injection molding, machine shop for fabrication, vacuum former, direct printing machine)
Maybe $750k/month is a bit of a stretch, but it's probably not that far off during the early phase (and I'm also guessing at numbers, they could be much higher)
Way under on salary - I agree it is not $750k but it has a payroll way over $250k alone.
Payroll of $36k is $15-17 an hour - no professional works that cheap.
Doesn’t mean they exclusively work on pinball too so I think there costs are in line but I just had to comment on this estimate being so low.
Doesn’t matter anyway - businesses lose often for months of a year, or even years at a time and don’t go belly up. Not comparing this to other businesses is fair this is nothing compared an Uber or Lyft or Tesla but they have lost money and never made a profit and are still around.
Pinball is not a growing industry and would ever be like any real major business but many companies lose money for years and just approach it as some complimentary business or some thing that will eventually become profitable.
I love the way Robert has so many of you guys here freaking out, huff'n and puff'n, losing sleep at night, how dare he, he can't to that, who does he think he is? 
Go Robert GO! You have the Pinside know it alls up in arms! PITCHFORKS!
I doubt Robert even pays attention to this crazy place anymore but if he does he's laughing his ass off, laughing at you not with you! Some of you guys need more of a life outside of pinside.
This place has RDS, Robert Derangement Syndrome.
Considering RMs portfolio, it's like this is a "fun" business for him. I suspect, well, all of this expense up to March will be simply marked off as "establishment costs" or similar, draw a line under it, and go from there.
He certainly seems to be on a mission! ... I kinda recall part of it being about bringing pinball to a wider proportion of the population?... partly by price point?
Forget about the free play ... Will there be Free Pinball MACHINES being thrown about by RM in mini comps at TPF? 
Whatever happens, March is bound to be interesting!
Hmmm, I don't know what all the fuss is about really.
My opinion doesn't mean much, I have no influence or experience with designing or large scale manufacturing of pinball so please feel free to ignore my opinion.
DR talked a very big talk, change the way we think of pinball was the boast.
Make more machines than anyone else in 2019. Hey I get it, crap happens and delays ensue, but seriously why do the majority here think this was worth the wait or as remarkable as the boasts? It mainly consists of place holders for art and toys so is possibly far from what you may end up with.
Although H2H podcast seems to think it is the second coming as far as design and features.... is it really?
Looks o.k., we will know more when the final version ships and people get to flip it. I hope the expected/forthcoming innovation is more than recycled ideas from pinball's past.
I don't have an issue with using cool things we have seen before, but call it what it is, innovation?.... no.
I wish DR all the best and hope they do bring the WOW moment, they certainly have the talent to do so. Bring less false bravado and more tinkering, give us the promised WOW please.
Listening to Robert is like listening to Jersey Jack in the beginning. Jack knew it all, let his people do it all and in the end failed at the only real job he personally needed to execute.....lead the company. How humble Jack has become since those early days. Robert sounds like a rich, arrogant, corporate, know it all, who “pivots” his positioning rather than admit he failed. “We don’t understand the Deeproot vision”........What??? We are the customer, if we don’t understand your vision, you got a serious problem. His first mistake was to higher a proven failure.....JPOP. This hobby needs new blood to move forward, not old blood. This couldn’t be clearer when you look at the accomplishments of the more recent additions to our hobby, i.e. Keith Elwin, Yeti, Franchi, Dirty Donnie, Scott Danesi, Eric, John Paul and the entire animation staff at Stern. For those of you who think Stern is not making money hand over fist on pros, you are crazy!
This thread is a soup sandwich...
It really has it all:
"F#ck DR!";
"F#ck Stern!";
"F#ck JJP!";
"F#ck AP!";
"F#ck Spooky!";
"F#ck CGC!"
"F#ck Suncoast!";
"F#ck Gottlieb!";
and I think there was even a ""F#ck B/W!" at one point as well, if I'm not mistaken. (Which begs me to ponder, do DE/Sega get no "love", or are they captured by extension of stern? No Gameplane? No Zaccaria? No Capcom?)
By this logic, who will be the first to just come out and say "F#ck Pinball!"?
Quoted from thedarkknight77:For those of you who think Stern is not making money hand over fist on pros, you are crazy!
Well AMEN to That, at least!
Quoted from thedarkknight77:For those of you who think Stern is not making money hand over fist on pros, you are crazy!
I think pros do ok, I would assume about $1k over BOM cost. Premiums have a much higher profit margin. I swear Gary once said that the LE's effectively pay for all the R&D for each new title, so all the lower tiers are strictly sale price minus parts/labor/overhead.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I think pros do ok, I would assume about $1k over BOM cost. Premiums have a much higher profit margin. I swear Gary once said that the LE's effectively pay for all the R&D for each new title, so all the lower tiers are strictly sale price minus parts/labor/overhead.
Starting at about 1 Million $ Development Cost divided by 500 LEs = 2000$ Margin
Yeah, sounds about right. 
Quoted from branlon8:Wow! What did the game look like underneath? I’m so curious. Were there tons of circuit boards and bus cables or was it a “proper” pin with the electronic and driver transistors in the backbox and separate cables for the playfield features?
They only slid out the playfield just enough to see the sides of the bottom half. Other than the Molex connectors, what I saw looked like any other pin. I didn’t get super nosy. It was clear they wanted to keep what is under the playfield a secret and I wanted to respect that.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:While we are in analysis mode, interested to know your thoughts as to how you rate JP a 1/10?
I just don't get it!
I feel like this whole review page is having a stroke https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/wolfemaaan/ratings
Very good interview with Robert Mueller on Kaneda's podcast. This is Robert's final interview until launching in March 2020. I won't tease you with some of his claims but the interview is 118 min long and worth a listen.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Very good interview with Robert on Kaneda's podcast. This is Roberts last interview before launch in March 2020. I won't tease you with some of his claims but the interview is 118 min long and worth a listen.
can someone just give us a 2 paragraph summary?
Quoted from razorsedge:21 TITLES! Lol
RM said many of those are only 15% done. It just means that's how many titles they have dreamed up or secured.
Gomez said Stern plans at least 3 years in advance which makes it 3x(3 cornerstone + 1 vault + 1 boutique) = 15.
I bet they juggle with more licenses than that at any one time.
Quoted from razorsedge:Well AMEN to That, at least!
Probably average cost of a pro is 2500 or less for them
Quoted from Pinballer67:That was their reveal, whether they like it or not. Even if you are an established business, like Stern, you shouldn't test your machine in public (and I'm sure you'll never see Stern testing a machine in public). Let alone when you are a company who is releasing their first pinball ever, has insinuated that it will be superior to everything else out there...and everybody is watching.
We all know it's a prototype but first impressions are very important. I think most like myself were expecting something closer to production and not with so many unfinished features. It doesn't make sense to me to hold back and intentionally handicap yourself on your big reveal. Tough to overcome that with whatever they come up with later. I don't care about all the drama, hype, and accounting. Honestly, who cares what their payroll is or how much they spend on rent? It all comes down to what you can produce. I guess they are just not ready for a proper release which is why I think they should of waited.
In the interview he tries to temper pricing expectation. To paraphrase; 'we're putting more in our games than the other guys, and will be charging commensurately'. He talks about value, not in the context of inexpensive, rather in the context of giving you more for the same money. Now some of his 'more' is the DeepRoot cabinet and tech, so remains to be see what the market will think of the value that adds.
My interpretation of his message is that his full feature mass market games will be ~$9500. But he wasn't specific and that's entirely my reading the tea leaves.
Go have a listen and see if you hear something different.
Quoted from cait001:can someone just give us a 2 paragraph summary?
As Robert Mueller's interview is pertinent to this thread, I will post some highlights. There are plenty of interesting points and comments made, so listen for yourself.
* Playfield will be made of wood and it can take sledge hammer without enduring damage.
* Deeproot will encounter the same manufacturing challenges as everyone else.
* There won't be any great initial awareness that the product is innovative. When you see all of their games and you open them up and see how they go together, you'll see the innovation more clearly. (oh brother).
* Customer may have options for playfield art, cabinet art and customization of the game.
* Robert is waiting to set game pricing until before launch. Won't price it at a discount. Robert maintains he will provide value, but not all at the Stern pro price.
* There may be three levels of every game released. Undefined what this means. (Robert implies that certain models with have more value and indicates more mechs or more software for a higher price and a version without that is lower cost). They will be pricing some games below market and some above market (I see Robert releasing models in all ranges between $4k - $15k).
* Robert says that he does not read Pinside anymore because it is too negative. "Pinside is a sewer" and any feedback is worthless and goes right in the trash. (He said this three times but I wonder why he can't get find any constructive feedback here. He is right that Pinside can be negative, but there is plenty of great observations and analysis from my armchair perspective. His comment is suspect since the stated reason for going to Houston was to get feedback).
* Deeproot has 21 games in design. 13 are 50% and the rest are 15%.
* All games will be different from one another in style, content, target demographic, skill level.
* Zombie Yeti's version of "artwork on Raza was a hack job".
* "Stern is weak".
Quoted from jarozi:My interpretation of his message is that his full feature mass market games will be ~$9500. But he wasn't specific and that's entirely my reading the tea leaves.
uh oh
homers-custom-car (resized).jpgQuoted from jeffspinballpalace:Playfield will be made of wood and it can take sledge hammer without enduring damage.
Deeproot will encounter the same manufacturing challenges as everyone else.
There won't be any great initial awareness that the product is innovative. When you see all of their games and you open the up and see how they go together, you will then see the innovation more clearly. (Oh brother).
Customer may have options for playfield art, cabinet art and customization of the game.
He is waiting to set game pricing until before launch. Won't price it at a discount. Robert maintains he will provide value, but not all at the Stern pro price.
Robert says that he does not read Pinside anymore because it is too negative. "It is a sewer" and any feedback is worthless and goes right in the trash. (He said this three times but I wonder why he can't get find any constructive feedback here. He is right that Pinside can be negative, but there is plenty of great observations and analysis from my armchair perspective. His comment is suspect since the stated reason for going to Houston was to get feedback).
There may be three levels of every game released. Undefined what this means.
Deeproot has 21 games in design. 13 are 50% and the rest are 15%.
All games will be different from one another in style, content, target demographic, skill level.
"Stern is weak".
thank you.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Ghostbusters is a zero. I noted that as you can’t put zeros. With that said, JP at 1 is saying its better than Ghostbusters
This means I’ll play JP, not Ghostbusters.
Get it?
You are trolling. Got it.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Robert says that he does not read Pinside anymore because it is too negative. "It is a sewer" and any feedback is worthless and goes right in the trash.
He's not wrong. I've never seen a bigger collection of people who seem to hate pinball on a pinball forum.
Quoted from cait001:I feel like this whole review page is having a stroke https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/wolfemaaan/ratings
Pretty much aligns with most ratings systems. People feel compelled to review when they are passionate about something, which tends to be strongly positive or strongly negative.
That's why I always read 1-star reviews on Amazon to get a real gauge on a product. Most of those 1-star reviews are about items that are DOA or damaged, but sometimes it's about the shipping or seller. Only if it's about usage of the product itself do I take those reviews into account.
Quoted from jarozi:In the interview he tries to temper pricing expectation. To paraphrase; 'we're putting more in our games than the other guys, and will be charging commensurately'. He talks about value, not in the context of inexpensive, rather in the context of giving you more for the same money. Now some of his 'more' is the DeepRoot cabinet and tech, so remains to be see what the market will think of the value that adds.
My interpretation of his message is that his full feature mass market games will be ~$9500. But he wasn't specific and that's entirely my reading the tea leaves.
Go have a listen and see if you hear something different.
These simply aren't going to sell in any appreciable numbers if they're going to be around JJP standard or even higher pricing. If they're at LE or higher, forget it.
He could surprise all of us and have a lean, efficient, and incredibly fast manufacturing operation, capable of building more than Stern, as he liked to claim. But if RAZA is the feature or 'value' level and high is the price, supply is going to dwarf demand.
Again, I really hope the other designers' games are far along and they've been given the freedom and resources to do their best work.
Quoted from zaphX:He's not wrong. I've never seen a bigger collection of people who seem to hate pinball on a pinball forum.
It's the internet, people like to bitch and moan.
No different than any other forum for any other product/hobby
Quoted from zaphX:He's not wrong. I've never seen a bigger collection of people who seem to hate pinball on a pinball forum.
Deep root aren’t trying to go for the “plucky upstart” thing that worked for spooky. That would be so far beneath them.
They are going for - embracing in fact! - the “obnoxious asshole” thing - and sticking the landing!! They are eliciting the exact response they are looking for. This is all part of their brilliant marketing plan. Not sure why you’d hold it against pinside for giving them exactly what they want.
all of you hoping for dirt cheap games are in for a sad day. The tip off was when 'value' became the talking point of the week... you pump the 'value' point when you want people to forgive the price.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:As Robert Mueller's the interview is pertinent to this thread, I will post some highlights. He states:
* Playfield will be made of wood and it can take sledge hammer without enduring damage.
* Deeproot will encounter the same manufacturing challenges as everyone else.
* There won't be any great initial awareness that the product is innovative. When you see all of their games and you open them up and see how they go together, you'll see the innovation more clearly. (oh brother).
* Customer may have options for playfield art, cabinet art and customization of the game.
* Robert is waiting to set game pricing until before launch. Won't price it at a discount. Robert maintains he will provide value, but not all at the Stern pro price.
* There may be three levels of every game released. Undefined what this means. (Robert implies that certain models with have more value and indicates more mechs or more software for a higher price and a version without that is lower cost). They will be pricing some games below market and some above market (I see Robert releasing models in all ranges between $4k - $15k).
* Robert says that he does not read Pinside anymore because it is too negative. "Pinside is a sewer" and any feedback is worthless and goes right in the trash. (He said this three times but I wonder why he can't get find any constructive feedback here. He is right that Pinside can be negative, but there is plenty of great observations and analysis from my armchair perspective. His comment is suspect since the stated reason for going to Houston was to get feedback).
* Deeproot has 21 games in design. 13 are 50% and the rest are 15%.
* All games will be different from one another in style, content, target demographic, skill level.
* Zombie Yeti's version of "artwork on Raza was a hack job".
* "Stern is weak".
* Zombie Yeti's version of "artwork on Raza was a hack job".
<removed>
So full disclosure - I didn’t listen to the podcast and was responding to the post(s) and messages stating what was said.
Robert reached out and clarified he was referring to the differing art styles and not my quality of work. I take his word and all is forgiven as you were....
What I learned from the interview is...
Deeproot is encountering the same tribulations that every other manufacture has. All claims of superiority are retrospectively called jokes. "I was of course joking about <insert ridiculous claim here>." To keep things interesting, Robert replaced earlier claims of superiority with new ones. I guess it's just a few more months until they're called jokes too.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Deep root aren’t trying to go for the “plucky upstart” thing that worked for spooky. That would be so far beneath them.
They are going for - embracing in fact! - the “obnoxious asshole” thing - and sticking the landing!! They are eliciting the exact response they are looking for. This is all part of their brilliant marketing plan. Not sure why you’d hold it against pinside for giving them exactly what they want.
In using Kaneda/Chris, he does have possibly the best marketing person on the planet, just ask him.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:It's the internet, people like to bitch and moan.
No different than any other forum for any other product/hobby
And just human beings in general. The net provides amplification for an otherwise less audible megaphone.
Quoted from zombieyeti:* Zombie Yeti's version of "artwork on Raza was a hack job".
Sounds slanderous.... of course Jpop was the 'ART director' and his eventual 'vision' (A.B. After Ben) required that I create all of the playfield art in AI as vector. Any illustrator knows that's a great way to limit detail & speed (jpop didn't know photoshop and wanted to tweak colorways) - but I finally relented at the moment he started to request EXACT IP characters and elements - not my original ideas. (Ask my wife about how much I wanted to run away at that point...)
That said - it's fantastic to see Robert sh*tting on all the effort (and drama therein) of so many people in pinball that actually have made games you can buy and play today. Classy stuff. Best of luck.
From my point of view, it's patently obvious that JPop is both a terrible art director and things went badly wrong for you.
The stuff he had you do stands out like a sore thumb as being way below the calibre of any of your other work - pinball or other. The colour work - no offense - is bad, quite apart from the design direction.
Also, his version of Houdini .... god that was hideous. Matt Andrews then goes and does a very decent package for TNA immediately afterwards.
I don't understand why people think JPop is some kind of god in this respect. He isn't.
Moreover he repeatedly tried to pass off artists' work as his own, including yours.
Quoted from zombieyeti:That said - it's fantastic to see Robert sh*tting on all the effort (and drama therein) of so many people in pinball that actually have made games you can buy and play today. Classy stuff. Best of luck.
Exactly !
Thanks jeffspinballpalace for summarizing R. Mueller's interview ! 
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:* Deeproot has 21 games in design. 13 are 50% and the rest are 15%.
All we need to know is how many are at 100%. How long did Jpop games remain at XX% ?
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:* Zombie Yeti's version of "artwork on Raza was a hack job".
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:* "Stern is weak".
Quoted from jlm33:Thanks jeffspinballpalace for summarizing R. Mueller's interview !
All we need to know is how many are at 100%. How long did Jpop games remain at XX% ?
There was plenty of humor in the interview. Hackjob Yeti is my favorite artist. 
Deep-root has shown they can design and build (2) prototype games of RAZA and that is big deal. Every story told about the pinball business is making pinballs is hard. Specifically, the physical manufacturing thru shipping. That part has yet to come, so as hard as Deeproot feels they have worked to get here, the road ahead is uphill and steeper.
Robert admitted his manufacturing will still occur in the real world and will face same challenges as any manufacturer. There is no magic pixie dust being proposed. I see little way dr could be more efficient than Stern,’who has armored itself over 60 years of making pinballs. If Robert allows small batches of games to be built on demand, that would be an innovation and better than Stern. Stern is so big that their run sizes are bigger and it takes them awhile to switchover between titles. The production schedule is more rigid. However Stern has control over their parts supplies and some over the demand side. When Stern get enough interest in a title (orders), they run more to meet demand. In that way they fine tune product mix.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:As Robert Mueller's interview is pertinent to this thread, I will post some highlights. There are plenty of interesting points and comments made, so listen for yourself.* Playfield will be made of wood and it can take sledge hammer without enduring damage.
That would be truly amazing if the top layer is also made out of wood with some kind of clearcoat.
If the top layer is some kind of thick plastic, then it is not entirely made out of wood.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Does anybody think a pinball game can be bad (besides Ghostbusters)
If this game was in your local arcade today would you not play it? Of course you would which means it’s good.
Theme has killed almost every game from the last 5 years for me. And no, I won't pay money to play them. However, if it is free somewhere, I will play a couple balls to see how it shoots.
If a collector has only those at is place, I will not go out of my way to visit just to play them.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:There was plenty of humor in the interview. Hackjob Yeti is my favorite artist.
Deep-root has shown they can design and build (2) prototype games of RAZA and that is big deal. Every story told about the pinball business is making pinballs is hard. Specifically, the physical manufacturing thru shipping. That part has yet to come, so as hard as Deeproot feels they have worked to get here, the road ahead is uphill and steeper.
It's nothing like as hard as a lot of people want you to think.
Just look what Haggis did in only a year.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:* "Stern is weak".
Statements like this disgust me.
Why hate on other manufacturers when you can't even keep up with your own set deadlines?
I don't get the vibe in this thread either from a lot of people, why does every other manufacturer needs to be shit and Deeproot be the savior?
Point is that DR shows up with a half baked prototype and people are shitting their pants how awesome it is and blows away everything Stern is doing?
Yeah right... 
Curious for their big reveal though but in the meantime I'll keep enjoying the great Stern games Stern is putting out now and games from other manufacturers! 
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