(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#4551 4 years ago
Quoted from GGBGROUP:

Get your point...but Detroit might have been the better comparison city.
http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/18630
(who knew...?)

Detroit has better Middle Eastern food than Beirut, too...

#4552 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Zillow says it is worth well more than $28K. I know Zillow is not the be-all end-all of real estate pricing, but better than nothing......

Nah, I wouldn't trust zillow to be accurate, especially in that depressed region. The house JUST sold 4 months ago for $28,000. THATS a far more accurate assessment of the market value.

Check it out:
https://is.bsasoftware.com/bsa.is/AssessingServices/ServiceAssessingDetails.aspx?dp=20-20-60-460&i=1&on=kulek&appid=0&actSn=1301&actSna=PINE+RIVER+RD&unit=1540

#4553 4 years ago

Now back to the subject of Predator_r

Be first to preorder Pred_r.gif

#4554 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'll be honest, I never thought it was a great game. I didn't care for how it flipped (those center targets were just annoying) and I didn't like the art. I'm not really sad for the loss of the game, just the money and years of hopes and dreams. That's what sucks.

At 2013 Expo, I played it for a bit, after their rather late arrival to the floor. I saw Kevin with a laptop debugging P-ROC code(I saw the code clearly over his shoulder), but later got a chance to try it. The 2 center targets you mentioned had too large of a gap between them. The ball got stuck each time I made a shot to it. Keviin would just take a magnetic tool & give me the ball back. With being such an up-front shot, this happened quite a few times.

With any ramp shot I made, the ball would just fly off 2/3rds the way through since the ramps were much too shallow.

#4555 4 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

File a claim right now. Even though it's over 180 days, you can still file a claim. Whether they do anything about it is a different story... But it's going to be hard for them to ignore $1,000,000 fraud.

Tried filing a claim and paypal closed it almost immediately. It was after the 180 day time period. They did send Kevin an email however.

#4556 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I did not believe these emails from labnip or whomever it was. the emails contained all sorts of things that were proven false, incorrect, and also contained all sorts of personal attacks. Only portions of these emails appear to be factual.
I am not sure about you, but I tend to write off anything that is sent to me via an alias as BS. keep in mind that mr X told me I was the only person he sent the original email to, but it was apparent quickly that he had sent the emails to many people. the emails were filled with lies and intended to insite a panic. In mr X was more forthcoming and also not directly attacking then maybe I would have believed.what he said. I fwded these emails onto a handful of pinsiders and mods as many of them were named in the emails. Mr X has only told a small portion of the entire back story in his wordpress sight.
If you are stupid enough to think I have selfish motives of just getting my game built and then walking you obviously have no idea what you are talking about or my concern for the greater community.

WhySnow is telling the truth in that he forwarded what he received to some mods, as did others (many people were receiving the messages). We could not confirm the information contained in the various messages. This has been troubling.

23
#4557 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

I never said whysnow is any less guilty if he knows this. In the end 200 people will be screwed by a Kevin and a bunch of self serving folks . Fact

Stop blaming those who wanted to get to the bottom of Kevin's bullshit. The only person that screwed 200 people is Kevin.

I don't feel bad about calling him Shit-Mask now.

#4558 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am on vacation and just got back from a great day of pinballing with my brother so sorry I have not been here to get beat around earlier.

(I hope) no one here wants to play "told you so."

The fact of the matter is, the whole thing diminishes pinball. And, more immediately, there's a lot of people that trusted the project, like you, that are now in a bit of a lurch.

I still believe this melting down now, is better than later and I sincerely hope you get your money back and, someday, get a Predator pinball machine (maybe a heighway built design??).

Peace.

#4559 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

If Kevin has any f'n brains, he's checking this list against Tripadvisor right now
http://www.wsfa.com/story/22665099/countries-with-no-extradition-treaty-with-us

, Djibouti,

24
#4560 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am not sure about you, but I tend to write off anything that is sent to me via an alias as BS. keep in mind that mr X told me I was the only person he sent the original email to, but it was apparent quickly that he had sent the emails to many people. the emails were filled with lies and intended to insite a panic.

To incite a panic?

By sending the email to a few people privately?

No. If that was the intent you post it as publicly as you possibly can, including Pinside. You talk about those emails containing a lot of "lies" but you don't mention one of them. And even if only one thing they said was true, it was the only one that mattered: Kevin/Skit-B never had a license to make a Predator pinball machine.

#4561 4 years ago

Man, aside from these last two days, I've been pretty quiet the last year, but I've read it all. Whysnow is passionate, perhaps blindly passionate, and I can't speak for him on the subject of caring if it was licensed or not, but dude definitely didn't withhold info just to "get his." I don't believe that for a minute.

#4562 4 years ago

This is devastating. A black eye for thr hobby for sure. We have to make sure this never happens again. While this whole thing leaves an EXTREMELY bitter taste in my mouth it hasn't killed my love for the hobby like I thought it might. Theres really too much to say, like how ill have to explain this to my wife, my family, my friends, I feel like a damn fool, I trust people too much, always have. This just sucks. How embarrassing.

-5
#4563 4 years ago

It's his fault but let's be honest. Mr x wasn't saving the world . People being as so wonderful as we are ...

#4564 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

I never said whysnow is any less guilty if he knows this. In the end 200 people will be screwed by a Kevin and a bunch of self serving folks . Fact

So you are saying that the people who brought out the truth are self serving folks who screwed the buyers?

Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It's his fault but let's be honest. Mr x wasn't saving the world . People being as so wonderful as we are ...

#4565 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I did not believe these emails from labnip or whomever it was. the emails contained all sorts of things that were proven false, incorrect, and also contained all sorts of personal attacks. ....

hehehe.... whatha what ?
sorry, it's not me... i'm not cool enough to be in the x-men gang
i'm still hoping it's a Ms X or a group of Ms X's.

plus... i wanted to get one of these pins some day.

#4566 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

If Kevin has any f'n brains, he's checking this list against Tripadvisor right now
http://www.wsfa.com/story/22665099/countries-with-no-extradition-treaty-with-us

Quoted from jiffy:

, Djibouti,

That's right... Kevin will soon find out what it is like to have a horn right up his Djibouti.

image.png

#4567 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It's his fault but let's be honest. Mr x wasn't saving the world . People being as so wonderful as we are ...

Dude, I think the motives were definitely personal. I did notice the line of the article that said they got their refunds AND THEN went after the truth. Shitty for the rest of us, for sure, but I can't hold this against them. I can't blame someone for wanting to find out if someone was scamming 250 pinsiders out of 1,000,000. The blame lands on one man alone.

#4568 4 years ago
Quoted from MagicMako:

This is devastating. A black eye for thr hobby for sure. We have to make sure this never happens again. While this whole thing leaves an EXTREMELY bitter taste in my mouth it hasn't killed my love for the hobby like I thought it might. Theres really too much to say, like how ill have to explain this to my wife, my family, my friends, I feel like a damn fool, I trust people too much, always have. This just sucks. How embarrassing.

You're not a fool, you just got scammed. It happens to everybody in one way or the other eventually. Don't let it get you all upset or bent out of shape, there's a chance you'll get your money back (or some of it) and worrying about it or being embarrassed won't do anything but take time off your life with all the stress! Let the police/paypal/your credit card company do the best they can, you pay them fees to work for you, let them take the stress off of you.

#4569 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Tried filing a claim and paypal closed it almost immediately. It was after the 180 day time period. They did send Kevin an email however.

Ouch. I got "The claim is closed because it was opened more than 45 days after the transaction date or did not meet the filing criteria." Since I paid before they extended their policy to 180 days... Hope the CC company comes through...

#4570 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Did I read that right. The C&D came before the initial $250??? That long ago???? WHAT THE F! This could've been solved from the beginning?? I was under the impression the C&D was October 2014, not 2013.
The anonymous and pinball news conflict

I'm guessing the C&D came the first week of December 2014 because that was the last time the Skitb guys logged onto Pinside.

https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/hoss-woods
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/SkitBPinball

19
#4571 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It's his fault but let's be honest. Mr x wasn't saving the world . People being as so wonderful as we are ...

Mr X pulled the fire alarm, he didn't start the fire. You anger is understandable but misdirected.

-7
#4572 4 years ago

Bullshit rob . Taking down kevin in revenge came over the truth.
Anyone who honestly gave a shit would have focused on the buyers and not Kevin's down fall. This was bitter revenge not saving pinball.
Kevin makes me mad but this is almost as bad. And no it does not make anything ok. As I said two wrongs don't make it right.
Kevin's shit is real . But we will also see them for who they are . People are people and people love to f up . We will know everyone involved at some point . ; )

-10
#4573 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Bullshit rob . Taking down kevin in revenge came over the truth.
Anyone who honestly gave a shit would have focused on the buyers and not Kevin's down fall. This was bitter revenge not saving pinball.
Kevin makes me mad but this is almost as bad. And no it does not make anything ok. As I said two wrongs don't make it right.
Kevin's shit is real . But we will also see them for who they are . People are people and people love to f up . We will know everyone involved at some point . ; )

Hear...hear.

#4574 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Bullshit rob . Taking down kevin in revenge came over the truth.
Anyone who honestly gave a shit would have focused on the buyers and not Kevin's down fall. This was bitter revenge not saving pinball.
Kevin makes me mad but this is almost as bad. And no it does not make anything ok. As I said two wrongs don't make it right.
Kevin's shit is real . But we will also see them for who they are . People are people and people love to f up . We will know everyone involved at some point . ; )

Ideally, how do you think things should have went down? I genuinely want to know and am not here for argument.

Edit: I mean knowing what we know now

20
#4575 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Hold on, didn't Whysnow himself say he'd been receiving these emails, the same info that we saw tonight?! And even with that, he still sat here for weeks arguing with everyone? Desperately hoping those first 10 games would get made so he would get his? Disgusting.

Those emails I linked? (Here if you missed it: http://pastebin.com/sHJwNRut )

Yes, Whysnow got them. They sent them to me after he refused to believe them, hoping that as a neutral party I might be helpful I guess.

Honestly I believed them from the start, I was able to verify parts of it (the name of the Fox lawyer, that Martin was actually doing a story, and had talked to Kevin and his friends) and so it rang true to me.

What would be the point of making it all up, keeping it a secret, telling me, and then asking me to please not post anything about it? That's just too much work for a troll.

If you go back you can see my arguing with Whysnow about them, you might not have gotten the context at the time though. I find it puzzling that he dismissed them so easily myself.

-33
#4576 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Mr X pulled the fire alarm, he didn't start the fire. You anger is understandable but misdirected.

But you also need to think about how and the timing of pulling the fire alarm.

I like you analogy so I will stick with it.

the fire erupts, mr x gets his family out of the building, and then turns the gas pump back on the building to make sure everyone else is fully engulfed, THEN he pulls the alarm and just points to the guy that started the fire.

#4577 4 years ago

So who is in the group...come one it's obvious to guess at least 4 of you. Come out and play ladies!

#4578 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

But you also need to think about how and the timing of pulling the fire alarm.
I like you analogy so I will stick with it.
the fire erupts, mr x gets his family out of the building, and then turns the gas pump back on the building to make sure everyone else is fully engulfed, THEN he pulls the alarm and just points to the guy that started the fire.

Some ppl here think you are Mr. X.

-4
#4579 4 years ago

Chris no way are we misdirecting what Kevin did . But we are saying that most of us know a core group also set out to cause harm. Again kevin bad but this group of guys are proven assholes as well. Called out and plenty of folks know damn well who they are anyway.

#4580 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

But you also need to think about how and the timing of pulling the fire alarm.
I like you analogy so I will stick with it.
the fire erupts, mr x gets his family out of the building, and then turns the gas pump back on the building to make sure everyone else is fully engulfed, THEN he pulls the alarm and just points to the guy that started the fire.

No... a couple mr. x's that think there is a problem pull out. Then wanting to save the rest of the group from being burned alive in a fire go verifying that there is a problem before pulling the fire alarm.

#4581 4 years ago

what gets me, is that you guys have no problems buying mods of one of's and what not, that would clearly be copywrite infringement as well, and now someone gets all involved with this big shitstorm, everyone feels self righteous and point fingers on "how could they do that". Truth be told, many of us just want a cool product and really don't give a shit if it's "licensed" or not. And i'm sure there are plenty of people that were on the fringe to get something, they thought was cool, and now it's in going to shit, because someone decided to snoop around and shut down the operation.

Was it shady to take money for a product that wasn't ready to go out the door without licensing after saying they did? Sure. If the 250 were already made before you even knew and were selling them out the door, would the 250 that bought one give a shit? probably not.

I just feel it's comical for so many to point fingers, when they probably own plenty of toppers and other bullshit homemade mods on their games.

#4582 4 years ago

Playboy ,
Ideally 200 people would have games . sorry fox would have been screwed and that is wrong too. But I my eyes better than this . Just an ass hats opinion .
But I always side with the outcome that equals games in someone hands.

27
#4583 4 years ago

I'm getting back every cent, this will not end well for Kevin if my refund isn't prompt. I think the notion that the money is gone is ridiculous, it is to me anyway. You can't take funds for a product and not deliver without consiquence, I have to give the man a chance but no way will i take a 3K loss, its enough that we had to wait years and now will not recieve our game, that hurts me as it was one of my dream themes but to add to all this stolen funds as thats how I would deem it will be unnaceptable. I really supported SkitB and if Kevin had been forthright and honest and simply could not complete the project then hey I would be sympathetic and lenient in terms of partial refund but the deceipt is at that core of it all, that I cannot forgive and will pursue legal action to the fullest means, not cool.

18
#4584 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

what gets me, is that you guys have no problems buying mods of one of's and what not, that would clearly be copywrite infringement as well, and now someone gets all involved with this big shitstorm, everyone feels self righteous and point fingers on "how could they do that". Truth be told, many of us just want a cool product and really don't give a shit if it's "licensed" or not. And i'm sure there are plenty of people that were on the fringe to get something, they thought was cool, and now it's in going to shit, because someone decided to snoop around and shut down the operation.
Was it shady to take money for a product that wasn't ready to go out the door without licensing after saying they did? Sure. If the 250 were already made before you even knew and were selling them out the door, would the 250 that bought one give a shit? probably not.
I just feel it's comical for so many to point fingers, when they probably own plenty of toppers and other bullshit homemade mods on their games.

The difference being this was 5k of money per person that kevin gambled on being able to illegally manufacture a major luxury item. Which takes years. Which he even admitted he now couldn't even build in his house if he wanted to. There was never a possibility that these people were going to get their black market pinball machines.

#4585 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

So who is in the group...come one it's obvious to guess at least 4 of you. Come out and play ladies!

Haha I wish I could have seen these last night when I was in investigative mode. All we got was the one from Aurich. Give me tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I can figure out who at least wrote them.

#4586 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

You can't take funds for a product and not deliver without consiquence

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/antisocial-personality-disorder-symptoms/

There is a high likelihood that this is what you are dealing with *allegedly*

#4587 4 years ago
Quoted from MagicMako:

This is devastating. A black eye for thr hobby for sure. We have to make sure this never happens again. While this whole thing leaves an EXTREMELY bitter taste in my mouth it hasn't killed my love for the hobby like I thought it might. Theres really too much to say, like how ill have to explain this to my wife, my family, my friends, I feel like a damn fool, I trust people too much, always have. This just sucks. How embarrassing.

Im with you...it sucks. out $3000. But i'm not freaking out.. WE took a chance....it didnt work out...hope we get some % of the money back or some deposit on a future game. Entertaining though for sure....wow...this is some crazy shit

Whats going on in Kevins world? I was heralding him as the next wunderkid of pinball. How is he holding up mentally. Hope he doesnt do something stupid. Fraud with intent? I dont see it but if so, fuck, that gets me mad.
What a twisted tale...from nothing to something in such a short time...We we all weather this just fine....Kevin needs to come clean

#4588 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

But you also need to think about how and the timing of pulling the fire alarm.
I like you analogy so I will stick with it.
the fire erupts, mr x gets his family out of the building, and then turns the gas pump back on the building to make sure everyone else is fully engulfed, THEN he pulls the alarm and just points to the guy that started the fire.

Things definitely could have been handled differently, sure. I just don't want to see all of you start a witch hunt on each other. You have strength in numbers going after Kevin, try to stay focused on who took your money.

I hope you guys all find a way to get all or at least some of your money back.

58
#4589 4 years ago

This is unbelievable. Even now Whysnow is trying to point the blame away from Kevin.

Kevin lied to all of you from the start.

He took your money.

He was served a cease and desist from Fox. In December 2014.

That's how long he's known he got caught.

Instead of manning up, returning everyone's money as best he could, and scrapping the project?

He lies, ignores the legal situation, and drags all of you down with him.

And you're going to really try and put this on someone else? That's delusional. I can't respect anyone who would defend what Kevin did.

I don't even give a shit about the license. If he built them one at a time and sold them privately to people for cash, one at a time? I'd have zero moral issue with that. It's small potatoes, for a special fan base, in a very small circle of people. I can look the other way on that.

But to take people's money, knowing he could screw them all? That I cannot abide.

Do what you're gonna do, but do it with your own money, not other people's. And don't lie to them about it once you take their cash.

#4590 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/antisocial-personality-disorder-symptoms/
There is a high likelihood that this is what you are dealing with *allegedly*

Me or Kevin?

-1
#4591 4 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

Some ppl here think you are Mr. X.

Really? That is pretty odd. i have been pretty much supporter number 1 for a long time. Why would I ever be part on the anonymous group?

Aurich, just saw your post now with the link to emails you got. What they sent you is clipped from what they sent to me. they also sent to a few other people the exact same day that I got the first email from them. Similar yet slightly altered content depending on whom they were emailing and attempting to appeal to it appeared.

#4592 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Playboy ,
Ideally 200 people would have games . sorry fox would have been screwed and that is wrong too. But I my eyes better than this . Just an ass hats opinion .
But I always side with the outcome that equals games in someone hands.

At best Kevin was going to be building those games for the next eighteen months. I just don't believe the project would have flown under the radar with Fox for that long under any circumstances...especially once the first batch shipped.

Just a crazy unfortunate situation. I doubt Mr. X knew of the credit card / pay pal dealine that may have passed for some during the private emailing period of this drama unfolding.

#4593 4 years ago

Still haven't seen confirmation on this:

Is Skit-B a business? LLC? Non-profit? ...?

Or is this all going to come down to Kevin being the responsible entity on a personal level?

#4594 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

But you also need to think about how and the timing of pulling the fire alarm.
I like you analogy so I will stick with it.
the fire erupts, mr x gets his family out of the building, and then turns the gas pump back on the building to make sure everyone else is fully engulfed, THEN he pulls the alarm and just points to the guy that started the fire.

really?.gif

In any case this is a sad sad day for many reasons

#4595 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I'm getting back every cent, this will not end well for Kevin if my refund isn't prompt. I think the notion that the money is gone is ridiculous, it is to me anyway. You can't take funds for a product and not deliver without consiquence, I have to give the man a chance but no way will i take a 3K loss, its enough that we had to wait years and now will not recieve our game, that hurts me as it was one of my dream themes but to add to all this stolen funds as thats how I would deem it will be unnaceptable. I really supported SkitB and if Kevin had been forthright and honest and simply could not complete the project then hey I would be sympathetic and lenient in terms of partial refund but the deceipt is at that core of it all, that I cannot forgive and will pursue legal action to the fullest means, not cool.

^THIS^ More than anything else - ^THIS^ My friends & I are in the same boat.

#4596 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Me or Kevin?

Brother, c'mon. Clearly not you in any way (I don't even know you), I'm just pointing out that reason and rationale are likely not involved in either of us getting out money back out of Kevin's guilt, read that link and apply it to the person that knowingly fucked us out of our money. He will likely have to be forced by an outside influence to do the right thing.

I hope to hell I am wrong, but that is likely what we are dealing with here.

#4597 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

The difference being this was 5k of money per person that kevin gambled on being able to illegally manufacture a major luxury item. Which takes years. Which he even admitted he now couldn't even build in his house if he wanted to. There was never a possibility that these people were going to get their black market pinball machines.

I agree, but I don't think for a second, that Kevin was at any time trying to purposely rip off the people supporting him and wanting the game. I really think he just wanted to make it happen and didn't cover all his bases, or didn't have the means to get everything he needed. If he wanted to pull this off, he should have made the games first. Then sold them, as they were ready to go out the door. 30 days max, and all the games would have been revealed, and sold, and done. the issue probably would have never came up, and it would have been under the radar.

All i know, is if Pinball Circus was about to come out, and I felt like I was months away from getting my game and some ass hat called the guy out, that was making my game and yanked it from under me. I'd be pissed off at the guy that outed him. Hence why this guy remains "anonymous". I think it's to avoid the lynching he would get from the ones that wanted to see predator happen.

#4598 4 years ago

I'm not convinced that any Mr. X's got this shut down. Fox probably knew about it from way back, and when Heighway got the license for Aliens i'm sure the Fox licensors did some snooping around and would have found the Predator stuff even then if they hadn't yet.

As for Mods that are infringement, you're talking about minor (a couple hundred bucks) money.

This pinball machine had a sticker price of over 1,000,000 dollars if he built 250. You can bet your ass Fox wants in on that.

This all stems from the Duck Hunt game, in my opinion. He made 1 licensed, 1 off game, didn't get in any trouble, and thought that even if he had to get the license for Predator it wouldn't be any big deal. Then he just started lying to people.

Roger Sharpe has talked about this license stuff a lot; in his words a lot of companies want to do licensed machines because of the prestige of it, not necessarily the money. The crazy thing is I feel that the license would have been completely possible to obtain, if... oh... he just would have TRIED right at the beginning to get it. Maybe not with full reign on Arnold's image or anything, but I'll bet there was plenty of stock art he could have used and even voicecalls from the movie for a pittance if he just would have worked it out like Heighway has worked out (with the exact same people!) the Aliens pinball.

Once you go behind someone's back and try to make 1,000,000 dollars off their Intellectual Property, I'd imagine they're not really in the mood to work with you on the idea. They probably have the idea that they're glad he's going down in flames, that'll teach him to not screw with Fox.

With all that said, unfortunately 100% of the funding of Kevin acting like a jackass the last 3 years has been from innocent people who just want a fun pinball machine.

#4599 4 years ago

I'm wondering if the paypal money is unfrozen/released to kevin after the 180 day appeal period is up, and that's why he could buy the new house and apparently other fancy stuff recently but not before.

#4600 4 years ago

hehehehe

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