Yikes! -45 is that a record?

I think what's important is that it is a formal step in the process.

This is said very nicely and from a sad tone really Pac. I know that may have sounded funny to you, but it really isn't. People are out thousands of dollars here. It's a real nightmare for some people and to give them that instant of excitement just isn't cool.

LAME!

oh please.

The "attitude" that needs to get checked is the "holier than though" attitude from folks that enjoy being "in the know" and lording over others.

The "I have info about SkitB but I just cant share it" crap has proven to have made things worse.

Re: the address? This is silly.

Guess what, if you want to do ANYTHING legally requires an address. The AG form linked above? Address is a mandatory field. Want to send a registered letter? Need an address.

If pinside doesn't want it linked here, thats fine, but I think it completely condescending to suggest SOME folks can know it, but the "mob" would act on it irrationally.

Gimme a break. Like anyone would risk going to prison over $4K by showing up at Kevins little house with their pitchforks and torches...

It's may be "too soon", but for some, a bit of levity helps.

For all Predator pre-order folks, your best avenues for relief are to pursue every legal avenue available, whether that's Paypal, your CC or a fraud claim.

This is not a matter of what Kevin said regarding refunds. It's about ensuring your place in line in the event of bankruptcy claims to get (likely) partial restitution. Hope for the best, but assume and plan for the worst, and attack the claim accordingly.

It is beating a dead horse at this point. Most people were warned about it and I myself paid $250 at the chance of it. Would I like a refund, of course. Legally there is not too much that can be done about it at this rate. He said he is going to try and get refunds together for everyone, but it's a big mess as we all know.

I stated when this was going on there is no way I will ever give full amounts on pre-orders to anyone ever. The pinball community had not experienced this type of stuff which is prevalent in other gaming areas. It's too prone to scams and people believing unfortunately. $250 is nothing to sneeze at but there was no way I was paying another $3000...

My biggest gripe is the people defending the guy like he would not do anything were stating "because he is a good pinball player and nice, etc." I mean really....I am sure he did not "mean" anything by it, but it's beyond scam point at this with no communication and all the stuff that happened. Can't drink the Kool-Aid and listen to any more excuses.

I had people think I was scamming someone because I asked for PayPal on this very forum, and I have not ripped anyone off and the seller had never sold one item, but placed a "donation" and had a heart next to his name and I was seriously called out for that.

The only reason I bring that up is because just like with the new posters trying to sell $2000 Addams Families on here, people defend the wrong people and continuously aren't aware of possible scams at work.

I hope I get my money back too, but it's been a year and a half already.

Perhaps but I'm a victim here too for the whole friggen amount. I don't have any boob pix to share so this is my twisted humor to take my mind off this mess. The stupid lying hippie needs his ass kicked.

punk-rocker actually

I have been to 100's of punk rock shows/events. I have never ran into him. The title is self proclaimed. Lets not give it credit.

But don't you see? "it just sort of happened that way"

Quote from Kevin: "As a colleague of mine has always said, we've always had something of a ‘punk rock’ approach to pinball which has inadvertently defined us from the beginning.  We never meant to be the ‘punk rockers’ of pinball, it just sort of happened that way"

So you now know the truth, man. He's not a poser, he's the real thing, man.

/sarcasm

Going to try to PAINT this thread into a positive light for the beginning of the week...

huh?

do-you-speak-english_o_1898701.jpg

download.jpg

yo-dawg-i-herd-you-like-confusion-so-i-put-a-confusion-in-your-confusion-so-u-can-be-confused-while-you-are-confused.jpg

NOW we're in total agreement! LOLOL

Is there nobody here who knows the gentlemen from Pinball News (Martin?) Can anyone provide an update from him on when the Pinball News follow-up article is expected? Or did they decide against providing any further information? An awful lot of people still left in the dark right now.

This statement was totally unnecessary. You made your point on why the info may be necessary.

And so did I. Done.

Martin is in Texas at the moment..

Im sure he will update his report when he gets home..

Cheers
Ian

what are you, the next j.g. wentworth?
http://jgwentworth.com/

Hi,

My CC contact needs some details regarding Skit-B transactions. If you have screenshots or pdf of the Kit-B website when the Predator pages were still active, I would appreciate getting a copy.
Also: any evidence that the pin should have been delivered in 2014?

Thanks - email mergny (at) mnhn (dot) (countrycode for france is fr...)

use the internet archive....it took a few snapshots of the webpage....check here for one....

https://web.archive.org/web/20130221042922/http://skitbpinball.com/

Hope it helps.

C.

jiv2b.jpg

This is probably a silly question but I have never filed a police report. Should I file one in kansas city where I live or in michigan where Kevin lives? He's had plenty enough time to keep in contact with us and he refuses to.

I spoke with my local bank branch last Saturday. They instructed me to file a fraud report with MY LOCAL police office in which I reside.
I'm preparing my documents tonight and am going to file tomorrow. I'm also going to file with the Michigan AG.
Good luck to us all!

Thanks for the info. At this point I don't expect to see a refund, but im also not gonna let someone blatantly steal money from me either.

I really hope kevin breaks his silence and starts refunds, I'm not sure he understands the backlash that is headed his way. There is legal action being taken against and fraud is not a minor offense, as for the stealing let me just say that I'll be headed for Michigan if I don't get my refund soon.

Have you posted in the other "buyers list" thread? We are discussing group options on the formation of a battle plan. I would suggest any buyers still sitting on the fence to please consider joining us.

Yeah you have already pmed me.

Can someone send me a link to the list?

Are you talking about rlslicks thread?

Yep. Sorry I forgot I PM'ed you.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/attention-predator-buyers-list

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/attention-predator-buyers-list

Edit: beat me by a minute!!

Amen.

I cant believe the shrill whining about how confronting him face-face somehow automatically equals mob violence.

If someone STOLE money from me I certainly would feel it within my rights to go speak with him face to face- especially since he's refused to speak with people... HE is the one forcing the confrontation by ignoring all other forms of communication.

The "Wuss"-ification of society is truly depressing that people should be made to feel like neanderthals for wanting to personally engage someone who knowingly mislead, ignored and stole their money.

One short generation ago- this behavior would have been met with a strong words (not emailed) and a punch in the nose.

Perhaps the lack of that today is what makes someone like Kevin think he can sit safely in his mother basement and steal peoples money with impunity.

If you must insist on going to see Kevin face to face, take a police officer with you. Might even want to have that arrest warrant delivered at that time. In fact, you better check in with the police before going to the trouble to go up there. If you don't have them with you, you will be trespassing.
Be smart.

Reposting this because I think some people need to read it. Demanding communication and threatening to show up on his doorstep will accomplish nothing except waste your time. I wouldn't even file a fraud report, I would sue for the amount owed me. I guess you could do both if you wanted. Your best and fastest way to get your money back is by suing for the amount owed, and then making your claim in a bankruptcy hearing.

You will not hear from Kevin again. Period.

You won't be trespassing unless there are obvious signs posted, or you are asked to leave and refuse to do so.

What I guess I don't understand is how someone can file bankruptcy while sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars, he would have prove he doesn't have the funds to pay his outstanding debts or am I off base? Its not like he can just file bankruptcy and keep our money. At this point if he files bankruptcy I want to see him tossed in jail.

My grandpa ran a small grocery store. When someone bounced a check at the store he'd go to their house and take something till they made it right. My dad still has a ladder from someone that wrote a back check at the store. Different times.

He obviously spent some money on Predator. And marketing it. Expenses of parts, going to shows, the prototypes etc.

So he doesn't have money to give 100% refunds to everyone. Depending on what the asset to debt ratio is, he may be eligible for bankruptcy.

This. If you have $900K in cash and assets, and $1M in debt past due, you are bankrupt.

Don't go knocking on his door.....shotguns blast right through them. And the guy probably has enough threats made on him already to get away with it too. You can bet your ass he knows all this is going on. You getting hit with a criminal charge is not going to change the final outcome of this one bit. It will probably just slow things down even more.

Hook up with the other guys via Starfighter and get your chronological statement of everything that happened together in an orderly fashion to be presented to the police department in your jurisdiction. That same statement will end up in civil court later too so make sure you have it all correct in its final form with every bit of information in it. You will need all dates, times, locations, account numbers checks were written on and full information on any communications you had with Kevin or his associates. Include what phone number you called him from etc. If you used paypal include printouts of the communications to and from them also, and copies of every email. If everyone does this it will make the entire investigation for the cops much easier and result in a much faster ending to this terrible chapter in pinball history.

What part of this situation does the IRS go straight up their ass to investigate where funds to buy a house and all kinds of other goodies came from?

Well, if he didn't form an LLC, and didn't get a license, I'm pretty damn sure he didn't report all of the pre-order money he took in. I'm sure he will be getting it from the IRS soon.

In Canadian right now its $3600 that has been stolen from me, I'm sorry but no one is going to get away with stealing my money. Kevin can pay for his own expenses regarding Predator products and advertising etc. I said before I'll take the $250 loss but the rest is mine, Kevin take your time and hurry up.

I urge each and every one of you customers to file a consumer complaint/fraud report with the Michigan Attorney General. Did that today. One thing that I did notice, and here is their quote:
"Because of the enormous volume of complaints we receive, however, the Attorney General's office cannot file lawsuits on behalf of individual consumers. Rather, the Attorney General will sue a company only when the general public interest is involved or in certain cases involving a large number of consumers."
If we have 200+ consumer complaints filed against Mr. Kulek, that might be a large enough population to gain their interest and motivate them to do something.
Step by step, please continue to share your progress.

Great advice! And on that last part "be smart" - one little word of advice. Anyone posting on a public message board an insinuation of bodily harm or theft of Kevin's own items - and if something does actually happen - you will be in a heap of trouble even if you had nothing to do with it. Prosecutors will have written evidence that you publicly supported physical harm to Kevin or theft of goods, and could be an accomplice to a crime. This isn't wuss-ification this is fact and just plain stupid.

For those of you whose money was taken, you have a right to be pissed. Rally together to take next steps in the process to getting your money back.

People who do not have skin in the game (lowepg)

stop adding noise that will not result in a refund. You've said some smart things in this thread and then....well. Right now a refund is all that matters.

https://secure.ag.state.mi.us/complaints/consumer.aspx

Just submitted my formal complaint. I hired an attorney today. If someone has any updated address for Kevin I would appreciate it. I really don't want to go back through all the pages of this thread.

sfhhdfh

I agree.

Where is it though?

When he said he was refunding everyone 100% I frankly felt like it was bullshit. It would have been more believable if he said,

"I collected $1M. I spent $200K trying to make this thing work and it didnt. So, I am immediately reversing the funds I have. This means everyone will get 80 cents on the dollar paid. Im terribly sorry, but thats where we're at right now."

To suggest he's in a position to refund everyone doesn't seem plausible.... especially for a guy who lives in a house that costs roughly the same as about 4 of these pinball machines...

So, my point is I think Kevin is (again) full of shit and "swift" refunds are not forthcoming.

Btw, Id LOVE for this to be the (first) time I'm wrong thinking the worst of him.

Actual quote...."The refund process is expected to be swift and completed very soon. You all will start to see those balances reflecting in your accounts in a few short days"

This was sent out by Kevin one week to the day.

I agree that the refunds are not forthcoming.

's'end
'f'unds
'h'appily
'h'urried
'd'irect
'f'rom
'h'ome-basement