Boulder, CO
Girlfriend: Hey, what's new?
Me: Been reading Pinside. Remember that idiot lawyer in Texas I've told you about. He really screwed the pooch this weekend.
Girlfriend: You told me about two of them. Which one?
Me: Both
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I have zero idea how any of this works.
Can someone explain why RM hasn’t been arrested/indicted for something yet?
Is that forthcoming?
I believe its because this is a civil matter by the SEC. Criminal charges can be filed as well though.
Quoted from Richthofen:These are NOT good intentions. If Robert wanted $5 million to build a pinball company, he should have asked investors for $5 million for a pinball company. Instead, he lied to investors and said, I will invest in safe investments, life insurance policies, etc. I wonder why he lied? Oh thats right, because even the dumbest financial advisor in the world knows that investing in pinball is high risk. He wanted the cheap and safe perceived value of investment money for fixed income streams, but for other shit that is not that.
It's like when my derelict brother asks me for $150 in grocery money, then blows it at the casino (yes, this is a thing that happens in my life regularly). He knows if he asked for casino money I'd say fuck off I don't go to work to fund your habit. But when he asks for grocery money, shit am i going to say no to my iraq veteran baby brother who my mom asked me to take care of when she dies? The key is, after a few times of getting conned, I now physically take him to the grocery store and pay for his groceries at check out. And I keep the receipt so he can't return the groceries (yes, he would return groceries for cash).
Again, the “he had good intentions” crowd is still under the spell.
Quoted from Mr68:Girlfriend: What's new?
Me: Been reading Pinside. Remember that idiot lawyer in Texas I've told you about. He really screwed the pooch this weekend.
Girlfriend: You told me about two of them. Which one?
Me: Both
For me the convo went like this...
“Hey baby remember that scam pinball company I mentioned when we were watching The Lady and the Dale ?”
“Yep!”
“Well.....”
Quoted from CrazyLevi:For me the convo went like this...
“Hey baby remember that scam pinball company I mentioned when we were watching The Lady and the Dale ?”
“Yep!”
“Well.....”
For me the convo went like this....
"Hey wifey do you remember the scam pinball company I mentioned to you"
"The pin-what?"
Quoted from frolic:I wonder how quickly this escalated because someone searching for "deeproot funds" found THIS THREAD and that set the alarm bells off fast.
I said it earlier, don’t name all your fraudulent companies basically the same thing
The Pinball News articled summed it up nicely:
"How Deeproot Pinball could be financially viable was always puzzling. With huge on-going expenses, no product shipped, and little interest in their first title, the flow of money always seemed to be going one way with little prospect of turning the finances around in the short-to-medium term.
Robert had previously claimed that he was funding Deeproot Pinball with his own money. If the SEC’s claims are to be believed, he had a pretty relaxed attitude to what money was “his” to spend."
OK, seriously, what is in the water in Utah? This dropped the day after Bobby's:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ut/united-states-vs-chad-leon-sayers
Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 6.34.56 AM (resized).png
DOJ filing document here: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ut/page/file/1392136/download (have not yet read!)
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/21/22635779/ceo-saygus-smartphone-company-fraud
Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 6.37.17 AM (resized).png
I was going to highlight the similarities in this article, but that would have meant highlighting these entire paragraphs:
Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 6.31.14 AM (resized).png
https://www.pcmag.com/opinions/how-i-got-suckered-by-an-alleged-10m-phone-scam
Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 6.37.51 AM (resized).png
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Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 6.39.43 AM (resized).png
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Quoted from RobT:The Pinball News articled summed it up nicely:
"How Deeproot Pinball could be financially viable was always puzzling. With huge on-going expenses, no product shipped, and little interest in their first title, the flow of money always seemed to be going one way with little prospect of turning the finances around in the short-to-medium term.
Robert had previously claimed that he was funding Deeproot Pinball with his own money. If the SEC’s claims are to be believed, he had a pretty relaxed attitude to what money was “his” to spend."
Where was the critical thinking when pinball news was acting as a free PR firm for them for 2 years?
Don’t blame them for giving him so much press as RM was a good interview and they got space
To fill, but, well, a little of this editorializing would have been nice to see early on.
Quoted from RobT:The Pinball News articled summed it up nicely:
"How Deeproot Pinball could be financially viable was always puzzling. With huge on-going expenses, no product shipped, and little interest in their first title, the flow of money always seemed to be going one way with little prospect of turning the finances around in the short-to-medium term.
Robert had previously claimed that he was funding Deeproot Pinball with his own money. If the SEC’s claims are to be believed, he had a pretty relaxed attitude to what money was “his” to spend."
Time for someone to dig up all those old interviews to see exactly how he described the funding sources, and how those descriptions changed over time?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Where was the critical thinking when pinball news was acting as a free PR firm for them for 2 years?
Don’t blame them for giving him so much press as RM was a good interview and they got space
To fill, but, well, a little of this editorializing would have been nice to see early on.
Believe me, I was thinking the same thing when I was reading that article.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Where was the critical thinking when pinball news was acting as a free PR firm for them for 2 years?
Don’t blame them for giving him so much press as RM was a good interview and they got space
To fill, but, well, a little of this editorializing would have been nice to see early on.
Quoted from RobT:Believe me, I was thinking the same thing when I was reading that article.
And what about This Week in Pinball? I'll screenshot three sentences from their article.
Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 6.56.20 AM (resized).png
Oh wait, I meant to write, "I'll screenshot their three-sentence article."
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Where was the critical thinking when pinball news was acting as a free PR firm for them for 2 years?
Don’t blame them for giving him so much press as RM was a good interview and they got space
To fill, but, well, a little of this editorializing would have been nice to see early on.
well, I'm listening to the interview as we speak. and if you pay enough attention to Jonathan and Martin's reactions to some of Robert's answers, there's a whole bunch of editorializing. It's just subtle and the listener needs to read between the lines.
A few Robert articles in financial outlets that don't really add anything to the story:
https://financialadvisoriq.com/c/3296364/417324/charges_advisor_with_running_fraud
Though I suppose enterprising rooters and root enthusiasts could reach out to the authors to see if they'd be interested in some additional color for follow-up stories.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:They can if Robert relaunches the pinbar as a mobile phone!
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/21/22635779/ceo-saygus-smartphone-company-fraud
EDIT: No joke, the similarities here are something. Maybe this Sayers guy and Robert can room together.
WOW! An alias, perhaps? lol
I'm only interested in a Saygus Super Smartphone if it's shipped to me in a PinPod!
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Couple new Robert articles in financial outlets that don't really add anything to the story (except more eyeballs):
https://www.fa-mag.com/news/san-antonio-advisor-defrauded-retirees-in-a--58m-scheme--sec-charged-63645.html
https://www.hedgeco.net/news/08/2021/investment-adviser-charged-with-operating-a-fraudulent-scheme-and-misappropriating-58-million.html
I'm waiting for more to find out the ridiculous pinball vaporware aspect. But the second wedding, second divorce, and third wedding in a few years is pretty great clickbait gold in a few sentences.
Quoted from bigehrl:well, I'm listening to the interview as we speak. and if you pay enough attention to Jonathan and Martin's reactions to some of Robert's answers, there's a whole bunch of editorializing. It's just subtle and the listener needs to read between the lines.
Cool, I never listened to those. I just remember the press releases and printed softball interviews when he was making his initial "Pinball is Easy" splash.
Quoted from Mr68:Girlfriend: What's new?
Me: Been reading Pinside. Remember that idiot lawyer in Texas I've told you about. He really screwed the pooch this weekend.
Girlfriend: You told me about two of them. Which one?
Me: Both
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Cool, I never listened to those. I just remember the press releases and printed softball interviews when he was making his initial "Pinball is Easy" splash.
i should point out there are also definitely moments where i'm fairly certain they're eating and adjusting themselves in between questions. 
Quoted from deeproot:Actually you can thank me for Elvira 3. I’m the one who came up with it back in 2015 and told Dennis and Greg I wanted them to do it. I even reached out and spoke with Cassandra’s agent. I came up with a theme and fleshed it out with Dennis to present Elvira in a more timeless fashion. Dennis and I let things go after working with Charlie didn’t work out. Then at TPF 2017 I sat in the back of the room smiling when Cassandra Greg and Dennis announced that it was going to be made in the breakout session. While I don’t know what the current design or status is, if rumors are true that Stern is going to delay it’s release, I would love to purchase the license from them and finish it right. —Robert
This is hilarious. Wonder what’s Dennis & Sterns take on this. I’m guessing very different.
Really sucks for everyone who worked at Deeproot and invested.
How many people on pinside can say " I told you so ". Think there are more than a handful
of skeptics that saw this coming.
Quoted from thechakapakuni:This is hilarious. Wonder what’s Dennis & Sterns take on this. I guessing very different.
I feel like they were kicking around that idea since at least 2012. He's just making up stuff to sound more important than he is.
Quoted from deeproot:Actually you can thank me for Elvira 3. —Robert
Quoted from thechakapakuni:This is hilarious. Wonder what’s Dennis & Sterns take on this. I guessing very different.
"You can thank me for for having the creativity to increase the number "2" to "3" for a beloved pinball property. We will soon be filing a patent for what we're calling pinCounting, and it will be game over for all other manufacturers." - Robert Mueller
Quoted from toyotaboy:In case anyone wants to read through Robert's postings
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution?tq=&tu=deeproot
Red alert, red alert. Archive, archive, archive!
Quoted from toyotaboy:In case anyone wants to read through Robert's postings
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution?tq=&tu=deeproot
wow, this is some seriously sociopathic shit...
Quoted from RobT:The Pinball News articled summed it up nicely:
"How Deeproot Pinball could be financially viable was always puzzling. With huge on-going expenses, no product shipped, and little interest in their first title, the flow of money always seemed to be going one way with little prospect of turning the finances around in the short-to-medium term.
Robert had previously claimed that he was funding Deeproot Pinball with his own money. If the SEC’s claims are to be believed, he had a pretty relaxed attitude to what money was “his” to spend."
So did John Popaduik. John was out buying a new van and Range Rover with the Zidware money, I told him the money was not his til after he delivered the purchased games and what was left was his money. He disagreed, In my opinion Popaduik should be sharing a cell with Robert Mueller.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Red alert, red alert. Archive, archive, archive!
crop (resized).png"So, where is it right for anyone (especially someone who has no stake in the Zidware mess) to dictate whether someone has a right to right wrongs, finish what was promised, pay hard punishments... ?"
-- Robert dT
SEC (with an assist from DOJ): <raises hand)>
Quoted from pookycade:through another of Robert Mueller’s companies, Relief Defendants.
Pinballnews got that one wrong. The tendency to capitalize key terms in legal documents can lead to confusion.
Quoted from thechakapakuni:Quoted from deeproot: Actually you can thank me for Elvira 3. I’m the one who came up with it back in 2015 and told Dennis and Greg I wanted them to do it. If rumors are true that Stern is going to delay it’s release, I would love to purchase the license from them and finish it right. —Robert
Everyone who is lucky enough to own EHoH thanks the lord that deeproot did not acquire the rights for it from Stern.
Quoted from littlecammi:Everyone who is lucky enough to own a Stern EHoH thanks the lord that deeproot did not acquire the rights for it from Stern.
Considering that EHOH has been out for YEARS already, and deeproot never got any titles released, is a real example of how things get done at Stern versus the disaster that was deeproot. Even if somehow Robert had a conversation years ago about what an E3 might look like.
It's like with ZombieYeti... you want your art on games in the world, work with Stern.
Quoted from frolic:Considering that EHOH has been out for YEARS already, and deeproot never got any titles released, is a real example of how things get done at Stern versus the disaster that was deeproot. Even if somehow Robert had a conversation years ago about what an E3 might look like.
It's like with ZombieYeti... you want your art on games in the world, work with Stern.
"I told George Lucas this star wars thing is pretty cool. You should make another one. My idea
I told Stallone that Rocky thing was a pretty fun. You should make more of those. My idea
Pretty much all sequels were my idea basically.
But you don't have to thank me. You are welcome!"
--dR00ts
Quoted from DudeRegular:"I told George Lucas this star wars thing is pretty cool. You should make another one. My idea
I told Stallone that Rocky thing was a pretty fun. You should make more of those. My idea
Pretty much all sequels were my idea basically.
But you don't have to thank me. You are welcome!"
--dR00ts
Hey guys, I just had a genius idea: PlayStation 6.
If Sony ends up making it someday, you know who to thank.
Seems like people are always gonna be impressed by flashy loudmouths who are spreading a lot of money around.
Quite simply, RM bought his credibility around here, and it was easy. We went from nobody knowing who this asshole was to people clamoring to send him money in a matter of a couple short months.
For Mueller, it was cheap and easy to buy respect, credibility, and belief in the pinball community. Sure he's a loudmouth, and yeah he's obnoxious, and yeah he's provided absolutely zero evidence he can actually build pinball machines, but he's rich!!! Wouldn't be wise to doubt him!
I guess it was the same pitch from the seniors he scammed out of $60 million. I'm sure we'll know more in the near future.
One of the most maddening arguments around here was the one you heard quite often:
"Well, Barry, Nordman...these guys never would have signed up if they didn't believe in him! And I trust these guys!!!"
Such nonsense. The checks clear and that's enough, and I don't blame them. But it was always such a lame argument as to why we should believe this would actually happen. Barry was a wash up on the street, one of the only old-timers Stern nor JJP had any interest in, his career in pinball was clearly as obsolete as his choice in Halloween costumes. Why the Hell wouldn't he accept a check to design "food truck" without completely vetting how much of a criminal RM was?
Hope this puts that argument to bed, for good. You know, for the next time around, in 6 months or so when we all get on this dumb merry go round again.
Quoted from LORDDREK:Supposed to be a Pinocchio hat to emphasize that lying bastards long nose but alas I am clearly no artist…
Octopuses don't have noses, so you're also no marine biologist. Nice hat though!
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Hey guys, I just had a genius idea: PlayStation 6.
If Sony ends up making it someday, you know who to thank.
Have you heard of 8 minute abs?
Quoted from DudeRegular:Have you heard of 8 minute abs?
HAAA!! i just pulled that up on YouTube right before you commented! it's exactly the same thing!
"alright, ok, i see where you're going. that's good. unless someone comes up with 6 minute abs. then you're in trouble."
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Seems like people are always gonna be impressed by flashy loudmouths who are spreading a lot of money around.
Quite simply, RM bought his credibility around here, and it was easy. We went from nobody knowing who this asshole was to people clamoring to send him money in a matter of a couple short months.
For Mueller, it was cheap and easy to buy respect, credibility, and belief in the pinball community.
Kaneda was the same thing. Guy burned himself out of the arcade community then bought an LOTR and Magic Girl and all of the sudden he's the pinball guy. Of course the competitive scene doesn't give a shit about how much money you have or how big your collection is; so naturally when they don't kiss his ass he throws a tantrum and a drink in Tim's face after disrupting a tournament.
People like drama and confident assholes. It's why Shark Tank isn't a civil discussion it's an interruption fest filled with belittling comments, but is highly rated.
Copenhagen
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Quite simply, RM bought his credibility around here...
Yes. Yes he did. But to me it was not because of his person (joker) or the stuff he said (more the contrary). But largely due to the people he surrounded him with and who had good things to say.
My views on RM/DR took over the time the curve of: Head shaking->impressed->positive anticipation->doubtful->head shaking->scandal.
The impressed phase was when he had hired pinball people and seem to get something going.
The anticipation phase was when prototypes and innovations were revealed. Then silence, delay and questionable communication from RM. And it went downhill.
The point I want to make. Being a scamster, it is so powerful to have trustworthy people relay what you say. Those good people I feel sorry for the most.
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