(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#7251 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I do not get why he gets a pass. He shouldn't show his face in public. He was with Kevin as Kevin was taking our money.

He does not and will not get a pass.

#7252 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You are the perfect example of why the AG has decided that they will *never* reveal themselves, after initially saying that they would with time.
Why the hell should they answer a single question from you? You've done nothing but shoot the messenger ever since this whole thing went down.
I still wonder if you told the person who bought your Predator spot that you had serious doubts/concerns about the whole project before selling to them?
I'm sure you did, given your great "concern for the community" and everything.

I had my watch set to how fast it would take you to reply to my post - surprise!

First, in fact I did have a lengthy conversation with the person who bought my spot and specifically why I was pulling out. It didn't matter to him. I also contacted him when rumors of anonymous emails were going around - still didn't bother him. He said he was a big boy and knew what he was getting into. I did my part on the "concern of the community" and based on PMs between you and I you know that. Bad form my friend, bad form.

Lastly, I have not shot the messenger. I have publicly stated, as posted in this thread and in PMs to you, I applaud AG finding out about the non-license. It's "how" they communicated, delays, confusion, and PR stunt they pulled. Always seem to deflect around the two issues. "How" Rob, "How".

Again, your reply(s) really make me go hmmm. Few friends part of AG?

-3
#7253 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

And I addressed that by saying, "If it's so easy, simple, risk-free, straightforward, and "for the community" then I can expect you to investigate these matters as well and present your findings."

Direct answer: Simple. I'm not the one that picked up the phone and called Fox. I felt something was wrong, voiced it (emphasize - voiced it) in the Predator thread and was fortunate to sell my spot months before any of this. I didn't need to take the extra step to call Fox, my gut said get out. Someone else did - good for them. Found out no license. (enter music) Theatrics ensues with "The decision" like choreography. Just as stated before, you witness a crime you report it. Period. No defense on this one my friend - black and white. As soon as they picked up the phone they became accountable.

Quoted from jonnyo:

Your response is to run back to, "It would have been so easy for them to say something!!", which, of course, is also a non-response.

Direct answer: Non-response? The response is - tell the community! I even wrote how they could have. But you're right, grown men are afraid of being honest??? Doh

Quoted from jonnyo:

Just like this whole Predator project, what you say and what you do don't add up. You say it would have been so easy and for the greater good to fling out the info, but when asked to take on such an "easy" task yourself, you dodge the question.

Direct answer: I did not make the phone call to Fox. They did. They first hand heard no license. Sling it out there. It's called accountability. Again, great they found out. It's "how" they communicated and played the drama out. Just juvenile. 1+1=2 It adds up.

Now direct question for you: Are you in AG and/or do you you know who is? Again, makes you wanna go hmmm....

#7254 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There never was an actual corporation registered, so it's not like he got "bought out" or is sitting on a pile of shares.

That might be worse for him actually . . . could be a legal partnership (basically an extent entity after the rise of LLC's nationwide . . . one would have to look at his home state's laws to see how partnerships would form there and whether he properly withdrew and what legal effect that would even have).

#7255 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Direct answer: Simple. I'm not the one that picked up the phone and called Fox. I felt something was wrong, voiced it (emphasize - voiced it) in the Predator thread and was fortunate to sell my spot months before any of this. I didn't need to take the extra step to call Fox, my gut said get out. Someone else did - good for them. Found out no license. (enter music) Theatrics ensues with "The decision" like choreography. Just as stated before, you witness a crime you report it. Period. No defense on this one my friend - black and white. As soon as they picked up the phone they became accountable.

Direct answer: Non-response? The response is - tell the community! I even wrote how they could have. But you're right, grown men are afraid of being honest??? Doh

Direct answer: I did not make the phone call to Fox. They did. They first hand heard no license. Sling it out there. It's called accountability. Again, great they found out. It's "how" they communicated and played the drama out. Just juvenile. 1+1=2 It adds up.
Now direct question for you: Are you in AG and/or do you you know who is? Again, makes you wanna go hmmm....

Lamest cop-out ever. So you didn't lift a finger in the first place so it's not your problem, but now you see fit to judge others who did. You smelled fire, sold out of your spot to save yourself, and then whistled past the graveyard all the way home with a blindfold on.

Got it. You sound like a great guy.

#7256 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Plenty of people were stating what they thought at various points along the way. People complain about negativity on these forums, but there is also a very real "positivity policing" that exists, and some people are very skilled at using to silence criticisms and opposing points of view. Lots of people had varying pieces of the puzzle, but I firmly believe that nobody but Kevin and probably Aaron K. had the whole picture, until the PBN article landed. Hell, even the AG and Martin thought that there was a possibility that last minute scrambling could save the project right til the end.
I was in on it, I had my reservations, and got out well before the $3k demand. I was honest with my friends that were still in about what I saw, but there was enough compelling evidence on all sides to make anything plausible, until PBN.
I guess what I am saying is that more voices speaking up early on wouldn't have changed much, especially since Kevin was able to manipulate people's general value of positivity, and the willingness of others to put their necks on the line to add legitimacy to his claims. I don't begrudge anyone who looked at the sum of the evidence and claims provided, and came down on the side of believing Kevin, even to the end.
I think as long as you were decent to people in however you expressed yourself, you have nothing to apologize for.

My comment must not have translated well, or you missed a few.

How many people in my area paid for the game? I only know of 1 or 2. In the future that should speak volumes. Michigan has a huge collector base, and a lot of us know eachother at least to some extent. Pay attention to the local Pinheads opinions.

#7257 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

I had my watch set to how fast it would take you to reply to my post - surprise!
First, in fact I did have a lengthy conversation with the person who bought my spot and specifically why I was pulling out. It didn't matter to him. I also contacted him when rumors of anonymous emails were going around - still didn't bother him. He said he was a big boy and knew what he was getting into. I did my part on the "concern of the community" and based on PMs between you and I you know that. Bad form my friend, bad form.
Lastly, I have not shot the messenger. I have publicly stated, as posted in this thread and in PMs to you, I applaud AG finding out about the non-license. It's "how" they communicated, delays, confusion, and PR stunt they pulled. Always seem to deflect around the two issues. "How" Rob, "How".
Again, your reply(s) really make me go hmmm. Few friends part of AG?

More deflection from you. You are good at it.

So, did you offer to do a chargeback on your CC so the person who bought your Predator spot could get their money back? Or are they shit out of luck because they paid you cash for your spot?

You already know that I have nothing to do with the AG, that I don't know a single person involved with the AG, and therefore you once again saying that I do is just further proof of your deflection/attempt to discredit me for calling you out on your hypocrisy.

#7258 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

My comment must not have translated well, or you missed a few.
How many people in my area paid for the game? I only know of 1 or 2. In the future that should speak volumes. Michigan has a huge collector base, and a lot of us know eachother at least to some extent. Pay attention to the local Pinheads opinions.

Ah, I totally didn't get that. Yes you are right, that does speak volumes.

#7259 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

I felt something was wrong, voiced it (emphasize - voiced it) in the Predator thread and was fortunate to sell my spot months before any of this.

You didn't voice any real concerns publicly in the Predator thread until *after* you sold your spot.

You need to be careful when you say things. Some of us actually pay attention.

This is your post from 4 months ago, showing how you needed the communities help to get a refund on your Predator since Kevin wasn't responding:

Quoted from badbilly27:

Sorry to do this but I guess I require pinside help like a few others before me in this thread. I've tried to go direct email route and SkitB support has gone dark again.
Situation changed for me back in September and I requested a refund (#9, Production #14). I did receive a reply from Skit B many weeks later. Fast forward, we've been in communications again over last three weeks (very minimal) requesting refund again but no action. Like two other pinsiders before me in this thread, I would appreciate assistance. (Jet or whysnow maybe you guys can email in a favor).
I believe in SkitB and the Predator pin will be a success. Good group of guys over there and fellow collectors. I'm sorry I had to post on pinside request for assistance - I normally wouldn't - but hopefully this expedites my request and allows someone else to move in my coveted spot.

You believed in SkitB and you believed that Predator would be a success. Good group of guys!

This was a lucky situation for someone else, as they could swoop in and "move in to your coveted spot"!

lol

-4
#7260 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Lamest cop-out ever. So you didn't lift a finger in the first place so it's not your problem, but now you see fit to judge others who did. You smelled fire, sold out of your spot to save yourself, and then whistled past the graveyard all the way home with a blindfold on.
Got it. You sound like a great guy.

Reading comprehension. I posted my concerns (publicly under my own name), shared them with buyer, and yes, pulled out. I did not call Fox. AG did. Accountability.

Quoted from badbilly27:

Now direct question for you: Are you in AG and/or do you you know who is? Again, makes you wanna go hmmm....

I didn't see your answer. I answered every question you posed me - directly. Deflecting again?

-10
#7261 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You didn't voice any real concerns publicly in the Predator thread until *after* you sold your spot.
You need to be careful when you say things. Some of us actually pay attention.
This is your post from 4 months ago, showing how you needed the communities help to get a refund on your Predator since Kevin wasn't responding:

Wrong. Dig deeper Rob to slam anyone looking into AG. Check all my posts on the UV light issue. Blondetall will also confirm it got heated on the forum between me and her husband over said issue, that we decided to take the discussion into PM to sort out together. I vocalized my concern - that was the biggie to me. The website disappearing also was a concern. But the license, I never questioned. Neither did many. Check that - besides AG. Again, thank you.

Quoted from RobT:

You believed in SkitB and you believed that Predator would be a success. Good group of guys!
This was a lucky situation for someone else, as they could swoop in and "move in to your coveted spot"!
lol

Again, class act Rob. We've had the discussion in PM but defend AG.

All in context of the time of that post and what was known to the community which was - nothing. Why edit out the date? I met Kevin and he was nice - like many would attest to prior to all this blowing up. The time of my post, the license issue did not hit a head. I had no clue of a license issue like many. Just odd website was down - in hindsight we should have all picked up more on it. At the time I bailed, I thought Kevin was still cool but things didn't feel right to me based on the UV lighting and lackluster showing at Expo. Kevin also suggested some "pre-order special activities" at Expo for owners and did not follow through, which bummed me out. At that point in time, still a nice guy to me and many - I just chose to leave the project because UV bummer and failed promise.

Per my post a few up the line (nice deflection Rob), the person who took my spot we spoke at length and he was eyes wide open in.

Your research reminds me of someone...on the tip of my tongue....it will come to me. Makes you want to go hmmm

Oh, hey Rob. Do a favor for the group. Answer the question Johnny Oh keeps deflecting away. Are you or anyone you know part of AG?

-6
#7262 4 years ago

Augustine-Quote.jpg

For those playing at home, pay close attention to those who are typing away on their computer to support AG "how" they communicated. It's like a where's Waldo. If you look hard enough you just might find....

-3
#7263 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

An individual (a Snowden) had gotten through to FOX. The FOX rep stated to the Snowden that there was no license agreement for the game to be made by Kevin and Skit-B. Being the unknown type that they are, they couldn't find a way to convey this information to the masses (by way of, I don't know, a wordpress webblog or something 'unknown-like') that stated exactly what they had just found out so other people in the burning building could immediately take steps to either confirm the information and bail, ignore it completely, or simply try to get a refund (which we know wouldn't come from Kevin), be ignored, and then still be able to file a chargeback with PayPal and get their funds back because that information could have been available within the 180 day chargeback period? Nah, give it to someone else to write an article that will come out innnnnn, ehh, it's coming out eventually.
They instead kept all of the truthful information to themselves and only let the inner-Snowden's circle know about the confirmed information. A point could be made that some were trolling a few members in the thread, and that should have been taken seriously as to the actual state of the build; but a trolling/condescending post won't garner anywhere near the attention or action when some anonymous person makes a claim that they talked to FOX directly and they stated that no license was in place - i.e. "check it out for yourself, here is the generic phone/email/whatever, confirm for yourself and decide if you still want to stay in on this project or file a chargeback through PayPal."

I do have someone to pin it on, it's Kevin Kulek. That doesn't excuse how selfishly a person/group acted with first-hand knowledge that the entire thing was BS from the minute the FOX rep confirmed there was no license.

Guesses are great, aren't they? I'd also guess that when a person suggests, directly, that they confirmed a specific piece of information with the IP holder, and recommended that others check-in on it before deciding what to do going forward, that a MAJORITY of the people involved would have followed-up immediately and found the BS as well. After that, the majority would have been able to chargeback with no issue at all. This would leave the only person left to get (justifiably) burned, Kevin Kulek.

Yes, clearly I'm only thinking of me personally... I'm not thinking of the group of good people who lost a collective sum of around $350k combined (and that's a conservative estimation). The information that the Snowden dug up, and how they actually went about presenting it maybe saved $50k for the lucky folks that have a gracious chargeback period through their CC company (not including all of the OG Snowden's, who thankfully were made whole EZPZ (even that lucky last fellow getting his CC chargeback at the 11th hour)).
Since you're good at guessing, do you want to guess how much of the groups money would have been saved if they anonymously presented the information when they found it, and urged people to check as well?

Yup. Well done. It would seem that the AG is "lawyer heavy" and at the end of the day, the brethren of attorneys won out. FOX IP lawyer asked his "brothers(s)" to do him a solid, and he/they did. At the expense of Predator investors and in spite of pinheads in general. Case closed on the priorities of the AG. Kevin is frying in a different pan.

And anyone claiming that the hurt for the investors is the same either way is full of it. NOW Kevin has the fear of a FOX lawsuit on his hands, thereby probably sealing the fate of any investors getting their money back. Without all the AG investigations and histrionics, people would have eventually lost faith and asked for refunds and maybe, just maybe, had a chance in hell to get something on their dollar. Now? No.

-2
#7264 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

More deflection from you. You are good at it.
So, did you offer to do a chargeback on your CC so the person who bought your Predator spot could get their money back? Or are they shit out of luck because they paid you cash for your spot?
You already know that I have nothing to do with the AG, that I don't know a single person involved with the AG, and therefore you once again saying that I do is just further proof of your deflection/attempt to discredit me for calling you out on your hypocrisy.

I'm not sure what deflection on my part you are referring to. I'm the only one answering direct.

My spot was sold - it's over. I was out. We talked at length, I cautioned, he said no worries I'm a big boy willing to take the risk. Great guy to boot and a local. No I won't refund the money, as it's Kevin's to refund. But you keep trying to chip away and attack me and my name. Oh wait, that's because I post and send PMs under my name.

So let me get this straight. The Predator thread was too fan and pro-support for people to voice opinions against the project. AG, grown men, were afraid of being attacked so did the theatrics. Now with all revealed, everyone speaks up about how we should question things in the future. Anyone who questions AG on "how" poorly they choose to communicate is attacked.

Hypocrisy? Me thinks he does protest too much Mr. President.

-3
#7265 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Oh, hey Rob. Do a favor for the group. Answer the question Johnny Oh keeps deflecting away. Are you or anyone you know part of AG?

Rarehero - I love your thumbs downs as they are so consistent. I pose the same question to you. Come on in the water is warm. (Humming California dreaming)

Edit: I'm going to moderate myself. This thread should be focused on refunds. There will be time to continue to debate how the community should interact with each other and not be an AG. Someone wants to chat with me, my PM is open.

But, I'd still respect an answer to my direct questions previously posted. Johnny Oh and Rarehero??

12
#7266 4 years ago

Wow.

It's like you are on a witch hunt. Completely pathetic.

-2
#7267 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Wow.
It's like you are on a witch hunt. Completely pathetic.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

#7268 4 years ago

#7269 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

cat-fight2.jpg

just add a ball gag and some candle wax and we're cooking with fire!

#7270 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Pot. Kettle. Black.

That doesn't even make sense. I'm not the one who is intent on discovering who is in the AG. That would be you.

Funny how anyone who disagrees with you on this issue must be part of the AG.

-5
#7271 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

That doesn't even make sense. I'm not the one who is intent on discovering who is in the AG. That would be you.

Your disdain for anyone questioning AG "how" they communicated is pathetic.

Let me suggest if you would like to continue this, bring it to my PM - again. I think we agree to disagree on AG "how" they communicated.

My discussion was with Johnny Oh not you until you jumped in. Again, PM if you want to try again.

#7272 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Your disdain for anyone questioning AG "how" they communicated is pathetic.
Let me suggest if you would like to continue this, bring it to my PM - again. I think we agree to disagree on AG "how" they communicated.
My discussion was with Johnny Oh not you until you jumped in. Again, PM if you want to try again.

PM's sound much needed at this point.

20
#7273 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

No I won't refund the money, as it's Kevin's to refund.

So, you sell your Predator spot to someone who pays you cash for it, and you won't help him get a refund by contacting your CC company to do a chargeback which, if successful, would allow you to get him his money back?

Yet...the AG are a bunch of douchebags because they didn't speak up sooner to help the community?

Quoted from badbilly27:

Hypocrisy? Me thinks he does protest too much Mr. President.

You don't see the hypocrisy here? You wanted the AG to act differently...for the good of the community. But you won't even help someone who paid you cash for your Predator spot by contacting your CC company to do a chargeback?

Quoted from badbilly27:

My discussion was with Johnny Oh not you until you jumped in.

Oh, my bad. I apologize for interrupting your private discussion on a public pinball forum.

#7274 4 years ago

1. wheres the money.
2. how much of it is actually left. and if there is, most certainly not in his name ?
3. is he going for bankruptcy
4. would be nice to at least get some sort of statement via his legal rep. surely u can do that.

-8
#7275 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

So, you sell your Predator spot to someone who pays you cash for it, and you won't help him get a refund by contacting your CC company to do a chargeback which, if successful, would allow you to get him his money back?
Yet...the AG are a bunch of douchebags because they didn't speak up sooner to help the community?

Cash transactions on both fronts. Game and spot were transferred to new buyer officially (well, as official as it was at the time) with Kevin's email approval to both of us. Keep slinging away Rob, the truth will set you and your friends free. Wait for it: lime lime, lowepg, jiffy, rarehero and well I'll let all the other readers see who thumbs up your continued attempt to attack and deflect.

Again, I invite you to PM as you're going off the deep end. It's the "how" it was communicated Rob not that they did it that is always been in question. PM is your friend.

-6
#7276 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Few friends part of AG?

Yeah Id say really close friends. You can tell by the staunch support of all that is the AGOCJ and downvotes of anyone who opposes.

#7277 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Lamest cop-out ever. So you didn't lift a finger in the first place so it's not your problem, but now you see fit to judge others who did. You smelled fire, sold out of your spot to save yourself, and then whistled past the graveyard all the way home with a blindfold on.
Got it. You sound like a great guy.

Sorry but this is out of line and absolutely untrue. I talked to him when he was getting out and he knew as much as me about what was going on and found someone to take his spot. He didn't find out it was a scam till well after he got out. What Bill has stated has been true.

21
#7278 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Your research reminds me of someone...on the tip of my tongue....it will come to me. Makes you want to go hmmm
Oh, hey Rob. Do a favor for the group. Answer the question Johnny Oh keeps deflecting away. Are you or anyone you know part of AG?

I haven't been deflecting it, I've been ignoring it. What is this? The House Un-American Activities Committee? Get real.

But ok, it's time to come clean. I am part of an organization. No, you've never heard of us. Yes, we control all of pinball.

John Borg wanted to stop putting stand-ups on the sides of every machine. We made him keep doing it.

Everyone knew Redemption tickets were a guaranteed hit but we squashed that.

Photoshop art? Yes, that was us too. We only let Dirty Donny do hand-drawn art after he joined us and relinquished his immortal soul.

We have a secret plan to slowly but surely train all the world's offspring to become left-handed, and then switch the plunger to the left side. Why? JUST BECAUSE!

We are: P.A.G.A.N.S. Pinballers Against Goodness And Normalcy.

See? Now THAT was a deflection.

17
#7279 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

For those playing at home,

Well, I'm playing at home, feeling very sorry for those caught up in this, and I'm simply recalling the path taken by the French Revolution, and how, once all the aristocrats had been taken care of, the beast that was the mob moved on to executing its own, for its existence was based on beheading, and once the beast had been born and needed to feed its own existence, then the initial cause was forgotten, and its raison d'etre was to behead, so the targets simply shifted so that it could continue to execute.

#7280 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Yeah Id say really close friends. You can tell by the staunch support of all that is the AGOCJ and downvotes of anyone who opposes.

Wow. That's some superb detective work there! Who ever would have put the facts together like you and BadBilly have here?! Amazing!

#7281 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Sorry but this is out of line and absolutely untrue. I talked to him when he was getting out and he knew as much as me about what was going on and found someone to take his spot. He didn't find out it was a scam till well after he got out. What Bill has stated has been true.

I'm not questioning his truthiness, I am criticizing his moral posturing. He didn't do what the AG did, and he never will. He just sees fit to criticize.

-7
#7282 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

See? Now THAT was a deflection.

Yup. Never answered the question. Telling isn't it.

-4
#7283 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

I'm not questioning his truthiness, I am criticizing his moral posturing. He didn't do what the AG did, and he never will. He just sees fit to criticize.

I applauded what they found out and criticize how you guys communicated it.

#7284 4 years ago

Reading the last few posts, brings up a very interesting scenario. I'm not a lawyer, but I know enough of the law that this could pose a problem for some people.

Anyone who purchased Predator from Kevin, easily has a legal claim against him. Now what about the people who purchased one's Predator order? I would think that anyone who sold their Predator spot, really isn't in the clear. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe they carry a liability as well.

I keep repeating myself that the people who ordered Predator need to file a class action lawsuit against Kevin. You need counsel. Why would Kevin issue refunds? With no threat of punishment, he can hold onto the money and nothing will happen to him. You need to go after him. Charges need to be filed.

If I read correctly, I thought one person said they had mailed Kevin a check. I would ask a lawyer, but I believe that is considered mail fraud.

What Kevin did is 100% ILLEGAL. Get counsel, press charges, go after him. Do not let him off the hook. Before anyone says that he is an S-Corp or LLC, it doesn't matter. Officers/owners of the company are still liable for illegal activities.

I feel terrible for everyone who is out money in this whole fiasco. People work hard for their money.

26
#7285 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

For those playing at home, pay close attention to those who are typing away on their computer to support AG "how" they communicated. It's like a where's Waldo. If you look hard enough you just might find....

Quoted from badbilly27:

Now direct question for you: Are you in AG and/or do you you know who is? Again, makes you wanna go hmmm....

Quoted from badbilly27:

Again, your reply(s) really make me go hmmm. Few friends part of AG?

Quoted from badbilly27:

Rarehero - I love your thumbs downs as they are so consistent. I pose the same question to you. Come on in the water is warm. (Humming California dreaming)

I'm thumbs downing you because you've become Joseph McCarthy. You're being disgusting, creepy, and slandering. That is why I'm thumbs downing you. Are you so shocked that someone might think you're being a maniac? Is that so unthinkable? Are you that self unware? Anyone who thinks whistleblower witch-hunters are dicks must be AG?

Quoted from badbilly27:

Anyone who questions AG on "how" poorly they choose to communicate is attacked.

Anyone who disagrees with your witch hunt is labeled AG or friends of AG. Hypocrite.

My stance is this: Kevin Kulek is responsible for this situation. Those who did the research are not accountable for anything wrong. I don't want to keep repeating my opinion on the matter...so anyone who blames the messenger or witch hunts will get a thumbs down or downvote as it's now called...because downvote means "DISAGREE". You gonna point your creepy witch hunting fingers on me for disagreeing with you? What do you hope to accomplish. Ooooh, derp derp derp - you were right. I'm the leader....I destroyed Predator...I couldn't have done it without my buddy Rob. Derp derp derp, you win, Mr. McCarthy!

-13
#7286 4 years ago
Quoted from ledge:

1. wheres the money.
2. how much of it is actually left. and if there is, most certainly not in his name ?
3. is he going for bankruptcy
4. would be nice to at least get some sort of statement via his legal rep. surely u can do that.

And back to the refunds and what I think we can all agree on. Will the representatives from TX & CA concur?

#7287 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Will the representatives from TX & CA concur?

Will McCarthy ever stop his slanderous witch hunt?

-13
#7288 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Wow. That's some superb detective work there! Who ever would have put the facts together like you and BadBilly have here?! Amazing!

Thank you, I think so to. It wasn't to hard to crack the code.

#7289 4 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Well, I'm playing at home, feeling very sorry for those caught up in this, and I'm simply recalling the path taken by the French Revolution, and how, once all the aristocrats had been taken care of, the beast that was the mob moved on to executing its own, for its existence was based on beheading, and once the beast had been born and needed to feed its own existence, then the initial cause was forgotten, and its reason detre was to behead, so the targets simply shifted so that it could continue to execute.

^ that...

#7290 4 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Well, I'm playing at home, feeling very sorry for those caught up in this, and I'm simply recalling the path taken by the French Revolution, and how, once all the aristocrats had been taken care of, the beast that was the mob moved on to executing its own, for its existence was based on beheading, and once the beast had been born and needed to feed its own existence, then the initial cause was forgotten, and its reason detre was to behead, so the targets simply shifted so that it could continue to execute.

Interesting way of putting it. Spot on.

-1
#7291 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm thumbs downing you because you've become Joseph McCarthy. You're being disgusting, creepy, and slandering. That is why I'm thumbs downing you. Are you so shocked that someone might think you're being a maniac? Is that so unthinkable? Are you that self unware? Anyone who thinks whistleblower witch-hunters are dicks must be AG?

Anyone who disagrees with your witch hunt is labeled AG or friends of AG. Hypocrite.
My stance is this: Kevin Kulek is responsible for this situation. Those who did the research are not accountable for anything wrong. I don't want to keep repeating my opinion on the matter...so anyone who blames the messenger or witch hunts will get a thumbs down or downvote as it's now called...because downvote means "DISAGREE". You gonna point your creepy witch hunting fingers on me for disagreeing with you? What do you hope to accomplish. Ooooh, derp derp derp - you were right. I'm the leader....I destroyed Predator...I couldn't have done it without my buddy Rob. Derp derp derp, you win, Mr. McCarthy!

Can we hug it out? You seem mad bro...

33
#7292 4 years ago

Amex Chargeback update on my side:

Got refunded in part (pending "final ruling" - whatever that means). Got refunded in my own currency, so no bonus due to changing exchange rates.

I paid Skit-B via multiple PP payments ("saving" $ for predator whenever I had some cash left). Had I known earlier (Nov 2014), I would have been refunded an extra $250 due to the 13-month limit imposed for dispute. (Anyone else with an Amex in the US heard the same thing?)

Time to move on for me. I can live with this $250 difference.

-9
#7293 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm thumbs downing you because you've become Joseph McCarthy. You're being disgusting, creepy, and slandering. That is why I'm thumbs downing you. Are you so shocked that someone might think you're being a maniac? Is that so unthinkable? Are you that self unware? Anyone who thinks whistleblower witch-hunters are dicks must be AG?

I am very self aware. I hope you are.

I have, as many others, pointed out AG found out really important info that impacted pre-order and the pinball community. Sincere, thumbs up. We are gravely disappointed at the antics and how the info was communicated and the ensuing delay that cost friends opportunities for refund through CC. Sjsilver post just one page back does a good job summarizing a similar frustration as others have earlier in this thread. Every time this perspective is brought up, the OP is attacked by a contingent of CA & TX pinsiders. So I ask a simple question to those who frequently attack and thumbs down (3 people total) - are you part of AG? Because you three sure are acting defensive.

Witchunt? McCarthy? Save the dramatics for a Family Guy episode. I asked a question, not of the entire group but of those who have been the most outspoken in posting and consistent thumbs down against anyone who critiques the "how" AG communicated. Three outspoken people. Interesting only one chose to answer direct (RobT). You just start name calling and more attacking. It was a simple question that really got under your skin for some reason. My answer would be simply - "No I am not nor do I know anyone. I just support AG and how they communicated." It's a question Greg and you turn it into something personal.

What do I hope to accomplish? Transparency, something Kevin took away when he lied about the license. We have a community trying to get their money back and heal. There is angst because of the "how" it was communicated. A community dialogue would heal the rift. If longtime pinsiders/collectors part of AG, their reputation will support the community healing. While everything stays secret, frustration grows because of dialogue missing. Two-way dialogue.

#7294 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

See, because the AG has refused to show themselves, and have stated that they would deny it forever, and because Whysnow repeatedly called it the Texas group (I assume he's the main source of that, when he was calling out Jared, and I don't recall any other primary source for that claim), ANYONE from Texas who has a thought on this is under suspicion, even if they deny it. Another reason I wish they would just stand by their convictions that they did the right thing and own it. The sooner the entire story gets cleared up, the better for moving on.
Seriously, people are going to be pissed that they handed it off to PBN and they sat on it for months, and people are going to be pissed about how they handled it, and some people are going to be pissed that they did anything at all. If they are such warriors for truth, they should honestly assess how they handled it, own the shit they have conviction of being right on, and apologize for anything they might, in retrospect, feel shame about. Unlike Kevin, no one is going to sue them, no one is going to harm them, they aren't in legal trouble, they will just have some people on the internet angry at them. Part of being an adult is realizing you can't make everyone happy, and when you realize you actually wronged someone, all you can do is sincerely apologize and let THEM decide if and when to forgive you.
Bottom line, more secrecy isn't helping the community.
-Stephen Silver (fake internet names are dumb.)
PS. My meaningless vote: I'm fine with them handing off their big piece of info to PBN for respectability and due diligence, as the pre-PBN article environment was very non-receptive to license claims, especially with Keven letting others vouch for it on their reputations. It's unfortunate that said due diligence took so long, partly because of misguided hope that the project could be saved, that chargeback windows closed. But I'll give Martin the benefit of the doubt for not knowing what the average chargeback window was and thinking that no amount of rushing to print would have helped people with any refund options. They owe Pinside an apology for trying to have it both ways: giving responsibility to PBN, but also smugly taunting people, "preparing" an inner circle, and pompously making themselves the center of the story at every turn. If they wanted their actions to be vindicated so badly, they should have owned it and immediately brought all their evidence forward. If they cared about it being done right because they weren't 100% sure they had the whole story, then they should have handed it off to the adults and not done the whole cloak and dagger, secret inner circle warnings bullshit to increase the theater around the final reveal. It didn't help anyone.

Solid points and great summary of feelings floating around.

15
#7295 4 years ago

I'm going to exit this thread stage left because I think I've done everything I wanted to do as it regards this whole Predator Fraud thing.

The main thing that initially upset me were the early accusations that PBN aka Martin Ayub were, in some part, responsible for this because of the so-called "timing". Those erroneous arguments were defeated and he's out of the conversation (thankfully). I have known Martin for several years, and have known him to be nothing but a stand-up guy and the paragon of reliable reporting in Pinball.

Yes, as I've mentioned a couple times, I've been a whistle blower, too, and I know the uncertainty, personal risk (both legal and professional) and potential backlash of being in that position. I went through it and saw my job put in jeopardy regardless that I was "the good guy". And that's also why I took a personal interest to defend the actions of those who did likewise with this Predator thing. Did it touch a nerve with your's truly? Yeah, maybe.

I don't disagree that their news was delivered with some smugness and self-righteousness, and that was a mistake on their part. Over-focusing on that was ignoring the bigger picture and shooting the messenger. I do believe they made the responsible move turning the info over to one of the most trusted names in Pinball for due-diligence, and I have no doubt that Martin did that. The unfortunate reality is that proving something which could likely end a company, affect livelihoods, affect supplier revenues and affect customers, with a responsible level of certainty, takes time. In that time, some may suffer. That's unfortunate, but that unavoidable circumstance does not override their responsibility to certainty. It's a fact of life.

I also challenged that if the criticizing parties were so invested, as they claim to be to the greater pinball good, they could initiate their own investigations of JPOP, which is a situation still unfolding but with a lot of red flags. Or they could do work toward acquiring some open-and-shut evidence for Predator folks to expedite legal proceedings. So far, that's been met with no response, and instead, witch-hunts for whether I or others are associated with the AG. So, to them, I say, if you're not willing to do the leg work but simultaneously take such moral high grounds, you're hypocrites.

The point has been made to the rational folks here, and the rest will never be convinced. So be it.

In the end, this Predator fiasco is a black eye for pinball and the effects will be felt for years. Pre-order pinball is definitely dead. Predator is dead. Pinball will go on, hopefully a little wiser for this lousy lesson.

#7296 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Yeah Id say really close friends. You can tell by the staunch support of all that is the AGOCJ and downvotes of anyone who opposes.

Please step back to reality. The same reality that made it painfully obvious that this would end badly.

We are down voting the same cracks in logic that helped create this mess.

49
#7297 4 years ago

There's a whole lot of personal entitlement being thrown around in this thread. The only person that owed anyone anything was Kevin Kulek. Not the AG....Not Martin....Not Fox. I'm guessing there's a generational difference here that influences one's mindset. There's the group that grew up with everyone gets a trophy and there's the group that learned only those that put in the work get rewarded.

Bottom line, anyone here had the same opportunity to contact Fox and find out about the IP just like the AG did. Those guys did not put on some superhero suit to fight crime. They got off their ass, picked up the phone, and made a phone call. Same thing anyone else could have done to protect their interests. Don't be butthurt now and deflect blame to anyone but Kevin because you didn't do your own due diligence. The writing was on the wall a loooonnnng time...the clues were there.

And for the record I am not part of the AG and have no idea who any of them are...and don't care.

20
#7298 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

There's a whole lot of personal entitlement being thrown around in this thread. The only person that owed anyone anything was Kevin Kulek. Not the AG....Not Martin....Not Fox. I'm guessing there's a generational difference here that influences one's mindset. There's the group that grew up with everyone gets a trophy and there's the group that learned only those that put in the work get rewarded.
Bottom line, anyone here had the same opportunity to contact Fox and find out about the IP just like the AG did. Those guys did not put on some superhero suit to fight crime. They got off their ass, picked up the phone, and made a phone call. Same thing anyone else could have done to protect their interests. Don't be butthurt now and deflect blame to anyone but Kevin because you didn't do your own due diligence. The writing was on the wall a loooonnnng time...the clues were there.
And for the record I am not part of the AG and have no idea who any of them are...and don't care.

Yep.

Go back to the first page, and read. People were being accused of calling Fox to find out the truth 5 months ago, and the same people who are mad that no one told them were mad at others for trying to prove it.

The pinside has new clothes.

#7299 4 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

He does not and will not get a pass.

gandalf-you-shall-not-pass.jpg
#7300 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

gandalf-you-shall-not-pass.jpg

LOL.gif

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