This is Kevin's problem, not Rodger's.

no i did not think that easy at all.so if you think you have something to manufacture as a start up company you don't stand a chance? i don't know so im asking...

This is an interesting read from another hobby - model kits. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1332614/posts

It's dated but they talk about how licensing fees are killing their hobby. Most interesting is further down the read someone posts the Boeing license agreement including costs, clauses, the whole nine yards. Interesting to acquaint yourself with all involved.

To those running Expo I would suggest a presentation by Roger Sharpe on industry licensing. What % of a games costs typically goes toward licensing fees? Typical clauses to expect in game licensing deals? Past successes/failures or just weird things license holders and celebrities required. At a minimum, it would be free advertising for Roger's business for "would be" pinball companies thinking they can do this alone. For hobbyists, a better appreciation for game prices, licensing impacting game code updates or release dates, and just making us smarter and better educated buyers. (Yes, even if we avoid preorders from now on)

Just remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Brad

After the TBL refund fiasco, there was a pinball podcast interview with Roger Sharpe where he spent a lot of time on general licensing questions.

And for those who think that licensing a game is expensive, I think you would be surprised on Roger's response. It was much less per game than I had anticipated. Not that it's not difficult, just that the cost isn't as high as people would expect.

Let me see if I can find it.

Here you go:

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-127-a-timely-evening-with-roger-sharpe_33981

Pretty informative.

I think I saw a bat signal or something...

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-127-a-timely-evening-with-roger-sharpe_33981

You do realise that's how journalism works, right? If he was ready to talk to someone about it, it would be published.

I wasn't in on Predator, but I do want to tell those of you who were that I am genuinely sorry for what you're going through. I've lost many thousands of dollars in other ways (especially due to the housing crisis a few years ago), and I know it's frustrating and infuriating.

Major failures in one corner of the hobby ultimately affect everyone in the hobby. I've preordered three times, but I won't be doing it again. Unfortunately, that will make it harder for someone else to start a new company, but so be it.

Incredible. story!

I would actually imagine that the calculation was extremely simple. I imagine there would be an Account Summary screen that shows the amount of Credits to the Seller and an Amount that remains in the Account. Her only calculation would be to see if those two numbers are equal.

I agree that it's surprising for them to divulge information on another account but giving the circumstances and the activity that has likely occurred on the account perhaps it provides some leeway.

Regardless though, I hope for sake of those that preordered that she knows what she is taking about.

Well...

Today I talked to a claims dept. Supervisor at Paypal and she told me they are looking into all the claims against the frozen account. She said the account holder has to contact them to get the funds released. She said she couldn't comment beyond the fact that Paypal IS WAITING on Kevin.

After that live conversation, I posted here that I was buying a new suit.... then I went shopping.

I think if you could show that you have a brain in your head, a solid plan, and have done your due diligence then you could probably make it work. Basically they just want their cut and to make sure you don't make their IP look bad.

For licensing, I've heard the number $50 per game in the past, but I'm sure it varies. That said, that is likely based on a large number of games. $50 * 1000 = $50,000. I would assume there is some minimum required, so a run of 250 games would be significantly higher.

$20-25 per game said Roger.

The trick is, you have to spend $50k+ to even get their attention.

They're billion dollar studios. To put it in perspective, do you bother to pick up a penny on the sidewalk? No, but you'd bother for a dollar bill.

So spending that much "no matter what" you're looking at $200 a game for Predator sized runs. Quadruple that and you're closer to the $50/game rumored Stern rate.

Why do you need a claim? You are getting a Predator machine, remember? You kept telling everybody and was willing to throw down bets you where so sure!

You defended the project so much and had 100% confidence when people had questions to the point of becoming verbally abusive. Your blatant disregard for obvious signs of concern that people had and your posts trying to keep people in this project, in the end you "may" have hurt their chances at getting refunded money if they stayed in longer because they believed you.

In the end it still is Kevin who is to blame, but you certainly did not help the situation any...

Have a penny...

yup. I was wrong. Sucks to be me.

Hope you feel a little better for pointing it out (again).

Upright citizens brigade was one of my favorite shows, up there with WKUK
"you think you're better than me? I laugh at you before you laugh at me"

Is there an chance that those that did not send any money might also receive a refund?

I heard there's a good chance of that....just be patient.

"I've sent Kev my request for a refund, even though I never gave one, just for the outside
chance, he is so disorganized/deranged, I might get it."

you beat me to it

Way to keep it classy people.

surely thats a breach of privacy. i cant for one minute believe that. hey if shes going to tell you that, ask her whose got the damn prototype, she might know that too ?! sounds like shes full of info ...

I mean really? Sad.

i read that as a bad joke.. and in light of whats happened here... not cool

I keed , I keed.. ,

Stranger things have happened.

Even all the thumbs downers have to admit they though about it.

Do you accept Monopoly money ?

That's a joke, or isn't it. Paypal won't give you information about anyones account.
Never ever. Don't kidding. But as you explained if it's really the fact ... a little bit of hope

Lawsuits begin today?

At this point, let's just hope all the guys who had money in this game get as much back as possible if not all of it (ideally). Regardless of which side of the fence you were on to start this project, it does no good for anyone to lose a bunch of money on the deal.

I don't have any skin in the game, but I certainly don't want to see anyone lose money if possible.

Hope for the best.

There's my positivity for a Friday.

Got be excruciating for the folks with money involved. Everything seems like "relax and wait":

SkitB - endless loop of "waiting a couple weeks for better news"
spfxted - "Just give them 2 weeks for REALLY awesome news"
Anonymous group - just wait for the pinball news story
Pinball news - just wait for Kevins response
Paypal - just wait for vendor to respond.

etc, etc, etc, etc.

It's got to feel like this....

When what you guys really ALL deserve is THIS:
**Removed by mod**

This whole deal kinda sucks, huh!

Someone should start the "I've been ejected from the Official Pinside Skit-B Predator Discussion club" thread

...and then there are people that keep complaining about the waiting when that's all anyone can do at this moment. The Credit Card companies and/or PayPal will let someone know when there is real news about the refunds...

*Whispers to spfxted* Let the dude keep complaining about the waiting. We get to see more tits when he does!

You have a point there!

Congrats, on your first thumbs up from me in this thread.

I vote 3 thumbs up on more tits as well. Least this thread has something to offer than, because the past 20 + pages have been the same dribble talked about over and over. Least this is entertaining.

Edit: I forgot to pay contribute.

wow I haven't seen cock mongler since like 2008

Close to the truth. Let me see...

- Martin (Pinball News): wrote an email to get something clarified... No answer
- the famous Fox IP attorney: wrote to him... no answer
- the Anonymous group: did not even try, their gmail seem not active anymore... but they did not try to contact me either
- Kevin: wrote to him... no answer to my last email

To tell the truth, Kevin was the last one to give me a personal response to a question. Speak volumes...

So in the end, this is the 1956 movie that should be licensed now:

the-silent-world-movie-poster-1956.jpg

Paypal has closed my case and filed in my favor. I got my "refund" of 4500 . Good luck to everyone else!

Awesome!! Thats great news!!! Prayers that we start hearing more of these.

I finally have something to say in the huge post.
Congrats!
I hope everyone else gets their money back.

Awesome!! When was your latest / earlier payment? Can you PM some details?

GREAT news!!!

Best news I have seen all day!

I made the $4500 payment on 2/26/2014. I went through my credit card for the dispute and they in turn opened the Paypal case. I'm not going to bother disputing the initial $250 deposit.

I ended up with a negative balance on my Discover card so I called them up and they are sending me a check.

I emailed Kevin and asked about timeframe for refunds. 10 minutes ago he said they started 2 days ago.
Finally!!
....edit: I sent another email asking what was happening with people who have sent checks....