(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

5 years ago



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#11301 3 years ago

Even if you could acquire the parts, playfield, ramps and plastics and could assemble a game, you wouldn't be able to drive it without the software and the machine configs. I don't see this ever happening, and that's probably a good thing. It's interesting from a pinball history that one full game survived but I think we've seen the last of any public displays.

Good luck to all of the victims. I truly hope justice is served.

Quoted from cfh:

There's no predators to end up with. There's just black #1 which Kevin doesn't even have possession of anymore (it's on loan to a guy in Chicago, so says rumors), and the sole production predator #2 which Tim has. and I can't see tim ever selling it.
That said there are parts to make a predator, but not enough parts (as discussed earlier, ramps are the major stumbling block.) as for the parts, many were given to people that worked with Kevin. A lot of these guys took parts with them when they left the project because Kevin didn't have any money to pay them. So they ended up with miscellaneous oddities. Kevin probably still has some things like all the back alley creation parts (since it appears they delivered all those parts in full for the entire project.) but a lot of parts are in very short supply, like say playfields and plastics, as only a test run of those was produced.
Making a predator is no easy task either. It is extremely complex and would take a lot of time and knowledge. What I heard it took Kevin three weeks full time to make predator #2. I'm not quite sure how he would've kicked out 200+ games, as it could've taken close to forever to get it all done, unless he really streamlined things. like what spooky pinball does. Of course Kevin was hand making the complete wiring harness, which is probably the biggest time suck in the whole project.
To the people that have playfields and plastics, I'm not quite sure why they have them. I know they all have dreams of making their own predator. But to be honest, I don't really see this is a feasible option unless you really know a lot about pinball in general. And have lots of tools and patience. The bill of material costs, minus the playfield and plastics, is about $2500 (proc boards and computer and dmd and power supplies (four or five of them) compromise a good chunk of that number). That just get you started and you haven't even gotten the playfield, plastics or ramps yet. It's doable but not for the faint of heart.

#11302 3 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

It's not clear to me if he
1) ignorantly assumed he was ok on the IP at the start and was taking money in good faith, later realizing he had a problem and forged ahead anyway, still taking money.
2) The above, but no new money taken when he realized there was a problem on IP usage
3) had a suspicion from the start he should not have been using the IP but tried it anyway and took money regardless

I believe first it was #3. He thought the could get away without a license. But then "looked" into it and realized he needed one, but thought if there was no profit then he'd fall under common use for fan work.

Then it was #1. He assumed he was ok with the license, so he took money.

Quoted from investingdad:

..at what point in the accepting money phase did this become fraud?

Once he received a letter from the license holder to stop making the machines and continued to take more money (the bulk of the funds) it became fraud. It wasn't until much later that the community found out that the project was dead and a scam.

#11303 3 years ago

Somewhat of a topic direction change:

Surely Kevin still has some people he communicates with and that know what he is up to these days. Is he job hunting or is he not looking for any employment? How about his old partner Aaron? Does he have a job?

#11304 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

BTW. My real first name is Kim and I'm a heterosexual male. I also shave my head bald. Feel free to poke fun at either or both of those items. Everyone else does.

hey! you told me that our time together was special. I'm thinking that you just say that to all of the guys to get them to buy you free drinks

#11305 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

How about his old partner Aaron? Does he have a job?

I think he works at an auto shop? What happened to the Duck Hunt Pin?

#11306 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Making a predator is no easy task either. It is extremely complex and would take a lot of time and knowledge.

To me, based on your reputation, experience and knowledge, this comment adds some support to your statements that you are not making one.

Based on all I have seen and know it is not 'extremely complex'. Certainly, if you have never built a machine from scratch or even done a playfield swap, there is a long learning curve, but, that does not make it 'complex' and there are far more complex 'home-brew' games out there and as previously discussed almost everything on this game is stock (the ramps being the big custom item). This game has no more complexity than most sys11 games.

The machine has only 16 solenoids/drivers (There are also a half dozen or so flashers that also use drivers.). Of the 16, the flippers accounted for 4 (power, hold on each), three pops and 2 slings, so that is 9, add in the trough kicker, shooter kicker and knocker and there are only 4 coils used for 'game features' (two ejects, a popper and a diverter). The game I am currently working on, has almost double that.

There about 40 lamps and 40 switches, so a pretty good chunk of those matrixes would need to be wired, not particularly hard or complicated, but is time consuming. In addition, you could easily switch over to direct switch boards vs matrix, which adds some cost, but has less complex wiring. In addition, on a one off game, I'd argue you don't create a wiring harness, you just map it out and wire it up, doing switches, then lamps and then solenoids. I would assume Kevin was trying to develop a wiring harness design on the last machine he built, since that would be needed for any level of production.

Of course there are those UV lamps, so that is maybe where the "extremely complex" comes in

Guessing it took Kevin a month full-time because he was drunk or stoned while doing it.

It is interesting that EoD was supposed to be built by JJP -- which is humorous on many levels. Have to assume he could not do that that on Predator either due to the cost or the lack of the proper license.

#11307 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

As told there's only two kevin made predators: The #1 black prototype, and the #2 tim "official release" model. Kevin never made any more than that.

Did anyone other than Kevin build one?

#11308 3 years ago

Okay, who deleted all the hilarious game titles that used to be linked to this topic?

#11309 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Please consider choking on a bag of d***s.

Lovely moderation standards.

-8
#11310 3 years ago
Quoted from TheZohan:

Okay, who deleted all the hilarious game titles that used to be linked to this topic?

The Pinside Staff deleted them. The only game that should be linked to this thread is the Predator game. All others will be considered off topic and deleted.

Please do not abuse this function.

Thanks.

Pinside Staff

#11311 3 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

The only game that should be linked to this thread is the Predator game. All others will be considered off topic and deleted.

Please do not abuse this function.

Does that apply to all threads, or just this one?

#11312 3 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Does that apply to all threads, or just this one?

Please do not abuse the function in any thread. Only link games that are relevant to the discussion.

Thanks.

Marcus

#11313 3 years ago

There's more to it than that, more than just running some wires. Looking at Tim's machine when I had the chance and took some pictures, there are three driver boards under the playfield. The first one is a lamp matrix which obviously drives all the CPU control lamps. Without a lamp matrix chart, wiring that would just be guessing.

Same thing with the switch matrix too. Again without some sort of documentation or switch matrix chart you don't really know where all the switches go. But the switches connect to the proc board so at least there isn't another board involved. There would be also 16 direct switches too. These would include things like slam tilt, tilt, flipper buttons, start button, diagnostics enter, diagnostics exit, diagnostic menu movement, etc.

The solenoids are driven by a master 16 driver board. But there's a second 16 driver board for stuff like flashers, UV lights, RGB lights, general illumination, laser pointer, and Shaker motor.

Again without documentation you're just guessing where things go and how it's wired. And how the software interacts with these things. Assuming you have the software you could look at the source code and figure all these things out. But now you've added another layer of complexity to the whole process.

There's also a number of options for the proc boards, which is unclear how those need to be set. I guess again this would depend on how the software talks with the proc boards. None of the stuff is written down anywhere or by anybody, so it's all just guesswork. Some information can be garnered from the limited pictures that are out there. But it would be difficult to figure out, and again, time consuming.

Also from what I saw on the Tim machine, the software is not finished. For instance the diagnostics didn't work. Also there was no lamp attract mode. There was no ball search if a ball got stuck. There were a lot of little things that I would consider necessary if you were going to put a pinball out for people to play. The software definitely needed more work.

Any problem can be solved. If you're willing to invest the time, energy, money. But not only do you have to be a hardware expert but you also have to be a software expert too. for most people this is all outside their level of experiences. Also the comments above are clearly from somebody that's never tried to take on a task like this. It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback but when you actually hunker down and try and make yourself a pinball machine, you'll see what John Pop said is actually quite accurate... It is hard to make pinball machines.

In addition there's actually another level of complexity with the predator machine. I own a bpinbot v2 and a cactus canyon continued, which are both Proc systems. So I can see how the hardware is implemented. with those machines, they have an advantage over predator, in that they have a transformer and a driver board all already implemented in the system.

Predator does not have these things. Which means you have to manage all the power coming from the wall and ending up to the levels and amperage that you need to run the system. Any proc system is going to need 5 V, 12 V, 18 V for the lamp matrix, 6 V for the G.I., 50 V for the coils. In addition, predator uses a standard dotmatrix display. Which means you need to generate all the negative high voltage to run that display. So that's yet another power supply. There is a lot of power that needs to come in to this game, because there is no central transformer and no driver board, like say a WPC system would have. This all just adds to the complexity of the system. It makes it a lot more complicated than say bride of pin bot 2.0 or cactus canyon continued.

#11315 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

As told there's only two kevin made predators: The #1 black prototype, and the #2 tim "official release" model. Kevin never made any more than that.

Quoted from SirScott:

Did anyone other than Kevin build one?

Quoted from cfh:

It is hard to make pinball machines.

So, is that a "no" then?

#11316 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

There's more to it than that, more than just running some wires.

If you have the code, which ultimately you need, the predator.yaml config file would give you all the details on the solenoids, matrices and other wiring requirements. Settings on the boards would be easily determined based on that config and the p-roc docs.

Quoted from cfh:

Also from what I saw on the Tim machine, the software is not finished. For instance the diagnostics didn't work. Also there was no lamp attract mode. There was no ball search if a ball got stuck.

Ball search is a built in feature of the pyprocgame framework, so it may have just be disabled. I know I turn it off when working on a machine, since having the ball search fire when you are working on stuff is beyond annoying. The service mode is also a built in feature, but the original one is pretty vanilla, and I know Kevin did not upgrade it. Not sure why it would not be accessible other then if he did not map the buttons in the service door correctly. Very likely he was using the keyboard on the laptop he was running the game on to handle service stuff and therefore never mapped the buttons.

As far as software not being finished, well that is a completely different subject and not related to the complexity of the machine. In addition to myself, I could name a half dozen guys who could easily jump in and work through that, not that they would be willing to, given the situation.

Quoted from cfh:

Also the comments above are clearly from somebody that's never tried to take on a task like this.

You are wrong about that. Feel free to stop by the P-roc booth at expo this year, and I'll be happy to prove it to you.

Not saying it is easy to make a pinball machine, making pinball is hard, but Predator is not an 'extremely complex' machine, and you were not talking about creating a game from scratch, you were talking about building a predator.

#11317 3 years ago
Quoted from PaulCoff:

What happened to the Duck Hunt Pin?

I was wondering this as well. Did that game belong to Aaron or Kevin?

#11319 3 years ago

I could build one from scratch in under two weeks with all the parts in hand. It is simple in comparison to most other Proc games and childs play in comparison to WOOLY which I assembled in a week with Scott and another owner.

it is silly to say it is complex, esp coming from Clay.
there were 4 fully functional games at minumum. the timeline and documented differences of the builds are all out there. i obviously followed the game closely and know most of the differences between the four populated playfields (unsure of how many cabs but know of three that went to shows and of course we all know 10 production cabs were built)

once I get eyes on Clays I shouldbe able to tell exactly which build he has.

#11320 3 years ago

Milton You are wrong. There are only two Kevin made predators. The black number one and Tim's number two that's it

#11321 3 years ago

Perhaps parts from early versions Hilton is talking about were re-used on updated versions as it evolved during development/show touring.

#11322 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Milton You are wrong. There are only two Kevin made predators. The black number one and Tim's number two that's it

So with your story of only 2 in existence and your stated plan to build one. Why not tell and show us all of your stockpile of parts? Show us what you have and what you need. Prove me wrong and I will appologize. i will also help you to get one built if you are going to share it with the public. I have more knowledge of the game than most and the skillset to get it built better than Kevin ever did.

#11323 3 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Perhaps parts from early versions Hilton is talking about were re-used on updated versions as it evolved during development/show touring.

Some parts were borrowed from previous builds as new prototypes were refined. None of those parts are tough to acquire. There were multiple ramp pulls so those are not a limit. the ramps are also very easy to remake, esp if you have a set to go off.

#11324 3 years ago

No that's not correct. There are only two Kevin made predators. The black predator has been documented all over with YouTube videos etc. And I've seen Tim's number two and I have pictures of it. So there's that. If there's more than this, let's see pictures. Let's see proof. Yeah that's what I thought, milton you have none. You can wish all you want but that doesn't make it happen or true

23
#11325 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

There are only two Kevin made predators.

How many Predators are in existence that aren't "Kevin made"?

#11326 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Predator does not have these things. Which means you have to manage all the power coming from the wall and ending up to the levels and amperage that you need to run the system. Any proc system is going to need 5 V, 12 V, 18 V for the lamp matrix, 6 V for the G.I., 50 V for the coils. In addition, predator uses a standard dotmatrix display. Which means you need to generate all the negative high voltage to run that display. So that's yet another power supply. There is a lot of power that needs to come in to this game, because there is no central transformer and no driver board, like say a WPC system would have. This all just adds to the complexity of the system. It makes it a lot more complicated than say bride of pin bot 2.0 or cactus canyon continued.

Forgot to address this, plenty of projects have resolved this, and in a variety of ways. Typically by using 2 or 3 power supplies. I use 2 one with 5 and 12 and one with 24 and 70. I don't have any photos of my set up, but you can look at https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/spaceballs-the-pin/page/7#post-2680723 now this has a lot of extra bells and whistles, but the bottom line, it is pretty easy to just go order the needed power supplies.

#11327 3 years ago

(Edit) Never mind.

#11328 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

(Edit) Never mind.

You had a point Kim. I appreciate the sentiment.

#11329 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Because I'm not going to stop beating the horse about the existing games or Kevin, that's why. My position really isn't this hard to understand man.

Well, it's fitting I guess... Given it's that kind of wishful thinking that started the mess.

#11330 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

No that's not correct. There are only two Kevin made predators. The black predator has been documented all over with YouTube videos etc. And I've seen Tim's number two and I have pictures of it. So there's that. If there's more than this, let's see pictures. Let's see proof. Yeah that's what I thought, milton you have none. You can wish all you want but that doesn't make it happen or true

Pretty much what I figured from you Clay. You don't have anything but a compete game to show and a handful of parts.

I have LOTS of documentation of all the iterations that were at shows. If you think I am going to point out the diferences so you can go doctor your games to make them appear like they are more self built, then you are pretty silly.

I really hope you drop this lie and come to your senses on when you need to tell the truth. I and others can understand your desire to hide it away. It is normal for you to feel guilt about what you have done and ownership of the games. eVen if you produce a game with parts you claim to have assembled on your own you will forever be know as the guy paying up for predator 'parts' and giving funds when so many others were screwed in this whole ordeal.

-5
#11331 3 years ago

For the hundredth time Kevin only made two predators. The black Proto #1, and Tim's number two. There are not any others. There is a white wood play field somewhere out there, but it existed in the same black cabinet that has a production playfield in it now. A total of 10 production playfields and plastic sets were made. Kevin does not have any of them anymore. So there are people out there with playfields that could possibly make their own version of the predator, up to eight of them. This is yet to be seen though. But at some point I'm sure it will happen. I don't expect all eight to be made, but it is possible.

But I'm done here. Many are not interested in hearing anything about what's really going on, you're only interested in carrying pitchforks and perpetuating lies and other sorts of BS. Wow, because it doesn't seem any different than what you accuse Kevin of doing.

To the make matters worse, the moderators here aren't helping at all either. If anybody has a difference of opinion then the mob who is caring pitchforks, you guys thrown them out. Of course I'm talking about Tim. He provided some insight, which of course was different than what other people are saying, but it was very relevant and was not mean-spirited in any way.

I run into Kevin now and then as his lawyer is just a few miles from where I live, and Kevin likes to go to arcade type hang outs that I also visit. So I get some different insight and different points of view on what's happening. But I'm frankly just not interested in sharing them here anymore. Many seem more interested in twisting lies and talking crap then you are about finding out what is really true.

You can have a poison pill and swallow it, but that doesn't mean it's going to hurt Kevin. It just means you're going to hurt yourself. All this ill will towards Kevin, though understandable to a point, is not good for anyone, especially yourselves. Frankly I think many are more mad at themsves then Kevin. But I am no longer interested in participating in this therapy session here. Especially since many are not interested in facts, only interested in carrying pitchforks. I thought this would be a good place to discuss things, but apparently that's just not the case.

#11332 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

How many Predators are in existence that aren't "Kevin made"?

What's the definition of "IS"?

34
#11333 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

If anybody has a difference of opinion then the mob who is caring pitchforks, you guys thrown them out. Of course I'm talking about Tim.

He wasn't booted for difference of opinion. He was booted because he's on his, like, EIGHTH attempt at a username.

CraZ4Pin
RealityCheck
OldPinster
Pinchili
PinRebel
HappyDayz
Chyna
...and a few others I'm probably missing. (Hey, I'm doing this from memory. Sorry!)

Many of the previous ones were flat-out trolls, and the "throw out" had nothing to do with a difference of opinion based on Predator. And, after we had to show him a door for the 8th time...he jumped right back and tried to create a couple more duplicate accounts.

I can't tell you how many hours I tried to work with the fellow so that he could stay on the site. When it came down to it, he lied over, and over, and over again...and told us that he wouldn't follow any of our requests. What exactly are we supposed to do??

Us: "Hey, in order to stay on the site, please do (insert request here)"
Him: "No way. I F***ing hate you guys. I'll never do anything you ask."
Us: "Well, we tried. I guess there's nothing we can do now!"

Yeah. That doesn't work...for anyone on the site. It's not because we're evil overlords, either.

In any case, it's a big no-no for me to talk about behind-the-scenes stuff like this, but the misinformation keeps whipping up all of this weird hostility. I'd be happy to continue the discussion in a mod-feedback or direct PM with anyone that is concerned...but would rather keep this Predator thread from turning into a "Let's grab a pitchfork and go after those filthy mods."

Pete

#11334 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

To the make matters worse, the moderators here aren't helping at all either. If anybody has a difference of opinion then the mob who is caring pitchforks, you guys thrown them out. Of course I'm talking about Tim. He provided some insight, which of course was different than what other people are saying, but it was very relevant and was not mean-spirited in any way.

I'm pretty sure he got the boot for using a duplicate account which violates pinside rules, not for his comments in this thread.

edit: got beat to the punch by a few seconds

#11335 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:So there are people out there with playfields

And are you one of them? I'm sure many here are interested to know how these got distributed.

Quoted from cfh:

the moderators here aren't helping at all either . . . Of course I'm talking about Tim.

Who was hiding who he was and being dishonest about his connection to Kevin and predator? But somehow the moderators are at fault?

#11336 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

it doesn't seem any different than what you accuse Kevin of doing.

There's still the little matter of several hundred grand disappearing. Don't think anyone in this thread can take ownership of that.

"at least" in jpop's case, the guy was a moron, and spent all the money... but we all have a good idea that it's gone for good because it's clear where it went, and there is none left to make anyone a pinball machine. In Predator's case it's a huge mystery.

#11337 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

. If anybody has a difference of opinion then the mob who is caring pitchforks, you guys thrown them out. Of course I'm talking about Tim. He provided some insight, which of course was different than what other people are saying, but it was very relevant and was not mean-spirited in any way.

Minus that whole lying who he was, hiding, lying about who he was and who he knew, and onward. Truly valuable and credible insight.... *smackshead*

#11338 3 years ago

Just for the sake of clarification... the guy making the duplicate accounts is (allegedly) Tim Fife?

Late to the party. Been watching the situation unfold on the sidelines. Here's hoping that things will work out in favor of Skit-B's customers, but at this point I think all everyone can really do is wait and see what the outcome will be...

#11339 3 years ago

Let's bring the discussion back to Skit-B and Predator.

Both parties, Whysnow and cfh, have made claims that contradict each other. This thread is not the place for a 20 page "yes you do", "no I don't" discussion between Whysnow & cfh.

Neither side is likely to agree with the other, so it is now time to take the discussion to PM.

Any additional discussion regarding the accusation that cfh has Predator parts/machines without hard proof is no longer on topic for this thread.

If someone has hard proof, please feel free to open a moderator feedback and provide the evidence. Otherwise, the mod team will consider this accusation a "broken record" and will moderate as such.

If anyone wants to discuss this decision with the entire moderator team, please open a moderator feedback thread.

Thanks.

Marcus

#11340 3 years ago

But most of all remember...

Quoted from Xerico:

This is not a Skit-B bash thread.

#11341 3 years ago

Based upon this recent chatter, is it a safe bet that Kevin, his wife and mother are becoming uncomfortable?

#11342 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

How many Predators are in existence that aren't "Kevin made"?

0

#11343 3 years ago

For now, it has been clearly indicated earlier in this thread that there are a half dozen playfields floating around.

21
#11344 3 years ago

I say we steal the whole project back from Kevin.

Let's clone the harddrive, scan and reproduce the playfield, have Freeplay40 make nice ramps in green, make a nail board to build the harnesses, and have a few build parties across the globe.

It's the most simple of games to assemble, any sys11 is probably harder.

Let's quit acting like victims, quit throwing more good money after bad, and take the ultimate revenge.

i-spit-cover_(resized).jpg

#11345 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

But most of all remember...

If you are going to quote me, then quote the entire paragraph. Don't cherry pick in an attempt to snidely get a point across. Much has changed since I wrote the opening post. Kevin had not been revealed to be the criminal and fraudster that he became. Skit-B had not yet proven to be completely untrustworthy.

Like any thread that lasts for thousands of posts, this thread evolved. So that I am clear, bash Skit-B and Kevin Kulek all you want. Just keep it within the site rules and keep it civil. No threats of violence against Kevin or any members of his family or collection of friends. No trouble making for the sake of causing trouble, like cherry picking the first sentence of a paragraph in the opening post.

Here is the entire paragraph. With the exception about bashing Skit-B, the rest stands.

Quoted from Xerico:

This is not a Skit-B bash thread. While some may express an opinion contrary to the majority, each person in this thread is responsible for maintaining civility with those that oppose. If anyone resorts to name calling, insults or any other offense that is intended to incite others, then be prepared for a thread boot. As long as there is polite discourse, then this thread will remain open.

Marcus

#11346 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

For now, it has been clearly indicated earlier in this thread that there are a half dozen playfields floating around.

Correct.

-5
#11347 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

I run into Kevin now and then as his lawyer is just a few miles from where I live, and Kevin likes to go to arcade type hang outs that I also visit. So I get some different insight and different points of view on what's happening.

Different point of view? This isn't a debate about religion or politics. This is a situation with hard facts. What other point of view matters other than "People paid for a product on false pretense and haven't received a refund".

That's.
All.
That.
Matters.

Quoted from cfh:

But I'm frankly just not interested in sharing them here anymore.

That's The Clay Way....not sharing. Just like you packed up your guides and went home....you're a selfish baby, Clay. Good riddance. Have fun hanging out with your scumbag buddy. Birds of a feather....

#11348 3 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

If you are going to quote me, then quote the entire paragraph. Don't cherry pick in an attempt to snidely get a point across. Much has changed since I wrote the opening post

Indeed. Pardon me. Sorry.

-1
#11349 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

For the hundredth time Kevin only made two predators. The black Proto #1, and Tim's number two. There are not any others. There is a white wood play field somewhere out there, but it existed in the same black cabinet that has a production playfield in it now. A total of 10 production playfields and plastic sets were made. Kevin does not have any of them anymore. So there are people out there with playfields that could possibly make their own version of the predator, up to eight of them. This is yet to be seen though. But at some point I'm sure it will happen. I don't expect all eight to be made, but it is possible.
But I'm done here. Many are not interested in hearing anything about what's really going on, you're only interested in carrying pitchforks and perpetuating lies and other sorts of BS. Wow, because it doesn't seem any different than what you accuse Kevin of doing.
To the make matters worse, the moderators here aren't helping at all either. If anybody has a difference of opinion then the mob who is caring pitchforks, you guys thrown them out. Of course I'm talking about Tim. He provided some insight, which of course was different than what other people are saying, but it was very relevant and was not mean-spirited in any way.
I run into Kevin now and then as his lawyer is just a few miles from where I live, and Kevin likes to go to arcade type hang outs that I also visit. So I get some different insight and different points of view on what's happening. But I'm frankly just not interested in sharing them here anymore. Many seem more interested in twisting lies and talking crap then you are about finding out what is really true.
You can have a poison pill and swallow it, but that doesn't mean it's going to hurt Kevin. It just means you're going to hurt yourself. All this ill will towards Kevin, though understandable to a point, is not good for anyone, especially yourselves. Frankly I think many are more mad at themsves then Kevin. But I am no longer interested in participating in this therapy session here. Especially since many are not interested in facts, only interested in carrying pitchforks. I thought this would be a good place to discuss things, but apparently that's just not the case.

May be out place, but i have been following this thread from the sideline, and.... thread eject for critisizing pinside staff? Is not critic a tool for maybe improving something or not? ☺

#11350 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

There's still the little matter of several hundred grand disappearing. Don't think anyone in this thread can take ownership of that.
"at least" in jpop's case, the guy was a moron, and spent all the money... but we all have a good idea that it's gone for good because it's clear where it went, and there is none left to make anyone a pinball machine. In Predator's case it's a huge mystery.

No mystery to me. Gambling.

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