(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18,269 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 35 days ago by Cobra99
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,540 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Kulek.pdf (PDF preview)
6-pennywise-has-some-nickelback-funny-meme (resized).jpg
will-ferrell-fillwerrel-i-just-fell-down-the-stairs-holding-31512906 (resized).png
pinsiders (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
194b3475e0440b8112afc0ac4ad5bf0ed0e8ec3db63fb4b6748a4f2e06a9865b (resized).jpg
31A053C2-4495-4E3E-980F-E5ADEA02F1DE (resized).jpeg
IMG_2933 (resized).JPG
beetlejuice-shrunken head (resized).jpg
2716720260_bc8966f6b1 (resized).jpg
D460F55E-AD42-43C6-91EB-B8162A84A094.gif
Screenshot_20190103-214734_Facebook (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20181108-174321 (resized).png
Fife Appeal Sept 24 2018.pdf (PDF preview)
cat ooo 2.gif
7332539.attach (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 288 of 366.
#14351 2 years ago
Quoted from c508:

I had one of my student research assistants type up this up (for posterity, the benefit of those who don't want to listen to the whole 40 minute audio-file, because next semester I plan to base a legal research homework exercise on the Kulek bankruptcy filings, and since I am legally deaf and rely on captions for tv shows, etc.).

Good motivation for the student to keep with their studies or else they'll end up like Mr. Kulek.

#14352 2 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Good motivation for the student to keep with their studies or else they'll end up like Mr. Kulek.

Nope, what I have learned in business is that you can't fix stupid, no matter how smart people think they are or went to school and paid for a piece of paper.

#14353 2 years ago

You guys ever see those lawyer commercials on TV where the insurance company is getting ready to screw someone over, then they find out the client has this really good lawyer and the ins. co. starts shakin' in their boots? Reminds me of Keith

16
#14354 2 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

Can somebody confirm my basic understanding of what's happening?
Kevin took money to build pinballs.
Kevin tried to use IP for the pinball for which he had no license and knew he had no license.
Everyone found this out after Kevin spent some of the money developing pinballs that he was going to sell.
Kevin could not deliver due to the IP fiasco.
The rest of the money was allegedly used for personal items unrelated to pinball.
Kevin cannot refund the money because it's gone...including on non pinball producing stuff.
Kevin attempted to file for bankruptcy to escape the people that wanted their money back.
Bankruptcy was denied because he couldn't produce records that showed he was a legit failed business.
He's now suspected, in Court, of fraud...because he filed for bankruptcy and was denied.
And finally, things are going blow up in his face as the legal path to his undoing is being carefully set out.

Yes and no..

The TL: DR - Kevin thought bankruptcy would save him. Kevin thought he could just do the minimum and things would just go away.. even ignoring court orders. Kevin's request to have his liability wiped out was denied. Kevin is still in chapter7 bankruptcy. KeithMI continues to dig to push to find all the details of the money and where it went.. and is working to claw it back.. so the bankruptcy can actually proceed. Kevin's missteps can still come back to haunt him as the details of the case can expose things to be forwarded for potential prosecution. He could still face charges regarding his bankruptcy filings/activities.

A greater summary...

Kevin starts the project to build predators, but has no license to do so.
Kevin says he has a license to build the games and use the IP - but in fact has no licensing arrangements. He lies about this repeatedly. He possibly thinks he has found some loophole about building a small batch of games and not needing specific licensing arrangements. But he tells everyone he does.
Kevin takes lots of deposits on games based on his prototypes and traveling to shows talking about the project
Time goes by and Kevin struggles to get the prototypes functioning to the sold spec
People continue to question Kevin's model and legitimacy, fueled in part by their lack of progress and plan. Some defend him to no end
Kevin keeps spending and trying to line up partners to source parts needed.. including Cabinets, Ramps, and toys. At least small batches of parts are made.
People start investigating Kevin's claims by going around him to people like FOX and find out he's full of shit wrt to licensing. The general public still lives in denial.
FOX sends Kevin C&D letters.. Kevin wipes the website and net of all his previous stuff mentioning predator. Hysteria starts, Kevin denies problems, tries to keep on without disclosing the problems. Kevin makes up even more stories about paypal, his setup with them, etc.
Finally the 'anonymous' group outs Kevin and backs up their claims. There is a 'run on the bank' and of course no one can get any money back anymore.
When the lies can not hide him anymore, Kevin effectively goes dark and is unresponsive.

Blended in there, there are dubious transactions by Kevin regarding vendors, the parts/games he had, spending, and activity from his close associates/family.

Several owners file civil suits against Kevin. One files a small claims court case and wins. Lawsuit progresses...
Kevin files voluntary chapter 7 bankruptcy... presumably thinking this will make the lawsuits and debts go away. Kevin is conveniently now virtually worthless.. no job, little possessions, etc.
KeithMI works to be appointed to work with the bankruptcy trustee on Kevin's case... and digs to expose the pathetic story of Kevin's claims of no assets, less debts, and more
Kevin is uncooporative in the case, even tho its HIS bankruptcy case.. ultimately leading to a bench warrant being issues for Kevin because he wasn't showing up to court ordered appearances. Finally the US Marshals bring him before the judge. Judge threatens to throw him in jail for his continued lack of cooperation and ignoring the court's orders.
KeithMI exposes enough for the trustee to call into question Kevin's filings and under threat of further action against Kevin due to his dubious filings in his bankruptcy case, Kevin settles in a way that his request to discharge his debts is denied.
While his discharge is denied, he's still in chapter 7 and still has debts. So the trustee+KeithMI are still working to identify all his assets and liabilities.. so the bankruptcy can continue.
Several orders have been signed with regards to clawing back assets Kevin spread around.

So Kevin's assets and what happened to SkitB's monies are still being challenged and forced to disclose by KeithMI on behalf of the trustee. Kevin is still in bankruptcy. The trustee can still forward information it uncovers to the respective authorities for further criminal prosecution. They are still working on finding all the details of Kevin's and SkitB's finances.
The lawsuit against Kevin is on pause while his bankruptcy is under way.

#14355 2 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

Can somebody confirm my basic understanding of what's happening?
Kevin took money to build pinballs.
Kevin tried to use IP for the pinball for which he had no license and knew he had no license.
Everyone found this out after Kevin spent some of the money developing pinballs that he was going to sell.
Kevin could not deliver due to the IP fiasco.
The rest of the money was allegedly used for personal items unrelated to pinball.
Kevin cannot refund the money because it's gone...including on non pinball producing stuff.
Kevin attempted to file for bankruptcy to escape the people that wanted their money back.
Bankruptcy was denied because he couldn't produce records that showed he was a legit failed business.
He's now suspected, in Court, of fraud...because he filed for bankruptcy and was denied.
And finally, things are going blow up in his face as the legal path to his undoing is being carefully set out.

you missed the part about taking thousands of dollars out repeatedly at ATM's for partying at topless bars

#14356 2 years ago

Very good summaries.
A couple of minor but important points.
"Skit B" pinball never existed in any form as a business entity. No Inc, no llc, no dba... nothing.
The intent and ability of Kevin to build any significant number of games has been questioned. Those are separate issues from the legal right that he clearly never had.

#14357 2 years ago

Great summary response to my post, thanks!

#14358 2 years ago
Quoted from c508:

I am also posting an UNOFFICIAL transcript of the audio file for the Jan. 20 hearing.

What a fantastic read. He truly thinks he can outsmart the system and hide all that money.

#14359 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

He possibly thinks he has found some loophole about building a small batch of games and not needing specific licensing arrangements. But he tells everyone he does.

He had claimed that Skit-B was a non-profit business. If he actually believed this and it wasn't a scam, I think this is how he thought he could get around licensing.

Quoted from flynnibus:

People start investigating Kevin's claims by going around him to people like FOX and find out he's full of shit wrt to licensing. The general public still lives in denial.

I think this was due to the fact that the general public didn't know this was happening. I don't believe the anonymous sleuths have ever revealed themselves. I doubt we can find their names on the list of people who need to be paid, considering they undoubtedly got their money out before dropping the bombshell. It wasn't until I was given a copy by someone in this thread who randomly received it due to being "a level headed pinsider" that I realized the depth of Kevin's bullshit. I asked for my money back that night, but the fire was already burning. It was the day after when he sent the "people are slandering me" email/post.

Geez man. Almost six years with this crap.

#14360 2 years ago

Nothing good comes from prepay pins.

#14361 2 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Nothing good comes from prepay pins.

Tell that to the Tron/ACDC crowd. I never would have sold it, though.

Reading back this court document from the 20th where KK talks about money, I just wonder how he planned to do this shit after having blown $200k on what, R&D? I mean Keith brings up the 1.2M, which I get, but it was likely closer to $500k. But still, it sounds like he ate up 20% of his money with four machines to show for it.

I admit I've been out of the loop for a while and have read back the thread since I left, but I know I've missed some things (like allegations that these pins are out in people's homes somewhere). I just don't get a lot of it. I guess a lot of the missing money could have gone to paying 4 people's salaries for 3 years.

#14362 2 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Tell that to the Tron/ACDC crowd. I never would have sold it, though.
Reading back this court document from the 20th where KK talks about money, I just wonder how he planned to do this shit after having blown $200k on what, R&D? I mean Keith brings up the 1.2M, which I get, but it was likely closer to $500k. But still, it sounds like he ate up 20% of his money with four machines to show for it.
I admit I've been out of the loop for a while and have read back the thread since I left, but I know I've missed some things (like allegations that these pins are out in people's homes somewhere). I just don't get a lot of it. I guess a lot of the missing money could have gone to paying 4 people's salaries for 3 years.

The problem with the last statement is there's no business record of paying any salaries. No w2, w4 or 1099. So while he may have funneled money to individuals helping what's the chances those payments were reported by those individuals as income? In an effort to scam the system they'll all be on the hook for repaying that money to the bankruptcy trustee...as to the court it just looks like a means to safeguard I'll gotten gains. And if somehow they convince the court it's legitimate income, then uncle Sam will be coming for its share.

#14363 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

The problem with the last statement is there's no business record of paying any salaries. No w2, w4 or 1099. So while he may have funneled money to individuals helping what's the chances those payments were reported by those individuals as income? In an effort to scam the system they'll all be on the hook for repaying that money to the bankruptcy trustee...as to the court it just looks like a means to safeguard I'll gotten gains. And if somehow they convince the court it's legitimate income, then uncle Sam will be coming for its share.

I understand all of that. The problem with that problem is that KK paid his employees under the table with no tax records. It's very likely that his employees claimed none of this on their taxes while being paid under the table. I doubt any of these payments show up on his spreadsheet except possibly under "miscellaneous" and "unknown." Even if you can prove (to a court - we all know they worked for him) that they worked for him, we have no idea how much they were paid.

What would a default judgement on that be? Tax evasion, but for how much? Would they have to cover a percentage of his debt? Would it just be criminal charges, and if so, on what amount of money? I really don't know.

#14364 2 years ago

The conundrum is that it's actually in Kevins best interest to now show those payments were for contract services....that might prevent claw back of monies by the trustee. However to do so would throw those individuals under the IRS bus. I wouldn't want to be anyone remotely associated with Kevin now or in the past 4 years. I'm sure he's lost a lot of "friends".

10
#14365 2 years ago

What is baffling is that Kevin initiated this voluntary bankruptcy process, but refused to cooperate with it ultimately leading to his arrest, and had inadequate financial records anyway so it was bound to lead to further problems, as well as failure to discharge his debts.

Quadruple whammy? Very dumb.

#14366 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

What is baffling is that Kevin initiated this voluntary bankruptcy process, but refused to cooperate with it ultimately leading to his arrest, and had inadequate financial records anyway so it was bound to lead to further problems, as well as failure to discharge his debts.
Quadruple whammy? Very dumb.

He's obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed...coupled with an unfounded arrogance and narcissism, he's a walking contradiction. Amazing that we (Me included) were so anxious to send money to him...hindsight 20/20 but I'm sure the signs were there. One more hatchet chop to the trust tree for me.

#14367 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

What is baffling is that Kevin initiated this voluntary bankruptcy process, but refused to cooperate with it ultimately leading to his arrest, and had inadequate financial records anyway so it was bound to lead to further problems, as well as failure to discharge his debts.
Quadruple whammy? Very dumb.

It's actually very typical here and indicates the filer has little to no understanding of bankruptcy law. They think that filing bankruptcy means Rommy, the mean guy, will leave him alone. But Rommy hired Keith soooo...

#14368 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Amazing that we (Me included) were so anxious to send money to him...hindsight 20/20 but I'm sure the signs were there.

If you were from Michigan and saw him you wouldn't have...the problem with the digital age.

#14369 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

If you were from Michigan and saw him you wouldn't have...the problem with the digital age.

a few of the more respected MI pinheads gave him money.

#14370 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

a few of the more respected MI pinheads gave him money.

haha...yeah they might be respected in Wisconson.

#14371 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

haha...yeah they might be respected in Wisconson.

lol. Pete and Dayhuff are good dudes regarless of state

#14372 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

If you were from Michigan and saw him you wouldn't have...the problem with the digital age.

Judging by his workshop in the early pictures, I could see that he wasn't a rich guy, but you want to believe that people are genuine and honest unless proven otherwise. It was only $250 for, if I remember right, around two years. There seemed to be regular progress. There seemed to be a working prototype and a plan for the code. The idea I think with any machine is to hone the prototype (hardware - software can always be updated later) and then when that's perfect, mass produce, right? The issues came when this prototype could never quite get past 80-90%. The few people who spoke the truth about the issues from the game at shows (which I admit a lot of us didn't want to hear) were uncovering valid concerns, but there always seemed to be progress. It helped that Kevin was available on the forums...just like that No Man's Sky guy.

I guess what I'm saying is that for a few years the slope seemed to be steadily rising. It was still rising when the request for more money was made. Then it plateaued for a year, then came crashing down in an instant. I still don't believe the deception was the plan since the beginning, but it doesn't matter. At some point KK and Klump had a talk about the IP and decided not to acquire it legally. Whether they lied to themselves that they would acquire it later, we can only speculate, but it wasn't done, they knew it wasn't done, and lied to every one of us that it was. End of story.

I still believe that had they had that license, 250 people would have eventually got their machines. Now, whether they would have had to use Experts of Dangerous money to do that since they squandered a shitload of Predator money, who knows.

Edit: Also, where that soundcloud Wolfmarsh?!

#14373 2 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Edit: Also, where that soundcloud Wolfmarsh?!

There was a hearing today, but no audio has been posted yet. Here are the minutes:

"Minute Entry. Hearing held. 2004 Exam of Debtor to take place at Mr. Nathanson's office on 3/17/2017. Order to follow as stated on the record. (related document(s): [34] Order on Motion for Contempt) (we )"

If there is audio, it should be up sometime tonight.

BTW Good luck at Pinception if you are going, I am not able to make it this year.

#14374 2 years ago

PACER is a little clunky, but the fact that most of this stuff is reliably available online the same day as the proceedings take place is nothing short of amazing!

In my experience, since this is a Friday, it might not post till Mon. But as wolfmarsh says tonight is a definite possibility and I will leave tracking down the audio and posting to him.

#14375 2 years ago

Thank you sir! I missed last year but I'll make an appearance there. To be honest, I took a break from pinball playing and news for about 7 months, but I'll give em hell. If it goes as late as it has been I'll have to leave early for a wedding reception I committed to long before the tournament was announced, considering I even make it that far.

I'd say I'll see you around but I'm heading back to MI in June. Probably get involved in the scene up there. Playing in Charleston these past few years has been fun. It's come a long way thanks to the routers. According to Pinball Map there's 65 machines in the Charleston area in the wild. Highest number in one establishment went from 3 to 8. Big difference from 7 years ago.

I also appreciate your help in the Predator matters. Best of luck my man!

#14376 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

haha...yeah they might be respected in Wisconson.

Truth !

#14377 2 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

I still believe that had they had that license, 250 people would have eventually got their machines.

So you're still living in denial

#14378 2 years ago

Audio from this morning is up:

https://soundcloud.com/user-800669943/1bk2016-21030-20170303-110030

Soundcloud tells me I am "over my minutes" so it is hiding the first audio track. I'll figure out how to deal with that later and get it back online.

#14379 2 years ago

Just listened to this, very disappointed the next meeting is not at the courthouse.

#14380 2 years ago

Over/Under on Kevin showing up on the 17th? I believe this is where shit hits the fan.

#14381 2 years ago

Boooo! C'mon Keith we deserve to hear when they lock his ass up!

#14382 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Audio from this morning is up:
https://soundcloud.com/user-800669943/1bk2016-21030-20170303-110030
Soundcloud tells me I am "over my minutes" so it is hiding the first audio track. I'll figure out how to deal with that later and get it back online.

Thanks for posting. Is the audio longer than 23 minutes? Are you saying something's missing from the link as posted?

#14383 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Just listened to this, very disappointed the next meeting is not at the courthouse.

That means no audio, right?

#14384 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

That means no audio, right?

screw audio, the judge tells Keith if they have it at the courthouse he can lock Kevin's ass in jail right then

#14385 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Thanks for posting. Is the audio longer than 23 minutes? Are you saying something's missing from the link as posted?

No, it is not longer than that. They just hid one of the first files. You are only allowed to have so many minutes of content available at the free level.

I am moving the older ones to youtube for long term storage. I'll continue posting the new ones as they come up on soundcloud, but will archive them to youtube as time goes on. I'll post the youtube links here as I transfer them.

#14386 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

No, it is not longer than that. They just hid one of the first files. You are only allowed to have so many minutes of content available at the free level.
I am moving the older ones to youtube for long term storage. I'll continue posting the new ones as they come up on soundcloud, but will archive them to youtube as time goes on. I'll post the youtube links here as I transfer them.

As much shit as I have given you, the least I can do is thank you for doing this. I enjoy the pure entertainment value here and want to see this ass rot for stealing everyone's Predator money.

#14387 2 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

I still believe that had they had that license, 250 people would have eventually got their machines.

Never. Not in a million years. A pinball machine is a rather complex piece of engineering. If he were making something like a retheme kit, yeah, he could have delivered *something*. In that case, you are looking at engineering a few items (maybe a playfield overlay, new translite, CPU swap, LCD ... BoP 2.0 would be a good example of what I'm talking about ... and I am in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM comparing Dutch Pinball to these cretins).

When you get up into appreciable numbers manufacturing anything, you have *got* to do a great job accounting, maintaining a BOM, setting up supply chains, etc. Then there are issues like paying salaries, taxes, etc. You have to treat a project like this as a *business*. There are *lots* of parts in a pinball machine when you consider everything from the screws to the frigging wires that tie it all together. Then there's stuff like software revision control and the like ... fail to do that and you run the risk of larger problems down the road as it is a foregone conclusion games *require* updates these days (sad, but true). Hell, basic QA testing before shipping isn't exactly a simple task for the inexperienced . There is *nothing* that indicates that these buffoons were doing/planning *anything* like this.

I'm forgetting a lot in this post ... there is *so* much stuff required to ramp up the manufacturing of a pinball machine ... it's a damn shame so many people got ripped off by this douchebag.

#14388 2 years ago

You bring up some good points that I can't dispute. I think you might've changed my mind.

#14389 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

That means no audio, right?

Maybe Keith will be good enough to record the meeting.

#14390 2 years ago

I want my limited edition Predator Pinball Shirt #81!
Or
Did he sell my #81 spot to somebody else as well?

#14391 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Maybe Keith will be good enough to record the meeting.

An audio recording would be great! However, Keith's comment back in late January suggested that it will probably be recorded by a court reporter and transcribed into a written transcript. Hopefully the transcript will be ordered and become public record.

"Make it so, No. 1!"

Quoted from KeithinMI:

Court proceedings are always recorded. Most of the time in bankruptcy matters, they are made part of the docket in the manner this one was.
2004(b) exams are typically done with a court reporter and while recorded to be transcribed, unless the transcript is ordered, it would not typically become public record like the recording of the court proceeding.
Any Court proceeding that may occur on Friday will be recorded and I would surmise, be available on PACER.

#14392 2 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

I want my limited edition Predator Pinball Shirt #81!
Or
Did he sell my #81 spot to somebody else as well?

Did anyone even get the T-shirts?

#14393 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Did anyone even get the T-shirts?

All I know is I did not.

#14394 2 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

All I know is I did not.

Same.. t-shirt, poster and I don't remember what... didn't get any

#14395 2 years ago

I'm Thinking of selling it for $4750...

IMG_0568 (resized).JPG

#14396 2 years ago

I actually was sent a shirt. It seemed really it or miss who they were posted out to. Guess that should have been a warning sign. We were betting that he could build 250 pinball machines when in reality he couldn't even cope with posting 50 or so shirts out.

#14397 2 years ago
Quoted from johngravenews:

It seemed really it or miss who they were posted out to. Guess that should have been a warning sign.

Oh yeah! This among others signs.
Like not being capable of knowing how much money I already "invested" when asking everyone for $.
And so on...

I can blame others... but I blame myself first.

#14398 2 years ago

So frustrating listening to the audio...how many opportunities is this douche going to get to drag this out. We can already predict he will be a no show on the 17th. I like Keith but I think that was a tactical error not having the 2004 at the courthouse. The immediate threat of jail seems to be the only thing that motivates KK and the judge was all but begging Keith to have it at the court for that reason.

#14399 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Did anyone even get the T-shirts?

I got 2

#14400 2 years ago

We are expected to believe from this hearing that Kevin has no business records, not even emails because he deleted the account. This is what he told his long-suffering attorney.

I agree that Keith should have agreed to hold the next hearing at the courthouse (as the judge recommended)- don't worry about the travel expenses Keith, really - because Kevin is going to jail at some point soon IMO. And damn well should, frankly. A million dollars and he has no business records and wiped his email...

This looks like a blatant case of fraud that requires criminal prosecution (allegedly, your Honour).

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
From: $ 159.95
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Pro
$ 18.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 22.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
From: $ 218.00
€ 3.70
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 159.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
$ 199.99
$ 125.00
Lighting - Backbox
Great American Pinball
$ 29.95
$ 369.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 89.99
$ 269.00
From: $ 218.00
From: $ 99.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 49.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 288 of 366.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside