(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#17301 1 year ago

Interesting..
What laywer uses a gmail account, and doesn't have their own named host set up? .. That puts faith in me.

#17302 1 year ago

There is a 16 minute audio clip on the PIORNAK II docket too, but my SoundCloud trial account is full... I'll leave it for WolfMarsh to post (probably just Keithinmi and Piornak II's attorney discussing the time table with Judge Opperman).

#17303 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Interesting..
What laywer uses a gmail account, and doesn't have their own named host set up? .. That puts faith in me.

Gmail is generally more versatile for day-to-day stuff.

On his website, he has an email address listed with the custom domain name: https://stopcreditor.com/about-kurt/

I would guess that it forwards to the gmail address. That's usually how I see things set up.

#17304 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

There is a 16 minute audio clip on the PIORNAK II docket too, but my SoundCloud trial account is full... I'll leave it for WolfMarsh to post (probably just Keithinmi and Piornak II's attorney discussing the time table with Judge Opperman).

I'll get this posted in just a bit, just wrapping up some work stuff.

#17305 1 year ago

Can we donate for a paid account?

#17307 1 year ago

So what is actually up with Kevin? He was in court every few weeks and not there hasn't been anything for months. Is he waiting on another date?

#17309 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Interesting..
What laywer uses a gmail account, and doesn't have their own named host set up? .. That puts faith in me.

Worse still, his lawyer's email appears to be koklaw@gmail.com. Is it really necessary to use one's initials as an advertisement that your law practice advocates exclusively for dicks?

Only in Pinconning, MI. . .

#17310 1 year ago

REVEALED!!!! The eight machines, the spare parts, Clay, his pals, the SECRET MEETING site and more....

No need to keep this under wraps whysnow; Just make a $100.00 donation in my name to pinside annually for the next five years. Time to make the heart red again. This time with the special+ sign. TIA

Good Morning PinCONning (resized).jpg

#17311 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBally:

....Clay, his pals, ....

p (resized).jpg

#17312 1 year ago

Now we know who the other short guy is in the pic besides me

#17313 1 year ago

Saw the new posts and was hoping that audio file was posted! Oh well, hopefully tomorrow.

-4
#17314 1 year ago

Oh snap, that a $500 bill whysnow. No more cable TV for the rest of the year for you.

#17315 1 year ago

Tell me where I can get cable tv for under $41/mo ($500 year)!

17
#17316 1 year ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Saw the new posts and was hoping that audio file was posted! Oh well, hopefully tomorrow.

Sorry, work is killing me right now.

Here is the latest audio for the PIORNAK II case: https://soundcloud.com/user-800669943/1ap2017-02013-20170907-140119

#17317 1 year ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Sorry, work is killing me right now.
Here is the latest audio for the PIORNAK II case: https://soundcloud.com/user-800669943/1ap2017-02013-20170907-140119

All good, Thanks very much for posting!

Cheers.

15
#17318 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBally:

REVEALED!!!! The eight machines, the spare parts, Clay, his pals, the SECRET MEETING site and more....
No need to keep this under wraps whysnow; Just make a $100.00 donation in my name to pinside annually for the next five years. Time to make the heart red again. This time with the special+ sign. TIA

Can we please stop trolling each other and stay on topic. It seems you get your jollys off giving Whysnow a hard time. It appears like he is trying to help get a resolution out of this whole ordeal and you just want to keep hounding him.

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Sorry, work is killing me right now.
Here is the latest audio for the PIORNAK II case: https://soundcloud.com/user-800669943/1ap2017-02013-20170907-140119

Thanks for your contributions to the thread! Much appreciated

#17319 1 year ago
Quoted from lancestorm:

Tell me where I can get cable tv for under $41/mo ($500 year)!

rest of the year would be $125/month

#17320 1 year ago

seems reasonable with the triple play package

#17321 1 year ago

Er.. off topic, but I pay about $25/mo for basic cable (that's the cost above what my internet through the same company costs). I have 0 equipment costs, which is usually where they get you. You can get an HD Homerun and run the signal through your devices (android, PC, xbox, etc). It's worth looking into as an alternative to things like Sling if you're a sports fan.

#17322 1 year ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

Can we please stop trolling each other and stay on topic. It seems you get your jollys off giving Whysnow a hard time. It appears like he is trying to help get a resolution out of this whole ordeal and you just want to keep hounding him.

This below is a real trolling post. It directly bashes and appears as an attempt to viciously harm a fellow pinsider. It is also a COMPLETE LIE.

Quoted from Whysnow:

fair point. If that is the case then he should have just done the right thing, taken down all the info of the guy that had the parts, told him no thanks and that he did not want to touch the game with a 30ft pole as it was caustic, and then turned over the info to the lawyers/police/discovery team.
He made a willful choice to acquire the parts, 'build' a machine, and knew he was doing so with the very parts paid for by people screwed over in the whole thing. I personally think he paid for the parts and that money went back to Kevin either directly or indirectly, but that is just my opinon based on Clay's history and nature.
I was a big supporter of Clay and his whole thing up till this stage. After pulling this BS, then I flipped the switch on my opinion of him. Hence why I am happy to pay for evidence of the game in his possession. I have to think that there will be someone happy to make some quick cash and also sees the wrong in what he has done so they will be happy to toss him under the bus.

#17323 1 year ago
Quoted from Deaconblooze:

Er.. off topic, but I pay about $25/mo for basic cable (that's the cost above what my internet through the same company costs). I have 0 equipment costs, which is usually where they get you. You can get an HD Homerun and run the signal through your devices (android, PC, xbox, etc). It's worth looking into as an alternative to things like Sling if you're a sports fan.

I pay 15 a month (25/month over internet - $10 cable card credit) for using my own cable card device (Tivo). 1TB DVR with tv's in every room. Equipment charges would be about 60/month otherwise between the dvr fee and the per outlet fees. Buying equipment is expensive up front and kind of a PIA to initially setup (cable company road blocks) but long term saves a ton because that is where they get you.

Sorry... carry on.

#17324 1 year ago

$500 - the way this is going someone will be on welfare soon.

IMG_56461 (resized).png

#17325 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBally:

This below is a real trolling post. It directly bashes and appears as an attempt to viciously harm a fellow pinsider. It is also a COMPLETE LIE.

that is neither trolling nore a lie.

Mr Bally you have been abundantly clear with your motives. Heck, the posts were deleted but you tried to claim that Kevin had gone crazy and was in California and about to jump off a crane. It appeared you did this for the sole reason to try and provide additional fodder for the SkitB team in court and their claims of personal attacks on an adult website.

I wish no viscious harm on Clay. I merely would like evidence of the predator machine he has in his possession. I am pretty sure he will let someone lplay it that is willing to snap a stealth photo of it. I will pay cash for that evidence. It really is pretty simple.

#17326 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Mr Bally you have been abundantly clear with your motives. Heck, the posts were deleted but you tried to claim that Kevin had gone crazy and was in California and about to jump off a crane.

I thought he was supposed to be permanently banned because of that?

Quoted from Whysnow:

It appeared you did this for the sole reason to try and provide additional fodder for the SkitB team in court and their claims of personal attacks on an adult website.

"It appeared"? Where did this 'appear'?

#17327 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

that is neither trolling nore a lie.
Mr Bally you have been abundantly clear with your motives. Heck, the posts were deleted but you tried to claim that Kevin had gone crazy and was in California and about to jump off a crane. It appeared you did this for the sole reason to try and provide additional fodder for the SkitB team in court and their claims of personal attacks on an adult website.
I wish no viscious harm on Clay. I merely would like evidence of the predator machine he has in his possession. I am pretty sure he will let someone lplay it that is willing to snap a stealth photo of it. I will pay cash for that evidence. It really is pretty simple.

Your missing the point. Your dragging a pinsider (Clay) through the mud with a bunch of wild accusations you can't prove. You admit you can't prove it by asking for photographic evidence. Ok let me try. Whysnow your grandfather shot JFK. A bunch of people told me, so it must be true. I'll pay $1,000,00 dollars to anyone who can get me a picture of Whysnow's grandfather at the grassy knoll with his rifle. You can remain anonymous, remember I will pay cash for that evidence. It really is pretty simple.

#17328 1 year ago
Quoted from tslayer71:

Your missing the point. Your dragging a pinsider (Clay) through the mud with a bunch of wild accusations you can't prove.

What are you talking about?

Clay has made it very clear he does not have a "Kevin built predator"
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion?tu=cfh

Based on his own words and those of numerous MI based people that told me and others about it from the start, he does have a predator machine, even if it is a 'Clay built predator' . This is not dragging him through the mud. He made his own choice to acquire the parts to build the game and then brag on here about all the knowledge it would take and the hurdles to overcome.

This is not some wild conjecture or some sort of acusation Talyor. Just go read Clays words and tell me you come up with something different from his public statements here... Keep in mind that I asked Clay about it 2 years ago at VFW after talking with a few of his club members that were willing to confirm the (up till then) rumors, and his reaction was crystal clear. It was only after being called out that he started to talk about it.

I dont see anything wrong with offering up a $500 reward for the evidence to prove he has a Predator in any state of assembly. I really dont care whom built the game as it makes no difference to me at this stage. All that matters is someone took it upon themselves to benefit off the money spent by pre-order buyers so they could have their own game.
Photo to prove even the parts are in his possession it is good enough. If he does not have it, then the photo never surfaces... If he does, then it will eventually happen.

I am guessing at some point Clay will brag to the wrong person or show it off and they will be happy to snag a free $500 for the efforts of snapping a photo.

Over 175 people that spent money and got screwed in this and lots of friends of those people. All it takes is one good person in the small community that wants to help out. My hope is that the $500 is enough incentive for them to do so.

-2
#17329 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

What are you talking about?
Clay has made it very clear he does not have a "Kevin built predator"
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion?tu=cfh
Based on his own words and those of numerous MI based people that told me and others about it from the start, he does have a predator machine, even if it is a 'Clay built predator' . This is not dragging him through the mud. He made his own choice to acquire the parts to build the game and then brag on here about all the knowledge it would take and the hurdles to overcome.
This is not some wild conjecture or some sort of acusation Talyor. Just go read Clays words and tell me you come up with something different from his public statements here... Keep in mind that I asked Clay about it 2 years ago at VFW after talking with a few of his club members that were willing to confirm the (up till then) rumors, and his reaction was crystal clear. It was only after being called out that he started to talk about it.
I dont see anything wrong with offering up a $500 reward for the evidence to prove he has a Predator in any state of assembly. I really dont care whom built the game as it makes no difference to me at this stage. All that matters is someone took it upon themselves to benefit off the money spent by pre-order buyers so they could have their own game.
Photo to prove even the parts are in his possession it is good enough. If he does not have it, then the photo never surfaces... If he does, then it will eventually happen.
I am guessing at some point Clay will brag to the wrong person or show it off and they will be happy to snag a free $500 for the efforts of snapping a photo.
Over 175 people that spent money and got screwed in this and lots of friends of those people. All it takes is one good person in the small community that wants to help out. My hope is that the $500 is enough incentive for them to do so.

My names not Taylor Hilton - nice try. Seems like your trying to advert everyone's attention to MI. Hey didn't tons of people stay in on Predator because of you. This caused them to loss tens of thousands of dollars. This is part of the predator fiasco, maybe we should talk about that. Guess it's not as exciting as you offering $500 for a picture you'll never get huh?

#17330 1 year ago
Quoted from tslayer71:

My names not Taylor

sorry, meant Tslayer just cant type

Quoted from tslayer71:

maybe we should talk about that.

pretty sure it has been talked about plenty. I can rehash it for you again if you like.
In short, yes I supported SkitB and was a big proponet of them back in the day. I am sure people stayed in on things when they possibly would have been able to get a refund, but elected to hold the course because of my support. We all make decisions and I have appollogized repeatedly for that influnce. Some people I have appologized to specifically and directly. Others it has been a general appology. Did I hurt you also Tslayer? If so, I am sorry my influence caused you to stay in and lose money.

I have promised to fight even harder to go after every single person that has taken advantage of the collective pool of pre-order people and that includes Tim Fife and Clay Harrell and anyone else that has Predator machines or parts that were ill gotten.

I have been a big push behind the civil suit from the start and have/will continue to put plenty of time and money towards making sure all people even remotely affiliated with Skit-B/ Predator/ the people helping to try help that team along the way pay for the damages. While we may never see the actual dollars, they will take it in pain of endless court proceedings and time wasted at minimum.

Keep in mind that the civil suits are what pushed the bankruptcy. The bankruptcy has in turn allowed for plenty of discovery and clawing back of funds. The bankruptcy has also prevented many of the funds from being forgivable, meaning they will follow the SkitB team for life. I have to assume that things found out during the bankruptcy (like hiding funds from the government or not paying any taxes) will result in even more issues down the road for team SkitB.

15
#17331 1 year ago

It's pretty obvious in this thread who are friends with the Kuleks.

#17332 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

It's pretty obvious in this thread who are friends with the Kuleks.

It sure as hell is.

21
#17333 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

It's pretty obvious in this thread who are friends with the Kuleks.

Quoted from Mike_J:

It sure as hell is.

I think what you're actually doing is confusing giving hilton some shit with being kevin's buddy.
I can assure you, you don't have to know Kevin is order to get sick of Hilton.

#17334 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

It's pretty obvious in this thread who are friends with the Kuleks.

Maybe I'm slow but it's not obvious to me -- I would be surprised if any friends of Kevin's are still posting here, I thought they'd all evaporated form Pinside years back and are now heard from only at deposition.

#17335 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Based on his own words and those of numerous MI based people that told me and others about it from the start, he does have a predator machine, even if it is a 'Clay built predator' .

It seems Clay is stating what most people who have been following this saga already know. Kevin built two machines. There are enough cabinets, playfields, backglasses, diverters and skull/backbones out there to make eight more machines. Ramps will need to be fabricated. Remaining parts are off the shelf.

If someone has the requisite parts it will be difficult to build a machine but Clay expects they will get built eventually.

Clay may have the parts and may be building a machine but he does not claim that in the posts you referenced.

If so, he is one of eight. What about the other seven?

I think I would rather see the games built than sitting as a few random parts gathering dust.

#17336 1 year ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I think I would rather see the games built than sitting as a few random parts gathering dust.

I'd prefer a bonfire over seeing another one of those turds created.

#17337 1 year ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I think I would rather see the games built than sitting as a few random parts gathering dust.

I would also, but NOT the way Clay has gone about it.

Quoted from Jvspin:

It seems Clay is stating what most people who have been following this saga already know.

oddly, many of the active MI posters in this thread have seen Clay's Predator yet none of them will say it publicly here. Clay was pointing out the features required to build a game as a way to set up the storyline of how he got a machine. I was originally told by a few active MI people that he had purchased a built game from Kevin. It seemed Clay thought it was better perception if he "built" a game, hence all the talk about "Kevin" built. Reality is that nobody really cares if you build the game yourself or bought it from Kevin directly. In both cases you have the parts that were paid for and developed with pre-order money.

How about some truthful answers from the active MI crew... "Have you seen or played any Predator pinball games or parts in Clay's possession?" Where else have you seen them?

Any of you active shit givers care to answer that truthfully?

14
#17338 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

How about some truthful answers from the active MI crew... "Have you seen or played any Predator pinball games or parts in Clay's possession?"

The problem is, not many people would like to help you because you're such a character. This is the reason why you started peppering all your posts with "for the community" because it takes the taint (ha) off of you specifically.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Heck, the posts were deleted but you tried to claim that Kevin had gone crazy and was in California and about to jump off a crane. It appeared you did this for the sole reason to try and provide additional fodder for the SkitB team in court and their claims of personal attacks on an adult website.

This is the kind of shit that makes people wonder. I mean obviously it was a joke, but you've twisted it into something to help the legal defense of Kevin? Beyond laughable.
I understand you feel a lot of responsibility for shaming people into keeping their monies in this and you're doing everything you can to make up for it, can't blame you there, but not gonna help you either.

12
#17339 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

How about some truthful answers from the active MI crew...

I'm in Michigan, and getting pretty sick of seeing you phrase things this way.
I have never seen ANY Predator pinball machine in my life, and do not know where any are.
If you want to accuse people, do it directly and leave the rest of us out of it.

#17340 1 year ago
Quoted from RCA1:

I have never seen ANY Predator pinball machine in my life...

Lucky you, that thing was a piece of shit.

32
#17341 1 year ago

As the administrator of a pinball museum, we look at one-off games and how they are made. Unfortunately there's only TWO predators that exist (Kevin's and Tim Fife's) that we know about. Though the location of Kevin's is unknown, Tim only lives about 20 miles from us. I have personally seen his machine, and inventoried and photographed it. The problem is, there's some things that prohibit making one of these, at least easily...

CUSTOM PARTS.
Playfield. Rumor is there's 10 out there. One is in kevin's machine, one in Tim's. That leaves 8. At least that's the rumor...

Plastic toys. Kevin actually had made 200 (or 250) of the plastic toy sets from Back Street Alley. They were made and paid for. They are out there. There's some people that have them as gag toys, because what good are they? No games to put them on... Kevin gave them to his friends/employees because they have no value at this point. also if you didn't have them, no big deal, as they are just cosmetic stuff. do not effect game play.

Flat plastics. make your own, nothing fancy here, has repeating foliage design on them, pretty easy to make design in photoshop.

Ramps. Biggest stoppage. They are custom and would have to be made from scratch. Expensive, time consuming...

Metal lane guides. pretty easy to make your own. vid has a nice explanation of this on pinside.

Wiring harness. custom hand made, point to point, very time consuming.

Software. Could be gotten from Tim's machine. But of course, he would have to allow that to happen... A major stop point, unless written from scratch using Kevin's rules, or Tim is willing to let you make a copy.

COMMON PARTS.
Pretty much everything else!
Here's a list of what we guess is needed, from what is seen on Tim Fife's game.
----------
Sega/Stern or PinLife 4-ball trough assembly: PL homebrew 4 ball. PBL-100-0015-00

Sega Apron: Pinball life plastic apron. part 545-5995-02

Pop Bumpers. Three needed. DE pop assemblies w/ 26-1200 coil. part 500-5227-00 pinball life

Slingshotss. Two needed. DE sling assemblies w/ 26-1200 coil. part 500-5849-00 pinball life

Left Eject assembly. This is a bit tricky, but standard Stern/williams parts. It's a kickback used in stern games.
535-6730-00 Stern (marco)
A-17767 williams (marco)
26-1200 coil (pinball life)

Right eject assembly. Scoop Weldment Assembly from pinball life PBL-100-0034-00

Center standup targets, 2 targets, pbl_B-12001-1

Left Diverter Assembly (AKA Flipper assembly).
Used for the left diverter. These are standard williams right hand flipper assembly with low power coil.
pbl A-15205-L-2

VUK assembly. More stern/williams parts. This is what i have found could be used...
535-9590-02 (marco)
515-7701-00 (marco)
AE-26-800 coil (pinball life)

Disappearing Post: pinball life pbl_A-17932

VUK weldment wireform. Looks like from Demo man! Part Number: 12-7166B (marco)

Diverter Arm. Perhaps from twilight zone! Part Number: A-16316 (marco)

Shooter lane auto launch assembly. Pinball Life #a-21553

Flippers. Standard WPC style from Pinball life: pbl_A-15205-R-2_A-15205-L-2

MISC STUFF....
Cabinet (game base on Johnny Mnemonic cabinet aka standard williams wpc cab.)
cabinet graphics (black cabinet with red lettering, easy to make in photoshop)
backglass. Scan back cover of the blue ray DVD for the movie
flipper bats (williams pinball life)
lane guides (williams pinball life)
Speakers (pinball life)
Backbox latch (pinball life)
Playfield glass rear channel (pinball life)
IDC lamp socket/bracket (pinball life)
Stern PF slide brackets (pinball life)
Siderail carriage bolts (pinball life)
Speaker panel H channel (pinball life)
plastic posts (pinball life)
metal posts (all kinds and varieties, pinball life)
Nuts and Bolts
Pop bumper cap screws
Pop bumper rod washers
Ramp wood screws
Micro switch mounting screw 2-56 x 7/16"

LED Playfield Lights 555 style from CoinTaker
LED flasher bulbs 906/89 style from cointaker

Long UV Lights (along sides of playfield). This is tricky as needs to be bright.
Cold Cathode fluorescent light, UV color (blacklight), 600mm (24 inches.)
http://www.elwirepros.com/single-24in-ccfl-computer-k24.html

Short UV Lights (long lower ball arch)
Cold Cathode fluorescent light, UV color (blacklight), 150mm (6 inches.)
http://www.elwirepros.com/6in-comp-ki6.html

COMPUTER AND BOARDS NEEDED.
Computer. Kevin use an old HP computer. Don't think anything too powerful needed. Running Windows7

P-ROC
Standard Proc CPU board (not proc3.)
PD-16 driver master pd-16m
PD-16 slave board pd-16
PD-8x8 Lamp matrix board pd-8x8

Misc ribbon cables

DMD
use a standard 5 volt LED DMD. or a plasma DMD with a small DMD power supply (more expensive but this is what was originally called for.)

Power supplies:
5vdc / 12vdc power supply
Lamp matrix power supply. Need 18 volts for lamp matrix.
Coil power. need 50 volt supply for coils.
General illumination power supply. use a 6 volt power brick.
Smart power strip: used for power distribution

Of course there's tons of other things needed too. Like buttons, coin door, wood back playfield panel, etc etc. Probably a lot more than i can think of right now...
====================

But the point is this. This game is not a difficult build from a parts perspective, aside from the custom stuff listed at the top of this post. Could most people do this? probably not, but given the time, could be done! After all, Kevin did it twice!! It would take a lot of time and knowledge. And you still have some issues with software and ramps and playfield that are difficult to overcome, but not impossible. If you had a playfield though, that would get you into the ball park, as it's a good starting point (after all you have to have something to bolt the parts too!)

#17342 1 year ago

So where did the finished cabinets go?

-4
#17343 1 year ago
Quoted from cfh:

As the administrator of a pinball museum, we look at one-off games and how they are made. Unfortunately there's only TWO predators that exist (Kevin's and Tim Fife's) that we know about. Though the location of Kevin's is unknown, Tim only lives about 20 miles from us. I have personally seen his machine, and inventoried and photographed it. The problem is, there's some things that prohibit making one of these, at least easily...
CUSTOM PARTS.
Playfield. Rumor is there's 10 out there. One is in kevin's machine, one in Tim's. That leaves 8. At least that's the rumor...
Plastic toys. Kevin actually had made 200 (or 250) of the plastic toy sets from Back Street Alley. They were made and paid for. They are out there. There's some people that have them as gag toys, because what good are they? No games to put them on... Kevin gave them to his friends/employees because they have no value at this point. also if you didn't have them, no big deal, as they are just cosmetic stuff. do not effect game play.
Flat plastics. make your own, nothing fancy here, has repeating foliage design on them, pretty easy to make design in photoshop.
Ramps. Biggest stoppage. They are custom and would have to be made from scratch. Expensive, time consuming...
Metal lane guides. pretty easy to make your own. vid has a nice explanation of this on pinside.
Wiring harness. custom hand made, point to point, very time consuming.
Software. Could be gotten from Tim's machine. But of course, he would have to allow that to happen... A major stop point, unless written from scratch using Kevin's rules, or Tim is willing to let you make a copy.
COMMON PARTS.
Pretty much everything else!
Here's a list of what we guess is needed, from what is seen on Tim Fife's game.
----------
Sega/Stern or PinLife 4-ball trough assembly: PL homebrew 4 ball. PBL-100-0015-00
Sega Apron: Pinball life plastic apron. part 545-5995-02
Pop Bumpers. Three needed. DE pop assemblies w/ 26-1200 coil. part 500-5227-00 pinball life
Slingshotss. Two needed. DE sling assemblies w/ 26-1200 coil. part 500-5849-00 pinball life
Left Eject assembly. This is a bit tricky, but standard Stern/williams parts. It's a kickback used in stern games.
535-6730-00 Stern (marco)
A-17767 williams (marco)
26-1200 coil (pinball life)
Right eject assembly. Scoop Weldment Assembly from pinball life PBL-100-0034-00
Center standup targets, 2 targets, pbl_B-12001-1
Left Diverter Assembly (AKA Flipper assembly).
Used for the left diverter. These are standard williams right hand flipper assembly with low power coil.
pbl A-15205-L-2
VUK assembly. More stern/williams parts. This is what i have found could be used...
535-9590-02 (marco)
515-7701-00 (marco)
AE-26-800 coil (pinball life)
Disappearing Post: pinball life pbl_A-17932
VUK weldment wireform. Looks like from Demo man! Part Number: 12-7166B (marco)
Diverter Arm. Perhaps from twilight zone! Part Number: A-16316 (marco)
Shooter lane auto launch assembly. Pinball Life #a-21553
Flippers. Standard WPC style from Pinball life: pbl_A-15205-R-2_A-15205-L-2
MISC STUFF....
Cabinet (game base on Johnny Mnemonic cabinet aka standard williams wpc cab.)
cabinet graphics (black cabinet with red lettering, easy to make in photoshop)
backglass. Scan back cover of the blue ray DVD for the movie
flipper bats (williams pinball life)
lane guides (williams pinball life)
Speakers (pinball life)
Backbox latch (pinball life)
Playfield glass rear channel (pinball life)
IDC lamp socket/bracket (pinball life)
Stern PF slide brackets (pinball life)
Siderail carriage bolts (pinball life)
Speaker panel H channel (pinball life)
plastic posts (pinball life)
metal posts (all kinds and varieties, pinball life)
Nuts and Bolts
Pop bumper cap screws
Pop bumper rod washers
Ramp wood screws
Micro switch mounting screw 2-56 x 7/16"
LED Playfield Lights 555 style from CoinTaker
LED flasher bulbs 906/89 style from cointaker
Long UV Lights (along sides of playfield). This is tricky as needs to be bright.
Cold Cathode fluorescent light, UV color (blacklight), 600mm (24 inches.)
http://www.elwirepros.com/single-24in-ccfl-computer-k24.html
Short UV Lights (long lower ball arch)
Cold Cathode fluorescent light, UV color (blacklight), 150mm (6 inches.)
http://www.elwirepros.com/6in-comp-ki6.html
COMPUTER AND BOARDS NEEDED.
Computer. Kevin use an old HP computer. Don't think anything too powerful needed. Running Windows7
P-ROC
Standard Proc CPU board (not proc3.)
PD-16 driver master pd-16m
PD-16 slave board pd-16
PD-8x8 Lamp matrix board pd-8x8
Misc ribbon cables
DMD
use a standard 5 volt LED DMD. or a plasma DMD with a small DMD power supply (more expensive but this is what was originally called for.)
Power supplies:
5vdc / 12vdc power supply
Lamp matrix power supply. Need 18 volts for lamp matrix.
Coil power. need 50 volt supply for coils.
General illumination power supply. use a 6 volt power brick.
Smart power strip: used for power distribution
Of course there's tons of other things needed too. Like buttons, coin door, wood back playfield panel, etc etc. Probably a lot more than i can think of right now...
====================
But the point is this. This game is not a difficult build from a parts perspective, aside from the custom stuff listed at the top of this post. Could most people do this? probably not, but given the time, could be done! After all, Kevin did it twice!! It would take a lot of time and knowledge. And you still have some issues with software and ramps and playfield that are difficult to overcome, but not impossible. If you had a playfield though, that would get you into the ball park, as it's a good starting point (after all you have to have something to bolt the parts too!)

post is useless without photos

15
#17344 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

How about some truthful answers from the active MI crew... "Have you seen or played any Predator pinball games or parts in Clay's possession?" Where else have you seen them?
Any of you active shit givers care to answer that truthfully?

My 2 cents: You're getting off course here dude. The hounding of Clay is a ridiculous side show full of nothing but hearsay and conjecture. Sleuth on Kevin, not some dude who's a legit asset to the hobby.

-21
#17345 1 year ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

My 2 cents: You're getting off course here dude. The hounding of Clay is a ridiculous side show full of nothing but hearsay and conjecture. Sleuth on Kevin, not some dude who's a legit asset to the hobby.

I appreciate the opinion, but anyone that has assets of the pre-order buyers is worth sleuthing. I dont care if it is only a couple thousand dollars worth of parts, those are still potentially recoverable funds for pre-order people and frankly should not be in the hands of anyone but the trustee at this point. Anyone that supported Kevin after the shit hit the fan and willingly aided in getting him more money and taking advantage of all the pre-order people by buying up parts or games is a pretty shitty person IMHO.

Granted Clay could answer it very clearly but stating he does not nor has ever been in possession of a Predator playfield or any predator parts. Those game specific things are obviously the limiting factor to this and also the most valuable assets that remain of the physical 10 potential builds. If Clay was a legit asset to the hobby then he would have provided info to help recover assets for the others in the community, period.

16
#17347 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I appreciate the opinion, but anyone that has assets of the pre-order buyers is worth sleuthing. I dont care if it is only a couple thousand dollars worth of parts, those are still potentially recoverable funds for pre-order people and frankly should not be in the hands of anyone but the trustee at this point. Anyone that supported Kevin after the shit hit the fan and willingly aided in getting him more money and taking advantage of all the pre-order people by buying up parts or games is a pretty shitty person IMHO.

are you including yourself with that statement? I believe that you were the "no. 1" kevin cheerleader the whole time that the project was alive (and well after it began to sink) all the while convincing quite a few people to "keep the faith" and not request refunds. if I also recall, you make it very clear that you and kevin were such [bestest friends] that he offered to fulfill your purchase and you repeatedly turned it down (your words).

I didn't stay at a holiday inn express last night, but I'm sorry both of those actions are not those of someone whom I would consider [the sharpest tool in the shed]

what I really don't understand what purpose would proof of a single existing playfield serves? even if you put a value of $400 or $600 on it, you're looking at a less than 1/10% of the $500K+ that kevin took

it's more than painfully obvious that none of the people that pre-ordered (in part or full) are going to get anything from this whole debacle (even that free pizza as previously mentioned). like many class action suits, the only people that are going to end up taking home anything are the lawyers

#17348 1 year ago
Quoted from cfh:

There are two predators in existence. The one that Kevin was hauling to the show. And the other one Tim has. There are no other complete games or even close to complete games. There are some parts out there but that's about it. There is a chance that up to five predators could be made. But there are more major assemblies that are not available. The biggest block on the whole thing is the ramps. There was only two sets ever made and one is in Tim's game and the other one is in the original black predator. There's no others. So at this point in time there are no predators that can even exist, because there simply aren't enough parts to make one.
You also need software too. It's not like that's readily available either. And Milton stop lying about stuff. You don't know anything.

Quoted from cfh:

Milton I must stutter. There's only two predators. One is Tim's and the other one is The one Kevin has the proto. There's no others. Tim's game is not available to me or anyone else. I don't know Tim at all and I have no access to his machine. He lives close by to me but I do not know Tim. And even if I did I suspect he would let me anywhere near his machine. Predator is a sore spot for him as demonstrated by the gang raping he took here.

Quoted from cfh:

That video is of Predator #1 (the black prototype game) which Kevin took to all the shows. Recorded at the Sharks Club in Howell Michigan during 2014 (Sharks club is no longer, now Block brewery.) It is running old software (no comma in the scores). This is not the one and only "official production" machine (predator #2, Tim's machine.) Note also that the RGB LED modes don't seem to be implement (an "extra option"). Can not tell if it has a shaker motor either (again another "extra option".) or laser pointer. Predator #2 didn't even exist at this time. And If you listen you can hear Kevin narrating the video.

Quoted from cfh:

There are no other ones, just #1 black prototype and #2 which is Tim's. Those are the only ones Kevin made.

Quoted from cfh:

Milton like usual you are just wrong. and when you figure it out, i expect a public apology.
As told there's only two kevin made predators: The #1 black prototype, and the #2 tim "official release" model. Kevin never made any more than that. The #2 showed us what the game was capable of looking like in its finished form, and what could have been.

Quoted from cfh:

For the hundredth time Kevin only made two predators. The black Proto #1, and Tim's number two. There are not any others. There is a white wood play field somewhere out there, but it existed in the same black cabinet that has a production playfield in it now. A total of 10 production playfields and plastic sets were made. Kevin does not have any of them anymore. So there are people out there with playfields that could possibly make their own version of the predator, up to eight of them. This is yet to be seen though. But at some point I'm sure it will happen. I don't expect all eight to be made, but it is possible.
But I'm done here. Many are not interested in hearing anything about what's really going on, you're only interested in carrying pitchforks and perpetuating lies and other sorts of BS. Wow, because it doesn't seem any different than what you accuse Kevin of doing.
To the make matters worse, the moderators here aren't helping at all either. If anybody has a difference of opinion then the mob who is caring pitchforks, you guys thrown them out. Of course I'm talking about Tim. He provided some insight, which of course was different than what other people are saying, but it was very relevant and was not mean-spirited in any way.
I run into Kevin now and then as his lawyer is just a few miles from where I live, and Kevin likes to go to arcade type hang outs that I also visit. So I get some different insight and different points of view on what's happening. But I'm frankly just not interested in sharing them here anymore. Many seem more interested in twisting lies and talking crap then you are about finding out what is really true.
You can have a poison pill and swallow it, but that doesn't mean it's going to hurt Kevin. It just means you're going to hurt yourself. All this ill will towards Kevin, though understandable to a point, is not good for anyone, especially yourselves. Frankly I think many are more mad at themsves then Kevin. But I am no longer interested in participating in this therapy session here. Especially since many are not interested in facts, only interested in carrying pitchforks. I thought this would be a good place to discuss things, but apparently that's just not the case.

Quoted from cfh:

As the administrator of a pinball museum, we look at one-off games and how they are made. Unfortunately there's only TWO predators that exist (Kevin's and Tim Fife's) that we know about. Though the location of Kevin's is unknown, Tim only lives about 20 miles from us. I have personally seen his machine, and inventoried and photographed it. The problem is, there's some things that prohibit making one of these, at least easily...
CUSTOM PARTS.
Playfield. Rumor is there's 10 out there. One is in kevin's machine, one in Tim's. That leaves 8. At least that's the rumor...
Plastic toys. Kevin actually had made 200 (or 250) of the plastic toy sets from Back Street Alley. They were made and paid for. They are out there. There's some people that have them as gag toys, because what good are they? No games to put them on... Kevin gave them to his friends/employees because they have no value at this point. also if you didn't have them, no big deal, as they are just cosmetic stuff. do not effect game play.
Flat plastics. make your own, nothing fancy here, has repeating foliage design on them, pretty easy to make design in photoshop.
Ramps. Biggest stoppage. They are custom and would have to be made from scratch. Expensive, time consuming...
Metal lane guides. pretty easy to make your own. vid has a nice explanation of this on pinside.
Wiring harness. custom hand made, point to point, very time consuming.
Software. Could be gotten from Tim's machine. But of course, he would have to allow that to happen... A major stop point, unless written from scratch using Kevin's rules, or Tim is willing to let you make a copy.
COMMON PARTS.
Pretty much everything else!
Here's a list of what we guess is needed, from what is seen on Tim Fife's game.
----------
Sega/Stern or PinLife 4-ball trough assembly: PL homebrew 4 ball. PBL-100-0015-00
Sega Apron: Pinball life plastic apron. part 545-5995-02
Pop Bumpers. Three needed. DE pop assemblies w/ 26-1200 coil. part 500-5227-00 pinball life
Slingshotss. Two needed. DE sling assemblies w/ 26-1200 coil. part 500-5849-00 pinball life
Left Eject assembly. This is a bit tricky, but standard Stern/williams parts. It's a kickback used in stern games.
535-6730-00 Stern (marco)
A-17767 williams (marco)
26-1200 coil (pinball life)
Right eject assembly. Scoop Weldment Assembly from pinball life PBL-100-0034-00
Center standup targets, 2 targets, pbl_B-12001-1
Left Diverter Assembly (AKA Flipper assembly).
Used for the left diverter. These are standard williams right hand flipper assembly with low power coil.
pbl A-15205-L-2
VUK assembly. More stern/williams parts. This is what i have found could be used...
535-9590-02 (marco)
515-7701-00 (marco)
AE-26-800 coil (pinball life)
Disappearing Post: pinball life pbl_A-17932
VUK weldment wireform. Looks like from Demo man! Part Number: 12-7166B (marco)
Diverter Arm. Perhaps from twilight zone! Part Number: A-16316 (marco)
Shooter lane auto launch assembly. Pinball Life #a-21553
Flippers. Standard WPC style from Pinball life: pbl_A-15205-R-2_A-15205-L-2
MISC STUFF....
Cabinet (game base on Johnny Mnemonic cabinet aka standard williams wpc cab.)
cabinet graphics (black cabinet with red lettering, easy to make in photoshop)
backglass. Scan back cover of the blue ray DVD for the movie
flipper bats (williams pinball life)
lane guides (williams pinball life)
Speakers (pinball life)
Backbox latch (pinball life)
Playfield glass rear channel (pinball life)
IDC lamp socket/bracket (pinball life)
Stern PF slide brackets (pinball life)
Siderail carriage bolts (pinball life)
Speaker panel H channel (pinball life)
plastic posts (pinball life)
metal posts (all kinds and varieties, pinball life)
Nuts and Bolts
Pop bumper cap screws
Pop bumper rod washers
Ramp wood screws
Micro switch mounting screw 2-56 x 7/16"
LED Playfield Lights 555 style from CoinTaker
LED flasher bulbs 906/89 style from cointaker
Long UV Lights (along sides of playfield). This is tricky as needs to be bright.
Cold Cathode fluorescent light, UV color (blacklight), 600mm (24 inches.)
http://www.elwirepros.com/single-24in-ccfl-computer-k24.html
Short UV Lights (long lower ball arch)
Cold Cathode fluorescent light, UV color (blacklight), 150mm (6 inches.)
http://www.elwirepros.com/6in-comp-ki6.html
COMPUTER AND BOARDS NEEDED.
Computer. Kevin use an old HP computer. Don't think anything too powerful needed. Running Windows7
P-ROC
Standard Proc CPU board (not proc3.)
PD-16 driver master pd-16m
PD-16 slave board pd-16
PD-8x8 Lamp matrix board pd-8x8
Misc ribbon cables
DMD
use a standard 5 volt LED DMD. or a plasma DMD with a small DMD power supply (more expensive but this is what was originally called for.)
Power supplies:
5vdc / 12vdc power supply
Lamp matrix power supply. Need 18 volts for lamp matrix.
Coil power. need 50 volt supply for coils.
General illumination power supply. use a 6 volt power brick.
Smart power strip: used for power distribution
Of course there's tons of other things needed too. Like buttons, coin door, wood back playfield panel, etc etc. Probably a lot more than i can think of right now...
====================
But the point is this. This game is not a difficult build from a parts perspective, aside from the custom stuff listed at the top of this post. Could most people do this? probably not, but given the time, could be done! After all, Kevin did it twice!! It would take a lot of time and knowledge. And you still have some issues with software and ramps and playfield that are difficult to overcome, but not impossible. If you had a playfield though, that would get you into the ball park, as it's a good starting point (after all you have to have something to bolt the parts too!)

Just for clarification, how many predators are in existence?

#17349 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I appreciate the opinion, but anyone that has assets of the pre-order buyers is worth sleuthing. I dont care if it is only a couple thousand dollars worth of parts, those are still potentially recoverable funds for pre-order people and frankly should not be in the hands of anyone but the trustee at this point. Anyone that supported Kevin after the shit hit the fan and willingly aided in getting him more money and taking advantage of all the pre-order people by buying up parts or games is a pretty shitty person IMHO.
Granted Clay could answer it very clearly but stating he does not nor has ever been in possession of a Predator playfield or any predator parts. Those game specific things are obviously the limiting factor to this and also the most valuable assets that remain of the physical 10 potential builds. If Clay was a legit asset to the hobby then he would have provided info to help recover assets for the others in the community, period.

images-6 (resized).jpg

images-5 (resized).jpg

19
#17350 1 year ago

If you look at the parts list I posted above a few posts, you can see the nearly everything is available from pinball life and Marco. Since Kevin was a manufacturer or trying to be one, I'm sure he was getting wholesale pricing from pinball life. Also pinball life is in Chicago which is fairly close. I can't imagine Kevin would inventory any parts. Why not buy them "just in time", as they are needed. That way he doesn't have to put much money upfront. And he doesn't have to handle inventory the associated accounting that goes with it.

Some things he would have to order in advance. The cabinets, playfields, custom toys, ramps. All that stuff would have to be done in advance. Those things he would have to inventory. But everything else is pretty much stock parts. I don't know why people think that these parts were in his possession in advance.

And even if he did have these parts or some of them, how much would they really be worth? Pop bumper assemblies wholesale from Pinball life are like $35. So now they're beat up a bit, shop wear, what are they worth? $20? How many would he possibly have? If you get them back, what are you gonna do with that? Put them on eBay and sell them? So now you have to pay somebody to do that work and ship them out and list them and take pictures. In the end you have pretty much a bag of nothing. If you add up all these parts which Kevin may or may not have, I think you find the value to be extremely low

what about the custom parts? So you know he bought the back alley creation toys. What do those have any value? Probably not. He never had the ramps made so you got nothing there. And even if he did they be custom so they be of no value anyways. Who wants black Williams cabinets with the word "predator" on the side? I saw Paul at the Ann Arbor pinball show as a vendor, he was selling blank cabinets for $200. And those had no stickers on them which are certainly more versatile than ones that say "predator" on the side. To sell those somebody would have to strip the cabinet graphics off them. That's a lot of work. Are you gonna pay somebody to do that? Are the playfield worth anything? I guess it would be a neat wall hanging but a lot of negative feelings comes with that, I'm not even sure it's worth it for that aspect. I believe Kevin bought those from spooky originally for 400 dollars each. So there isn't really even a lot of value with the play field.

in the end chasing down these magical and mysterious and probably nonexistent parts, it's just a waste of time. In the end nothings really will come of it, if they could even be found, and if they even exist. The only person that gets anything out of this whole ordeal is the lawyers. Maybe a buyer would buy all the stuff for a what a thousand dollars? Then divide that by the number of people in the class action suit, and everybody ends up with a pizza, and the lawyers buy a new car. If people really need a pizza, see me at Chicago Expo, and we'll go out and get some Chicago pizza together and I'll buy. Maybe get a beer too. I don't really need much of an excuse to go to a famous Chicago pizzeria...

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