(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

5 years ago



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There are 18301 posts in this topic. You are on page 128 of 367.
#6351 4 years ago

Why can't these boutique pinball companies open a merchant account like other legitimate businesses?

#6352 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

This kinda falls in line with what Kevin told me so I believe most of the funds are still there, now paypal releasing them to Kevin is another problem. I just want this mess done. Im sure there is a big mess from chargebacks to claims to people past the 180 days. You would think all Kevin would have to do is supply paypal with the names and email of the people that he needs to refund and the amount then paypal should comply but it seems more like the money is being held hostage.

Possibility, but if seller makes little to no attempts to go through refund process, this can look like Paypals fault forever. Why would he? Refunds are HARD!

If there is no monetary or other motivations, most folks get suddenly lazy. Or legal counsel has advised not to act ( which could backfire if that's the case?)

#6353 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Or legal counsel has advised not to act

This premise has been mentioned quite a few times. What would be the advantage of legal counsel advising not to act? Not trying to start anything, just wanting to understand.

#6354 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

This premise has been mentioned quite a few times. What would be the advantage of legal counsel advising not to act? Not trying to start anything, just wanting to understand.

Just parroting what I've read here. Agreed.

Saul-"whatever you do, do NOT give them their money back!"

Kevin-"...."

Saul-" Because you're going to need it. For council."

#6355 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Just parroting what I've read here. Agreed.
Saul-"whatever you do, do NOT give them their money back!"
Kevin-"...."
Saul-" Because you're going to need it. For council."

I get what you're saying but that would be terrible legal advice, going from lawsuits stemming from fox to charges being brought up from 200 customers, He could get off on charges a lot easier if he showed he is refunding folks instead spending our money on legal troubles which would have to increase jail time I would think.

Im not saying he won't try to use that money for legal counsel but he would be a fool to use it. Out of 200 people how many do you think will step up and file charges. I can tell you if a refund doesn't come I am absolutely filing with the police. Maybe I would never see a dime of my money but It would be piece of mind that a crook was being punished.

With all that said I feel like Kevin is trying to come through with refunds and I find it hard to believe he'd want to besmirch his own name worse than it already is. He knows if he makes good on refunding everyones money with time he will be forgiven and be able to show his face around the pinball community again, that I would think is weighing heavily on his mind.

How many of you have no problem forgiving Kevin if he makes good on your cash?
I know I will.

#6356 4 years ago

I just want this mess ended, one way or another, instead of stuck in perpetuity.

I have a feeling Kevin and PayPal will be pointing fingers for a while, and we are stuck waiting.

Or miracles happen and folks get money back suddenly.

#6357 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

I just want this mess ended, one way or another, instead of stuck in perpetuity.
I have a feeling Kevin and PayPal will be pointing fingers for a while, and we are stuck waiting.
Or miracles happen and folks get money back suddenly.

Im with you on that brother. I just want to move on with my life.

#6358 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

How many of you have no problem forgiving Kevin if he makes good on your cash?
I know I will.

If there is one iota of truth to Kevin wanting to fight to deliver these pins to us, whether he succeeded or not, then absolutely I would forgive.

Let folks get thier money back, most or all of it, if all money returned then yes, Kevin is still one of us. He would've tried and failed. But if money is gone, or most spent, ( I'm inclined to believe not the case at all), then he should stay away forever, which would make this a true tragedy for everyone.

Would I sell my soul for $808,000? No. Not any amount.

Unless it's a trillion.

#6359 4 years ago

You should have already filed with PayPal , filed with credit card and filed a police report . If you have not done this then it's hard to understand your position anymore.
If you sent a check file the police report so you have grounds for a possible tax deduction.

#6360 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

If there is one iota of truth to Kevin wanting to fight to deliver these pins to us, whether he succeeded or not, then absolutely I would forgive.
Let folks get thier money back, most or all of it, if all money returned then yes, Kevin is still one of us. He would've tried and failed. But if money is gone, or most spent, ( I'm inclined to believe not the case at all), then he should stay away forever, which would make this a true tragedy for everyone.
Would I sell my soul for $808,000? No. Not any amount.
Unless it's a trillion.

I feel the same way. We will find out sooner or later what kind of man Kevin is.

#6361 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

You should have already filed with PayPal , filed with credit card and filed a police report . If you have not done this then it's hard to understand your position anymore.
If you sent a check file the police report so you have grounds for a possible tax deduction.

I filed with paypal, immediately closed, called my bank nothing they could do. Only thing I haven't done is file a police report.

#6362 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

You should have already filed with PayPal , filed with credit card and filed a police report . If you have not done this then it's hard to understand your position anymore.
If you sent a check file the police report so you have grounds for a possible tax deduction.

Me? My position? Already said I'm not chasing the money. If my $4750 can go towards other guys in this mess getting ALL the money back out of a potentially small pool of refund money, so be it. I've already written it off as a loss but closure on situation is my desire is all.
I've been stolen from and caught scammers before. This situation feels oddly unusual. Maybe cuz Kevin was so into the culture with us?

I get angry all the time. I've got a mean temper; this situation just feels sad IMO.

#6363 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Me? My position? Already said I'm not chasing the money. If my $4750 can go towards other guys in this mess getting ALL the money back out of a potentially small pool of refund money, so be it. I've already written it off as a loss but closure on situation is my desire is all.
I've been stolen from and caught scammers before. This situation feels oddly unusual. Maybe cuz Kevin was so into the culture with us?
I get angry all the time. I've got a mean temper; this situation just feels sad IMO.

Well I appreciate you doing that but I don't think that is gonna have to be necessary. If refunds come in you should absolutely get your cut.

#6364 4 years ago

Can someone draft a standard letter to PayPal or credit card company that will get a good response to the situation. A letter that they can't ignore?

#6365 4 years ago

Whenever I hear about someone getting a refund all I can think about is this what this guy did.
Too-Good-to-Be-True-Bernie-Madoff-Erin-Arvedlund-unabridged-Tantor-Media-audio-books.jpg

#6366 4 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

But it seems to be a common practice for instance my alien pre order was thru paypal and I'm guessing a lot of the boutique manufacturers do the same.

I think you're right..... and that's the greater point I'm trying to make:

These boutiques, by using paypal to fund pre-orders, may very well be violating the ToS from paypal right from the get-go.

Paypal is (mostly) geared for actual TRANSACTIONS - not an investment vehicle. They state quite plainly:

Screen Shot 2015-03-29 at 9.03.50 AM.png

And because of that, they may declines challenges MONTHS after the transaction:

preorder4.jpg

#6367 4 years ago

Putting the PayPal issue aside, what about those that paid by check?

They have nothing to do with Credit cards or PayPal.... If Kevin is sincere, they should have their refund by now.

From here in the cheap seats, this looks like yet another stalling tactic from Kevin.

#6368 4 years ago

Well, if someone is willing to get the process in the form of a letter to PayPal, I will donate my PRED sale relevant information.

#6369 4 years ago

I just remembered something that those with money paid up with paypal may not think is comforting. I paid my $250 deposit by check in Nov 2012. I was #20 in production. In July 2013 I asked for my deposit back because I had doubts about the project. A couple weeks later he issued a refund via paypal. I didnt think twice at the time. So I guess my point is that you can't depend on the paypal money staying in paypal or any segregation of funds based on how you paid. God knows how this was(n't) organized.

#6370 4 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

Putting the PayPal issue aside, what about those that paid by check?
They have nothing to do with Credit cards or PayPal.... If Kevin is sincere, they should have their refund by now.
From here in the cheap seats, this looks like yet another stalling tactic from Kevin.

Quick question here:

If PayPal and or Kevin never give refunds at all, and Kevin barely touched the money ( supposedly), what happens to the money?

It would piss me off to no end to find out some 3rd party asshat has good timing and happened to legally obtain OUR money.
I paid initial $250 by check. Same boat for check only's: then who's got the money? Folks who made parts? Advertisers for pin shows? Parts get destroyed due to infringement? Friggen mess...
So if, big IF, Kevin cannot access pp for refunds, and pp says, "sorry, not your money!" and issues no refunds themselves, how would this ever end???

#6371 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Quick question here:
If PayPal and or Kevin never give refunds at all, and Kevin barely touched the money ( supposedly), what happens to the money?
It would piss me off to no end to find out some 3rd party asshat has good timing and happened to legally obtain OUR money.
So if, big IF, Kevin cannot access pp for refunds, and pp says, "sorry, not your money!" and issues no refunds themselves, how would this ever end???

The Paypal supervisor told me if Kevin never responds or if he goes to jail, Paypal will wait until law enforcement contacts them to disperse funds.

#6372 4 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

The Paypal supervisor told me if Kevin never responds or if he goes to jail, Paypal will wait until law enforcement contacts them to disperse funds.

Great.

Sooo long time if ever.

Sh*t.

#6373 4 years ago

Maybe you guys could try contacting the media? I know our local news has a "5 on your side" type of segment where they help people try to resolve issues, or at least bring some spotlight to it.

I bet they would be all over a million dollars being held captive by paypal because of a preorder that didn't deliver.

10
#6374 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Great.
Sooo long time if ever.
Sh*t.

Not necessarily, Kevin has the power today to respond to Paypal's repeated requests to get the refund ball moving. Kevin also has the responsibility to everyone involved to keep us informed the plans for the refund process.

Kevin,

If you are reading this... we have crossed over the anger line and we are beyond the blame game. Now is time for you to step up with transparency in the matter of refunds to all the supporters of this project. If you continue to keep the buyers locked out of the refund information, you will force all of us to take legal against you. Many of us would prefer working with you instead of against you. A solution can be found, but you must take the first step.

#6375 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Maybe you guys could try contacting the media? I know our local news has a "5 on your side" type of segment where they help people try to resolve issues, or at least bring some spotlight to it.
I bet they would be all over a million dollars being held captive by paypal because of a preorder that didn't deliver.

I hear ya, but boy, I'd hate for the public to see such a negative light shed on pinball when it's making such a nice resurgence. So I hope this can all be resolved swiftly and remain within the pin-community.

#6376 4 years ago

I don't have a horse in this race.

It's such a shame to see purchasers having to go through this mess.

As for the money that still exists for refunds...one topic I haven't seen is:

How much money did Kevin pay back alley creations for the parts they'd made for the machine?

I wonder how bad BAC is getting screwed in this fiasco as well.

Here's to hoping everyone gets FULL refunds from SkitB.

#6377 4 years ago

Wow what a complete mess!
I hope that everyone involved with this circus receives all their hard earned money back!

#6378 4 years ago
Quoted from galaxian:

Whenever I hear about someone getting a refund all I can think about is this what this guy did.
Too-Good-to-Be-True-Bernie-Madoff-Erin-Arvedlund-unabridged-Tantor-Media-audio-books.jpg

There was a tv show on a few months back. I missed the first 2/3rds of it. I was shocked at what I did catch. It said something about investors with over $100 k got 97% of it back. Investors with less than 100k got 90%. Something like that anyway. It really was a shock because I thought the money was gone and they were swindled. Come to think of it....I think the show said some investors even got all there money back. I wish I would have seen the entire show

#6379 4 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

How much money did Kevin pay back alley creations for the parts they'd made for the machine?
I wonder how bad BAC is getting screwed in this fiasco as well.

My guess is BAC got paid already - before the shitstorm. And I wouldn't be mad at him. Matt doesn't have that much capital sitting around to invest in resources to build all those skull kits.

#6380 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinfidel:

I hear ya, but boy, I'd hate for the public to see such a negative light shed on pinball when it's making such a nice resurgence. So I hope this can all be resolved swiftly and remain within the pin-community.

I definitely worry about that, especially around the 1%/99% topic. I think the general response from the public might be "Oh boo hoo, you lost $5000 on a toy, you obviously have the money, first world problems", when that really isn't the case for a good amount of people that bought into predator.

17
#6381 4 years ago

The bottom line is if my $250 deposit is gone then hey I took a chance and i'll pay the price but Kevin asked for another $2750 claiming the project was in good standing and everything was moving forward. If I don't get back that money then there will be a resulting shitstorm, I have to believe Kevin will refund this cash but my patience is running thin and I better hear something this week or I'll have to treat it as stolen funds. Paypal and CC really couldn't do anything for me outside of filing a claim but I'll get medieval on Kevin's buttocks if this isn't made right.

medieval-on-your-ass.jpg
#6382 4 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I don't have a horse in this race.

It's such a shame to see purchasers having to go through this mess.

As for the money that still exists for refunds...one topic I haven't seen is:

How much money did Kevin pay back alley creations for the parts they'd made for the machine?

I wonder how bad BAC is getting screwed in this fiasco as well.

Here's to hoping everyone gets FULL refunds from SkitB.

I would think that, by and large, vendors have been paid up to date. If they hadn't, I'm sure we'd have heard about it by now.

-1
#6383 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I definitely worry about that, especially around the 1%/99% topic. I think the general response from the public might be "Oh boo hoo, you lost $5000 on a toy, you obviously have the money, first world problems", when that really isn't the case for a good amount of people that bought into Predator.

That and it just makes pinball look bad. All I want is to see this hobby grow and thrive for generations to come. I don't want anything negative to get out and hurt that growth is all.

#6384 4 years ago

What was the name of that pinball documentary that portrayed all of us as dorks? We survived that.

Edit: Special When Lit

#6385 4 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I don't have a horse in this race.
It's such a shame to see purchasers having to go through this mess.
As for the money that still exists for refunds...one topic I haven't seen is:
How much money did Kevin pay back alley creations for the parts they'd made for the machine?
I wonder how bad BAC is getting screwed in this fiasco as well.
Here's to hoping everyone gets FULL refunds from SkitB.

I paid BAC $250 for the two PRED skull/spine set. Not sure how many total were sold or made.

#6386 4 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

The Paypal supervisor told me if Kevin never responds or if he goes to jail, Paypal will wait until law enforcement contacts them to disperse funds.

I think the key is filing actual fraud or theft police reports and moving forward legally. A court order can force PayPal to disperse said funds to applicable victims. If Fox submitted legal cease & desist orders to Skit-B Im sure the ground has been set for follow up legal fraud fillings. It would be great if Fox would pursue this on behalf of the pre-order victims but even if not I think the court is the place to start.

#6387 4 years ago
Quoted from rgb635:

It would be great if Fox would pursue this on behalf of the pre-order victims but even if not I think the court is the place to start.

I wouldn't think Fox cares at all about the pre-order victims. All they care about is protecting their IP. Period.

#6388 4 years ago

I find it very frustrating when you email Kevin and not get a response.
It's sad that I used too defend him on this forum.

#6389 4 years ago
Quoted from MMuller:

I find it very frustrating when you email Kevin and not get a response.
It's sad that I used too defend him on this forum.

#6390 4 years ago

Does anyone know what state and or city he lives in?

32
#6391 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

Does anyone know what state and or city he lives in?

Denial.

#6392 4 years ago

You guys should contact the AG of his state and take it to the next level. The amount of fraud committed at this point seems pretty serious. I think it sucks to have to initiate that level of response but it really doesn't seem that there is much choice at this point. What a PITA.

#6393 4 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

Putting the PayPal issue aside, what about those that paid by check?
They have nothing to do with Credit cards or PayPal.... If Kevin is sincere, they should have their refund by now.
From here in the cheap seats, this looks like yet another stalling tactic from Kevin.

This is me.

I wanted this pin so badly that I sent a cashiers check to Kevin. Just so he could save the paypal / cc fees.

Just wanted to help out the start up guy in anyway I could.

Please be kind with my complete stupidity! Yeah..... hindsight looks really good right now!

#6394 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

Does anyone know what state and or city he lives in?

Yes, many know exactly where he lives including me. I'll just say he's in Michigan but I can't think of any good reason for wanting to know his specific address. Use the legal avenues available to you for any resolution if you have money involved.

#6395 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

You guys should contact the AG of his state and take it to the next level. The amount of fraud committed at this point seems pretty serious. I think it sucks to have to initiate that level of response but it really doesn't seem that there is much choice at this point. What a PITA.

Could provide an address to the AG or county attorney where he lives, and everyone could send a letter, they would get a lot....it definately enough to be a felony

#6396 4 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

Could provide an address to the AG or county attorney where he lives, and everyone could send a letter, they would get a lot....it definately enough to be a felony

Googled the Michigan AG. Here's a link with instructions on filling out a complaint.
https://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-17331-42077--,00.html

From the site: "In some cases, the Consumer Protection Division may be unable to obtain any cooperation from the business. If the business refuses to respond, we will inform you in writing. You may then want to consider filing suit in Small Claims Court or consulting with a private attorney to review your legal options."

So, the way I read that; they can act as a mediator, but if Kevin refuses to play ball, you'll have to sue him.

-1
#6397 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Yes, many know exactly where he lives including me. I'll just say he's in Michigan but I can't think of any good reason for wanting to know his specific address. Use the legal avenues available to you for any resolution if you have money involved.

Well, one reason is you need to be able to identify him..... especially since it appears he never even registered a business entity.

Want to be able to send a registered letter? yeah, you need a physical address.

Your "Well *I* know, but I cant see why YOU should know" kind of attitude is precisely whats made this thing worse already....

#6398 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Well, one reason is you need to be able to identify him..... especially since it appears he never even registered a business entity.
Want to be able to send a registered letter? yeah, you need a physical address.
Your "Well *I* know, but I cant see why YOU should know" kind of attitude is precisely whats made this thing worse already....

As noted many times in this thread the information is easily found online. Public information. Look who registered the domain name if you need an address for legitimate reasons. But to post it on a public forum that is very heated with a lot of emotion flowing would not be a good idea. Giving it to the "mob" might only push someone to do something that the majority of folks here would find more disturbing than the reason this thread was started to begin with.

#6399 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Your "Well *I* know, but I cant see why YOU should know" kind of attitude is precisely whats made this thing worse already....

Check that attitude at the door my friend. Not cool.

PinChili was trying to keep everyone civil and not divulge Kevin's personal home address. As the conversation developed, if the address is needed for filing with the AG I'm sure PinChili would support. But everyone is trying to make sure no vigilante crap occurs.

#6400 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Well, one reason is you need to be able to identify him..... especially since it appears he never even registered a business entity.
Want to be able to send a registered letter? yeah, you need a physical address.
Your "Well *I* know, but I cant see why YOU should know" kind of attitude is precisely whats made this thing worse already....

I never could understand why some people will go out of there way to inform you they know something that they are not going to tell you! I just never understood that. If you are not going to answer a question then don't. Why broadcast that you could answer but will not though?

Odd indeed.

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