Quoted from Jared:

"
NO QUESTIONING MODERATION DECISIONS
The Moderators and site administrator have the final say on anything. If you have a problem, you may make a complaint to them directly and not publicly on the website.
Creating threads or posts that question or reference administrative decisions or potential administrative decisions, such as post removals and thread closures, is not permitted. We are not perfect and if you feel that we have made a mistake, please privately contact a staff member and we will review the situation.
We reserve the right to terminate your account without notice. This would normally not happen unless we feel you are a threat to the well-being of the Pinside community (i.e. spamming or flying off the handle).
"

Quoted from Jared:

That the rules should be followed.

Quoted from maddog14:

So, I'm all jazzed for the latest and greatest updates.
So whats new since I left the other thread? Anything?
Go team SkitB!

Quoted from centerflank:

The moderators had a meeting and requested you stop eating so much.

Quoted from maddog14:

So, if I want information, I go to the locked thread. If I want to discuss SkitB-Predator I come here.
Got it.

Quoted from loren3233:

Is this still "The Official Pinside Skit-B Predator Discussion"?
Maybe the posting Moderator can change the title.
Hard to believe when this was posted.........
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-few-words-from-skit-b-pinball#post-2076260

Quoted from YKpinballer:

Yeah Skit-B responded in the other thread. Congrats everybody, you can finally relax.

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

A lot of these posters wouldn't be as ballsy in person as they are online.

Quoted from spfxted:

Looks EXACTLY like the one on the card....

Quoted from kaneda:

I bet if we took a poll of people who thought Skit B is doing this theme justice, 95% of people would agree with me. Come on man, are you blind? It's 2015! A pinball machine with no Toys, no magnets, nothing innovative at all!!! Well a weird guy handing from nowhere and a painted skull, that's it. Oh and black lights that don't work. I'm sorry, this license deserves more. You disagree?

Quoted from Hazoff:

I'm getting back every cent, this will not end well for Kevin if my refund isn't prompt. I think the notion that the money is gone is ridiculous, it is to me anyway. You can't take funds for a product and not deliver without consiquence, I have to give the man a chance but no way will i take a 3K loss, its enough that we had to wait years and now will not recieve our game, that hurts me as it was one of my dream themes but to add to all this stolen funds as thats how I would deem it will be unnaceptable. I really supported SkitB and if Kevin had been forthright and honest and simply could not complete the project then hey I would be sympathetic and lenient in terms of partial refund but the deceipt is at that core of it all, that I cannot forgive and will pursue legal action to the fullest means, not cool.

Quoted from playboywillis:

EmailFromKevin.png

Quoted from mcluvin:

I offered a very neutral statement that makes everyone aware of the 2 facts you did have. There were allegations and Kevin wasn't responding to Pinside's questions regarding them. It would have safely prompted most people to take notice if they hadn't already without showing favor to one or the other.

Quoted from ccotenj:

anyone who wants to blame pinside/pinside moderators for any of this needs to take a step back...
they have ZERO responsibility (and if was them, i would not open myself up to it) to vet and approve "new projects"... pinside has not been, is not today, and is very unlikely to be in the future involved in "signing off" of projects... that would be a rather large mistake, imo, as they then open themselves up to involvement when "shit hits fan"...
nor do they have the responsibility to "protect you from yourself"...

Quoted from starfighter:

I certainly am not blaming them one bit. I am expressing disappointment with their decision to take no action when a neutral statement could have been made with ease. I have always viewed the Mods as having our back i.e. someone attacks you or you attack someone, they take care of both issues. They control flame wars & nutjobs too. For the most part they have a unified level headed common sense view towards the pinball community and I applaud that attitude. However, they dropped the ball on this one.

Quoted from flynnibus:

I'm going to anonymous send the mod team a list of pinside handles that I believe are convicted conmen. Do you expect the mods to repost that unsubstantiated claim with a 'neutral statement' saying "it has been brought to our attention, through a source we can not identify that these people are unworthy of dealing with on pinside - but we can't confirm or deny who these people are"
You can't take your position of authority and spread unsubstantiated rumors... even if you say they are unconfirmed... because simply you saying them carries authority.

Quoted from metallik:

Don't pick out the moderators specifically. It sounds like the majority of the anonymous-email recipients were so-called "immortals" anyway (still LOLing at that term in the article). There are no pinside rules to deal with anonymous tips, and I can see each and every mod filing those emails under "not my job." If you're going to complain of the secrecy, blame EVERYONE who got the emails, not just the pinside mods. I still think someone shoulda spilled the beans, considering all the other overwhelming evidence, but I'm certainly not gonna blame anyone for staying the F out of this mess.

Quoted from jonnyo:

Particularly, ingratiating themselves for the purposes of 'consumer protection' in a business deal between individuals and Skit-B pinball that involves nearly $5000 per game is face-palm ridiculous. If you want someone to look out for you, get a lawyer.

Quoted from jonnyo:

Okay, you're disappointed.
As I continually pointed out, they have no obligation to your welfare. Maybe, instead of complaining they didn't do step 2 to your satisfaction, appreciate that they even bothered to do step 1.

Quoted from guarda:

I presumed most have done this or will at some point. Am I wrong?

Quoted from Dalbok:

I would actually imagine that the calculation was extremely simple. I imagine there would be an Account Summary screen that shows the amount of Credits to the Seller and an Amount that remains in the Account. Her only calculation would be to see if those two numbers are equal.
I agree that it's surprising for them to divulge information on another account but giving the circumstances and the activity that has likely occurred on the account perhaps it provides some leeway.
Regardless though, I hope for sake of those that preordered that she knows what she is taking about.

Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

From his text he said that the paypal account has been locked since June of 2013 because paypal does not allow preorders.

Quoted from underlord:

Quick question here:
If PayPal and or Kevin never give refunds at all, and Kevin barely touched the money ( supposedly), what happens to the money?
It would piss me off to no end to find out some 3rd party asshat has good timing and happened to legally obtain OUR money.
So if, big IF, Kevin cannot access pp for refunds, and pp says, "sorry, not your money!" and issues no refunds themselves, how would this ever end???

Quoted from underlord:

Great.
Sooo long time if ever.
Sh*t.

Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Thanks for the info. At this point I don't expect to see a refund, but im also not gonna let someone blatantly steal money from me either.

Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Are you talking about rlslicks thread?

Quoted from Enaud:

I urge each and every one of you customers to file a consumer complaint/fraud report with the Michigan Attorney General. Did that today. One thing that I did notice, and here is their quote:
"Because of the enormous volume of complaints we receive, however, the Attorney General's office cannot file lawsuits on behalf of individual consumers. Rather, the Attorney General will sue a company only when the general public interest is involved or in certain cases involving a large number of consumers."
If we have 200+ consumer complaints filed against Mr. Kulek, that might be a large enough population to gain their interest and motivate them to do something.
Step by step, please continue to share your progress.

Quoted from vid1900:

If Kevin had the skills to earn more money he would not have bought a $50,000 house.
99% of people buy the most house they can possibly afford.
He's got 3 kids, so he would want them to grow up in the best possible neighborhood, not a $50,000 hood.
I agree that it would be great if he had a way to make things right.
Maybe bankruptcy will be the fresh start his family is going to need.

Quoted from HomeBrew:

I new it was a gamble when I paid my money and was willing to accept it whether I won or lost the bet.
It appears that I lost the bet, but it is only money.

Quoted from bigduke6:

I was in since the beginning but got out with the $3000 demand. I've read every post. The one thing that i missed or didn't understand is the timeline. Maybe I'm wrong but didn't he wipe the website way before the Ag or Martin said Fox was contacted and he showed up on their radar? Sorry if this was addressed.

Quoted from playboywillis:

Can you prove that he never had a license? I'm not being a dick. Just saying. Can you prove it?

Quoted from RobT:

Any case you file in court is a civil case. Not criminal.

Quoted from herbertbsharp:

I just hope everyone is getting together behind the scenes, off this board, so they are organized and that every one of their planned actions isn't telegraphed to Kevin Kulek. You know he's reading every last word so he can strategize best. And since I just reminded myself that he is certainly reading this, "HEY KEVIN, F@#K YOU"

Quoted from hank527:

I do not get why he gets a pass. He shouldn't show his face in public. He was with Kevin as Kevin was taking our money.

Quoted from Cobra99:

I have an update. Just got off the phone with a midland deputy and gave him my personal info (had contacted him last week). He mentioned that he was going over to visit Kevin and his lawyer in the next 1/2 hour. The deputy will contact me in the next day or two to let me know what happened.

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

"Whhaaaaaaa, you guys involved my family, and I'm a giant pussy. Whaaaaaaaaa."

Quoted from Nibbles:

I also like how Kevin referenced the "$30k" house his wife bought in Nov of 2014 that he lives in. I wish he commented further as to why a married couple with three kids would only put the one person, whom is not likely to be sued in the next five months, on the title of this 'new' house.
Muh'fucka might need to see a doctor about his certifiable verbal diarrhea.
Kathy, can you please tell your son to actually refund the money, and not turtle-up and hide under your bed, thinking this will all blow over? K, thanx bae!

Quoted from Eryeal:

I don't get all the frustration at Paypal - why do people think Paypal owes them money? That would be like getting mad at your bank because you wrote a check to Skit-B a year ago and then go back to your bank and say you didn't receive the product and want your money back. It's the exact same thing people! Paypal's policies are clear as day - if you think Paypal is going to give you your money back after a lengthy time for a pre-sale item, that's your own lack of common sense and fault. Paypal is not some magic money protector - yes they have Buyer Protection, but you actually have to READ what that covers and how long it covers it for. It's not until infinity, yet so many people on here seemingly think it is. Stop blaming Paypal for not giving you your money back - it's not their responsibility - the risk was on your end. There's no harm in TRYING to get your money back and opening a case, nor in initiating a chargeback, but it's silly to get mad at Paypal for the risk that you knowingly took, expecting them to pay for it. Common sense.

Quoted from robertmee:

Your whole house of cards is based on alot of unknown assumptions. We don't know at this point what paypal did or didn't do. All we know is that they are denying refunds due to their policy of expiration. That's about it.

Quoted from BackFlipper:

If Kevin had died (without making any games) instead of being a liar, would everyone still be blaming PayPal?
It is crazy the way the mob travels and chases the AG, the Vendors, PayPal, etc...
Again, only one person to go after here. It is Kevin Kulek. Stay the course.

Quoted from playernumber4:

Seriously now...after all of this whining nobody has yet contacted an investigator at the Midland Police Department, State Police, County Sheriff department or State Attorney General yet? I don't know where Kevin lives, or I would post the phone number of the law enforcement agencies who would be involved.
SOMEONE has to make the original criminal complaint in this matter and then post the name and phone number of the investigator who will be in charge of this case so that he can contact the victims and begin his investigation. And the caller has to be someone who was a victim of the fraud. There seems to be a lot of smoke being blown here and a lot of finger pointing but NOBODY seems to have made an effort to contact the law enforcement agency who will ultimately be conducting the investigation.
Anybody threatening with a lawsuit is just wasting his money and spinning his wheels. This is a criminal matter and it cannot proceed until the victims come forward to the agency who will doing the prosecution. You pay taxes which pay for the prosecutor, its does not cost you any money to prosecute other than the postage you might spend mailing copies of receipts, emails etc to the investigator.
So what is all this BS about if nobody here has the stones to begin the process of prosecution? Is everyone still waiting for the tooth fairy to put a refund check under their pillow tonight? Many people have been defrauded, yet nobody chooses to do anything about it except complain to each other?
Wake up people. And when you find out which agency is going to be handling it post the information here so that everyone can get their complaint and fact sheet to the same central authority.

Quoted from rommy:

If you are a victim please gather the following to report to,the detective in midland. Please don't wait. Please call,him right away.
1- all your details, DOB, address, how much you paid, when, how much, in a one page summary email. Include dates! Declare yourself a victim of KKK and here are my details.
2- evidence of any contact you had with KKK - notes from phone calls, recorded messages, and emails. Attach all this to your email.
3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.
I have to make you find his phone number yourself. Detective Brett Benzing with the Midland County Sheriff. Only 5 people have reported today...WTF!?!
Don't lay down for this! Call the detective! Gather info and email the detective ! That information is bullets in his gun.
Right now, as we speak, KKK is relaxing. He DOES have counsel now. They are taking the position that NONE of this is criminal, it's all civil. His position is he never lied, never defrauded. Don't let him do this to us. Help prove to that detective what a rat bastard snitch Kevin Kulek is.

Quoted from sensfreak:

Can someone PM me the information for the detective so I can call too? How many people have called?

Quoted from pezpunk:

Predator-themed salad dressing

Quoted from Nibbles:

The ride, never ends...

Quoted from iceman44:

Just be happy you got it

Quoted from cfh:

what about the custom parts? So you know he bought the back alley creation toys. What do those have any value? Probably not. He never had the ramps made so you got nothing there. And even if he did they be custom so they be of no value anyways. Who wants black Williams cabinets with the word "predator" on the side? I saw Paul at the Ann Arbor pinball show as a vendor, he was selling blank cabinets for $200. And those had no stickers on them which are certainly more versatile than ones that say "predator" on the side. To sell those somebody would have to strip the cabinet graphics off them. That's a lot of work. Are you gonna pay somebody to do that? Are the playfield worth anything? I guess it would be a neat wall hanging but a lot of negative feelings comes with that, I'm not even sure it's worth it for that aspect. I believe Kevin bought those from spooky originally for 400 dollars each. So there isn't really even a lot of value with the play field.
in the end chasing down these magical and mysterious and probably nonexistent parts, it's just a waste of time. In the end nothings really will come of it, if they could even be found, and if they even exist. The only person that gets anything out of this whole ordeal is the lawyers. Maybe a buyer would buy all the stuff for a what a thousand dollars? Then divide that by the number of people in the class action suit, and everybody ends up with a pizza, and the lawyers buy a new car. If people really need a pizza, see me at Chicago Expo, and we'll go out and get some Chicago pizza together and I'll buy. Maybe get a beer too. I don't really need much of an excuse to go to a famous Chicago pizzeria...

Quoted from flyhigh:

The explanation from Clay make the most sense in this situation, The lawyers are really going to be the only party that will be receiving any money in this situation and it is time to move on to bigger and better things. Just my opinion.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

The point was to not bother wasting time chasing down all smaller nickel & dime stuff that has already been scattered to the four winds, and focus more on the more expensive assets that are still held by Kevin and the group of people that were directly involved with the project.

Trying to chase down all the collectors who may have ended up with various parts & pieces is not going to be a good use of a lawyer's time, especially with little evidence or paper trail to go on. For example, is it worthwhile to chase down a $4 pop bumper cap at $100+ per hour, with a potential time investment of several hours of research per lead which was likely an in-person cash transaction with no paper trail? Better to focus on the big ticket items and large transfers of cash that can still potentially be reclaimed.

Quoted from Lonzo:

That's what I was asking in a previous post. How can you sell products for money that have intellectual property on them?

Quoted from Xdetroit:

If your goal is to be punitive, be straight up about it. I think that is misdirected but I did not get cheated here. Seems like you guys, who liked the game so much that you forked over $4k+ to own one, would want the opportunity to play one at an event or a museum. Being punitive will only guaranty that you never will.
It would be better to use Hiltons $500 to help the class.

Quoted from vdojaq:

OK, do you think you will ever see anything more than 10 cents on the dollar? That's on the high end...after the lawyers are done.

Quoted from fosaisu:

All kinds of stuff...

Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I think they are dropping the case against momma K as she has no assets, thus not worth the time to pursue any assets.
I just hope that criminal charges end up getting filed against all of them, regardless of the outcome of this case.