(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 258 of 366.
#12851 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Actually, tipping off a reporter and having him follow the breadcrumbs was the best way to go.
If people would have gone on Pinside early 2014 yelling "Kevin's a fraud!" they would have run up against "The SkitB Defense Force".

10 thumbs up for Ben.

#12852 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

We have frozen Brickshot for being a duplicate. Just FYI.

Does this mean that Tim is permanently banned from posting on Pinside? Just curious as it seemed he was spewing some pretty good info on this thread.

#12853 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Does this mean that Tim is permanently banned from posting on Pinside? Just curious as it seemed he was spewing some pretty good info on this thread.

He's been permanently banned for years now, as he knows. He continues committing an intentional interference with a business civil tort (one of the things he confessed in writing earlier in this thread he was aware he was doing, so he can claim ignorance to that fact no longer - he's not doing it negligently, he knows he is harming the site with his intentional behavior) by returning and wasting our time and resources masquerading around as other people and having us have to smoke him out.

So hopefully we will not be seeing him again here...since he admitted he has full knowledge he is hurting the site.

47
#12854 2 years ago

Sorry guys, There was a bit of confusion on how to handle this particular situation and the mods waited for my input. And since I'm in a different timezone plus less time behind a screen during the weekends it took some time to act.

Dupe accounts are not allowed. Period. If an account is frozen or banned then obviously we cannot allow the same person to just simply create a new account and continue posting. Well, technically they can of course - but dupes will be detected and then also frozen.

We're soon gonna be blocking posting access to several sub-forums (including all game manufacturers forums) for all unverified accounts in the near future. And that should also make dupe/fake/troll account posting a lot harder (well, that's the idea at least).

Finally, please take it easy on the mods. You have no idea how much effort they put into helping me keeping this site running.

Thanks!

#12855 2 years ago
Quoted from Firebaall:

That has no reflection or responsibility on the IP holder. Stop the red herring.

Not a red herring. If he actually released the game and it sucked, it would potentially cause damage to their IP/trademark ("Wow, look at that shitty Predator pinball, I can't believe they let that get produced.. " etc). Even one copy can be enough to destroy. This is one of the main arguments rights lawyers make concerning counterfeit products. Although there was never a real Predator machine, shitty unlicensed games can hurt Fox's reputation.

#12856 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Fox does not spend a single second of their corporate day worrying about any of that.
Note that after many years:
- Fox has not demanded Kevin turn over his game.
- Fox has not taken Kevin to court to collect any damages.
- Fox has not petitioned any federal law enforcement agencies to take action against Kevin.
Why? Because Fox does not care about a goofy guy who dresses like a pirate, and built a Predator pinball machine in his basement.
Fox has billions of pirate Bluray, DVDs and toys to worry about, sequels to Avatar and How to Train your Dragon - you know, stuff that actually matters to their bottom line.

Yet.

They very well might not care. If this slowly burns out and the games stay underground with whomever has them now, maybe they continue to ignore. But, if this stays as noisy as it's been, even just in the pinball community, I think they take steps to get the games back and destroyed. The fact that dozens (or hundreds) of people lost good chunks of money is why I think this will eventually end with the destruction of the games. Some folks won't let it die til there's nothing left to beat.

#12857 2 years ago

Question, as I can't remember, was there ever a point before the collapse where Kevin tried to work out a last minute deal with Fox?

#12858 2 years ago
Quoted from robin:

Sorry guys, There was a bit of confusion on how to handle this particular situation and the mods waited for my input. And since I'm in a different timezone plus less time behind a screen during the weekends it took some time to act.
Dupe accounts are not allowed. Period. If an account is frozen or banned then obviously we cannot allow the same person to just simply create a new account and continue posting. Well, technically they can of course - but dupes will be detected and then also frozen.
We're soon gonna be blocking posting access to several sub-forums (including all game manufacturers forums) for all unverified accounts in the near future. And that should also make dupe/fake/troll account posting a lot harder (well, that's the idea at least).
Finally, please take it easy on the mods. You have no idea how much effort they put into helping me keeping this site running.
Thanks!

Great job. The verification aspect has already seemed to make a difference. With the additional blocks it should make it even better of a firewall against trolls. Nothing is going to be perfect, but it all helps.

#12859 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Question, as I can't remember, was there ever a point before the collapse where Kevin tried to work out a last minute deal with Fox?

I'm pretty sure his only communication with Fox was the C&D they sent him

#12860 2 years ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

I'm pretty sure his only communication with Fox was the C&D they sent him

That means Fox communicated with him though, I'm guessing he didn't choose to respond.

#12861 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

That means Fox communicated with him though, I'm guessing he didn't schoose to respond.

Heh heh, heh heh heh…you said schoose….

#12862 2 years ago

It pronounces the same...

-4
#12863 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Not a red herring. If he actually released the game and it sucked, it would potentially cause damage to their IP/trademark ("Wow, look at that shitty Predator pinball, I can't believe they let that get produced.. " etc). Even one copy can be enough to destroy. This is one of the main arguments rights lawyers make concerning counterfeit products. Although there was never a real Predator machine, shitty unlicensed games can hurt Fox's reputation.

You need to do some reading. You don't seem to understand what a red herring is...and then you follow it up with a slippery slope argument to back up your claim? Yikes man.....just yikes.

#12864 2 years ago

At least i can get a laugh from this pathetic twat crying to his mommy.

http://www.poetry.com/historical_poems/7544029

#12865 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Or weigh more than a duck?

No, no, no, it's if he weighs the same as a duck. That would mean he's made of wood, and wood floats, same as ducks and witches, proving he is also a witch.

It's science!

#12866 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

No, no, no, it's if he weighs the same as a duck. That would mean he's made of wood, and wood floats, same as ducks and witches, proving he is also a witch.
It's science!

Wasn't that one of the modes in Experts of Dangerous?

#12867 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

No, no, no, it's if he weighs the same as a duck. That would mean he's made of wood, and wood floats, same as ducks and witches, proving he is also a witch.
It's science!

...also Lizard People!

#12868 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

That would mean he's made of wood

Build a bridge out of him!

#12869 2 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

At least i can get a laugh from this pathetic twat crying to his mommy.

I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

#12870 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Question, as I can't remember, was there ever a point before the collapse where Kevin tried to work out a last minute deal with Fox?

There was a third party...highway I believe that attempted to negotiate a license on behalf of kevin but at that point the damage was done and it went nowhere. That's my best recollection.

#12871 2 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

At least i can get a laugh from this pathetic twat crying to his mommy.
http://www.poetry.com/historical_poems/7544029

lewl.gif

11
#12872 2 years ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

I'm pretty sure his only communication with Fox was the C&D they sent him

I left a voicemail with legal council at Fox. And believe it or not he returned my call. He told me that Kulek NEVER had any license and had never applied for license until he was caught. And, that he would never get any license. They just shot him down and said no way. Stop production and go away.

#12873 2 years ago

Since I didn't follow every day of this I'm a little mystified by the "run on the bank" comment. Did Kevin ever personally refund people prior to his scheme collapsing?

Because if people in this anonymous group were getting their money back via PayPal or chargebacks, etc... why would they care if others did the same in roughly the same time frame? It wouldn't affect them getting their refund would it?

Yeah I'm missing something obviously... so be gentle

#12874 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Yet.
They very well might not care. If this slowly burns out and the games stay underground with whomever has them now, maybe they continue to ignore. But, if this stays as noisy as it's been, even just in the pinball community, I think they take steps to get the games back and destroyed. The fact that dozens (or hundreds) of people lost good chunks of money is why I think this will eventually end with the destruction of the games. Some folks won't let it die til there's nothing left to beat.

They don't care at all.

I could make 6 Prometheus pinball machines, sell them, and the worst that would happen is I'd get a boilerplate C&D letter.

And even that letter would require somebody calling and tipping off Fox.

Remember Kevin had the Predator pinball on his website for years and Fox never had any idea until you know who dropped a dime on him.

-

A few pinball machines is just too small for Fox to waste time on.

That's why the license could not be secured by Roger for ScatB.

250 games X $20 per game license fee = $5000

Fox would probably lose money overseeing and accounting for such a small licensing.

6813_4 (resized).jpg

#12875 2 years ago

Love that expression. Dropped a dime!

#12876 2 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

It wouldn't affect them getting their refund would it?
Yeah I'm missing something obviously... so be gentle

You're not missing anything, you got it 100% correct. Really stimulates the neurons when you think about what WhySnow is saying about how they wanted to *allegedly* "teach the community a lesson," and how their handling of critical information doesn't make any logical sense outside of "fuck everyone else".

The whistleblowjobs are heroes, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

#12877 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Fox would probably lose money overseeing and accounting for such a small licensing.

How many Alien pinball machines are being built? (I haven't been following any of that, so I seriously don't know.)

#12878 2 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

The whistleblowjobs are heroes

Does anyone know who these guys/gals are? (And by "anyone," I mean anyone willing to PM me who they are.)

#12879 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A few pinball machines is just too small for Fox to waste time on.
That's why the license could not be secured by Roger for ScatB.
250 games X $20 per game license fee = $5000
Fox would probably lose money overseeing and accounting for such a small licensing.

Without a specially negotiated deal, such a big property would probably be more like $30k upfront foot-in-door fee and 5-15% of sales on top of that.. but still hardly worth their time on a limited run single project.

#12880 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I could make 6 Prometheus pinball machines, sell them, and the worst that would happen is I'd get a boilerplate C&D letter.

I'll take one, who wants the other 5.

When do you start production

#12881 2 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

I'll take one, who wants the other 5.
When do you start production

Not if it is anything like the smoking turd Predator was.

#12882 2 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Does anyone know who these guys/gals are? (And by "anyone," I mean anyone willing to PM me who they are.)

Uhm... doesn't just about everyone know who they are? It's not like when the shit hit it was a big secret. I'm not sure why the whole "AG" thing persists. Oh and for whomever asked, I recieved a refund pre dump, but I'm pretty sure Kevin and I were more friendly than most. I hesitate to post that I got a refund since in this crowd that might brand me a traitor or something, but whatever. Fuck it.

This whole thing is really shitty and makes me very sad and frustrated.

#12883 2 years ago

I'm sure I'll get thumbs down for this post. Wouldn't the refunds to AG be preferential payments under the BK? I'm no expert in personal BK but in a corporate bankruptcy the trustee can go back to vendors who got paid while other vendors are unpaid. Why wouldn't the trustee go back to AG to get their refunds back and spread them out over all the claimants?

#12884 2 years ago
Quoted from navajas:

It's not like when the shit hit it was a big secret.

Why not just come out and say it then?

#12885 2 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

I'll take one, who wants the other 5.
When do you start production?

Nowadays, I'm not sure the xenomorph abortion mode would still be legal.

I could ship you the game, but you might have a difficult time finding someone to perform the mod.

Prometheus (resized).png

#12886 2 years ago

As I mentioned many times ... the anonymous group did start the desaster after they saved their investment ... thats my opinion!!! I'm not sure if I would have the Predator (4 fully paid) today, but without their "betray" the chance to get them anytime did exist. After they started their mission it became unreal.

#12887 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmaniac:

I'm sure I'll get thumbs down for this post. Wouldn't the refunds to AG be preferential payments under the BK? I'm no expert in personal BK but in a corporate bankruptcy the trustee can go back to vendors who got paid while other vendors are unpaid. Why wouldn't the trustee go back to AG to get their refunds back and spread them out over all the claimants?

The reach-back period for preferential transfers to ordinary creditors (i.e., non-insiders) is 90 days prior to the date that the bankruptcy petition was filed, so any refunds received by the so-called Anonymous Group ("AG") were well outside of the reach-back period by the time Kulek filed Chapter 7.

The reach-back period for preferential transfers to "insiders" of a debtor (e.g., family member, partner) is 1 year pre-petition. For fraudulent conveyances, it is 2+ years.

#12888 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A few pinball machines is just too small for Fox to waste time on.

Not true all the time. I know people who have gotten a major license for a small run.

16
#12889 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Not true all the time. I know people who have gotten a major license for a small run.

I've gotten the major runs from this small non-license

#12890 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Not true all the time. I know people who have gotten a major license for a small run.

I hear what you are saying, but did it require the oversight of a pinball machine?

Someone at Fox has to approve the art, the sounds, the models, the animations, the callouts...........that's a lot of legwork for a run of 250 games.

#12891 2 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Why not just come out and say it then?

Beats me man. Predator put a bullet right through this hobby for me so I'm done. At a time in my life where all the sudden we've got more money than ever (back then Predator would have been an enormous sacrafice for me) I rarely even play on location anymore. Fucking sucks.

If the paradigm is we keep pretending we don't know who they are, I'm not going to rock the boat.

#12892 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I hear what you are saying, but did it require the oversight of a pinball machine?
Someone at Fox has to approve the art, the sounds, the models, the animations, the callouts...........that's a lot of legwork for a run of 250 games.

For as long as Alien has dragged on, FOX seems to be able to at least go through the motions. Rodger Sharpe has said that licenses don't cost very much per machine. There may be a minimum to the statement, but I think he was asked if it was $100 a game and he laughed it off saying that no game had ever been close to that.

#12893 2 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

There may be a minimum to the statement, but I think he was asked if it was $100 a game and he laughed it off saying that no game had ever been close to that.

As in that was to high or a number or that was too low of a number?

For whatever reason I remember hearing (and no idea where from, perhaps it was just Pinside rumor...) that AC/DC received $250 per machine plus an upfront amount. Again, could have just been some speculation that for whatever reason stuck in my brain as an incorrect fact.

#12894 2 years ago
Quoted from navajas:

Predator put a bullet right through this hobby for me so I'm done.

Well, certainly that sucks. I can certainly understand the reaction.

Quoted from navajas:

If the paradigm is we keep pretending we don't know who they are, I'm not going to rock the boat.

Maybe I am the only one on this thread that has no idea.

#12895 2 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

For as long as Alien has dragged on, FOX seems to be able to at least go through the motions. Rodger Sharpe has said that licenses don't cost very much per machine. There may be a minimum to the statement, but I think he was asked if it was $100 a game and he laughed it off saying that no game had ever been close to that.

Sharpe said last year that a top dollar license for a game was $20.

(WWE probably was $2, lol)

#12896 2 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Maybe I am the only one on this thread that has no idea.

You're not. I don't know. The mod team does not know. There were suspicions but frankly I think the conversation and situation has moved so far down stream now that it doesn't really matter.

At best, in my personal opinion, Kevin may have pumped out the first machines he had cabinets for and then (in my opinion) based on the enthusiasm the seven machines shipping would have generated he would have demanded everyone pay in in full (so he could buy the parts he needed in mass for cheap [would have been his claim]) and then wouldn't have delivered any other machines...more money would have been lost.

More money would have been lost but for anonymous...I understand the anger at them for not coming out earlier but some money was saved by them coming out at all (which they did not have to do). Is what it is.

#12897 2 years ago

Maybe for a large run, but I highly doubt a major license for 250 games could have been gotten for $20 a game. It wouldn't be worth the fox licensors time for 5K.

Quoted from vid1900:

Sharpe said last year that a top dollar license for a game was $20.
(WWE probably was $2, lol)

#12898 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

More money would have been lost but for anonymous...I understand the anger at them for not coming out earlier but some money was saved by them coming out at all (which they did not have to do). Is what it is.

Is anonymous closely related to Stern? I could see how the competition would want to crush a new company. That is business 101 right?

#12899 2 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Is anonymous closely related to Stern? I could see how the competition would want to crush a new company. That is business 101 right?

Gosh, that would be disappointing. I doubt they would have employees speak the way anonymous did.

Brings up a good point though, surely Stern new Fox did not license Predator before the rest of us did. Would have been nice for them to give us the heads up if they knew (though they wouldn't have been thanked for it at the time).

#12900 2 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Is anonymous closely related to Stern? I could see how the competition would want to crush a new company. That is business 101 right?

I heard it was Jpop. That douché

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