(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

5 years ago



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#7701 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

You're reading this entire thread? Holy hell!

Yeah I just wait for 500 new posts, then read the last page to see if anyone got anywhere.

#7702 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

There were always some red flags with Skit-B, but this is definitely one of those red flags that I had missed until recently. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

yup... that is a HUGE red flag...

i would find it very difficult to believe that someone who was producing commercial pinball machines as their business would be able to get themselves qualified as a "non-profit"...

also, it would be pointless for him to do so... there wouldn't be any benefit in it, and all it would do is cause a ton of extra work...

#7703 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Ever see one of those movies where everyone dies in the end, like the Departed?

like they say...

it's always darkest before it goes totally black

#7704 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Ever see one of those movies where everyone dies in the end, like the Departed?

Spoiler alert!

16
#7705 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

You're reading this entire thread? Holy hell!

Actually, I think those who have read this entire thread need T-shirts . . .

#7706 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Actually, I think those who have read this entire thread need T-shirts . . .

Who wants to call Fox for the license?

#7707 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Actually, I think those who have read this entire thread need T-shirts . . .

Please make the print big, thanks to our eye strain.

10
#7708 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Actually, I think those who have read this entire thread need T-shirts . . .

shirt.PNG

#7709 4 years ago

That's a good one but survival is sadly a matter of subjective interpritation in this case.

#7710 4 years ago

add quotes

..."survived"...

32
#7711 4 years ago
t shirt (1).jpg
#7712 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

add quotes
..."survived"...

The quote marks are only needed if you are wearing it in a casket

Sorry for making this my "playground" Nate - (Coast to Coast pinball)

PEN

#7713 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

That's a good one but survival is sadly a matter of subjective interpritation in this case.

Indeed. Although pissed at Kevin Kulek for this mess, no one died nor got physically injured. Further, I am pissed at myself for wearing the SkitB blinders and not seeing this crap sooner.

Lesson learned.

#7714 4 years ago

I actually championed Kevin through the rough times

#7715 4 years ago
Quoted from BigPhil:

I actually championed Kevin through the rough times

I think Kevin's rough times are still ahead of him

#7716 4 years ago

I need to make a correction on previous posts I have made. On a couple of occasions, I referred to Aaron/FAST as a vendor on Predator, when that is the not the case, he was a vendor on EoD. It was my bad including him with other vendors, and I think I made the error due to Aaron being vocal in this thread the last couple of months, as he was working with Kevin on EoD and was in contact with him, and reporting on some of those conversations as he was trying to support him in his overall efforts.

Like myself and others, we had valid reasons to think he was licensed for Predator, considering the the fact that it was clear he was licensed on EoD, which was the project Aaron was involved in. In addition he talked about all of the things that would occur with a valid license, you can certainly see why Aaron and others, like myself, believed he had the license. Once it came out that was not the case, Aaron parted ways with Kevin.

To be clear, Aaron was not providing hardware for predator. I apologize to Aaron if my posts brought unwarranted attention on him, especially if anyone thought he made money from Predator.

Oh, and I want to be careful that I don't now implicate another vendor, it is my understanding that Kevin had not bought any of the p-roc related hardware other than for the prototype.

#7717 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Indeed. Although pissed at Kevin Kulek for this mess, no one died nor got physically injured. Further, I am pissed at myself for wearing the SkitB blinders and not seeing this crap sooner.
Lesson learned.

Quoted from BigPhil:

I actually championed Kevin through the rough times

Going back to see his comments, I'm forced to see my own, and it's embarrassing.

Dude made us look like fools.

17
#7718 4 years ago
7379018.jpg
#7719 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

yup... that is a HUGE red flag...
i would find it very difficult to believe that someone who was producing commercial pinball machines as their business would be able to get themselves qualified as a "non-profit"...
also, it would be pointless for him to do so... there wouldn't be any benefit in it, and all it would do is cause a ton of extra work...

I don't think you are giving him enough credit here. The "non-profit" BS he was spouting was calculated, and it was a lie designed to convince himself that he was operating within the fair use parameters that he was very much aware of.

Most likely his random contact at Fox told him "if you aren't making money off of it, we don't care".

And then he concocted a story that he could feed to everybody. I honestly doubt he did so in a blatant attempt to defraud people out of their money. But it was clearly a conscious attempt to defraud people about the existence (or lack thereof) of the license. Which begs the question - how many people would have sent him $ knowing it was an unlicensed project? Answer: very few.

34
#7720 4 years ago

If you are a victim please gather the following to report to,the detective in midland. Please don't wait. Please call,him right away.

1- all your details, DOB, address, how much you paid, when, how much, in a one page summary email. Include dates! Declare yourself a victim of KKK and here are my details.

2- evidence of any contact you had with KKK - notes from phone calls, recorded messages, and emails. Attach all this to your email.

3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.

I have to make you find his phone number yourself. Detective Brent Benzing with the Midland County Sheriff. Only 5 people have reported today...WTF!?!

Don't lay down for this! Call the detective! Gather info and email the detective ! That information is bullets in his gun.

Right now, as we speak, KKK is relaxing. He DOES have counsel now. They are taking the position that NONE of this is criminal, it's all civil. His position is he never lied, never defrauded. Don't let him do this to us. Help prove to that detective what a rat bastard snitch Kevin Kulek is.

14
#7721 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

If you are a victim please gather the following to report to,the detective in midland. Please don't wait. Please call,him right away.
1- all your details, DOB, address, how much you paid, when, how much, in a one page summary email. Include dates! Declare yourself a victim of KKK and here are my details.
2- evidence of any contact you had with KKK - notes from phone calls, recorded messages, and emails. Attach all this to your email.
3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.
I have to make you find his phone number yourself. Detective Brett Benzing with the Midland County Sheriff. Only 5 people have reported today...WTF!?!
Don't lay down for this! Call the detective! Gather info and email the detective ! That information is bullets in his gun.
Right now, as we speak, KKK is relaxing. He DOES have counsel now. They are taking the position that NONE of this is criminal, it's all civil. His position is he never lied, never defrauded. Don't let him do this to us. Help prove to that detective what a rat bastard snitch Kevin Kulek is.

Please do as Rommy asks!! You guys should all be calling Detective Brent Benzing with the Midland County Sherriff.

#7722 4 years ago

You should edit that post and spell his name out. The more his name hits on these threads the more google will keep it at the top and draw folks to this mess.

#7723 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

If you are a victim please gather the following to report to,the detective in midland. Please don't wait. Please call,him right away.
1- all your details, DOB, address, how much you paid, when, how much, in a one page summary email. Include dates! Declare yourself a victim of KKK and here are my details.
2- evidence of any contact you had with KKK - notes from phone calls, recorded messages, and emails. Attach all this to your email.
3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.
I have to make you find his phone number yourself. Detective Brett Benzing with the Midland County Sheriff. Only 5 people have reported today...WTF!?!
Don't lay down for this! Call the detective! Gather info and email the detective ! That information is bullets in his gun.
Right now, as we speak, KKK is relaxing. He DOES have counsel now. They are taking the position that NONE of this is criminal, it's all civil. His position is he never lied, never defrauded. Don't let him do this to us. Help prove to that detective what a rat bastard snitch Kevin Kulek is.

Rommy, you need to contact rlslick, who started the "Attention: Predator buyers list..." thread. He has been collecting contact details from the Pinside members there.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/attention-predator-buyers-list

#7724 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

If you are a victim please gather the following to report to,the detective in midland. Please don't wait. Please call,him right away.
1- all your details, DOB, address, how much you paid, when, how much, in a one page summary email. Include dates! Declare yourself a victim of KKK and here are my details.
2- evidence of any contact you had with KKK - notes from phone calls, recorded messages, and emails. Attach all this to your email.
3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.
I have to make you find his phone number yourself. Detective Brett Benzing with the Midland County Sheriff. Only 5 people have reported today...WTF!?!
Don't lay down for this! Call the detective! Gather info and email the detective ! That information is bullets in his gun.
Right now, as we speak, KKK is relaxing. He DOES have counsel now. They are taking the position that NONE of this is criminal, it's all civil. His position is he never lied, never defrauded. Don't let him do this to us. Help prove to that detective what a rat bastard snitch Kevin Kulek is.

Rommy, thanks but please correct your post as the detective's name is actually BRENT Benzing. If you Google "detective brent benzing midland 989", you will see his contact phone number listed in the first result.

Also Rommy, please share the detective's e-mail address with rlslick as he has most of the Predator buyers all together on an e-mail list right now:
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/rlslick/contact

#7725 4 years ago

I can't say this with 100% certainty but I have dealt with his wife before to obtain some photo permissions for the Michigan Pinball Expo site and she's a talented photographer. I don't know her on a personal level but I do know that her business has been doing very well (before this Predator nightmare I think) for a long time (slammed even) so I'm less suspicious about the money being used for or by her--but again I don't authoritatively know. Not that anyone who's got money tied up in this cares!

This whole thing is just so depressing. I remember going to Kevin early on when I was just getting started in P-ROC and he was very helpful. But I *always* felt suspicious about the licensing answers he gave me (or didn't give me) which made me nervous because we talked a little bit about possibly doing some of his playfields on my CNC. I just kept thinking "How can this guy get a license for Predator? It's like a HUGE, famous freaking IP with music and big time stars and all that and this is basically a couple of Jethros chain smoking out of a garage in mid-Michigan." And of course, trying to build a SINGLE machine of my own (even with the benefit of many 8-10 hour manic phases and a CNC machine), I knew that the math regarding labor required for 2 or 3 guys to make 250 machines just didn't work under any scenario.

I hope you guys can recoup something.

#7726 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

If you are a victim please gather the following to report to,the detective in midland. Please don't wait. Please call,him right away.
1- all your details, DOB, address, how much you paid, when, how much, in a one page summary email. Include dates! Declare yourself a victim of KKK and here are my details.
2- evidence of any contact you had with KKK - notes from phone calls, recorded messages, and emails. Attach all this to your email.
3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.
I have to make you find his phone number yourself. Detective Brett Benzing with the Midland County Sheriff. Only 5 people have reported today...WTF!?!
Don't lay down for this! Call the detective! Gather info and email the detective ! That information is bullets in his gun.
Right now, as we speak, KKK is relaxing. He DOES have counsel now. They are taking the position that NONE of this is criminal, it's all civil. His position is he never lied, never defrauded. Don't let him do this to us. Help prove to that detective what a rat bastard snitch Kevin Kulek is.

Send the info via email. I'm sure he doesn't want 2000 phone calls.

#7727 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

You're reading this entire thread? Holy hell!

When I come in to a thread like this WAY late, I only concentrate on any post that has enough upvotes to merit a green color or and with down votes. And all boob pics, of course.

This will still take about three days. I keep telling myself to skip to the end but I wanted to see how opinions, ideas, personalities etc changed as it developed. I wish I had something witty, brilliant or at least helpful to add.

#7728 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Don't let him do this to us. Help prove to that detective what a rat bastard snitch Kevin Kulek is.

Keep level headed! Don't make them think you are a bunch of nuts looking for revenge. Just report the facts.

#7729 4 years ago

The detective is on the team already no doubt. CALL HIM! Do not listen to naysayers, CALL! Don't hold back (Ted) , let him know how bad this guy sucks. Be honest, never lie or exaggerate to a detective. And for the love of all that is holy DO NOT threaten anyone while speaking to the detective. Last thing you want is sympathy for KKK.

34
#7730 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Further, I am pissed at myself for wearing the SkitB blinders and not seeing this crap sooner.
Lesson learned.

Quoted from BigPhil:

I actually championed Kevin through the rough times

skit-b-blinders.jpg

#7731 4 years ago

3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.

Has anyone compiled #3 yet?

#7732 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Be honest, never lie or exaggerate to a detective. And for the love of all that is holy DO NOT threaten anyone while speaking to the detective.

Yes! I'm still not sure if it would be a good idea to send this site to the detective....

#7733 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yes! I'm still not sure if it would be a good idea to send this site to the detective....

It's done.

#7734 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.
Has anyone compiled #3 yet?

Yes someone has because the detective was looking through it when I talked to him. It was pissing him off.

#7735 4 years ago

Er, never mind....

#7736 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.
Has anyone compiled #3 yet?

Yesterday, I posted references in two separate podcasts where he spoke positively of having a license. He also stated the company was a non-profit. I'm not sure if there are specific laws pertaining to claiming to be a non-profit or charity in the solicitation of goods, or if that would fall under general fraud.

15
#7737 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

3- another email attached labeled Web Links where you put links to incriminating videos, podcasts, and websites. There will be lots of duplication but don't worry about that just do it.
Has anyone compiled #3 yet?

Here's a start:

http://www.pinballnews.com/comment/predatorpinball.html
http://www.pinballnews.com/comment/predatorpinball2.html
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-updates

Quoted from PinB:

Yes, Kevin talked about getting the Predator license during their Expo 2012 seminar which can be heard here, starting at the 4:20 mark:
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2012/predator.mp3

Quoted from jonnyo:

2012 interview for Spooky Pinball Podcast.
9:00 - Interview with Skit-b begins.
10:30 - Talks about the licensing. "It's all taken care of, it's all legit." "We have a couple close friends over there who are helping us out."
12:00 - talks about production details, production number, "Hopefully shipping games by the end of the summer.(2012)"
16:15 - Says he's "not exactly welcome back there" referring to his old job
20:45 - Hosts asks how he will pull off building 250 games. Kevin says he has friend and volunteers chomping at the bit to help. "There's like local intern-type kids who go to the college and want in on it."
22:30 - Talks about being a non-profit. "If we have a lot of money rolling through, we'll get lost in it, but if we're legally obligated to keep track of everything, and not spend anything, it helps a lot."
http://www.spookypinball.com/http:/spookypinball.com/spooky-pinball-podcast-show-26/

Quoted from jonnyo:

Oof. Go to about 1:19:15. Kevin discusses the license for EoD, then they ask him about his experiences with the Predator licensing. Knowing what we do now, it's pretty clear he was lying straight through his teeth without skipping a beat. He discusses artwork that was rejected by Fox, and working with a contact at Fox on an ongoing basis.
At about 1:23:30 he talks about doing an unlicensed theme. He says that Skit-B might do an unlicensed theme once they've graduated from the mantle of 'boutique' maker to a real producer of games, but that an unlicensed theme at such an early stage would make it look like they were "just cheap and didn't want to pay for licensing."
At 1:24:30 he talks about working for several weeks to get the license for Long Tall Sally, and says it was one of the most expensive aspects of the machine.
He's a very convincing liar.
http://www.pinheadz.com.au/podcast/ppp003-pinheadz-pinball-podcast-ep3-the-greatest-v-the-newest/

Quoted from jonnyo:

"Game is officially licensed to carry the Predator brand and has a giant list of sound and voice clips cut from the movie itself. There is a vulgarity switch in the settings menu to turn off all swearing, if you have a family-friendly game room and aim to keep it that way."
"Production information: We expect the start producing our first handful of machines within the next month or two, meaning we SHOULD have a few people out there with Predators under their (gigantic) Christmas trees." (2012)
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-predator-info-thread#post-435997
"The licensing and likeness costs and all that aren't really something we're allowed to talk much about, unfortunately. If you're wondering if certain characters will appear in the game / artwork, I can tell you that all of the notable characters are present in both.
I'm not exactly clear what you mean with the term "oversight." We haven't run into any qualms with anyone about how the characters are being portrayed or anything, if that's what you mean. I know there was a big hiccup with the Demolition Man over something like that with Wesley Snipes and they had to go through multiple backglass designs because of it, but we haven't had any issues with anything like that, so we're happy."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo#post-199204
"This is the magic of being a small, non-profit company. Not only does it keep the games more affordable, everything we get goes right back into the company itself as a direct investment towards the next game. Sounds like a system that works, to me."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo#post-202832
"When your game is about to go out onto the shop floor, you will be contacted in advance. You make your deposit and the game gets built. Once the game is done, you simply pay the remainder and get your game. If you need to opt out of your pre-order, you can just contact us before your game is coming up and let us know. Of course, your pre-order spot and number would go back up for grabs, as well."
(This was actually the reason I decided to gamble on this pre-order. Since I was far down the list, I figured I would see games coming off the line before I had to put any "real" money (i.e. $2750+) down.)
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo/page/3#post-211657
"Our company profile is set up that way on purpose. We are listed as a non-profit entertainment company, so any revenue that flows through our company needs to stay within our company. This means that every time a Predator goes out the door, we're that much closer to not only making another game, we're that much closer to getting our own fancy CNC machine, silk-screener, injection molder, etc. Whenever something else like that lands in-house, that's one less thing that has to be contracted out, and drives the cost of games down ever further."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo/page/3#post-211709
BigPhil said:
Poeple have been burned in the past and I guess I'm just after as much reassurance as possible that this will actually happen.
"I wish I could say more, but I simply can't say anything other than the fact that we have legal right to use the Predator license for our purposes. I hate this legal crap just as much as anybody..."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo/page/6#post-215698
swinks said:
does that mean no license is required or still is required?
"It's complicated It's not like one of those open-domain things, or something like that, if that's what you're asking."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo/page/4#post-213473
"Playfield design and software is done by yours truly, Kevin W. Kulek.
Playfield artwork is done by James Dubay.
Assembly design and R&D is done by Aaron Klumpp.
All of our paperwork - both monetary and legal - is done by Kathy L. Kulek."
(Emphasis on MONETARY and LEGAL paperwork done by Kathy Kulek)
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo#post-198194
navajas said:
Non-profits, by definition, can absolutely NOT make a profit, that's why they're called non-profits. They can make "surplus revenue" which are the assets that must be reinvested into the company. And obviously they can take a salary.
"This is what it's all about, pretty much. We can take a salary, but it has to be documented and considered "reasonable" in comparison to the money flowing through the company, so while we will be able to survive, we won't be showing up to any shows with sexy foreign cars and slick suits or anything. My 15 year old American pickup truck and t-shirt-n-jeans will suit me just fine. For the people, by the people, I suppose... "
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo/page/28#post-392177
" As I said a second ago, we are very close to our release candidate, which, to a programmer or engineer, means damn near done. Now we just have to wait for the business end to catch up, along with legal stuffs in the interim. Art finished, art approvals, toys finalized, parts lists confirmed, suppliers stocked, the list goes on."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-predator-info-thread/page/47#post-669127
navajas said:
One question I was going to ask had I been able to go to the seminar was does Fox have an IP police/enforcer/oversight guy that you needs to sign off on things? Does the game have to go before some suits for review and approval or anything like that?
Also, I was going to ask what Kevin and Aaron did before this.
"Fox has access to everything they own, obviously, and they have a say over how it's all used. They generally don't care about much in the way it applies to pinball specifically, they just need to know that it's been unmodified and isn't being used way out of context. Likenesses are a little more touchy, but pretty much the same. In short, gameplay changes mean nothing to them, but art and sounds mean everything."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-predator-info-thread/page/94#post-927087
(2013-07-17) "For build timing, I can only assume here, but we expect initial units to be completed and shipping out BEFORE the Chicago expo this year"
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-predator-info-thread/page/101#post-993081
(2013-08-26) "It's no secret that working with contractors to get parts made takes time and has holdups, but things are moving along quite well. We've gotten some stuff in recently that hasn't been shown/talked about yet that are extremely cool, like custom backbox lighting by CoinTaker lighting! The final game is coming together nicely, and no worries about a complete game this year."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-predator-info-thread/page/106#post-1070989

#7738 4 years ago

link to the locked update thread.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-updates

Thumbs up! PinB

#7739 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

There were always some red flags with Skit-B, but this is definitely one of those red flags that I had missed until recently. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

Exactly! He's still lying of course, but let's imagine for a minute that it really is a nonprofit organization. Any and all proceeds go straight into the company. There would be no money left over to refund. In either case your money is gone.

12
#7740 4 years ago

A lot of people assume non-profit means that their balance sheets have to say zero at the end of the year. That is not true.

Lots of non-profits have huge bank accounts that grow year after year.

#7741 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Lots of non-profits have huge bank accounts that grow year after year.

Scientology?

#7742 4 years ago

And please remember this when talking to the detective....the more time he spends listening to you whine about non relevant issues (like how it was your grandson's college fund etc) the less time he has to pursue his investigation.

To quote a famous TV show "the facts mam, just the facts". This is going to be a time consuming investigation for him.

#7743 4 years ago

Health insurance companies, for example.

14
#7745 4 years ago

Not really. We are doing most of the work and the evidence does not require much investigation. It's laying out on the table.

Also - he, like most detectives, HATES getting lied to. Kevin is lying to him and he knows it. It's making him angry.

Keep on lying Kevin! Don't for one instant turn to the one thing that could impress that detective, the truth. Kevin as long as you stick with your story as it is now - straight to jail.

Ps- to Aaron - gotcha! Yours is coming too. You got out too late bro. Lmao. Your trip to MGC was a perp walk.

Pps- to all victims - please add Aaron K(spelling) to your complaint. I'll update the instructions.

#7746 4 years ago

This is all awesome to hear. Best of luck guys!

#7747 4 years ago

You know, I've been thinking.

I'm curious to hear from Jetzxi, who had all of the inside info on Kevin leading up to this shitstorm. Not to witch hunt. Just curious about his take on it.

And on that same page, HemiOrange09 was working with Kevin to produce a lighting show they were going to sell for an extra $250. Just curious what happened to that guy, too.

#7748 4 years ago

Bonus garbage - and an important reminder not to preorder ... The duck I mean.

image.jpg
#7749 4 years ago

It may be important to reiterate - the stages of anger are so clear here it is uncanny - the only person I can get satisfaction from is KKK. No other entity can provide me recompense of any sort. If I am angry at any other party it's just wasted energy cuz I can't do anything about it.

#7750 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Also - he, like most detectives, HATES getting lied to. Kevin is lying to him and he knows it. It's making him angry.

The detective is actually speaking with Kevin? Or did I miss that you mean the lies are being revealed through the evidence?

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