And it has come around again to threats of physical violence.

What did you think "professional" means? Getting paid for doing something makes one a professional by definition.

Amazing. When a doctor messes up and a patient dies, does the family find where he lives and pay a visit? No, they sue the shit out of them and the malpractice insurance pays up. If a wrong can be proven.

Thank goodness we have pinball insurance to fall back on!

Well, if they were practicing medicine without a license they would go to jail.

No license, crime.

If so, they should see post #87 in this thread and erase all doubt...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/have-a-chance-to-get-my-grail-back/page/2

participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs

Now Please Go Pound Sand....

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa...

First, before even getting to the show thing, I saw what you said before this...

Here's the thing - Kevin didn't actually throw you under the bus. You were the one that came on and posted that the license was legit. From what you have said, he didn't tell you to do that, you did it on your own. And that's fine - but then, you're saying that a show should vet the license?

Okay, I'm a show organizer. A show who actually had the Predator prototype come to it. A show who promoted the fact that you could play the Predator prototype at our show. Do I feel like I have egg on my face or that I even regret having the game at the show?

No!

The Midwest Gaming Classic is a large enough show that we do our best to make sure that licenses are legit. We have licensing information in the vendor agreements. It's not perfect - as a matter of fact, we were alerted to some things this past year that probably shouldn't have been at the event, and so we need to modify the agreement for next year to help combat that, but it is ultimately up to the vendor to know if their stuff is legit or not.

I make the same argument about multi-cade type games. We don't allow MAME because it's easy to verify that those boards aren't legit. But there are some multi-game boards that are legit. There are some that aren't. Many of those that aren't are not shut down by the licensors and you can get them pretty easily.

We have people in the industry come to the MGC, and when they do if we have any of them ask to remove something they know isn't legit, we would gladly shut it down immediately.

At NO time do I go through every game and try to make sure that everything in it is perfectly okay. Doesn't even matter if it is something we publicize is going to be there. In this case, Kevin and I were put in contact (I don't know who contacted whom first), he asked if he could bring the Predator machine his company was working on producing to the show to show off, and I said sure. We promoted it the same way we did any machine that is in production at our show. It isn't up to me to call up Fox and see if it is legit. Besides that, I've been on the other side of licensing before, and often times they won't reveal much if at all about it. If it isn't legit, by the sheer fact that we are a giant show and that tons of eyes are looking at it, he runs the very real risk of getting caught in his lie.

Kevin was bold enough to not worry about that and bring the game and show it off high profile at events like ours. He eventually got caught at it. It sucks. But that doesn't mean that he shouldn't have been able to come to the show, or if I'm partially at fault for his crap. We presented the game as a new game from a new company, nothing more.

Finally, for all those people talking about the 'can you prove he had the intent to defraud'? I'll simply say this - when I spoke with Kevin at the time he was coming to the MGC, I thought that he was both very sincere and excited about the project. At this point in time, I do personally believe that it was his goal to finish the games. When he got caught without the license, I think that you can show the intent to defraud because he soon thereafter asked for more money. If you are told you can't do something, and you are worried about if you can refund the money or not, the last thing that you should do is take more money so the credit card companies and whatnot can take bigger bites out of it all. I think it's pretty easy to show that at that point, Kevin realized that he was sitting on a gold mine, and he could work around the Fox license stuff just enough to get a ton more money in before he had to throw up his hands and say that it wouldn't work.

No matter what, once the license stuff was discovered, Kevin did nothing to make things right. It makes me really wonder about his intent. And if only about ten games were made, let's even say that is was a quarter million that he got... where did it go? I agree with those who think that more will come out. If Kevin truly is bankrupt, and you're living in a supposedly $30,000 house, where did the other $220,000 go? Let's even say the ten protos that are out there were $10k apiece to build, we're still $120,000 apart...

A quarter million is pretty darn easy to blow through in 3+ years of developing a pin. Artwork. Coders. Parts for 10 games. Travel expenses to shows. Website and advertising materials (including shirts they made.) Paying Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage for appearances at the show to announce EOD? EOD parts and development (that pin was much further along then most realize). We haven't heard the actual number VirtuaPin received but I've heard multiple times it was 100k. Big chunk of change went to Matt at Back Alley for toys. Money spent to develop the ramp molds. If Kevin had 300-350K ever (especially after the credit card charge backs and PayPal freeze) it is not that difficult to see how that much money was easily spent.

And what is your point? Seems like you're agreeing with me, she's a pro. Amateurs do it for free.

What evidence do you have that she isn't a competent photographer? Did she open a studio and publish an admittedly sad web site just so she could "call [herself] a pro"? Or to try and make money?

Just playing devil's advocate, not defending these crumb bums!

Unless you are Kevin, as has already been covered, I don't get how you can think that $100k+ disappearing into absolutely nothing is easy to do.

Artwork. Did you see the art?

Coders. Even paying one coder $40k for am entire year's worth of code, which would be crazy, won't get us to $100k.

Parts for ten games. Already factored in at tons more than it probably was.

Travel expenses to shows. This simply can't be that much. If he hit $1k a show, that would be tons. There was what, ten shows he went to?

Web site. $20ish per month. Lets call is $1k for good measure.

Advertising. Even if he had 100 shirts made, that's about $500.

So, pre "appearance" fees, the above things should carve off at most another $65,500. That leaves $54,500 that just disappeared?

The numbers don't close to add up. The difference between this and the Jpop thing is that at least with Jpop you could kind of trace the money and understand what happened. With this...

Ah, Lady Kaneda, the lure of pinside is just too much

You make it sound like its a problem.

I am most definitely not saying the money was spent wisely at all. Not in the slightest. However, you're in serious denial if you think a couple hundred thousand could not have been blown through. JPop rarely left his "studio" (except to bring a couple empty cabs with decals to expo?) but he managed to blow through much more money. If Kevin decided to pay himself a 50K salary over those 3 years, he could have! That's not illegal. Yes, I too would love to see his tax returns though, lol. But come on, every lunch or dinner could be a business expense for the whole team. When he went to CAX alone I recall seeing his wife and mom (and Aaron?) there too. I don't believe they all drove across country (they flew) and guess where that money came from (not just airfare but hotel, meals, etc.) There were numerous shows and this went on for 3+ years. And maybe the folks privy to Kevin's deposition now know the answer but do you really think getting Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage to show for that event was free?? Heck no. Again, no way Kevin spent the money anywhere near as responsibly as he should have, but I don't think it's hard to blow through money like that. He got way ahead of himself.

I make it sound like we live in a civilized society.

Physical assault is illegal. Condoning or encouraging it is against Pinside rules and has been moderated in this thread previously.

My apologies if this is an "off-topic" post. Posting this here because this thread is saturated with annoying posts from the following user:

I thought that 'kaneda' guy was banned? Or is he just banned under his other account? How is this not blatantly obvious?

The rules are different for some......

Many, many times. For many, many accounts. He's already been let back after promising to change, then getting perma banned again. Then of course is the fact that links to his websites were also banned. Apparently he's found the backdoor way to pinside, just pretend you're a woman.

It really is amazing to me that he has been allowed to continue to post here. I guess it would be too much to ask for Robin or the mods to chime in on this issue, because it really is an embarrassment to Pinside.

Agree.

Thank God for the ignore button. I encourage people to use it. I have just three people ignored and it makes this place 1000% better.

The answer is that there has been some sort of plea deal obviously. They let him crawl back. But that MO was seen right from the start... Go too far and then beg for forgiveness. But kaneda was smart to never go after robin or his staff.. So they haven't given up on their willingness to try to recover things.

Is this your assumption or has there been some type of official statement from Robin or a moderator?

Clearly you and Kevin think alike.

As do you and Whysnow. Keep paying your lawyer. It's not like you're giving him money for something he can never deliver on, right?

At what point do you remove Predator from your Pinside collection?

Dam_Son_(resized).jpg

How much do you think it really takes for people to keep going after Kevin? Unless his lawyer is getting benefits by sleeping with Kevin's fat "I'm a witch" wife, he is losing much more than the people coming after him. He is, and will be, bled slowly. His best option is to take after daddy and be last seen asking to borrow his kids truck, and then disappearing to become a 'lot lizard' and smoking pole for cash.

Interesting leaps in logic. Just because there is no grand announcement doesn't mean we aren't monitoring things.

Now, since the subject of Ladyslingshot is not related to this particular thread, it doesn't really have a place here.

If you are interested in discussing anything regard moderation, please feel free to open a moderator feedback thread.

and 5 pages of nothing new. Damn.

Would you happen to have any Grey Poupon?

You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Keep preaching drop the legal action. Not going to happen. And why would you care, unless affiliated with Kevin?

The legal action is working. This proves HappyDayz (Kevin) fears us. Let's keep going!

Edit: Welp, I was close!

He cares because happydayz is Tim Fife whom currently is in possession of predator #2.
He is friends with SkitB and also seems to be directly concerned about the machine he has in his possession.

That's just silly Miguel Jones. What exactly is there for me to worry about? While I do know Kevin I can honestly say I have not seen him in years now (or anyone else that was associated with Skit-B) and have no idea what he is up to these days. If you want to carry on with the legal action go for it. It doesn't affect me. Although, I personally think if you stand any chance of finding satisfaction it would be in proving bankruptcy fraud (IF he is hiding assets.) That wouldn't make me happy personally but you seem pretty vindictive.

You have already expressed no ill feelings for Clay having a Predator (or Predator parts) so I'm not sure why it would be different for anyone else.

Oh snap!!!

Is you game even playing anymore? i heard you are having issues with it.

Man, the level of douche you'd have to be to own one of these now is off the charts. I'd love to have one simply to use as an outhouse.

Actually that's not his name, Whysnow doesn't play soccer. But carry on.

Weird. That was his name when he contacted me through FB and threatened me and my family.

My sole reason for getting my hands on the game was to look at the game code and how they solved several other issues (like boot-up sequence and powering on) for my own P-ROC project. That was it. No other grand conspiracy.

Before - I don't know Kevin
Now - While I do know Kevin

Your quotes.

proc forums?

Now that you've had the time to figure all that out, is it time to light the game on fire yet? Or at the bare minimum get rid of it?

Owning a Predator will always invite hard feelings toward you, and you aren't helping yourself earn any favor by coming in here and telling people to stop going after Kevin.

I know for a fact that Kevin contacts people about wanting to get back into making pinballs, so now that you've outed yourself as one of the vultures that swooped in and got a pin from him, I don't believe you that you haven't talked to him. If you don't want to get caught up in the legal stuff, get rid of the game.

To everyone involved in the legal battle, keep it up! This is proof positive that what you are doing is having an effect on Kevin.

Lol.

It's just like the interrogation room at the police department. If somebody is lying, their story eventually changes.

Your constant attempts to gaslight everybody into believing that legal proceedings aren't affecting Kevin continue to have the opposite effect. It's fun to watch you get tripped up by your own lies.

Thanks for letting this be known to the public. Now it makes sense why he's so uptight about people pursuing legal action. He wants to keep his precious rarity to himself when he KNOWS he supported Kevin Kulek (who may be a con artist) by purchasing the machine.

That's horse shit. You can do that with just the source code. You don't need the hardware (playfield and mechs) for that. Try again. And remember this community is full of all skill sets so don't try to bullshit people.

Clearly:

If HappyDayz is Tim Fife then he is using a duplicate account to get around his frozen PinChilli account correct?

The fact he came here to talk people out of continuing litigation and if anything has now fired people up with the opposite effect is just great. Let Kevin fight with his family and friends.

So is your predator even working?