Quoted from vid1900:

I guess you have never seen any game where it goes into ball search?
It happens even on brand new Sterns.

Same thing used to happen on a bunch of games like F-14.
Takes about 2 minutes to adjust.

The final ramps worked fine AFAICT.

If a game is ever going to break, it will be at an expo so you can be embarrassed. Low line voltages, super hot environment, constant 4 day play. An excellent test of your maintenance skills - just like the old 24 hour arcade days.
Every mechanical part on the playfield was a Williams design, easy to service.

Quoted from sammiesguys:

I'm well aware now that the project was doomed to fail, but these posts come across as really petty. We know your opinion of the project and the game. That's been made clear a number of times. I'm not sure why repeatedly stating it is helpful to the current situation.
But it is nice to know that in addition to the people who lost their money, you're bitter as well. Misery loves company.

You won't have to worry about that. I was looking forward to seeing your next game and possibly being a customer. Not anymore.
I guess I just expected better from someone who is so prominent and respected in the pinball community. I was wrong.

Quoted from Nibbles:

So, if you had had money in this and had gotten ripped off by Kevin, you still would maintain that same sentiment? Especially, when the person makes multiple posts, in numerous threads, about how the game that you put money into 'sucked ass but at least they brought it to shows' and never would have 'made it' no matter what?
That's some serious Monday morning quarterbacking, especially posting it in a thread where everyone is still trying to get any portion of their money back. Sorry I didn't invest in your company, but f*(k off with the "I knew it all along" attitude that only came out after the proverbial shit hit the fan.

Quoted from ccotenj:

it's unlikely that he could have ever acquired the license up front... they were self admitted kids in a basement, with zero money, zero plan, zero business structure, zero production experience, zero zero zero... you think fox was going to license their ip to them?

Quoted from Crash:

Yeah except for the honest apology and transparency.

Quoted from fosaisu:

Did they steal money from their subscribers?

Quoted from NinJaBooT:

I wish I could disagree with this but if nothing has happened almost a year later I have to agree that nothing will. There definitely isn't that much money left. The only one benefiting from this would be Keith. I hope Kevin goes down in flames but if it hasn't happened yet then I dont foresee him ever going down in flames over this. I do think he will continue make stupid, dumb witted life choices that will haunt him the rest of his life but as for us getting money back..........that shipped sailed.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

Pretty nuts that your average bank robber doesn't get away with 1/20th the amount of cash that K-Douche made off with and yet there is no crime here??... I don't get it!

Quoted from labnip:

Maybe we could call it a "trade" instead of "give" ?
Trade $ for 100% functioning machine?

Quoted from Trekie:

I want to hear him spew his BS under oath and under cross examination.

Quoted from labnip:

It evidences crimes against the 242th amendment... Thou shall not douchebag

Quoted from wizard1974:

Hi guys, bloody hell there are shed loads of replies since I last looked and reckon it would take me a year to plow through all of them. I was one of the unlucky buggers to get royaly shafted by Kevin, I paid in full like a twat
Anyway I know there was some bloke who was acting legally to try and reclaim some cash back on this group, but to me that's just pointless going after someone who hasn't got it or Even if he had he is gonna go bankrupt and we still don't get our cash back . Well that's how it works in the uk. Saying that I would have knocked on his door if he lived in the uk that's for sure.
As I have resigned myself to never seeing any of my dosh again , I just wondered has everyone else given up or has anyone had any luck?
Cheers

Quoted from rosh:

first off, you are not going to help your cause if you show up at his door and assault him. Setting aside the "fist", there is still not much you can accomplish by even showing up at his door, other then maybe the satisfaction of yelling out him. Not like he is going to hand you over your cash. I can see plenty of downsides to showing up, since it would seem that the possibility of the conversation degrading to the point where anger takes over seems pretty high.

Quoted from vid1900:

Showing up at the door of some whitetrash person's house is a great way to get shot in the face.

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

If you were going to do something like that, it would be a critical error to announce it on a public message board where it could be held over your head as pre-meditated.
Get in it for the long game.

Quoted from fosaisu:

Are you volunteering?

Quoted from cfh:

right. but i think it's more like when you file in one court and it gets knocked down to a different court, you have to re-file and all the fees associated with that have to be paid again. Also kevin's lawyer can ask the court to get paid by the plaintiff instead of Kevin (so i hear, that would certainly be interesting.) the court's time was probably pretty minimal. but the entire time line gets stretched because everything has to start over. it's like running a race and everyone is pushed back to the starting line. And the biggest cost of re-filing is the lawyer's time. all the paper work has to be re-done and put through again. i don't know too many lawyers, but most are like $100/hr and up. That's not public money, that's clients' money whom is paying that bill.
I know Keith is a pinball guy and that's probably why he took this on, merging his hobby with his profession. that's cool. but i don't believe this type of law is his mainstream, so some mistakes may have been made in the original filing. hence the paperwork/time line re-start thing in a different court. there certainly may be different takes on that, but from looking at the documents and what has happened, that's seems very likely.

Quoted from Methos:

The problem is that IRS agents are stretched pretty thin nowadays thanks to recent medical laws and most of the activity is on offshore accounts and businesses to shelter income. As sad as it sounds, Kevin might not be a big enough fish.

Quoted from Magic_Mike:

What's with the thumbs down?
Has evidence been revealed that this man's sole intention was to defraud pinball collectors and nothing more?
Just a simple question.
I don't have time to go through 200+ pages of bitching and assumptions.

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

And it has come around again to threats of physical violence.

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I make it sound like we live in a civilized society.
Physical assault is illegal. Condoning or encouraging it is against Pinside rules and has been moderated in this thread previously.

Quoted from Whysnow:

He cares because happydayz is Tim Fife whom currently is in possession of predator #2.
He is friends with SkitB and also seems to be directly concerned about the machine he has in his possession.

Quoted from HappyDayz:

My sole reason for getting my hands on the game was to look at the game code and how they solved several other issues (like boot-up sequence and powering on) for my own P-ROC project. That was it. No other grand conspiracy.

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Joking about causing physical harm, leaving him and his kids homeless, sending him to PMITA prison, making "the pain last longer," etc., hasn't been, isn't and never will be funny, or even justified. Makes me feel dirty just reading that crap.
Purveyors of "parking lot justice" would deserve prison more than the person to whom the "justice" was applied. And they would be more likely to get it! Again, civilized society.
Even hoping he lies to the bankruptcy court and does time for perjury is misplaced.
He messed up, panicked like a cornered rat, lied, owes you money. Get your money back if you can, fine. That ought to be the extent of it.
Don't dishonor yourselves over his dishonorable deed.

Quoted from c508:

I'm tracking the docket on PACER. Will be eager to see if there is an update tomorrow AM (usually takes 24 hours) and share the news unless one of the people who is already in the know beats me to it.

Quoted from Razorbak86:

Kevin Kulek has already filed for bankruptcy, so he is the debtor in the bankruptcy case. There is a Trustee appointed in the bankruptcy case (Randall Frank), and he is working on behalf of the creditors of the estate (e.g., unpaid vendors, customers who paid deposits but never received pinball machines). The bankruptcy filing was a voluntary Chapter 7 petition, which (for honest debtors) is typically a straight liquidation that wipes out all debts and provides the debtor with a "fresh start" post-bankrutpcy. Fortunately for many people here in this thread, not all debts can be discharged in bankruptcy. One specific example of a non-dischargeable debt is one obtained by false pretenses, false representations, or fraud.
In the bankruptcy court filing posted above, the Trustee petitioned the judge to name Keith Nathanson (KeithinMI here on Pinside) as Special Litigation Counsel to pursue causes of action that might provide a recovery to the creditors of the estate. The filing mentions a $30,000 transfer allegedly used by Kevin to pay for real estate (his residence), where the property was allegedly titled in his wife's name to avoid creditor claims.
The Trustee's filing occurred two weeks ago, and Keith's comments yesterday imply that the judge was either about to rule, or has already ruled, in the Trustee's favor, naming Keith as Special Litigation Counsel working for the Trustee on behalf of the estate. This could greatly bolster the Trustee's ability to recover proceeds for creditors, and that could be bad news for Kevin's hope for a debt-free, "fresh start" post-bankruptcy (i.e., "Winter is here, John Snow.").
PS - I'm not a lawyer, but I have logged thousands of billable hours in bankruptcy cases over the last two decades working as a financial advisor for financially distressed businesses. And I *never* stay in a Holday Inn Express!

Quoted from KeithinMI:

The following are a few examples of criminal violations of federal law:
1. Bankruptcy Fraud
2. Income Tax Evasion
3. Lying to a federal agent during an investigation
4. Obstructing a federal investigation
5. Obstruction of justice
6. RICO (racketeering)
7. Conspiracy
8. Wire/Mail Fraud

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality. I know, I know, he brought it on himself. But he ain't exactly Bernie Madoff.
I hope that losing some discretionary income money on non-delivered toys is the worst thing that ever happens to all you victims. I know, I know, a few people prepaid multiple entire games... but they hoped to make a killing, and that was a huge risk. One shouldn't risk more than one can afford to lose, and pinball is not an investment vehicle.
If this comment brings on any thumbs downs, I'd like to hear what exactly I said that you "don't agree" with! It all seems unassailable to me.

Quoted from TigerLaw:

Not a terrible theme idea, sadly.

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Wow, 22 so far! Touched a nerve!
So which thing do we disagree with?
What, the innocent kids don't matter? He didn't bring it on himself? He was a Bernie Madoff, screwing thousands of investors out of their entire retirement funds? I should hope worse things happen than losing toy money? It wasn't a huge risk to give hat boy tens of thousands? They didn't hope to make a killing? One should risk more than they can afford to lose? Pinball is an investment vehicle?
See, none of it can be legitimately disagreed with. Y'all are misusing the thumbs down. It's not for expressing hurt feelings.
This is what I get for stating obvious things and feeling sorry for his kids. I am not blaming the victims. I certainly don't condone his actions. The guy was an idiot from start to finish. He should have started paying a lawyer a lot sooner, and listened to their advice. As soon as the intellectual property problem reared its ugly head, he should have cancelled the whole project and returned what money he could, including the comically inept hiding of money in the house in his wife's name.
Looking at those latest court docs, I see prison in his future after all. And he deserves it. It's just that I find the whole thing sad.

Quoted from Russo121:

Let him drag it out. The longer it takes, the more damage he's doing to his health. Like a cancerous tumor gnawing away. This is what dishonesty, lies and thievery will bring you.
Still going to chase him for what he owes me. However long it takes because i can still sleep at night.

Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

So when will the movie be released "The wolf of pinball?"
Need to figure out who would play the lead role!

Quoted from Firebaall:

Start adding Kevin or his wife's friends on an alt Facebook account. I'm sure more than a few would know where the other machines are. A bit of cash would likely get you photos and addresses of where the machines are.
A Facebook account with a picture of somebody covered with mud, leaning up against a lifted pickup truck, and missing some teeth is all the camouflage you'd need.

Quoted from Pintucky:

I don't want to be a devil's advocate either (by the way, this is the proper way of using the phrase), but I think it is kind of 'bad form' to not list where YOU are from next to your avatar. This is one of my pet peeves. I think everyone on Pinside should at least have to put the State and Country in which they live. It gives a better 'feeling' of knowing who you are talking with. That little bit of info can surely not lead to problems.
In your case with your comments, I think there is a problem with syntax and it leads me to think you don't live in the USA. Perhaps the Netherlands, because of "Dutch Tommy" ??? When I read your message and plug it into American English it sounds offensive. When I read it thinking this is someone from another country writing, I try to juggle it in my mind a little better and figure out the words were not so harsh after all.
My point . . . I would not be writing this had I known you live outside of the USA. Had someone in America written it, I would have had a clearer opinion of it. The 'strength' of your message leaves me wondering . . .
Now, don't take offense. I admire you for being able to read and write another language (if that is the case). You are WAY ahead of me in that game! But no matter how good you are in a language not your own, you would be surprised as to the 'tone' your sentences have simply because you are not a native speaker.
Now . . . wherever you are . . . go in peace.

Quoted from Pintucky:

NOPE! Not condescending. Just explaining the nuances of reading things from people of various backgrounds.
Now, where are YOU located?!
I know where you are from by your condescending post . . .

Quoted from chuckwurt:

What is Nemo?

Quoted from o-din:

http://www.pinballnews.com/news/nemo/index.html

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I purposely avoided using the word "customers" and I hope the expected BBB-like appreciation of your Nemos assuages the Predator wounds to at least some extent.

Quoted from MrBally:

. You'll also be able to look at a person, listen to them talk and size up the ones who are lying thieves that shouldn't be trusted with your money. Exactly how I did at a certain seminar.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Moderator's comment:
Ok folks, let's get off the firearms topic since it's unrelated here and can quickly detour into politics.

Quoted from CentiZen:

Trust me man, I am just as skeptical as you are - she isn't on our level of being a "pinball person" but she knows her way around a cab and has been playing them longer than I have. When I pressed her for more details though it sounded like she might have gotten it confused with Last Action Hero.
I've shot an email off to the hotel she saw it at (Sun City Mantra Hotel in Gold Coast) just to see if they can take a picture of the machine.

Quoted from KeithinMI:

Someone please get me a photo of this, and the exact location.

Quoted from KeithinMI:

Someone please get me a photo of this, and the exact location.

Quoted from Pinpast:

Seemingly, they are smart enough to hide over $500,000 of income from the federal government.
And then enjoy entitlement payments from the government for lack of income.
All of which Keith discovered during a brief interview with Amanda.

Quoted from flynnibus:

So their 'game' opens an interesting twist..
Normally a chapter7 liquidation wouldn't be able to force someone out of their home, or seize things that would make it impractical to live/work. But here Amanda isn't the one in Chapter7.. she's facing the clawback. Kevin has already claimed he doesn't own the house, etc.. trying to make himself look broke. But in doing so, he may have moved important stuff out from being exempt from Chap7.
Can a clawback force someone out of their primary home? It seems if it were the debtor, they could keep a 'portion of equity'.. but we're talking a 25k home, not 250k. What do you think razorbak86 ? Will the trustee be able to liquidate the house since it's her primary home and not some extravagant thing?

Quoted from CNKay:

Ok a couple real questions now.
Are all the prototypes (sample games) accounted for?
After seeing MG and the supposed value of these rare items seems like Preditor machine could easily fetch a pretty penny if auctioned correctly. That game seemed to have code and actually be a real pin.
And seeing how long this process takes how many years of courts and misery can you watch before you start feeling sorry for them and the children. I know you all want justice, and the embarrassment and hassle of getting pulled in by Marshalls is some sweet revenge. but,.
I am just wondering if anything less than jail will even satisfy ?
Some people can look at it like it's only money and not all that much in the grand scheme of things. At least the amount back.
Is it irregardless and you just want him to lay in the bed he made himself?
I did have a nice Easter day that's all I know.

Quoted from fosaisu:

Keith is the trustee's lawyer. Kevin is your debtor/con man.

Quoted from Pinballs:

Kevin is receiving the justice he deserves. This is a classic example of hoisted by your own petard. Kevin initiated the bankruptcy case, but remarkably has not cooperated with his own case, and has proven himself to be incompetent, criminal and really really stupid. Ditto his family. Allegedly, obviously
Seeing him and his wife humiliated and shown to be extremely dumb-ass criminals in public, in front of the global pinball community, is a fantastic example of seeing justice to be done. Not only will we likely get some money back thanks to the amazing Keith, literally the Lamborghini of attorneys, but following this case it seems likely a criminal case will occur, and Kevin will then go to prison or at least be fined to destitution. I look forward to seeing this, because using our money direct from the paypal & business accounts to buy an RV, laptops, wife's photographic equipment, pay off mortgage, buy new boiler etc etc is truly unbelievable and despicable.
Kevin is (allegedly) utter, utter scum, and I will be delighted when he gets what he deserves. Let due legal process slowly and surely annihilate him. More broadly, I hope this case will be a salutary lesson for any wannabe scammers out there! We will get you, and it will destroy your life. This case was always a point of principle for me, regardless of whether I get my $4,500.00 back. Ditto for Jpop.

Quoted from fosaisu:

Kind of -- JPop "delivered" (with what amounted to divine intervention from AP) ~20 Magic Girls out of the several hundred(?) games he took money on. He has no apparent means or plan to satisfy the many remaining orders. This is obviously huge for the Magic Girl customers, but I'm not sure it makes a huge difference morally or legally.
I would suspect the bigger issues will be how JPop handled the funds and how he handles himself in court -- it would be hard to top Kevin in the self-inflicted wounds department.

Quoted from Seraph:

Ya missed one.

Quoted from DCFAN:

https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/richer-people-want-fewer-children/?_r=0

Quoted from Mbecker:

Amazing to me how many times the whole house thing had to be explained to her -- seems pretty obvious from the get-go, if the house was in fact purchased with pred money then it's not hers and can be taken back. No mortgage loans fix this, nor does the fact that they live in it with 5 kids.
Hard to tell about the photo equip. Seems partially legit but she was also kind of fighting the release of information, repeatedly saying Keith would find nothing. If there's nothing to hide, why bother saying this and fighting it? Just hand over the damn records

Quoted from benheck:

$1900/cab seems a bit high but it's not far from the ballpark. They're a lot more expensive than people realize... that armor and metal adds up fast.
It goes back to the problem that even if Kevin had the legal right to make these he would have run out of money looooooong before finishing them all.
At which point he would have been at least a honest failed business like Jpop, instead of the outright fraud he is.

Quoted from benheck:

Well Kevin saves a cool 30% right off the top by not paying taxes, so I'm going to go with "yes".

Quoted from TOK:

The JPop thread is pretty ponderous now, but wasn't there a point where he tried to sell a game after it was already public knowledge the business was in trouble? Taking an order as if nothing is wrong shows a clear intent to defraud and not just a lack of business acumen.

Quoted from MrBally:

What is wrong with the word naggers?

Quoted from Concretehardt:

Ok so getting back on topic, the word rhymes with hammer...

Quoted from edcianci:

this list I got was created by one of us - it wasn't created by kevin - it was created right after things went south - I should have read the email first - anyway keith I'm sure you have it - if you need it just let me know - again sorry for the confusion. thanks ed

Quoted from investingdad:

Ouch.
If the house is taken, this is a clear example of how the kids are forced to endure the hardship of poor, and fraudulent, actions of the parents.
I'm sure blame will be placed at the feet of the creditors, rather than on the faces in the mirror that thought they could keep money that wasn't theirs to keep.
The ironic thing is, had he set up a proper business entity and paid himself a salary, filed taxes accordingly, etc...the bankruptcy would probably hold water and a lot of this wouldn't be happening.
At least, I assume that's the case.

Quoted from DeeGor:

Evil Keith

Quoted from flynnibus:

"Doxxing"
You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means
---
I can't believe the judge lets these people rant and rant and rant. When will he say "mamm, what does any of this have to do with the motion in front of us?"

Quoted from flynnibus:

It's one in the same.. the latter enables the former. The point being is its revokable - so no FB isn't hording and reselling all your images for perpetuity. Instead, FB is using your content (and all the content people publish) in the services, ads, pages, and views it's serving to both it's userbase and in services it offers to 3rd parties to present on their pages. When you remove your content from FB's engine... it will no longer be licensable to use in those other services and feeds. The catch is, the content can be replicated (aka shared) by other people.. because there it is now part of their profile.. making it difficult to really fully remove content. But again, using all the content Facebook has current access to for use in facebook, in facebook ads, and facebook feeds... is not the same as 'facebook owning everything you upload' and having the ability to resell it for perpetual use.
TL:DR - Facebook uses your content in it's service and feeds - not to repackage and sell as standalone content.

Quoted from desertT1:

This is what I think as well. I also have to wonder though, what's the attraction to land that floods every year? It's not suitable for any sort of permanent structure. Is it a buffer from your neighbor? Or, is the real reason annual pirate ship practice?

Quoted from lancestorm:

Seems it is on the station *Facebook page* website as well:
https://www.facebook.com/WNEMTV5/posts/10154473815505957
I feel bad for the kids. Lost are toys and clothes and upheaval from their normal home life. But how did the station find out about this is the question I have.

Quoted from CNKay:

You guys are brutal.
If I were in their shoes, I would have broke down long ago.
How long has this all been dragged out?
That other help fund us campaign is already down??

Quoted from VacFink:

There's been an alarming transition to this thread and its happened somewhat organically, but feel like it needs to be pointed out, because maybe some or maybe most of you may not realize it.
I have always believed Pinside to be a community of good people trying to help one another and create a haven of like minds and interests in that spans the globe. The Kuleks have taken advantage of that and harmed the community, and healing and getting past that requires some justice. I felt like that was the purpose of this thread and checked in from time to time to see if we'd gotten that, for the community, so we could move past it. Hard lessons in hand and closure enough to focus on creating things again.
Recently though this has become less and less about pinball and a pinball community problem into something quite different. Its become a platform to coordinate a seemly vengeful attack on these people.
I want to be clear, what Kuleks have done and are doing now isn't morally right, and those working to try to call that out beyond the realm of this forum and the predator issue, have every right to do what they are doing and seems like legal actions. I just wonder if Pinside is the place to coordinate that and celebrate its results.
I'm not suggesting if you feel like there's moral injustice in seeing what you believe to be a new Kulek scam shouldn't be left idol, and referencing the predator problem is part of that, but it isn't pinball, and I'm not convinced it makes pinball or pinside a better place.
The attention that's coming will bring to this forum new people, many of which are NOT interested in pinball, and more importantly those that do come with good or curious intent, won't see a positive side of pinball, and that isn't good for pinball either. Other too might come only to attack those taking action from this platform. That is also harmful to the hobby and this sanctuary we call our forum.
This seems to have grown organically from a lot of emotion from sincere places, but think its taken on it's own darker form that's no longer about justice for a pinball community problem.
I'm hoping bringing this up puts enough lens on it that we bring it back to pinball and the pinball communities issue. I'm asking for myself as someone who cares about this forum. I'm suggesting that pinside is not the place for derogatory and vindictive action and to take it someplace else, so that the damage and seeds of that negative action can sew its reward someplace else.
If it doesn't then we won't heal, and will be poisoned by these people's dealing beyond the initial incident. What good is that?

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Getting ripped off sure brings out the worst of some people...
The victims of the Predator "scam" where they lost a nice chunk of change (that, face it, for the most part they could afford to lose and were hoping for a BBBesque return on their "investment", but it did not ruin their lives) actually have so little empathy that they imagine that somehow deliberately getting flooded out, uprooting a family of eight who barely had a pot to piss in in the first place, is another "scam" to garner public sympathy and relief (aka handouts)? Unbelievable.
For two seconds, can you try to see it from others' point of view? How can you think we all don't come across looking like a bunch of rich assholes? It can't possibly reflect well on our community.
I've lost more money over the years from deadbeats at the daycare center I own, who run up huge bills promising to get authorized for state assistance and then never do and disappear, than all of you put together did on Predator. $45K so far this year alone. No sense in even suing them, it'd be uncollectable. Should I start stalking their Facebooks? Or should I wait until they have a fire or something?
"Karma" (as if) goes both ways...

Quoted from jasonp:

Would the person making the pinball machine need Kevin's permission to use his likeness on machine or is that licensing thing a bunch of nonsense????....Just saying

Quoted from Taxman:

I think she really wants the house. No idea what Kevin wants and I don't think she cares what he thinks. He put her in the situation. She wants it over and a "home" for the kids. It is not a soggy house to her and she does have her community around her. Do you think her relationship with Kevin is livin the dream?
I think see would raise money by selling his balls on ebay if it would get anything.

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Ehh, I dunno. Potential buyers would certainly scrutinize their headwear more carefully, and that would take care of most concerns.

Quoted from flynnibus:

I get that from OUR POV... but at what point does the Trustee interject and say stop chasing pennies?

Quoted from Whysnow:

VirtuaPin/Paul did all of the damage to his company with his OWN words
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion?tq&tu=noahfentz
The fact that he stood behind Predator with $$$$ to gain and then we find out he took over 100k of pre-order money and did so with multiple checks of <10k made his motives abundantly clear. (Seriously, why would anyone take MANY individual checks for just under 10k at one time unless they are trying to hide something)
This lack of ethics is what has impacted his business.
he made his bed on his own! Period.
I explained to him that his best course of action was to be truthful and up front with the community (if he had been duped by SkitB which it is now abundantly clear that he was part of the group actively duping) and then they would support him and it would in fact grow his business. He spoke to me on the phone and denied taking anything but minimal deposits from SkitB. He gave me the poor me story of investing lots of money to move his business and buy more equipment just to build 250 Predator cabinents.
It was after this that it came to light he actually took over 100k of our money and only delivered 10 cabinents for an unlicensed machine he had previously gaurenteed was licensed in order to keep people in and ensure he could get more money from Kevin.
I would have personally supported Virtupin and his business if he had be up front and truthful with the community instead of lying to each and every one of us repeatedly.

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

... so confusing that some study found that a large percentage of the time the IRS help line will give a caller incorrect "help"!

Quoted from cfh:

Tim Fife's game did not go from Kevin to Tim. I think if you go through the documents you'll see it was some where before it went to Tim. I got to see it and document it during that period. As a museum curator and administrator, custom games are pretty cool and i like to check them out and document them. Little did i know it was going to be such a hot potato. I wasn't following the thing at the time and didn't know all the back story until after i got to see it and later google it.
I did get to play it too. It seemed unfinished (no attract mode for example as in no playfield cycling lights), but i would say it generally 'worked'. It needed a lot more sound work. Music was there, but little else surrounding it but some movie quotes. Also need a lot more controlled lighting work during game play, it was hard to know what to do (what to shoot for.) Impressive in many ways, but raw and unfinished in many others.

Quoted from PoMC:

Since WhysNow was banned from this thread for 5 days, I'm picturing him furiously replying to every message in a Windows Notepad file. Prepare for a FLOOD of his posts in a few days as he copies and pastes all his late replies to the recent posts in here. So funny that he cannot respond to Clay within seconds with some sort of dispute of the facts as he imagines them.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Mama K was only a small part of this.
As to why she was involved >>
#1 she claimed to be employeed by Skit B pinball and was noted as legal department or some sillly crap like that. She was part of selling games at minimum.
#2 it appears that assets were transferred from SkitB to her; in particular for the purchase of a RV. Recently, I assume the RV value (now flooded?) was deemed to be of little value or not an asset worth the time of the trustee.
Either way, Mama K was a worthless lying piece of trash so it was worth trying to go after her if there were funds to gather.
I personally enjoyed that she had to waste her time going to/from court appearances. I am also fine with the trustee cutting bait to let her off the hook at this point. If they determined the time and energy was better spent on others (I think it is) then so be it. I think we can still get her criminally investigated or at minimum investigated by fed and state for possible fraud around not paying taxes or taking advantage of the system.
I have said many times that I dont expect to get a penny back and am happy for the system to make all of their lives as shitty as possible as they blow through whatever potentially recoverable assest there may be. After the bankruptcy system is done with them, then the stay will be lifted and we can go after them civilly. After that there is still the criminal aspect. Still many years of BS for them to go through...