LOL! I thought i was kicked out of this thread so i threw in some random letters and hit send to test it.

i needed to buy a 'b' for the end, so snuck it in with a hyphen

ps. there were some fun arcade games at TFP last weekend.
seemed like less than last year, but i put some good game time on them.

It does !

Bring back some memories - Just realized that on the "Crew" page, Kathy Kulek was listed as "Legal and bookkeeping"...

Has anybody thought about calling Skit B's local news stations and giving them the details on a story happening in their own backyard. I would say if several people called, they would look into and maybe help out in some way. They could put pressure on local or state authorities to get something done. All it would take is a persistent reporter looking for a big story to take this over the top.

Not sure , but would this be it?:

http://archive.wzzm13.com/news/specials/13onyourside/

If the TV cams are in Kevin's face, all he is going to say is that under advice of legal counsel, he is unable to comment at this time.

This won't help. People have already started the legal process, there's nothing else that is going to expedite the situation. Here's a very likely outcome:
1. Lawsuits filed (already done or in process by some)
2. Lawsuit served. Kevin now has 30 days to file for bankruptcy. Standard procedure is to wait until the end of the 30 days.
3. Bankruptcy filed. Creditors (people who are owed money) MAY NOT CONTACT HIM TO COLLECT MONEY.
4. Kevin declares assets, and a meeting with creditors is scheduled. Creditors make their case for what they are owed. Judge decides who gets what. You will be surprised at what he gets to keep. Bankruptcy protects a lot. You'll get whatever money is left over, but little else.

To be clear, once he declares bankruptcy, if you show up at his doorstep, YOU are committing a crime.

I was talking more on the lines of an arrest for fraud. His local prosecutor might have a problem with someone in his county scamming people for over a million dollars. With a story on the local news, the community might want some answers and push the issue.

Anyone heard a peep out of the man in question since the generic email last week?

I'm personally of the feeling that if he indeed files bankruptcy that we push for fraud charges and he will never be welcome in another pin event. There's no way I'm cool with him robbing my funds by way of bankruptcy. This is absolutely fraud though, this guy took money for IP he didn't have the right to and never intended to get the rights to it.

I have just spoken to my bank as I paid through debit card and they say that paypal may be liable as a conduit of payment to Kevin. They too have duty of care.

So I ring paypal over here in UK. I give them a transaction number and they look into details of Skit B account...She was gone for a few minutes to read the notes attached to the account.and comes back with paypal are investigating this as it has media attention.

Kevin can contact Paypal and issue refunds!!! They have logged me as being someone who has contacted them for a refund and will tell kevin. Although she did say that Kevin was trying to rectify things which means either complaintents are sending emails from Kevin or they are reading Pinside/pinballnews!

I asked what if Kevin does not respond and she said that Paypal "may" bear the brunt of it and issue refunds to people. So my advice is everyone contact paypal with transaction details and put presure on them. They don't want this kind off attention the "paypal let a con artist con people and people did not get their money back" sorta thing.

If my commentary and anecdote on the world today gets me into legal trouble, we are totally f%^ked. The only theft that's going on is skitb if funds aren't returned.

Looking at the depressed area he lives in, I doubt many of his locals would have a lot of empathy for a bunch of "rich people that can afford to buy toys whose value is more than they make in 3 months"

So you think people who make 60k a year are poor and downtrodden?

Nope, I didn't say that.

I just don't think they'll give a shit about someone who ripped-off Mega-Billion dollar FOX or a bunch of people who can afford to collect $5K to $9K toys

I'm pretty sure the median income there is nowhere near 60k. I my rural northern Michigan county the median household income is $28,000.

Who gives a shit what the locals who aren't impacted by this think?
I just want my money back. No need for a local news story.

My,this is getting Nasty.

Doubt it would push the issue much, but may make some feel better about him getting publicly shamed in his hometown and it also lets someone here vent to someone not on the forum. Midland is part of the Tri-Cities (Saginaw and Bay City being the others), which are not very big (I lived in Saginaw for a year), but they do have local news stations and newspapers, who may well be looking for a more interesting story than announcing some guy getting promoted at work.

Just checked PinballNews.com for the latest story on Kevin. The latest article is "WHOA NELLIE! NEW PICTURES".

Just watched the Mortal Kombat x video. They have predator in it. Just thought it was cool.

Agreed.... I was responding to a suggestion a local news story would be helpful.

All the bickering is counter-productive and plays into "Kevin's Deceive & Delay" strategy.

The ONLY issue right now is getting peoples money back.

Everything else is silliness (ie should Kevin be welcome at future events, etc, etc).

I apologize for my part is tangential conversations.... I refuse to apologize for boobs however.

You almost gave me a heart attack. Since when is posting boob pics ever silly? *insert huge a** cigar here*

PM sent

So, the only way to get my money back at this point is to hire a lawyer? Or will the filing with the MI AG and local PD suffice for the time being?

Great! Everyone should know exactly what you did/said. Were you out of the time limit?

The most important thing to be gleaned from his post is the fact that he used American Express.

I'm completely confused as to why there is no new information since 9 days ago. Pinball News puts out an article scaring the hell out of pre-order folks and leaving a LOT of unanswered questions (and promising a follow-up in "a few days", no?) The anonymous group also has gone silent which seems to suggest they aren't concerned with keeping folks updated on the latest from what they know (can't they even use their contact at Fox to get an update on legal action if any?). Kevin promises a "swift" refund process as well as quick responses to email questions (in the "order they were received", lol.) But now Kevin apparently cares more about his own butt than he does about the folks who supported him for years. Way to man up Kevin.

I can only imagine how incredibly frustrating this must be for folks with money involved.

I do more than imagine.

Paypal is answering...
Kevin seems to...
Martin is...
Pinside is
The Anonymous Group is

As has been stated...this is now in the legal phase. There will be no more communication, at all, zilch, none. The forum posts, chatter, etc. is 100% over with. Information will only come out through legal proceedings.

Maybe we all should setup a photoshoot time with his wife so she can get a great group shot that they can frame and hang over their new mantle. That way their three kids can grow-up knowing who their real providers are instead of being lied to by their parents.

I have never seen any evidence of actual litigation being initiated. None. Even if this is in the "legal phase" there is no reason Pinball News cannot state as much (or the AG for that matter.) Assuming Kevin has stopped responding to all inquiries (again, disgusting if he is only looking out for his own butt now) there were still a lot of unanswered questions that needed to be followed up on. Assuming Kevin has a lawyer who is he and can folks not ask him for official responses in regards to the issuing of refunds or other general questions?

sticking head up briefly before going back into lurk mode...

when people are talking about "refunds" they got, they should make it clear whether they got a "refund", or their card issuer successfully processed a "chargeback"... they are two different things..

Agreed. Although, I'm pretty confident nobody has gotten an official "refund" from Kevin. I've only read of 2 reimbursements (one issued via PayPal and one issued via credit card company Amex.)

Both were CC chargebacks.

Ahh, okay. Just out of curiosity, in these situations, I assume the credit card company is issuing the refund from their own pockets? Does that mean they'll go after Kevin (or PayPal?) in order to get reimbursed themselves?

cool, just wanted to make sure people were differentiating... because a successful chargeback in no way implies that there is money in kevin's account...

yes... once the chargeback process is initiated and successful, the acquirer is on the hook for the funds... it is then up to the acquirer to get the funds from the merchant....

non-delivery of goods chargebacks are a daily occurrence... this is sop for credit card/merchant processing...

Right. The CC company will go to PayPal first to collect funds. If nothing is there, they will go to Kevin.

close...

the card issuer (the bank that issues you the card) isn't involved in the collection process... once a chargeback is successful, as far as they (and the cardholder) are concerned the transaction never occurred...

the group that "acquired" the transaction (in this case paypal, and i won't claim to know how they have their subsidiaries set up, but one of them is acting as the acquiring bank for the transaction) are the people who then have to go get the money from kevin...

key takeaway from the above... "chargebacks" happen regardless of whether the merchant has available funds or not... it is the "rules"...

Well, I just called my bank to dispute the charge since I paid with a Visa debit card.

Unfortunately, they told me that the second that they send this information to Kevin's bank, they will reject it as there's only a 60 day limit.

As a business owner, I can tell you parting the red sea is easier then successfully winning a chargeback dispute.

Congrats and thanks for sharing. I paid by American Express as well, so this is a good precedent for my case.

I assume you mean as a business owner trying to fight a chargeback. I've been successful on a rare occasion. It amazes me how fast the burden of proof moves to the business once the CC decides their customer has a legit complaint. Really pisses me off if they do a chargeback and never call us with the issue and give us a chance to resolve it.

If Kevin was an ongoing business, he would need to fight these. You get too many and you can lose your ability to take credit cards, then again, he is relying on paypal, so he has no direct connection with a CC/Bank or merchant processor, other than PayPal, which has obviously shut him down. Kevin would have had a hard time getting a regular merchant account give the nature of the business. Only a few companies take on high risk accounts like that, and typically the percentage/fees are significantly higher.

I'd think the main thing Kevin would be concerned about is all of the chargeback fees/penalties that Paypal is going to slap him with. That's yet more money he'll have to make up out of his pocket if he still plans to issue full refunds. Of course if he's headed for bankruptcy anyway it may not matter to him anymore.