(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

4 years ago

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  • 18,301 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#118 4 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

we project we will be able to move about 40 units per month when we hit our stride.

40 units a month? Wow... Who is building their machines? I am curious if they are doing this themselves or working with somebody else to have it assembled, tested and packaged up. I apologize if this info has already been posted. I know that Virtua Pin is building their cabinets.

#146 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

since these are more than likely being made at cost I doubt Skit-B has any extra cash on hand to send refunds

There is no way that these are being made at cost.

#182 4 years ago
Quoted from johngravenews:

A couple of people wanted refunds and now seem to have got them. For me this is good news.

You see two people getting refunds. Many others see two people who could NOT get refunds because of a lack of basic communication, and were forced to plead on a public forum to get their money back. They should never have had to come here. When Pinside effectively becomes their customer service department, this is not good news. Plus, this is not the first time this has happened.

#197 4 years ago

While randomly looking at the Skit-B site today hoping to see an update, I clicked on their "crew" page. I thought there used to be another guy working on the project with Kevin. I remember seeing him in some of the old videos, but they have pulled all of the videos down. I looked back through web archives and found this:


His name was Aaron and apparently he was the engineer. Any idea what happened to him? Maybe this is old news, but I am curious why he is no longer part of the project. Is he on Pinside?

2 weeks later
#384 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Agree with this post Rosh
I just recently exited the project after having one of the earliest spots - #9 production #14.
That being said, I do not believe there is a license issue. My opinion, I do think like all pinball start ups it's turning out much harder than first anticipated. Whether it's suppliers, waiting on parts, or challenges with assembly line planning - this would be common for any of the new pinball companies. Even industry vets have run into these challenges (well, exception AMH).
I agree, Kevin doesn't have to appease all those on pinside - it's a no win situation. He'll never make all of us happy. Only when the game ships will some on pinside finally put down the pitchforks.
However, the communication and refund situation with owners is abysmal. My hypothesis, based on some elements of fact, is that Skit B planned to create an "owners only" experience. Pull down all video in the public domain, create owners only website to follow production, and at Expo only verified owners get to play - a special club. Sort of following JPOP approach. Unfortunately, they failed to deliver on any of it and made the situation a whole lot worse with owners. Add to that successful TBL marketing blitzkrieg right when EOD was to be unveiled and I think Kev just gave up on the whole make owners feel special thing. I think there is a conflict of identity. Will they be a boutique or with EOD were they planning to cater to a more mass Stern segment?? Right now holding on to catering only to Predator fanboys. The refund communications are to be ashamed of. Say what you will of JJP - they answered emails, phone, and delivered on refund policy. Not my place to speculate, just unacceptable business practice when return policy stated up front.
I was, and still am, very disappointed in the main feature of the painted reveal Predator not working and no acknowledgement to that fact (to owners). There was a tent two booths over at Expo we could have coffin carried it over to prove it worked. The fact no one did and now announce a new lighting kit (which is cool btw) leaves one to conclude a fail. Then just tell owners, you tried and need to cut bait on it. We get it - it happens. But for those that believe it's not being shown so to delight owners when they get the machine - with respect I call BS. I digress, as now I sound like a broken record on this one.
All this being said, I SINCERELY hope all 250 Predators get made and owners are super happy. I hope Skit B learns from this experience and improves communications at least with owners - and acknowledges mistakes along the way. I also hope they rebuild the bridge with non-customer collectors who are hoping for their success but dismayed at the lack of even general industry communications.

drops mic...

1 week later
#558 4 years ago
Quoted from johngravenews:

Err, why does it also have an age rating of 17?

2 months later
#1225 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

If you want conjecture, I am guessing that

Quoted from Whysnow:

so I am sure you can connect the dots

Quoted from Whysnow:

have the ability to genuinely be responsible

Quoted from Whysnow:

I like to think

Quoted from Whysnow:

I am never sure what is real or not

Quoted from Whysnow:

I genuinely hope

Quoted from Whysnow:

That is all conjecture

Quoted from Whysnow:

This also assumes

Quoted from Whysnow:

again, all just conjecture based on the crap

Quoted from Whysnow:

more likely it shows

Quoted from Whysnow:

Not likely assuming

Quoted from Whysnow:

I am not sure how it works

Quoted from Whysnow:

I actually don't have any insider information

What are you trying to accomplish with posts like this? You are trying to protect Skit-B, but you are honestly doing more harm than good. These quotes are just from your last half a dozen posts or so. You are spinning this web of "supposed" sabotage and making everybody paranoid, but you HATE IT when other people post without the facts.

Take a deep breath man. Stop stirring the pot with information you don't have. It is not helping anybody.

#1661 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

It is by and large a more negative place and all doom and gloom so it is hard to blame an artist and developer from going underground. Kevin does not owe anything to anyone besides those that paid in. It may be a bad business idea, but he definately does not owe it to pinside to come here.

The only threads that have any negativity to them are the ones where money was taken and product was not delivered. Simple as that. 99.9% of the threads on here are not doom and gloom. It tends to be the threads involving companies who took money (in some cases, over a million dollars) and didn't deliver the product and continue to break their own promises that are full of this kind of energy.

Stop redirecting Skit-B's failures on people who are upset about the situation. Let them be frustrated. Without this forum these people would not have a voice. To be quite honest, without this forum people would not be able to get the refunds they've requested. People are being ignored for THREE MONTHS after requesting a refund? They come here and they can actually get WHAT THEY WERE PROMISED AND NOT BE IGNORED BY SKIT-B. Thank you Pinside.

What do you want people to do? There are 250 people who were promised a game and Kevin doesn't write or call most of them back. And once again, there are more people piling up who aren't being given refunds let alone a reply to an email. Then some guy on here, who isn't even in on the game calls Kevin and gets to talk to him for 10 minutes, and has the entire situation explained to him?! It is not about Kevin owing Pinside. It is all about being fair to people and communicating after taking their money. I assure you, Kevin owes them THAT, yet is choosing to ignore them.

So I will flip your comment around and see how you like it: Pinside doesn't owe Kevin/Skit-B jack shit. If you don't like the threads here, go away. Start your own forum, and see how much fun it is to run one. Stop trying to gaslight everybody here and lumping them into this big pile that you label "doom and gloom" because you are distorting reality.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Many people here don't seem to realize the difference in providing constructive critisisim and just plain being a critic.

Exactly. Finally there is something we agree on. You are right. You can't see the difference between providing constructive criticism and just plain being a critic. Thank you for pointing this out.

#1686 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

What difference does it make if I am "in on the game" or not. I'm trying to help. I found a card with Kevin's phone number on it and decided to call and ask a few questions. I can only report what I was told. I hope things get worked out.

The only reason I referenced your involvement with the game was because there are people who have paid and want a refund, but Skit-B won't communicate with them at all. Sometimes for months. You're not in on the game, but you got a 10 minute phone call with Kevin. I hope that makes sense. I don't care who's in or out.

1 week later
#2422 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

You make it sound as if it is fact that they don't have some licenses that were shown in the prototype.

The only confirmed thing that "they don't have" is the decency to communicate with customers who deserve a scrap of information or truth about what is going on after forking over hard earned money.

#2499 4 years ago

Did somebody say Predator re-theme?!?!

Predator Duck Hunt.gif
#4375 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

That aside, the license topic was put to bed in the other horrible Skit-B thread. I am friends with Kevin. I have had the terms of the agreement explained to me. They are in order. So let's drop it.

Quoted from fastpinball:

We all know that if Predator crashes and burns, then there won't be the opportunity to do game #2. Many of us not directly involved in Predator are working hard to support Kevin's effort to get that game out. Kevin has learned a lot from the Predator experience and has already been putting that into practice in how things are going with Game #2.

Quoted from fastpinball:

The fact that Kevin was able to entice new people to work with him and what he wants to do with his games should give Predator owners a little more confidence in what Kevin and Skit-B are doing in the short and long term.

#4381 4 years ago

I just realized that they probably never had an EoD license either. If he pulled the same shenanigans on that game, it would at least mean there is some more money left for refunds.

#4384 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

I just realized that they probably never had an EoD license either. If he pulled the same shenanigans on that game, it would at least mean there is some more money left for refunds.

To clarify, I meant that hopefully Predator money wasn't wasted on an EoD license.

#5237 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

I haven't followed much of this, but I did play the Predator prototype at Expo and thought some of the rules were pretty original.
I'm not commenting on whatever Kevin supposedly did or didn't do, as I don't know. For all I know he may have been talking to someone and being mislead himself (I'm in a naive mood ).
Anyway, there is a very simple solution for the whole matter. Actually multiple:
1. Kevin gets the license after all, produces the games, end of story.
2. Another pinball company picks up the Predator license, which shouldn't be expensive at all. They also license Kevin's design. Kevin hands over the remaining pre-order money (which hopefully hasn't been spent). The new manufacturer contacts those who pre-ordered and comes with a proposal to build the game at the same (or at least a reasonable) price. If more money is required then there may be some additional incentives for thsoe who pre-ordered, assuming they are going for a >250 run. Eventually the game becomes available, it may actually see some additional improvement in the mean time, and nobody loses. Like I said I'm in a naive mode, but it doesn't sound impossible to me.

1 week later
#6769 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Stealing IP is what made pinball cool.

But you notice none of those games have the same name as the original IP or have the voices and video clips stolen directly from a movie. Not to mention Bally and Stern didn't pretend to have a full license on the IP.

If Skit-B called the game "Hunter" it would have been more along the lines of what you are describing. However, nobody would have given them any money for the pre-order. That's the difference.

#6779 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

How about "the demon who makes trophies of men"?

OK, TDWMToM it is.

2 weeks later
#7863 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Oh, the list goes on I think. Wife bought a whole lot of new photography equipment for her new studio and business in the last year (not to mention the new home in her name only.) And traveling to shows? Not only did he fly but it looks like it was a whole family affair (wife, mom, and 2 "employees" in this pic from California Extreme.) Although I doubt any strip clubs on this trip, lol. Oh, and note the advertising display for Skit-B behind them. More money.
SkitB.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Who's the guy on the far left? I swear I saw him at MGC last weekend.

1 year later
#10927 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

On one hand it's admirable that you have the energy to pursue this so that those who helped to recklessly perpetuate the deception are held accountable for the end result. On the other hand, it seems clear there is no chance of you ever getting real satisfaction as they really have no money left and very few assets (as evidenced by Kevin selling everything he had just to pay a lawyer.) No judge will make them sell their very modest home. No law enforcement seems interested in pursuing criminal charges. Look around, it is the end and it is indeed bitter for everyone. Sucks.

Your quote is actually proof that they want everybody here to stop and that the legal pressure IS in fact, making a difference. Your posts are very transparent. It makes no sense to tell people to stop pursuing a thief. You are either Kevin, an accomplice or a friend of that big rabble of scumbags. Either way, your posts are absolutely proving that the fight is worth fighting and that you/they want everybody to stop. Tell Kevin to eat a bag of shit for me. And just because people aren't getting some huge financial return does not mean that things aren't happening to put the squeeze on these losers in a way that makes their life incredibly difficult for a very long.

So again, thanks for coming on here and proving that this is indeed making their life difficult. That makes my fucking day! And I look forward to your "Gosh, I am not them. Shucks, I know how you feel. Golly, No need to keep pursuing!" reply. As always, it will be highly entertaining.

#10966 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

He has apparently been trying to sell everything he has. All Predator stuff. All EOD stuff. Even personal stuff. Just to pay his lawyer. If he could afford to hang onto even one Predator or his EOD prototype I am pretty confident he would since those were really his babies. He didn't hide the stuff. He sold it, right? That seems like a pretty solid indication to me.


Again, more info that only somebody close to him would know. The fact that you revealed he is selling his "personal stuff" to pay for the lawyer is like music to everybody's ears. It also contradicts the fact that you said none of this will have any effect on his life. You are LITERALLY PROVING that this case is fucking destroying him/you financially. Keep it up!

#11194 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

No, I don't know Kevin personally.

Quoted from HappyDayz:

I know who Kevin is like many others. I don't know him personally.

Quoted from HappyDayz:

I do know Kevin


It's just like the interrogation room at the police department. If somebody is lying, their story eventually changes.

Your constant attempts to gaslight everybody into believing that legal proceedings aren't affecting Kevin continue to have the opposite effect. It's fun to watch you get tripped up by your own lies.

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