Quoted from starfighter:
I am expressing disappointment with their decision to take no action when a neutral statement could have been made with ease.
Quoted from starfighter:
So now the moderators have no responsibility or accountability to members here or is it just a selective responsibility applied every now and then?
While I appreciate the hypothetical argument you're making, I'll stand behind my assessment that their decision to take no action was a mistake and I will further state that if I was in possession of the information at the time and Kevin did ignore my queries, I would have absolutely no problem informing pinside of the situation.
Quoted from flynnibus:
Do you expect the mods to repost that unsubstantiated claim with a 'neutral statement' saying "it has been brought to our attention, through a source we can not identify that these people are unworthy of dealing with on pinside - but we can't confirm or deny who these people are"
Quoted from GGBGROUP:
The idea of this site having a moderator's rule about notifying the board when they receive an anonymous tip of some sort will simply never work. Don't you all think it would quickly be abused by EVERYONE who has an agenda, or just wants to stir the pot.
Quoted from blondetall:
The rumors may be true, but then again they may just be unfounded rumors that, when mixed with the lack of communication from Kevin, killed a company.
Ok, once again I'm only speaking for myself here, but if anyone reads the one big rant that I posted on here awhile back and realizes that I did that as someone who had a whole lot of "nothing" to report and was going insane by it, it may make more sense. I wasn't mad at the bystanders here, which I tried to explain and apologized for. I was mad at the deluge of unofficial second-hand rumors and assumptions that we were being given, by well-intended people who may or may not have been given the truth themselves, and no way to prove or disprove anything.
There is no way that we could have made a statement that would have made everyone happy and not caused panic. I don't know what kind of "neutral statement" would have done anything but put a big bullseye on our backs, as there was so much crap going around that we couldn't even keep it straight. And what were we supposed to create a neutral statement on? The current situation just a fraction of the rumors that have been flying around. We can't make a statement about every rumor we hear, or we (moderators and Pinsiders alike) would all quickly go insane. Heck, I'm halfway there now just with this whole Predator mess.
And I can guarantee you that we didn't have any special information that we used to get ourselves out of the situation first before letting everyone else know, because about half of us are preowners and are still right there with everyone else, trying to get a refund/chargeback and sad/mad that 3 years of our lives have been wasted on a machine that we're never going to get.
Not a single email was sent directly to us from the anonymous group (hereto referred to as AG.) The AG was sending individuals emails then telling them not to release information, or to only release to certain people, or whatever. Some people had written them back and asked who they were, and they said (and I am paraphrasing here since I don't have the emails) "It doesn't matter who we are. We could be part of the industry, or a Pinside moderator, or nobody, and the information would be the same." So since they specifically said moderator, people would send it to us.
They claimed there was no license at all, but they couldn't prove it. Then we had people that worked with Kevin on here vouching that they had seen a license and/or wouldn't work with someone without a license, so we were at a draw. It seemed at one point that there were two AGs because some emails were concerned about the buyers first and foremost, and the others specifically just wanted to expose Kevin as a liar at all costs and referred to the owners as stupid "clapping seals" and didn't care what happened to their money. They got progessively more smug depending on who they were emailing at the time. So the information didn't even line up with what we had from supposedly the same group.
And it wasn't just the AG. Some people had before questioned how I might possibly think that some group or company had a part in bringing down Skit-B other than just Kevin himself. If I was supposed to take stock in the AG emails then I had to at least entertain the other rumors going around from other anonymous groups or people.
About four months ago the rumor was that when Heighway came out with Alien and they were talking about all the trouble they had getting the artwork approved, people started questioning how Predator got approval, started poking around asking more questions with Fox, Fox realized that they had given the wrong type of license to Kevin which didn't encompass everything that they told him it did for the amount of money they charged, and then Fox demanded more money. They also demanded manufacturing be in place, which Kevin didn't have and was trying to get. Hence the "give me more time" requests because he was having to line that up and get contracts done.
Secondary rumors said that Fox themselves didn't contact Skit-B, but groups of people had contacted Fox to ask about it. That seems to be the most truthful of the rumors so far.
There was also rumor that there was a parts supply issue. Emails showing the same parts and nothing being built seemed to help support this, but the main rumor was that the trough assembly was having to be redone or rebuilt somehow because vendors weren't supplying them due to competitors using their buying power/muscle to block needed parts and slow down/shut down production. It didn't help that other companies/employees were linked to the initial reports of there being licensing problems, but all of this was given to us second hand as well.
Secondary rumor on this was that the competitors knew there was a time limit on the licensing and were doing everything they could to push production past that time limit so it would cost more money to relicense it and/or kill the project which they may/may not be trying to get for themselves.
Then there's the rumors associated with Skit-B themselves, compounded by lack of communication and/or cryptic emails from Kevin. Rumors of more money needed for licensing means bringing in another investor/manufacturer who will then make the run unlimited and cost more. Rumors that the current rumors had enough people dropping out that there was a run on the bank and the project was doomed no matter what, so the only hope was to stay in and hope there were enough left to pull it off or attempt to get a refund (which nobody was able to do anyway) and watch the project crumble. Rumors that there are last-minute licensing deals being made and a manufacturer set up but it will take a week or two for the contracts, and if anything is said before the contracts are signed then everything will fall apart.
And since nobody is standing up showing proof, all of it is speculation and rumors. And the more secretive emails we got, the more stories and versions we got. Do you know how many hours of my life I've spent on Pinside, talking behind the scenes, trying to get information for not only myself but my fellow Pinsiders stuck in the same situation? How much time of my own time I've devoted trying to find out "the truth" and then trying to help with credit card chargeback info once "the truth" came out and we were all still screwed?
I can guarantee you that had we received an email from an individual that said:
"Hello, I am ___. Here are my credentials, you know me on Pinside as ____, feel free to check my posts. I have contacted ____ at Fox and talked with them regarding the Predator license. There is no license, and they can confirm that. Their phone # is ______, their email is _______, and my contact information is _____. Please feel free to reach out to myself or that person as proof, and distribute the information as needed to help the Predator pre-owners and/or Kevin get out of this situation as quickly and easily as possible."
... that we all would have immediately validated the information, passed it along, and saved ourselves and EVERYONE time, worry, pain, and money.