(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 34 days ago by Cobra99
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-5
#4751 4 years ago
Quoted from foxct:

I have mixed feeling about Mr. X as well. But, there's a difference between requesting your own refund and going public that Kevin is defrauding people. The latter could result in a lawsuit from Kevin against the anonymous group for interfering with his contracts, liable, etc. The anonymous group were in a no win situation. They would need hard facts (copies of the C&D letters) to go public and not potentially expose themselves to liability as well.

YES! The fact is they're complicit in this. If any of us found out there was no license we would've come here and layed it out in the open...the whole "To catch a Predator" "we are an anonymous group" shitshow was just weird and juvenile. I've been told there maybe a pinball competitor involved, also a Pinsider that's in the entertainment industry, this will taint their motive for ever.

#4752 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I'm just saying, before you start call out people as immoral for buying a unlicensed game that should have been licensed, you might want to take an indepth look at your own buying history. I wouldn't dare pass judgment on someone for buying something unlicensed, known fake, or some other item like that, because we all have something we bought that probably falls in that category. And if we want to keep seeing cool shit become available, we need to not care either way.

that's how the Chinese took my job! did not pay design people.same as stealing! no one cares until it bites them.i don't care if its a topper a machine or anything else

#4753 4 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

More than your anonymous group ever had. Was dealing with some people to organize 11 games in one batch, none currently got a refund. I'm in with 3 games one close friend with another 2 and others with much more, so definitely IN from the first minute. But that's not the important question, or?
Here it comes:
So reading your article, FOX did hear the first time in November 2014 about the Predator Pinball initiated by you / your anonymous group? Is that right?

Umm why are you saying "your anonymous group" and "your article"? I read the freakin links that people posted on here. You said they got themselves refunds before releasing what they had, I recalled reading one of them was still owed money, so I posted a link???

13
#4754 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

So you want other pinball players to pay for your loss? If you bought a stock and it went to zero, do you want other investors to pay for your loss? Tis is not like a family lost their house in a fire and need charity to provide a shelter and food for small children. This is not like a 10 year old boy/girl having a brain tumor and needing funds to go to Disney World. This is people (some silly for closing their eyes at all the red flags) that bought an object from a crooked vendor. You learn from your mistakes. Try not to do the same thing again in the future. Asking for others to pay for your mistake is way out of line imo.

I'm all for being charitable and hear the sentiment...but I have to agree...this is not a charitable situation. I feel really bad for folks that have funds that won't be refunded. But it's a little ridiculous to suggest that others should donate to help recoup money for folks that were wealthy enough to layout a few grand as an investment. We've all lost money at some point in this hobby...wether it was buying parts that didn't work quite right...mods that ended up being junk...or perhaps seeing the market value of a machine drop. To equate this predator fiasco to a true charitable worthy event is a total stretch.

#4755 4 years ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

that's how the Chinese took my job! did not pay design people.same as stealing! no one cares until it bites them.i don't care if its a topper a machine or anything else

Totally different animal if you're coping a product already out there. Whole different story if you're making something completely unrelated to the item, that nobody would ever make or try to cash in on. Chinese knockoffs are nothing new and nothing anyone can do about them regardless, but it doesn't have anything to do with this. The only way it would be the same, is if Stern Released WWE, and someone else released WWE for a cheaper price with cheaper parts.

14
#4756 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Fox, Hell, they can't even report regular news worth a shit, without making stuff up themselves. Fox themselves, are full of shit, and make up stories and allegations without any facts to back it up.


Your comments reeked of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility as long as it "feels good" - now we know why...

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Besides that, pinball has a history of being the bad boy hobby. The rough crowd. Crowds that walk across the street WITHOUT a cross walk. Yea, that's the shit i'm talking about. Playing games in a smoky underground club, and having the bartender pay you out because you got the match. Oh yea, that's the shit. We are bad boys. We buy shit we like regardless of license. Damn straight.

You and Kevin appear to be kindred spirits....

#4757 4 years ago

Kevin must be sleeping in this morning?? No new email from him yet? I can't believe he wrote last night that "he's still here" and "working through the process". This is clearly someone who does not care about processes much less accountability.

#4758 4 years ago
Quoted from Slash:

Umm why are you saying "your anonymous group" and "your article"? ...

Because you mentioned: One of US still does ...

#4759 4 years ago

Also, one more thought for the few folks who seem very angry that "Mr X" brought this to light:

It is in no way fair to REAL pinball manufacturers (such as Stern and JJP) that some kid can skirt the entire licensing process to build pinball machines that directly take away sales from them. If I were them, I would be ticked.

17
#4760 4 years ago

The deed is done. Filed a dispute claim with my credit card company. Not sure if it will go any where but it is an attempt.

This may piss off some folks but I am not willing to accept a partial refund or a pro-rata refund or a bunch of parts and some money. I want all of my money back. Kevin can sell off his personal items to raise the cash to pay every single person that sent him money for this "vaporware". Anything less than him paying every cent back let's him off the hook in a small way. Not acceptable in my book. After that if he is taken to task by Fox, that is of his doing.

#4761 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

here we go pointing fingers again. I don't think it's this at all. Not having business sense or not knowing what you're doing, doesn't automatically make you a con artist. I really don't think he was out to fraud people. If all the money is gone and nothing was made, then it could be a scam or really poor business decisions.

Soliciting funds from Pinside, reaching your "Full" mark and never returning. Then purging all reference of Predator from your web site and emails. Then never securing the manufacturing building you broadcasted to the world you were doing any day now (remember had that executed there would now be a physical address, somewhere you could nock on the door and expose this whole lie).

Well...yes those things make you a con. truth hurts I understand, still a con.

#4762 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

probably not, but if you want to keep seeing cool shit for your game, you really can't give a shit about it. Otherwise you are going to be very limited on bonus goodies, and the ones you do see, with be high priced because you have more hands in the pile trying to get a cut. And some are very unreasonable to deal with.

That's not true, there are lots of mods sold out there that don't infringe on IP

#4763 4 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

But why they didn't came out with that right at the moment they started their own refunding or at least in November at that time they got the info from FOX? For many pinsiders (including me and my friends) PAYPAL 180 day payback rule would be active, now 4 months later it doesn't work any longer.

So you're blaming other people than the true culprit, you've got to get this out of your head, this idea that someone else is to blame rather than Kevin himself.

#4764 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Who wants to lay odds on Stern picking up the actual Predator license now that this whole kerfuffle proved interest in the game? heh!

It probably cost a shit load of cash, to not only get the license, but secure actors' rights to use their voices. Probably one of the reasons there is no cast call outs in TWD

But it would be awesome, I would be a buyer

#4765 4 years ago

Am I the only one that is getting flashbacks from Wayne and the MM fiasco? You would have thought most would have learned from 6 years ago not to preorder shit. I keep saying it, people keep doing it. If spooky pinball can make games without preorder money, so can others.

#4766 4 years ago

Trying to work out what kind of person could do this. This kind of person certainly could......

Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

#4767 4 years ago

I care if something is blatantly ripping off something else; some of it may look cool but I doubt I need anything bad enough to steal it.

I am not perfect by any means, but when I think about my life compared to most of the world's I just have to shake my head at the thought of stealing a piece of entertainment "Just because I can".

#4768 4 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

That's not true, there are lots of mods sold out there that don't infringe on IP

But there is a lot of cool shit that does.

32
#4769 4 years ago

Dude, STOP!

No one cares about your theory of moral/immoral buyers.

-1
#4770 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

You would have thought most would have learned from 6 years ago not to preorder shit. I keep saying it, people keep doing it.

Captain_obvious.jpeg

#4771 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Your comments reeked of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility as long as it "feels good" - now we know why...

You and Kevin appear to be kindred spirits....

I like Neo, he's a benefit to pinball, but with these statement I agree.

-5
#4772 4 years ago

blame who you want, but the only person you really can blame is yourself, for preordering shit in the first place. None of this would have happened if people didn't preorder. Plain and simple.

#4773 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

But there is a lot of cool shit that does.

Like what?

#4774 4 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

Because you mentioned: One of US still does ...

Lol go read the bloody link I copied and pasted that straight from there. In that article they break it up with their own questions/headings that they then go and answer themselves. Here it is again, I'll wait here patiently for your apology once you have actually looked at it properly.

But do you have “skin in the game” ?
One of us still does actually, yes. Still not refunded, and have been trying since Q4 2014. Two of us were pre-owners, but got out last year, early, successfully. The rest were never pre-owners, but were leading voices of skepticism during the height of “License-Gate” on Pinside back in late 2014.
https://predatorpinball.wordpress.com

12
#4775 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

blame who you want, but the only person you really can blame is yourself, for preordering shit in the first place. None of this would have happened if people didn't preorder. Plain and simple.

Dude, I agree 100% with that sentiment (obviously) but WTF good does that do these guys now.

That's like walking up to people that are standing outside their house that just burned to the ground and telling them they should have had a sprinkler system.

YES, you'd be right, but YES they'd be right in telling you to shutthefuckup and/or knocking you on your ass.

-2
#4776 4 years ago

I got some pretty damn cool toppers, translites and seen some other great stuff out there. Tron arcade mod is pretty damn awesome......list goes on and on.

Quoted from lowepg:

Dude, I agree 100% with that sentiment (obviously) but WTF good does that do these guys now.
That's like walking up to people that are standing outside their house that just burned to the ground and telling them they should have had working smoke alarms.
YES, you'd be right, but YES they'd be right in telling you to shutthefuckup and/or knocking you on your ass.

btw, if they are standing outside, they would have had good smoke alarms.

11
#4777 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

blame who you want, but the only person you really can blame is yourself, for preordering shit in the first place. None of this would have happened if people didn't preorder. Plain and simple.

Nope, I don't blame victims, that's like blaming a woman dressed in a mini skirt and short top for her own rape. Blame the person who did the crime, the guy obviously lied multiple times. Perhaps right away he was on the up and up, really just wanted to make a cool game. But when it comes down to it, it did turn into a con as soon as he accepted money from people without having a license of any type, and TELLING THEM ALL HE DID. You might be able to get away with it for something like Duck Hunt, but Predator, come on, that is a massive license and still a big deal today.

#4778 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

You would have thought most would have learned from 6 years ago not to preorder shit.

Predator came around the start of the recent pinball surge. It was many people's first NIB (or supposed to be). What happened 6 years ago was way before many's time.

#4779 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I got some pretty damn cool toppers, translites and seen some other great stuff out there. Tron arcade mod is pretty damn awesome......list goes on and on.

So call 'em up, get this sorted out.

#4780 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

blame who you want, but the only person you really can blame is yourself, for preordering shit in the first place. None of this would have happened if people didn't preorder. Plain and simple.

That's not fair....Kevin is culpable, not the people that chose to believe his statement of fact that he had a license for Predator and was capable of building the machine. That's like blaming the victim of a carjacking for driving in the wrong part of town at the wrong time.

-9
#4781 4 years ago

I like the stock analogy better. It's more to the truth than anything else. You are putting money into something that has yet to be made. Plenty of companies go belly up trying to make a product and find out costs are higher than expected. Everyone that put into that company loses their ass when shit fall apart. This is no different.

12
#4782 4 years ago

Ive been watching from the sidelines and I have no horse in this race. I will say some of you are throwing out some lame stuff here. BOTTOM LINE = Buyers were lied too and were also avoided. The ONLY person responsible for this is the person they sent money too. The rest of the finger pointing and yelling is just dumb. It looks like the person you sent money too was nor forth right end of story. From my view point this is a recover mission not a rescue. I hope I am wrong for my friends that have money in it. Good Luck.
P.S.
I hope that this puts preorder to rest for good.

#4783 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Kevin must be sleeping in this morning?? No new email from him yet? I can't believe he wrote last night that "he's still here" and "working through the process". This is clearly someone who does not care about processes much less accountability.

I'm sure his attorney will be sending out a blanket statement shortly, or proofreading first.

11
#4784 4 years ago

Is Vonnie D now more respected that Skit-B?

#4785 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I like the stock analogy better. It's more to the truth than anything else. You are putting money into something that has yet to be made. Plenty of companies go belly up trying to make a product and find out costs are higher than expected. Everyone that put into that company loses their ass when shit fall apart. This is no different.

26
#4786 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I like the stock analogy better. It's more to the truth than anything else. You are putting money into something that has yet to be made. Plenty of companies go belly up trying to make a product and find out costs are higher than expected. Everyone that put into that company loses their ass when shit fall apart. This is no different.

Dude, go away.

This is NOT the same thing. You're making it sound like SkitB gave it the old college try and it just didn't work out. It was a fraudulent effort from the beginning.

Is the Monday morning QB'ing here making you feel better or something?

-1
#4787 4 years ago
Quoted from coasterguy:

P.S.
I hope that this puts preorder to rest for good.

You know that won't happen. The last 7 fiascos didn't stop anyone, I don't think this will slow people down either.

19
#4788 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I like the stock analogy better. It's more to the truth than anything else. You are putting money into something that has yet to be made. Plenty of companies go belly up trying to make a product and find out costs are higher than expected. Everyone that put into that company loses their ass when shit fall apart. This is no different.

But that's not what happened here at all...

-7
#4789 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Dude, go away.
This is NOT the same thing. You're making it sound like SkitB gave it the old college try and it just didn't work out. It was a fraudulent effort from the beginning.
Is the Monday morning QB'ing here making you feel better or something?

Is it any different than a company that crunches the numbers to make their product look like it will work on paper to get investors? Only to find out later they are way over budget and can't afford the tooling to do it? I think it's a perfect representation of exactly what is going on here.

Besides we are off on another tangent, that's not even the reason I got involved in this thread in the first place. My initial reason for being here, was just to say that I didn't think Kevins initial intentions was to scam people and take their money. I think he just wanted to make this game, and to do whatever it takes to make it happen and get it in peoples hands.

#4790 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I like the stock analogy better. It's more to the truth than anything else. You are putting money into something that has yet to be made. Plenty of companies go belly up trying to make a product and find out costs are higher than expected. Everyone that put into that company loses their ass when shit fall apart. This is no different.

Really?

#4791 4 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

But why they didn't came out with that right at the moment they started their own refunding or at least in November at that time they got the info from FOX? For many pinsiders (including me and my friends) PAYPAL 180 day payback rule would be active, now 4 months later it doesn't work any longer.

Simple, when a lawyer from a big company tells you to keep your mouth shut in a nice way with intimidating words you tend to listen. You don't want to be an obstruction to justice.

#4792 4 years ago

Ive learned a ton about this type of thing living where I live in the past 3 years. It doesn't look good though I hope for the best.

#4793 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I didn't think Kevins initial intentions was to scam people and take their money. I think he just wanted to make this game, and to do whatever it takes to make it happen and get it in peoples hands.

Agree, he was stupid and naive. He was into too deep at that point, just by the fact he sent out an email this morning tells he's still thinking he can make the game. WOW! But our savior group wanted to make this into a show...so what if people get hurt, they sat on the info a good 4 months and came here everyday to bait us. They're still here right now baiting us. You can guess who they are.

23
#4794 4 years ago

Mr X did a good service by outing the truth. It doesn't matter what the motives were. SkitB didn't have the license and repeatedly said they did. For this I will consider Mr X a friend. Don't know his identity, but as far as I am concerned his name is Robert Paulson.

#4795 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Is it any different than a company that crunches the numbers to make their product look like it will work on paper to get investors? Only to find out later they are way over budget and can't afford the tooling to do it? I think it's a perfect representation of exactly what is going on here.
Besides we are off on another tangent, that's not even the reason I got involved in this thread in the first place. My initial reason for being here, was just to say that I didn't think Kevins initial intentions was to scam people and take their money. I think he just wanted to make this game, and to do whatever it takes to make it happen and get it in peoples hands.

It's impressive how many times you can be wrong on so many different topics in just one single post.

Now I'm wondering if you're being sarcastic or really don't understand how investments or business in general works? Did you omit a few smiley faces from your last few foolish comments?

-56
#4796 4 years ago

I'd be pissed off at Mr X if I wanted this game, because now it probably won't happen.

16
#4797 4 years ago

everyone who is defending kevin, or blaming the buyers, or doing anything to try and cover up that this is nothing but 100% fraud, and 100% kevins fault, please go jump off a cliff. thank you.

-3
#4798 4 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

Interesting model within a community, first save your own ass and than let explow. Great stuff

pred_desaster.jpg

Oh I let Martin know of my disgust at his decision to keep quiet. Y'know I even asked that guy directly for information and he gave me the brush off. As far as I'm concerned he's no friend of the pinball community.

-15
#4799 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

It's impressive how many times you can be wrong on so many different topics in just one single post.
Now I'm wondering if you're being sarcastic or really don't understand how investments or business in general works? Did you omit a few smiley faces from your last few foolish comments?

Really, how is this different? Company wants to make a product. Numbers arn't working on paper. Budgeting coordinator crunches some numbers to make it work. They make a prototype. Show it to investors. Investors invest. Production starts. Money gets used. Half way through they are out of money and can no longer make the product. How is this different. In this case instead of lying about manufacturing costs, he's lying about licensing issues. Which would have put him way over budget i'm sure. It's pretty much the same damn thing in a nutshell.

Anyone have that article someone posted recently on that camera instagram company that showed you how to lose 500k in a kickstarter company?

15
#4800 4 years ago

Neo, you're delusional. You really need to wear a respirator when you're clear coating playfields.

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