(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 33 days ago by Cobra99
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86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 257 of 366.
12
#12801 2 years ago
Quoted from Brickshot:

One more note for pinball history posterity in the event I'm frozen shortly. I testified to this but I'll make it public here too. EOD was (and is) a small handful of parts. FAR from a game. The game was completely bastardized before I got the leftover parts. There are zero boards in the game (despite what I see above in a pic) and there was no computer with any code. Nothing, bare bones. The cabinet has numerous dings and scratches to the artwork. I believe the game was stored outside in a garage over the winter months because all of the inserts on the playfield popped up (under an overlay of the artwork). So it's not even usable if I ever did want to try and finish the game (I didn't realize this until I got it home.) I did get a document containing a VERY detailed set of rules that were planned for the game (Kevin was/is good in this department, IMO). I also got a full set of audio recordings that were done for the game. Apparently Kevin managed to have a full recording session for game callouts with Jamie and Adam of MythBusters at some point. It's interesting to listen to the recordings but it's all raw. I also got zero actual game code. The top of the playfield is missing some of the key planned toys (that ARE out there somewhere). The playfield sits out of the cab today in a pile of other spare parts I have looking like an abandoned building. That's where EOD has ended up.

This is a photo of EoD in the crate just before it was shipped back. The game had borrowed some mechs from Jimmy's X-Files and he was eager to get them back. It was returned with no FAST hardware with it.

IMG_0209 (resized).JPG

When the Predator situation started to spin out of control we decided that it was better to abort the EoD project and focus our efforts elsewhere. Huge bummer. At that point I had already personally met Jamie when out at CAX and we had FAST hardware and MPF software controlling the EoD game in our hotel room at Expo.

IMG_9326 (resized).JPGIMG_9329 (resized).JPG

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#12802 2 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

This is a photo of EoD in the crate just before it was shipped back. The game had borrowed some mechs from Jimmy's X-Files and he was eager to get them back. It was returned with no FAST hardware with it.

Are those vacuum formed ramps?

#12803 2 years ago
Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

very soon this whole legal part of the saga will conclude.

It's cute that you think that.

#12804 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Are those vacuum formed ramps?

Yes, but I don't know who produced them.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#12805 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Fox's bread and butter is licensing.

Quoted from metallik:

This has blown up to the point they HAVE to pay attention and put the hammer down to discourage anyone else from "pulling a Kulek" and pirating their IP in the future. Look at how they got caught with their pants down... if they blow this off and let Kevin pay his liabilities with their IP, someone's gonna see an opportunity and do it again. That is the LAST thing Fox wants.

Nothing has really "blown up" in any way for Fox.

A guy built himself a pinball machine in his basement.

He was denied the license to build them for commercial sale.

He did not build any for commercial sale.

End of story.

-

#12806 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Nothing has really "blown up" in any way for Fox.
A guy built himself a pinball machine in his basement.
He was denied the license to build them for commercial sale.
He did not build any for commercial sale.
End of story.
-

You kinda forgot one part. Insert "He fraudulently collected hundreds of thousands of dollars using Fox IP and claiming to be licensed" as step 3.

I think Fox would want this whole mess, including the machines, to just go away; and they have the power to make that happen.

#12807 2 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

It's cute that you think that.

Hey, I was trying to be optimistic. Obviously, it's going to take years for the court to make official what most of us already suspect: predator pre order victims will get nothing in compensation

#12808 2 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

This is a photo of EoD in the crate just before it was shipped back. The game had borrowed some mechs from Jimmy's X-Files and he was eager to get them back. It was returned with no FAST hardware with it.

Damn that art is vomit-inducing.

20
#12809 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Im inclined to let him stay for the time being. I don't speak for the whole mod team obviously (and Robin may feel different when he wakes up), but as far as I'm (personally) concerned Tim can keep posting if he wants to.
I'd like to hear more details about any conversations he's ever had with Kevin or anything else he would like to tell us.

So pinside rules are more like... suggestions? If you entertain the staff you are given a pass on repeated duplicate accounts, deception, and straight up ignoring staff actions by doing end arounds?

Boo to that

-2
#12810 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

So pinside rules are more like... suggestions? If you entertain the staff you are given a pass on repeated duplicate accounts, deception, and straight up ignoring staff actions by doing end arounds?
Boo to that

If you wish to discuss the rules or the way in which they are enforced, I'd invite you to open a moderator feedback thread rather than drag this thread off topic.

This also applies to anyone else who has questions/concerns.

#12811 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

I'm lucky to remember what I ate for breakfast yesterday....I couldn't tell you when or how I bought any machines person to person. All cash deals...I usually keep a slush fund of cash on person that's increased through sales and decreased through purchases. So hopefully I'll never have to testify when I bought something or prove I did. Might give me pause on documenting that in the future.

Yes...avoid people that are bankruptcy risks protect yourself with documentation

#12812 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

No. And I don't have to. It's up to you to prove I did something wrong. I don't have to prove what I did was right.
Just because your crops shriveled and died doesn't mean I'm a witch.

Actually no... not in this case. You as the buyer can get screwed by the seller alone. The court has the right to protect all creditors... even at the expense of one. You need to protect yourself

#12813 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

So pinside rules are more like... suggestions?

I don;t understand what you're confused aboot?

Quoted from TigerLaw:

I don't speak for the whole mod team obviously (and Robin may feel different when he wakes up), but as far as I'm (personally) concerned Tim can keep posting if he wants to.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

If you wish to discuss the rules or the way in which they are enforced, I'd invite you to open a moderator feedback thread rather than drag this thread off topic.

Oh that

#12814 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

So pinside rules are more like... suggestions? If you entertain the staff you are given a pass on repeated duplicate accounts, deception, and straight up ignoring staff actions by doing end arounds?
Boo to that

That seems to be his m.o. as this isn't the first time he's admitted rules were violated and he didn't bother to enforce them, or enforced them selectively.

11
#12815 2 years ago

I cant wait for Kaneda to do a podcast how he was thrown out and Tim wasnt

#12816 2 years ago
Quoted from volcanodiver:

That seems to be his m.o. as this isn't the first time he's admitted rules were violated and he didn't bother to enforce them, or enforced them selectively.

I've always said I reserve the right to treat different situations in a unique way. My decisions are not binding on other mods. Robin has the final say.

Please feel free to open a mod feedback thread if you wish to discuss further. I provided some commentary on my personal decision earlier so as to avoid people wondering whether I saw the confession. Complaints on my moderation style though are what the moderator feedback threads are for.

#12817 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Robin has the final say.

Please feel free to open a mod feedback thread if you wish to discuss further.

I opened a mod thread almost 12 hrs ago and no response.

Are we supposed to PM him or does he actually check in on mod thread occasionally?

13
#12818 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

If you wish to discuss the rules or the way in which they are enforced, I'd invite you to open a moderator feedback thread rather than drag this thread off topic.
This also applies to anyone else who has questions/concerns.

I was responding to a user posting as themselves... not a mod's response

I already reported the post as done initially verse commenting on the mods in the thread. So I did my part.

It was tiggerlaw who brought the topic into this thread... not I.

So let's make sure we are pointing the finger correctly Forceflow

10
#12819 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I opened a mod thread almost 12 hrs ago and no response.
Are we supposed to PM him or does he actually check in on mod thread occasionally?

Hey no one said they were going to read/reply to your thread, just to start one

#12820 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

You kinda forgot one part. Insert "He fraudulently collected hundreds of thousands of dollars using Fox IP and claiming to be licensed" as step 3.
I think Fox would want this whole mess, including the machines, to just go away; and they have the power to make that happen.

That has no reflection or responsibility on the IP holder. Stop the red herring.

#12821 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I opened a mod thread almost 12 hrs ago and no response.
Are we supposed to PM him or does he actually check in on mod thread occasionally?

There were responses from two mods and several replies. If you're waiting on a response for Robin, keep in mind that he is in a completely different timezone.

#12822 2 years ago

Screenshot_2017-01-06-19-22-35 (resized).png

13
#12823 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I opened a mod thread almost 12 hrs ago and no response.
Are we supposed to PM him or does he actually check in on mod thread occasionally?

Just to clarify for the benefit of others in case they misread your meaning, you received feedback from two mods this morning (fairly quickly) in that mod feedback thread, so you did get a response (just not from Robin). Robin reads all the feedback threads, he does not always elect to participate in them when he agrees with the feedback we've already provided.

Everyone has the right at any time to PM Robin. Robin loves chatting with the members and receiving feedback on how they feel the experience this site provides could be improved. If someone thinks one or more of the mods suck, then by all means they should let robin know why and provide the basis for said feelings. Robin is logical and reads everything and will hear any grievance fairly.

21
#12824 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Just to clarify for the benefit of others in case they misread your meaning, you received feedback from two mods this morning (fairly quickly) in that mod feedback thread, so you did get a response (just not from Robin). Robin reads all the feedback threads, he does not always elect to participate in them when he agrees with the feedback we've already provided.
Everyone has the right at any time to PM Robin. Robin loves chatting with the members and receiving feedback on how they feel the experience this site provides could be improved. If someone thinks one or more of the mods suck, then by all means they should let robin know why and provide the basis for said feelings. Robin is logical and reads everything and will hear any grievance fairly.

Dude, don't sweat it. You handle mod duties tremendously well; and no, I'm not brown nosing. I think what you were trying to tip toe around without directly saying it was you were allowing him to keep posting to see if he would incriminate/divulge/implicate others. It would be silly to silence him while he was spurting off at the mouth. It seems pretty obvious to me. What's the saying, give them enough rope...

#12825 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I opened a mod thread almost 12 hrs ago and no response.
Are we supposed to PM him or does he actually check in on mod thread occasionally?

He might be running an IP Check before responding.

#12827 2 years ago

I posted this a week ago and Robin still has not stickied the thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/interest-check-items/page/2#post-3514250

Should I contact the FCC next? Or should I expedite it to the International Court of Justice at The Hague?

#12828 2 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Damn that art is vomit-inducing.

It could have used some refinement, for sure.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#12829 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It was tiggerlaw

TiggerLaw (resized).jpeg

#12830 2 years ago

I played Tigger at Disney in 1976!

Blocked Tim way early...glad i saved my health.
Maybe others should.

#12831 2 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

What's the saying, give them enough rope...

19
#12832 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

You kinda forgot one part. Insert "He fraudulently collected hundreds of thousands of dollars using Fox IP and claiming to be licensed" as step 3.
I think Fox would want this whole mess, including the machines, to just go away; and they have the power to make that happen.

Fox does not spend a single second of their corporate day worrying about any of that.

Note that after many years:

- Fox has not demanded Kevin turn over his game.

- Fox has not taken Kevin to court to collect any damages.

- Fox has not petitioned any federal law enforcement agencies to take action against Kevin.

Why? Because Fox does not care about a goofy guy who dresses like a pirate, and built a Predator pinball machine in his basement.

Fox has billions of pirate Bluray, DVDs and toys to worry about, sequels to Avatar and How to Train your Dragon - you know, stuff that actually matters to their bottom line.

#12833 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Fox does not spend a single second of their corporate day worrying about any of that.

Wasn't "Anonymous" asked to hold off releasing the details of Licensegate so that Fox could investigate further? Methinks Fox was doing some "worrying" behind the scenes during this time.

#12834 2 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Wasn't "Anonymous" asked to hold off releasing the details of Licensegate so that Fox could investigate further? Methinks Fox was doing some work behind the scenes during this time.

Yes, as I'm sure any company would want to do when they hear about an infringement, but im betting that as soon as they realized that Kevin was some moron in his momma's basement that hadn't actually started manufacturing anything yet they stopped waistline their money looking any further into it. Their legal team told him to stop and not to continue (C&D letter) and then they moved on to much bigger fish to fry.

#12835 2 years ago

From what I recall of the story when it happened, all Fox did was send a Cease & Desist regarding the original website, and the Anonymous Group kept calling the fox lawyer to confirm there was no license, and eventually that info was passed to Pinball News. Pinball News did their story, and it was only then that Kevin announced it was over and he'd give everyone's money back (har har) but that was not pressed by Fox, it was only that the truth became unavoidable to Kevin, that his "fair use" wasn't holding up.

But I agree, the hammer did not come down from Fox at all. If you remove the AG from this equation, and the subsequent Pinball News article, what did Fox do other than send a form letter?

#12836 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

what did Fox do other than send a form letter?

That would seem like standard fare for a normal C&D, so why the delay? I would think that they just fill "Kevin Kulek," "Predator," and "Skit-B" into a form letter and send--yet they asked AG to hold off while they did this?

#12837 2 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

That would seem like standard fare for a normal C&D, so why the delay? I would think that they just fill "Kevin Kulek," "Predator," and "Skit-B" into a form letter and send--yet they asked AG to hold off while they did this?

How do you "know" that Fox asked the AG to do anything? - or do you have positive info that we don't know about?

My bet is Fox didn't and probably still don't give a toss and that they did and said ZERO to me, you and the AG!

#12838 2 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

That would seem like standard fare for a normal C&D, so why the delay? I would think that they just fill "Kevin Kulek," "Predator," and "Skit-B" into a form letter and send--yet they asked AG to hold off while they did this?

From the timeline, the C&D was sent way early, when Predator was scrubbed from the skitb website. It was at least a year later when AG started their activities.

What was said between fox and AG, we don't know exactly, other than they confirmed for certain there was no license.

#12839 2 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

How do you "know" that Fox asked the AG to do anything?

isn't there some saying about the most obvious solution is often the correct answer?

#12840 2 years ago

Just for discussion, I found a Fox C&D online unrelated to this, but likely Kevin received the same letter modified for him. Just to give some context about what their C&Ds look like and any demands they made. Whether or not they follow up on C&Ds is another topic (most C&Ds aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but that's another discussion).

[TCF Logo and Address in Beverly Hills, California.]

Twentieth Century Fox
Licensing & Merchandising
A Unit of Fox Filmed Entertainment

David G. Oakes, Counsel
Legal Affairs

VIA COURIER

October 19, 1995

JEANETTE FOSHEE
1603-13th Street
Boone, Iowa 50036

Re: "THE SIMPSONS" - Copyright Infringement

Dear Ms. Foshee,

It has come to our attention that you have caused the creation and distribution of a
collection of icons which reproduce the characters, images, voices, sounds and other
distinctive elements of the copyrighted television series entitled, "THE SIMPSONS".
Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation ("Fox") owns all rights under copyright and
trademark in and to "THE SIMPSONS". Your creation and distribution of these icons
patently and unavoidably infringes Fox's rights.

This course of conduct exposes you to substantial monetary damages and injunctive relief
in favor of Fox. As you may be aware, such damages for copyright infringement can
include statutory penalties of as much as $100,000 for willful infringement, damages
under laws governing trademarks, and punitive damages under laws of unfair competition.

In view of the foregoing, we hearby demand that you do the following:

1. Immediately cease and desist all further creation, distribution, advertising,
promotion, posting or any other exploitation of the referenced icons, or any other activity
which utilizes the characters, images, voices, sounds, designs or other elements of "THE
SIMPSONS" in any way whatsoever;

2. Immediately order all such icons, as well as all related artwork, and other
materials, or any other use thereof, to be withdrawn;

3. Deliver to a designated representative of our office all disks containing such
icons, all related artwork, or any other materials on hand;

4. Provide Fox with an itemized accounting of any and all revenues resulting
from exploitation of such icons so that Fox can determine its damages;

5. Provide Fox with the names and addresses of all persons to whom such
infringing icons have been sold and/or distributed, or who are known to you to have
received, used and/or further distributed such icons. In addition, please provide Fox with
the names of all internet servers on which you know such icons have been posted.

6. Confirm to the undersigned in writing, by letter received in our office not
later than 5:00 p.m. on November 10, 1995, that you shall fully and promptly comply
with each of the foregoing demands (at which time specific arrangements for turnover of
materials can be finalized).

If we have not received your full and voluntary compliance with each of the foregoing
demands by the deadline specified, be advised that we shall, without further notice to
you, take all available legal action to compel the discontinuation of your use and
exploitation of the infringing icons, to recover monetary damages to the full extent
allowed by law, including attorney's fees and costs of suit, and to obtain such additional
legal and/or equitable relief as the court may allow in the circumstances. We hope that
your voluntary compliance with the foregoing reasonable and lawful demands will make
the initiation of legal action against you unnecessary.

Finally, be advised that nothing contained in this letter as, or may be deemed
or construed to constitute, a waiver or relinquishment of any of Fox's rights and remedies
in the premise, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.

Very truly yours,

/s/ David G. Oakes

enc.

cc: Antonia Coffman (all w/e)
Susan Grode
Anatole Klebanow
Jamie Samson
Central Files

LT641V01.DGO 10-13-95
"THE SIMPSONS"/Jeanette Foshee

#12841 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Kevin received the same letter modified for him

You really think they wrote it in crayon???

crayon-pen (resized).jpg

#12842 2 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Wasn't "Anonymous" asked to hold off releasing the details of Licensegate so that Fox could investigate further? Methinks Fox was doing some "worrying" behind the scenes during this time.

You can believe that if you want to.

But for most intelligent people, that is the weakest part of the entire story.

23
#12843 2 years ago

It just seems most likely that they held off on releasing details so that they could get their money back in advance of the run on the bank.
This is a no-brainer.

#12844 2 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

It just seems most likely that they held off on releasing details so that they could get their money back in advance of the run on the bank.
This is a no-brainer.

AG did that, and it's exactly as I would do if I went through all the trouble to find out the answers. However, I would not have withheld that info once I got my money back. It does seem like there was an intentional delay. Fox's "keep this quiet" request to AG is just that, a request(a bullshit one too). There was ZERO gag order issued from a court or any legal system.

The second I had gotten my money back I would have hit RGP & Pinside with the news. Not an investigating "pinball reporter".

#12845 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

The second I had gotten my money back I would have hit RGP & Pinside with the news

Maybe they were blackmailing Kevin at this time as well??

#12846 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

AG did that, and it's exactly as I would do if I went through all the trouble to find out the answers. However, I would not have withheld that info once I got my money back. It does seem like there was an intentional delay. Fox's "keep this quiet" request to AG is just that, a request(a bullshit one too). There was ZERO gag order issued from a court or any legal system.
The second I had gotten my money back I would have hit RGP & Pinside with the news. Not an investigating "pinball reporter".

Tough to argue with that.

#12847 2 years ago

*Edit: Wrong thread *

16
#12848 2 years ago

Actually, tipping off a reporter and having him follow the breadcrumbs was the best way to go.

If people would have gone on Pinside early 2014 yelling "Kevin's a fraud!" they would have run up against "The SkitB Defense Force".

A reporter takes the time to check everything out and when they post, it has validity because their reputation is on the line.

Also deep down people are upset because AG was smarter than them. They saw the writing on the wall (or in this case the non-working UV ink) shorted their stock and ran.

Even if he had the license who was going to build this?
Even if someone built it they would have run out of money.
Even if they had enough money the game shot like a wet turd.

19
#12849 2 years ago

We have frozen Brickshot for being a duplicate. Just FYI.

#12850 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

isn't there some saying about the most obvious solution is often the correct answer?

Occam's Razor. Can a pirate secure an intellectual property license from FOX? Answer: No.

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