I know a Sonic that charges $0.75 for water. The man speaks truth!

Can anyone verify this: PayPal is the trustee of the funds that have been collected.
Does PP evan do this sort of thing? Who asked them to be "trustee"
Isn't a trustee set up when going into bankruptcy?

I just got the final letter from my CC company indicating that my claim was valid and that the credit will be finalized. I'm still out the original $250, but it could be much worse.

Good luck to all of those still chasing their refunds, I hope everyone gets their money back.

If you can lie to 250 people, it's easy to lie to a judge.

I'm still waiting for mine to be finalized, but the credit showed up on this month's bill. They denied my $250 claim based on length of time, but when I called them back, they said re-submit a new claim and state more clearly how it was tied in. I got a card back from them stating that they're looking into it. Maybe there's still hope.

Just heard back from the detective. Basically it says he cant do anymore with the case because nobody from Michigan will come forward so it not in his jurisdiction.

OK.

Mission is to now find someone that is in from MI.

Has anyone talked to PMwolf? I was sure at one point he was in???

Please, someone in Michigan has got to step forward. Do not let this scumbag, Kevin Kulek and SkitB Pinball get away with taking money under false pretenses.

I didn't realize Pinside was selling all of these?

Pinside user millerjl from Detroit, MI is a buyer in on Predator.

See his post here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/attention-predator-buyers-list/page/2#post-2348616

Does anyone here know him?

Has anyone tried contacting him to make him aware of the detective's info?

Okay, so we are now aware of four (4) Predator owners from Michigan who have not yet contacted the detective.

Their assistance is needed to enable the detective to maintain jurisdiction & keep the case alive.

Here are the links to PM them to make them aware of this:

Millerjl:
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/millerjl/contact

pmWolf:
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/pmwolf/contact

******* (name removed at request for privacy):
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

PinballJeff (I just heard back from him that he left detective a voicemail):
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/pinballjeff/contact

The detective's info to pass along to them is:
Detective Brent Benzing
Midland County Sheriff's Department
(989) 839-4621
[email protected]

The question to ask is, did the guys in Mich. get refunds so it would make it harder for the rest to get restitution? If not why the silent treatment?

Was wondering the same thing

Or are they getting one of the 6 games he has parts for.

I sent a PM to both.

Side idea>> Property is apparently cheap in MIdland MI. I woudl be up for buying something just so I can get the ball rolling if that si what the detective really needs.

Sounds like we may need to make a call to see what it really takes to keep the heat on from the cops or possibly rais ethe jurisdistion to the next level?

Cool call the detective see what he says. Did anybody else get a email from the detective today or just me?

I went the CC chargeback route, and things look like they are working out.

I did send the detective info to a couple of my Michigan friends who paid via other means (Check)...so I don't know where they were at in the process.

Pete

If you want to keep the heat on him I suggest you get with the AG and get the name of their contact at Fox. Contact Fox and let them know Kevin is still trying to produce some number of games on the side for people. Fox can put their lawyers on him and be much more effective at making his life hell until all money is returned.

Pete,

I assume at minimum your original payment of $250 was not able to be recouped from chargeback?
That would be enough I assuem since Kevin still stole that money from you.

Would you be willing to reach out to the detective today since you a MI resident and discuss with him what else we can do?

Can you also check with your other MI friends to see where they are in the process?

I just heard back from PinballJeff that he has already left the detective a voicemail.

He also told me that there is another Michigan victim (xxxxxxx name removed at request for privacy) who was planning on calling the detective (added his name to my previous post).

Yes, since Kevin's defense argues that they need more time to serve refunds so they can resume production. Resume production. That means that he is willing to continue production in the face of Fox's resistance. If you do end up contacting Fox, I would ask Enaud to provide evidence or a summary of the session minutes (if his attorney allows it).

Even if you got a chargeback from your credit card, you should still contact the detective I think.

Absolutely. pmWolf could actually be the one to get the ball rolling in the detective's jurisdiction. We need you man.

In case this was missed on the previous page.

It was reported earlier that the local detective had already forwarded the info on to the FBI. It takes google 2 seconds to tell you the nearest FBI field office is in Detroit. Call them and inquire. They aren't ones to confirm an active investigation, but if you let them know you are a victim you might get some information if you listen closely to what they say.

This was never going to be prosecuted at the local level, even if a Michigan resident makes a complaint. *Assuming* fraud has occurred,
- It involved interstate commerce
- It involved the use of the US mail system and forms of electronic communications
- 100+ victims, 100's of thousands of dollars of losses are alleged.

It's clearly a federal crime, if indeed a crime has been committed. If the Midland detective is using the words "not in his jurisdiction", it's not unreasonable to read something into that comment. Again, the wheels of federal justice grind very slowly - but they do keep grinding. I wouldn't consider KK out of the woods yet.

The 'resume production' statement is likely a stall and I wouldn't put much faith in it. He can say he's trying to work it out with Fox. All he'd have to do is send emails or make an inquiry or two via his lawyer to 'prove' he's making an 'honest effort', even if he knows it will come to nothing.

Correct. If a crime has been committed it doesn't matter (legally-speaking) if a charge-back was successful or not.

Lawyer is hopeful to have everything on the legal side done in 60-90 days. Once all that dies down, supposedly revisiting the chance of FOX approving license if enough people would still buy the game if built; if not, then will officially cancel the build and start looking at actual refunds for people.

*allegedly, so don't take any of that as actual truth. Just what I was told.

Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion, so what is being said is Kevin Kulek is still building and selling Predator pinball machines with out a license? Somebody should give FOX a call again.

Who in there right mind would stick with this after all the lies that have been told, I mean half truths.
If he any good will he would refunded the money first. Then try and get approval and restart. But no, he will not let go of the money. Just like Jpoop, another scam bag.

I didn't say that he was resuming production. Only that the negotiations with fox were not closed. What I think has been misunderstood is the production statement. He said that the criminal investigation is what had stalled production. He made no statement that he is still producing the machines. He did not say that he has now obtained the licensing to resume production. Let's be very careful with the rumor mill, please.

I think this statement was a bit misunderstood. Of course, we couldn't be there to hear exactly what his lawyer said. A lot of this is still up in the air in regards to an outcome and it's getting pretty thick as far as fact/vs. rumor at this point. I was not trying to put words in your mouth and I apologize.

If it's on the internet then it has to be true, right?

I have been out of the office at training and have not had a chance to respond to emails, so please forgive the tardiness of this correspondence. At this writing, the case has been turned over to Special Agent Anthony Kraudelt with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. At this time, there are no reported victims from Michigan, and due to the geographic scope of the investigation and total possible monies lost, I requested the assistance of a larger investigative entity. Myself and Agent Kraudelt did sit with Mr. Kulek and his attorney, identified as Mr. Jon Emaus from Brighton, Michigan, earlier in the month. At that time, further documents were requested from Mr. Kulek and his attorney for review in this case. Any additional questions should be directed to Special Agent Kraudelt at the email of [email protected]. Thank you for your patience during this investigation.

Det. Benzing

This is my email from the detective. Since then i have been in contact with Agent Kraudelt and it doesnt get any better. Hes basically said that people have been receiving refunds who want them and paypal has been working with us to send our requested refunds.

I highly suggest everyone who want a refund but hasnt got one send a email to the agent at the FBI!!!

Wut? I know they are saying that 170-ish people have been refunded, but that is just verbal gymnastics since that is EVERYONE, EVER, over the years - I know of no one that has been refunded since last December. And PayPal is not working with anyone...

Yes it's true, I was in on this from the start. I have my reasons for not being public about it for all this time. I've been laying low to see where this was all leading but now it looks like Michigan needs to be represented to keep the case alive. My plan was to call him today but I wanted to have all my ducks in a row before making that call and will do so tonight and then I plan on making the call tomorrow.
If I find out anything I'll post it here so stay tuned.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

I'll be contacting Special Agent Anthony Kraudelt in a few moments. Just wanted to bump this, as I've gotten no refund, and a Chargeback is not possible for me as my PayPal was linked to a checking account.

I'm hoping for a means for a refund, and will hope that I will receive one. Although hoping doesn't put the appropriate pressure on Kevin Kulek, I'm guessing all those affected should contact the FBI agent.

Thank you for the info mitch1985!

I'm glad to see that the criminal justice system is working and there is a trustee (PayPal) looking after the creditors' best interests.

Are there any other options available?

finally got this nugget.

This case is dead in the water, I got confirmation from the agent from the FBI, apparently their findings was no crime has been committed. I again requested a refund from Kevin Kulek and will wait again for I'm sure no response. PayPal is a lost cause for me also. Apparently the bad guys win. Kevin Kulek if you read this refund my money even if it's a partial refund that is at least showing me you really aren't trying to get away with stealing my money. I'm exhausted by this and it has absolutely ruined pinball for me. I'm more upset at myself then anyone else at this point for being so naive. I guess the saying is true, a fool and his money will part. I'm the fool, good game Kevin.

Just got this response from the FBI detective on the case. Or, I should say, off the case.

>>
Thank you for your email. After a thorough investigation into the activities, communications, and financials of Mr. Kulek, and his business Skit-B, it was determined that no criminal wrong doing had occurred. As I’m aware you’ve been informed, Mr. Kulek was interviewed by both local law enforcement and the FBI regarding the various aspects of the “Predator Pinball” allegations. It was identified that Skit-B had made efforts to fulfill the requests of its purchasers, but had failed to obtain appropriate licensing in a timely matter to allow for delivery as soon as customers had desired. Based on the information provided to law enforcement, customers who have requested reimbursement through PayPal were made whole. Further, there was no evidence to show Kulek, Skit-B, or anyone, misused or misappropriated funds obtained from buyers for anything other than the research, development and initial startup costs associated with the Predator pinball gaming platform. At this time Skit-B continues to work with the legal right holders to correct any licensing issues in the hope of eventually delivering on their product. The FBI has concluded its investigation into this allegation and no further investigative steps will be taken at this time.

If you believe you are not receiving an adequate response from Skit-B, or PayPal, regarding your request for reimbursement you may want to contact to civil attorney and file suit for the purpose of redemption of your funds.
>>

Thank you for your email. After a thorough investigation into the activities, communications, and financials of Mr. Kulek, and his business Skit-B, it was determined that no criminal wrong doing had occurred. As I'm aware you've been informed, Mr. Kulek was interviewed by both local law enforcement and the FBI regarding the various aspects of the "Predator Pinball" allegations. It was identified that Skit-B had made efforts to fulfill the requests of its purchasers, but had failed to obtain appropriate licensing in a timely matter to allow for delivery as soon as customers had desired. Based on the information provided to law enforcement, customers who have requested reimbursement through PayPal were made whole. Further, there was no evidence to show Kulek, Skit-B, or anyone, misused or misappropriated funds obtained from buyers for anything other than the research, development and initial startup costs associated with the Predator pinball gaming platform. At this time Skit-B continues to work with the legal right holders to correct any licensing issues in the hope of eventually delivering on their product. The FBI has concluded its investigation into this allegation.

If you believe you are not receiving an adequate response from Skit-B, or PayPal, regarding your request for reimbursement you may want to contact to civil attorney and file suit for the purpose of redemption of your funds.

That's too bad. Was there ever mention by the Detective or the FBI of the public statements Kevin made with regards to the licensing? I linked at least three: one in writing here (first post of the last major thread), a seminar video and a podcast. And I'd be surprised if there weren't others who have emails from him related to the licensing.

I sent a follow up email to the prepared email that I (and lamihh) posted above. I asked if it is not fraud to claim to have a license, publicly, while taking my money knowing full-well he did not.

I am going to send an email to Kevin's Lawyer requesting my refund... in 3..2..1....

When I spoke to the detective a couple of weeks ago on this very question, he said that the "criminal" fraud would be against Fox, not the customers. If he hasn't created and sold any units, then, no crime has taken place. He also said that should Kevin create said units, Fox could seize them from the consumer since it would be an unlicensed product.

Now, the key point here is to make it well known (shouting from the rooftops) that said statement of license was a means to obtain funds under "false pretense". That's a key phrase. Should Kevin file for bankruptcy, the debtors can petition to have the funds considered a non-dischargeable debt since they were obtained under false pretense. Thus, bankruptcy won't be an option for Kevin.

Unfortunately, you may have to file a civil suit to get your money back. I've done that and haven't gotten my money back yet. (It's just been 1 week since the small claims court.)
He has 21 days to pay or it's back to court.

this is so messed up. situations like this make me lose faith in humanity. this is just wrong.

Exactly