(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

7 years ago

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Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (5 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (5 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (5 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (5 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (5 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (5 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (5 years ago)

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#24 7 years ago


#25 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

That the rules should be followed.

why don't you go back to emailing FOX to tell them how you think this is all being done under the table and stay out of the conversation unless you have something worthwhile to add?

#31 7 years ago

Jared > why don't you just repeat the things you were overheard talking about at expo and also what you have told others regarding your involvement in getting to the 'truth' about Predator?

You have said many times now that you do not want to be the guy in the center of trying to 'blow the lid off' all this but you seem to be in every predator thread with the same stuff.

#64 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

So is there a expected date for the first round of games to begin shipping? Before the end of 2014?


#67 7 years ago

Just a guess that at least the first batch of 10 will be in homes this year. Unsure how quick they can even build them but will likely take time to get a good production process down.

My best guess is that after the first batch goes out there will be feedback and tweaks with production, then I would bet things smooth out over time (similar to what we have seen with other new game makers).

#72 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

I have heard that Williams and Bally would make 10-15 "Sample Games" to put in the wild before major production to try and control quality and get feedback. Do you think they will do this with Predator? Build 10-15 samples? Or are games 1-10 the first samples beyond the demo machine?

Pretty sure the first batch going out is all the hard core fans and most will be understanding that they are getting a fine tuned and polished game but with any completely new product, once in homes and getting tons of play there will likely be feedback for improvement.

Similar to what has been seen with both WOZ and AMH.

#75 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Thats pretty cool. So customers 1-20 basically understand that they are helping to fine tune the product as well.

NO, I did not say that at all! Why do you always try and stir up a bunch of bullshit and infer things that are not the truth?

I am expecting a perfect game (and would guess everyone else is also), but I also am very realistic that I am getting an early number on a very limited game being produced by a first time pinball manufacturer. Just like EVERY game I buy, when I get it home I make adjustments to make it better.

I am also going to share my feedback with anything I observe on my own game in hopes to make it better for others further down the line.

#77 7 years ago

no sample games.

Production game with hopefully realistic owners that have reasonable expectations and a desire to make things better if they are able to do so.

#84 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Down Simba!

I don't know what the hell this even means but I take it as a personal attack. You may want to go back and read the rest of the TOS you quoted before.

#93 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

You are funny.
Down Simba is a expression used when you believe someone is over-reacting. Rest assured, I don't actually mean to infer that you are an animated lion cub from a Disney movie.
Unlike you, I've never been thread banned before.

Glad to see that if we define our personal attacks then they are just fine by your interpretation of the TOS.

#96 7 years ago

So what exactly are you doing in this thread? You obviously thus far are just trying to ask baited questions and then twisting around everything you possibly can. My best guess is that you are looking for more info that you then think you can pass on to Fox on the downlow to try and stir up things?

If we are going to define fun words then here are a few.

Attention whoring is an expression used when you believe someone craves attention so badly that they interject themselves into everything and do anything (good or bad) to recieve that attention.

Troll is an expression used when you believe someone is deliberately provocative in a forum with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

Words Related to troll


*in no way am I using these words as a personal attack. Merely defining them in case others wanted to know the urban definitions of them in case you want to use them in the future.

#98 7 years ago

Post edited

Post edited by moderator: Used a handle for another poster as a verb

1 week later
#201 7 years ago

can you post the photo here for those not on FB?

#205 7 years ago


I see mine somewhere in that picture

#207 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You better hope so since you've only got 6 weeks to get your pin if you want to win your bet!

nobody ever agreed to my terms unfortunately. Either way I will be the real winner when I am playing my game soon enough!

#211 7 years ago

I was thinking more along the lines of your TS for my HUO VND but nobody wanted to do that.

1 week later
#269 7 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Wheres Hilton?

I'm here. Waiting on the game to be delivered like the rest of the crew.
Wishing there was more communication but not much I can do about that.

#294 7 years ago

Can we please stop with the BS licensing talk? It has already been debunked. While SkitB may suck at communication they have made it clear that their are no issues with the license.

There were even some sick Pinhead detectives from TX that claimed to have contacted FOX months ago and they have not come back here with anything (try as they might to cause more harm).

This is a limited licensed game and it is progressing with poor online communication. At this point there is not much else to talk about.

#304 7 years ago
#320 7 years ago

Games are being built.

We have seen photos.

Why so much doom and gloom from so many?
Seems like lots of people getting caught up in pinside and letting themselves get riled up by a handful of naysayers with no skin in the game.

Yeah the communication sucks, but we have seen enough to know things are progressing.
Settle down, enjoy the turkey holiday, and take a deep breath while you think about all the things you are thankful for in life (including the ability to even afford taking a risk and buy into a startup pinball manufacturers dream).

By all accounts a few games should be delivered soon and then you will likely get lots of info about those games. I will say it again, as soon as I get my personal game any and all predator owners further back in the line are welcome to come see and evaluate. Fly in and we will make a weekend out of pinballin and drinking!

#359 7 years ago

atleast lowepg is an equal opportunity hater. WOZ got delivered so I suppose he needs something new to occupy his time allocated to bashing on pinball manufacturers.

#369 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

(potentially) unlicensed machine

Do you think if you keep saying this lie that eventually it will become truth? The game is licensed, and has been confirmed as such by SkitB. Either go find some evidence that it isn't or wake up and realize how silly you sound when you continue to spout this lie.

Our favorite reporter/detective claimed his 'friends' used his 'connections in the industry' to go try and dig up the inside scoop from FOX a few months ago. We can only assume he came up empty, because had he been able to even find a morsel of evidence that there was something wrong with the license he would have been here trying to get as much attention as he could.

The only valid complaint you can have at this point is that they suck at communication. Anything else is proof that you are just trolling.

Quoted from lowepg:

No other scenarios even remotely make sense.

No other scenarios make sense to you , but you have to try and put yourself in someone else's position, which I am guessing you are completely incapable of.

KISS is usually the most obvious and likely.

something like
SkitB guy #1>>"we have run into issues with getting parts in (like all first timers), things are taking longer than we thought (like every first timer), and now everyone on Pinside that does not have one on order is making up things about the license and trying to instate a lynch mob"

SkitB guy #2>>"should we do a bunch of empty damage control and waste time or do the one thing that will reinstall faith in us"

SkitB guy #1>>"Yeah, let's get this first batch done and shipped while Lowepg is busy playing his NGG with unfinished code and complaining on pinside again"

I know this may not make sense to you, but the reality is that the only thing that is going to possibly stifle the unsatisfied people is getting games delivered. As a game maker, I know where I would be spending my time and energy and it surely is not addressing people on the internet that make up lies about the license.

As an owner in the first batch coming out, I really do think we are very close to seeing them. I have been given a tentative pick up date in Dec and really do have faith that they will get it done by then. The best way for SkitB to shut up trolls is to get the game out the door and they know that.

That said, they owe some communication to those that own the game and I think they should do that as soon as they are done building my game

Added over 4 years ago:

Rai is a weird stalker

#371 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

So I'll ask you once more Hilton:
Where is there any evidence of this?

This is a very silly question IMHO.

The game has been in public and actively marketed for over 2 years. The makers have stated it is licensed. We have seen photos now of numerous cabinets all ready to go with the name plastered all over them. Games are being made with the likeness and rights all over them. Do you really think the rights holder would be allowing this (especially since some pinheads have actively contacted FOX to try and "break the big story" so they obviously know about it)?

What more do you really need or deserve?

Pretty sad that Jared has gone to FOX to specifically inquire about the license. If SkitB does not have the proper/full license then he will be the culprit behind this whole downfall. Gotta love when someone so self-important takes it upon themselves to contact Fox and try and stir up trouble for someone making 250 pinballs.

Do you go ask Stern or JJP or PPS to provide proof of license for each game?

#386 7 years ago


#387 7 years ago

in case you need help...
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#395 7 years ago

Reality > only been 5 months currently since I gave them 3k. This is NOT a long time frame by most people's sense of time. It is not a long time for me.

My game will get here soon enough.

Yes, the lack of communication sucks and I agree that it is bad for business. However, I think there is likely a more logical reason for removal of all things from the website. Probably has something to do with the license restrictions like "no online advertising". License agreements are complicated things as we have all seen many times over in the pinball world.

Hoping games get delivered soon and then all will come to light.

#397 7 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

I think you misread. He is saying even if he had contacted Fox he would keep the terrible information to himself. He is saying that if he contacted Fox he would get terrible information then hide it. the CLEAR implication is that Fox has terrible information. Prove me wrong, because that's how it reads.

He has sent PMs to a handful of pinsiders stating all sorts of doom and gloom scenarios that he claims knowledge of concerning skitB.

#404 7 years ago

Sorry Billy, but from a business perspective if I were on the other side of the coin I would consider people asking for a refund just 5 months after they put it in a PITA. I would not tell them to their face, but would be thinking it in my head.

Granted if I were on the other side of the coin, I would have a private owners club set up by now with weekly picture updates (even when things are not progressing) in order to keep those that provided the 750k of deposits happy. Easy to keep people informed than deal with refund crap IME. If I were building this game you would have sold every other game in your collection before even thinking of bailing

#417 7 years ago

RobT > It is called trust. I give all new pinmakers the benefit of the doubt until they screw someone over. At this point the only thing anyone can be mad about with SkitB is the lack of communication. I don't consider that screwing someone over.

If they disappear and actually screw someone over you can be sure I will be leading the charge to recourse (I feel confident all pins are coming in due time and nobody will get screwed over).

I find it pretty silly for someone to go out of their way to contact Fox (especially when they are not a preorder person and just looking for more attention) to inquire about the license. Toss on top of that, when they did not get the response they wanted they don't even come share it.

What it conotates is them calling Kevin a Liar and that is pretty sad when someone not even involved in the project in anyway feels so compelled to back hand slap a start up game company in the face, claim they are trying to protect others, and at the same time tries to act like they received some important info but no longer want to help others out.

I think we can all see right through the schtick. Hopefully these people will all be shut down in the near future. If games get delivered will this be enough to convince people the project is real, the license is intact, and Kevin is not sipping on an island drink on some beach?? I sure know that even any communication at this time will likely be too little too late.

#445 7 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

In your face haters and those with "terrible information" !!!

Unfortunately they will just pick it all apart and spin it for their own liking.
As I said before, even with 250 games built and into the homes of happy owners some of these guys won't be happy. Sad but true. Glad Kevin has provided a response and I look forward to more regular updates.

#455 7 years ago

Translation = oh Pinside... this is why we can't have nice things

Some people will never be happy.

Angry mob of non-buyers >"WE WANT communication!"

Kevin > " Hi folks, I am sorry for the poor communication. I planned to have games out by now that would blow your socks off, but have hit delays that were not planned for. I apollogize, but plan to have more communication going forward and share more often with owners"

Angry mob >> "That is not the communication we wanted!" "Arrggghhhh" "We need more drama!"

#458 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I appreciate the sentiment expressed here (I really do) but you have to admit that it is very strange that he once again intentionally refused to type the word P R E D A T O R once in that very long post.

To me, no, not really.

Liscense agreements can be very strange. Seems obvious to me with the language in his post that there must be some stipulation about online advertising and Kevin is specifically not saying certain words in order to fulfill obligations of this agreement. The most logical answer is often the simplest and also would make sense why it is not discussed >> he legally is not allowed?

I don't need anything else to make me happy. I have been told by the maker that the liscence is intact for making the games, I have seen photos of actual games being built, I have seen new pictures of some parts stocklpiled, and now I have communication from Kevin with a promise for more communication to owners in the future. So long as the communication lines stay open with biweekly email updates as stated then I am stoked.

#521 7 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Speculation was bred on the silence Skit B was unwilling to break and nothing more.

To be more accurate, the speculation was bred on fear mongering people that like to jump to the worst case conclusion at all times and feed off drama while trying to create a story.

This copulation was merely allowed to go on due to the silence from SkitB. Now it is like a parent walked into the room and you are all quiet while trying to hide what you were doing

Better off to spend your time wanking else where.

p.s. don't take yourself so serious

#536 7 years ago

so you are saying that combined... we are the equivalent to the reach around?

#543 7 years ago

The amount of hate that comes from some is astounding to me.

4 weeks later
#580 7 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Screw the update, at least let us know who won the bet!

Korn won the bet. I am sure he will come up with something creative for me (and I guess Kevin) to wear at MGC.

My guess is bronies and banger will be involved in some way.

I am sure it will not disappoint. Korn is creative and will surely find a way to completely humiliate while towing the line of not offending MGC folks.

I am more worried about where I have to take him for food (dinner was part of the bet also). I will suggest a titty bar but not sure if any in reasonable distance to the venue.

#582 7 years ago

I agree. I think today is exactly 2 weeks since the last update, correct?

They need to keep up on biweekly communication as promised.
As long as we get something over the weekend I am happy.

Hoping to see assemblies completed, populated pfs, wiring harnesses, etc... soon.

#604 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It was?
I must have missed it. Please provide the link. Or perhaps one of the 4 people who gave you a thumbs up for this can provide the link on your behalf since they agree that "the license doesn't allow certain forms of advertising".

It is out in the ether somewhere, but I sure as hell dont care to dig for it.

#605 7 years ago
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

Any bets if you think we will see games by Christmas 2015?

depends, what do you want to bet?

#607 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Right. Because it doesn't exist.

Actually it is out there Rob. I just don't care to go get it. Does not matter to me anymore.

I lost my bet, but my game will still get here at some point. We are thus far getting updates and some communication. I wish there was some more substance and I want to see some assembled pfs soon, but it will all get done at some point.

#623 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Again, in case it was missed, I AM A BIG BOOB!

quoted for fun

2 weeks later
#684 7 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I feel for you guys that are still waiting on this title that was due in 2013.

Was it due in 2013?

I did not pay any money besides initial deposit till June 2014. Taking longer than I would like but 7 months is nothing in the grand scheme of things and when compared to other past experiences.

#694 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballKen:

Predator coming to MGC again this year?

I hope NOT! Absolutely no reason for them to be traveling to any shows at this point. The next Prdator I want to see is MINE in MY house! If one is coming to MGC it better be mine in a box for me to take home.

#696 7 years ago

At this point, I wish I could come over to their shop and spend a week building my own game.
Just give me the parts in a pile and I will happily do all assembly.

Very glad to see some partially populated pfs and we alreayd know some cabs are done so parts are coming together.

Next I want to see a stack of vacuum formed and clear ramps on the topside.

1 week later
#720 7 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Has anything official came out regarding the game in 2015? Will Whysnow get his game delivered to him in person by the Skit B team come MGC time?

That would be great, but at this point I am just glad to see progress.

#732 7 years ago

I am VERY happy with this newsletter. Sounds to me like things are progressing, first batch is nearing completion, and they are hard at work.

I like the opportunity to reflect back from where things all came from.

Next I WANT to see beautiful finished clear ramps. That to me is the last custom part needed to bring this all together.

We have seen pfs, plastics, all game specific toys, cabinets, and a bunch of parts.

Wiring harnesses are a PITA and sounds like they are getting those figured out. That leaves ramps.

When the first batch goes out the door I am sure that things will get smoother over time.

I will be honest that I am both excited and a bit nervous to be in the first batch. Will be cool to get the game soon and be able to share it with others, but we all know improvements will come over time as things get ironed out during production.

This whole thing is going to take some time, but getting over the hurdle of delivering the first batch seems to be getting closer.

I will say, that I also do not care to see them at any shows until that first batch is delivered. After that, then then cool. They are still pinheads and deserve the opportuntiy to come play pinball and hang. I had a blast hanging and playing with them at previous shows, so hope they come to MGC again (after they have finished my game). Kevin promised to wear the shirt of shame along with me at MGC so I am assuming he will be there as a pinhead at minimum, even if not with a booth/skitB as the bigger picture.

#734 7 years ago

oh, I completely agree that I would rather see a picture of completed wiring harnesses and ramps, but I think the old pics also help to put it all in perspective.

pics and regualr news is valued and glad they are providing this.

#737 7 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I just hope they're not counting on sales of Experts of Dangerous to help fund the Predator builds.
They're so behind on the schedule that they're losing money from each Predator just due to inflation.

That is a broad assumption. Maybe their BOM is low enough that they are just fine.

Keep in mind that Predator is a pretty minimalistic machine. They may not be getting paid for their time right now, but 4750 is still a decent chunk of cash to bring in on a pretty low cost build.

#739 7 years ago

very ture. It will hurt them due to the added cost of parts now vs 6months ago.

I am guessing that the BOM is pretty low, and if they can get a somewhat reasonable/efficient pace of game build then they will still make a nice profit on the back end.

I know that I could personally assemble a full game in under a week, and if I had all the parts on hand (cab wired and done, pf on a rottessiere, wiring harnesses built, and parts ready to rock) with a small assembly line, then I could easily put together 2 in a week all on my own. Likely even more if I assembly lined my sub producitons.

Predator is a pretty simple game to build so the process (once figured out) should go pretty smooth.

#745 7 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Spooky was building 2 games a week, not sure if they're still at that pace. I wouldn't expect Skit-B to blow that out of the water magically. As we just discussed, there isn't gonna be much profit in these games, no money to suddenly build a factory or hire a huge workforce. Call it 10 a month. 250 games = 2 years.
Those are obviously just guesses, but it's based on a functioning real world boutique operation.
So you might want to stay settled in for a bit, the ride for at least some of you is far from over even if it's all smooth sailing from here on out.

I can make some WAGs, but I think these are being assembled by SkitB, which means they have much lower overhead and ability to work longer hours with less pay per hour. Spooky is doing 2 per week but could up that pretty easily if they desired by adding more people. Predator is a pretty basic game with total parts and layout.

TBT, I am pretty sure spooky is a very differnet model of produciton. They are trying to maintian a well trained workforce for the long haul and only ramp up people when they absolutely need to. SkitB is a get em done sort of production and will likely be working lots of hours with the core group to make it happen. They are likely able to absorb many of the other costs associated with an upstart by doing the assembly on their own backs.

I don't think there is a ton of meat left on the bone, but I think they will still be very profitable and able to produce a bigger number per month once they get production figured out. I mean, I can take a fully populated game apart, clean and rebuild all mechs, tumble, and reassemble in 1 week when really gunning for it. That is a new to me game with all sorts of oddities.

Streamline the process and chunk it into a manufacturing mentality and the speed goes WAY up.
I would bet good money that once trained and assembled 4-5 games, I would be able to do 5 per week all on my own. This assumes I have the right tools and space to assemble in mass.

Day 1 - populate 5 topsides
Day 2 - populate 5 bottoms
Day 3 - attach 5 wire harness
Day 4 - any cab assembly and drop pfs in cabs
Day 5 - tweaks and play testing/ switch adjustments.

May be crazy, but with a simple game and all the correct parts on hand, seems very realistic to me.

Granted it would be aweful work and something I would never want to do full time, but I feel confident I coudl do it and it woudl get easier and faster over time.

#762 7 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Lets see how accurate your numbers are, how about you give it a try and report back.
First, take one of your games completely apart, an early 90s game (or even late 80s) would be a reasonably similar level of complexity . Remove every single thing from the playfield, and also disconnect all wires from sockets, solenoids, etc (this is not a playfield swap).
Now put it all back together!! Since your plan was doing 5 games at a time, and this would only be 1 you only get 1/5 of a day per day, so, I guess that actually means, you should be able to complete the entire week/game in a single day. And hey, not like you have to worry about dimples and drilling holes (and there are probably a ton of molex connectors and the like you don't have to deal with). In addition, I'll even cut you some slack and you don't have to re-trim and wire the cabinet. Heck, you don't even have to do QA -- although you may want to
I'm sure everyone wold like to see photos of the process, and since taking photos will slow you down, you can add in an extra hour of time for that, I'm feeling generous.
So, are you up to the challenge? Anyone else?

I can put an entire simple sys 11 game together in a single day and I have done it before. Even crazier is I did not design the game and only know where parts go from referencing photos and cheat sheets I make when taking it apart and cleaning.

If I am assembling a game that I already know it will take me even less time.

I am not sure how you do pf swaps, but I take is ALL apart when doing the full job. I do leave on switchs and sockets, but the whole harness come off and all coils are clipped.

That said. let me build 5 predators in succession (learning curve) and then give me parts to build 5 at once and I bet I can build that second set of 5 in 1 week (it will be a 60hr week, but I can do it). This assumes wiring harnesses are complete and all soldering will only be switches and coils since they are using older stern style light socket push-ins.

I love predator but it is not a complex game with complex mechs.

Unfortunatley, I don't think SkitB is going to hire me and I sure as heck have no interest in building games for 4 other people at slave labor wages

#769 7 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

1 day has got to be some kind of exaggeration.
I'd be seriously impressed if you could take a truck full of Predator parts in the morning, put the machine together, and have it ready to ship that same day.

I put my entire stripped RG back together in about 11 hours.

#778 7 years ago

I do not want to hear ANYTHING about #2 until many Predators are in homes, people are happy, and there is a steady stream of them being built and delivered.

Even hinting at time being wasted on #2 is not going to help SkitB or Predator in my honest opinion.

There is only 1 thing that matters at this point and it is not EOD.

#791 7 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Really? I hate to break it to you, but companies don't usually develop product one at a time. I believe you missed the point of my post completely. In the coming months, you WILL hear about game #2 and I was trying to squash the inevitable response characterized by your post here.

The ONLY thing, and I mean ONLY thing that will give #2 even a remote shot of not experiencing a huge backlash is to not talk about it and Deliver quality on #1.

I of course would assume any serious pinball startup to have some degree of focus on #2 when producing #1, as they will need to be ready to sell and make the next game after teh first 1 is done.

That said, there is a time and place for talking about #2, and that is NOT here in and NOT now.

I may love #2, but right now (as one of the biggest supporters of SkitB and Predator for a long time) I ONLY care about #1, and any discussion or promoting of #2 before a good chunk of loyal fans/owners/preorder brothers of #1 get their personal games is not going to help anyone.

#799 7 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

Somebody pee on hilton

Does that cost extra?

#881 7 years ago


#919 7 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

In reality, it suggests that the one with the fewest assumptions is the most likely correct. Therefore, the answer with fewest assumptions is that SkitB is building machines.
Is that naive? Perhaps it is. I may have my head in the sand, in the clouds or in my anal orifice. I'm sorry, but these arguments have gotten way past old. I made the choice to support this fledgling company and purchase their vision of a Predator themed pinball machine. No one twisted my arm or placed a gun to my head; the decision was mine entirely.
I fully expect to get the machine I ordered. If not, it will have been an expensive life lesson. I would surmise that there is not one person among us that has not had an expensive life lesson at some point in their lives.
I will continue to support SkitB until they prove they are unworthy of the trust placed in them. That is my choice and that choice (and the consequences attached thereto) can only harm one person; me.

could not have been said better.

I paid in back in June and either I get the game or I loose my deposit. That was my choice and I will be the only person happy or hurt with my choice.

The sad part to me is that some people that are not in for the game have made an active choice to do everything they can try and make the game fail. I am sure a book could be written about it, but pretty sick to see some very active members in our hobby and the industry that are doing everything they can to shut this project down, with little regard that if they succeed they will be tossing 250 real pinheads under the bus along with their witch hunt to fail a pinball company.

Let's be honest, SkitB (or any company startup) has enough troubles on their own failures and the last thing any of us need is the continual 'sky is falling' mentality or weekly calls to a license holder from some pinsiders to complain. We (those that paid in) made our own decision and anyone that is trying to actively screw with that is not just having a negative impact on SkitB, but also the community of 250 as a whole. Just lay off the BS and let things unfold as they will or won't. You are not doing any of your fellow community members a favor with the continual BS.

#973 7 years ago

I would say this thread needs more boobs, but that seems to be covered

#998 7 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

Thanks for igniting another round of adolescent boys' club nonsense.

as if the talk about zombie big booby dinosaur riding hot pin-up chicks in space killing hitler teletubbies with hipster mustaches did not already take it there...

#1072 7 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

On topic - has anyone heard from Kevin at all for any kind of update? I will assume that there have been some folks that have emailed him recently. Are there any responses or are we still under the

Last email update (#4) to preorder people was on Feb 10th, so we are due for another biweekly update any day now.

I am personally hoping we see wire harnesses, production grade ramps, and ideally a few fully assembled playfields. Kevin seems to send updates around 3am CST when they come out.

#1102 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

I thought the "waiting list" was quite long.

If people are getting money back then there must still be a waiting list???
Pretty sure it was originally said that once money is in then you get out only so long as there is someone to take your spot?

Sure would be nice to see a completed production game soon and put this all to rest.

I figure I either get a game or an expensive lesson. Likely no in between.

Still sick and tired of the same worthless losers that are always in here trying to fan the already lit fire. It is not going to help get games built faster and it is not going to help those on preorder as you cheer for the fire.

#1143 7 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I've seen the email, but I don't want to be a dick to the people who've sent it to me, so I'll summarize:
Things aren't great, there are nefarious forces out to stop the project, but Kevin is committed to everyone, and you should watch out for more info. But in the meantime, feel anxious.
I wish I was joking, but that about sums it up. What a weird email to send. It would have been better to just stay not communicating then send that message.

at least have the integrity to also post that he said he promises nobody will get left out to dry on this...

bunch of fucking drama queens with pitchforks I tell you.

#1172 7 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Not what I read Aurich.

Yeah, he always puts some bullshit biased slant on everything. Him and the other "pinball reporters" always trying to have some sort of impact on every game coming out.

It is laughable. He wanted to say, "nan nan boo boo, I got to the read the email", but then doesn't want to be "dickish" and post it, but instead wants to try and cause even more conjecture with his "summary".

He would have been better off not posting anything, but then that would not have allowed him to be part of the conversation.

#1173 7 years ago

Here is the summary that was provided directly from the email. In case you don't know Aurich "in short" is a way of actually summarizing...

This is directly from the email>
"In short, no matter what, nobody is going to get left out to dry on this one, I can promise you that."
<end of what was directly from the email>

This is all that matters to me. I paid in; it will be my game or lesson to learn. Kevin stating yet again that nobody gets left out to hang on this one is the summary that matters to me. I will get a game or my cash back based on that statement. I sure hope it is the game as that is what I want.

If you want conjecture, I am guessing that the folks at FOX did not do their due diligence on the original licensing when they handed it out.

NAME REDACTED (a guy from TX that loves attention) and some of his buddies contacted FOX 6-8 months ago. He told myself and others, including some mods on here, this many times, but now he will claim that is not the case. He also was talking big at EXPO last year to quite a few people about how he and his buddy Jody (he did not say which Jody, but he did say 'someone big in the pinball industry' so I am sure you can connect the dots of whom he was inferring) were going to make sure they 'got to the bottom of it'. They wanted to show how important they are while "protecting the greater good of pinball" (yes, I was actually told this is his prime directive).

Now that FOX is more interested in the Predator licenses due to upcoming releases they have planned, they are attempting to do more due diligence after getting repeated calls from TX attention dude and his buddies 'warning' them about Predator pinball. Higher ups in FOX legal are not happy with the previously issued license and have the legal team necessary to beat any small company into submission (this is just how it works with big IP owners). I am guessing this is what is currently going on and also where some meddling kids have the ability to genuinely be responsible for leading to disaster. A few of them were obviously pawns being used by someone "big in the pinball industry" (assuming TX dude was telling the truth of "jody") and they will be the ones left with mud on their faces. I was also told that they have been working with pinballnews/ Martin? to 'break' the whole story and give it legitimacy while keeping the mud off their faces. I like to think PBN is smart enough to not be involved in anyway? Honestly TX dude has said so many crazy things that I am never sure what is real or not with him.

I genuinely hope this is not the case and honestly did not believe much of what TX pinball dude told me in the past, but the recent email from Kevin worries me that he really has brought un-needed attention from higher up in Fox.

That is all conjecture, but those are the dots I can connect based on what the meddling kids were so happy to brag about 6-8 months ago and how they were going to contact FOX to try and kill the project.

This also assumes that SkitB has had a contract from Day1 allowing them to use the license and I see no reason to not think that the case, especially considering some of the IP they have in the game obviously came directly from the studio files and could not be recreated in the quality that it was without the studio assisting them at some point.

#1175 7 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I still don't see how a phone call to Fox by anyone would make a lick of difference if everything was in order.

It is not one call, but multiple calls and messages until timing worked out for them and they found the right person to complain to at the right time.

I am not sure if you are familiar with a large corporation/business but I see it everyday in corporate America where someone lower on the ranks may have issued the original contract for the license and then later on someone higher up decides it was a bad move and they just bring in the lawyers to bully around the small company until they submit or get tied up in legal battles.

Someone insistently calling and complaining would be enough to finally get the higher ups involved. Really often just a matter of getting the right guy on the phone that is in legal or trying to make a name for himself in the organization as he fights he way up the ladder.

No phone calls from meddleing kids = no red flags.

again, all just conjecture based on the crap TX due was bragging about 6 months ago.

#1178 7 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

, the scrubbing of the internet shows some culpability here,

more likely it shows them trying to appease some legal threats.

Fox: >> "Hey, your license does not allow for online advertising or use of images online"
SB: >> "Ok, we will take it all down"

Keep in mind that if a certain "Jody" is really involved in all this meddling, then there is a HUGE incentive to try and kill not just SkitB, but all start up pinball companies as that is just smart business to kill the competition.

#1182 7 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

They may have pulled it off, temporarily, but the repercussions of a ' higher up' seeing it already built and being sold would be far, far greater. Jail potentially.

Not likely assuming they have a license in some form. Easily done for civil legal battles (even without merit) to stall a project but criminal charges are rare after a product being made (assuming some form of original contract).

#1183 7 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

If there's any truth to this, Kevin needs to get ahead of this real fast. Get his side out immediately.

You do realize that if there are ANY legal threats at all, then best MO is to say NOTHING...

I am not sure how it works where you reside, but that is always best practice if legal threats are actually occurring stateside.

Also, if PBN is involved in anyway I think they lose a ton of what credibility they have (I mean they already just report on pinball )

#1187 7 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Yeah, seems odd if there is a valid contact, even if an underling wrote it up, they'd now pitch a fit. Unless they weren't honest with what was actually going to be in the game. Corps can be brutal no doubt, but haven't known one to waste money on a frivolous claim.

it takes almost no money for a corp this big to send some letters and scare a small company or even open a lawsuit.

Pretty sure Fox has lots of upcoming Predator plans so it is entirely possible that timing alone has given them greater interest in what contracts they have out currently for the license.

#1197 7 years ago
Quoted from hassellcastle:

Inside scoop will be revieled shortly and made public. If you still have money in on this game, please request your refund now, although your chances are dwindling as time progresses.
Whysnow knows the truth as well and continues to feed and deceive others that don't know the details. Put his comments to the side and decide for yourself if this is still smart money to be invested into.

I actually don't have any insider information other than what the group from TX have been sending to me as they have been threatening me and contacting FOX... Funny part is that they keep sending me messages from an anonymous email address because they are afraid to deal with the issues they instigated it seems.

#1214 7 years ago

That is not smear Aurich.

ANYONE that is involved in the attempt to take down a project like this will lose any sliver of cred.

IF SkitB never had a license then of course that is a huge issue and they will take ultimate blame for lying to 250 pre-orders (I have no reason to think that is the case besides the continuous emails I keep getting from the 'anonymous' group from TX) , but I will still hold true that it is pretty sad if PBN is involved in bringing that to light in anyway. From what the TX guys say, they have been working with PBN on this 'story' for over 6 months?

#1234 7 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

So....people who disagree with you or express concern (such as Aurich) are attempting to take the project down?.....anyone who disagrees with you only has a sliver of credibility?

Not at all.

Anyone that went out of their way to contact Fox, send emails unsolicited to Preorder people attempting to instill fear, posted with the main purpose of trying to kill Predator, the crew from Tx that have been behind much of this witch hunt...

Those people have little credibility

#1239 7 years ago
Quoted from Marc:

I haven't been on this board in 6 months and a certain super zero from WI is still an F-tard. Guess I didn't miss anything.

Thanks buddy. The sentiment is mutual

#1274 7 years ago

This guy has been emailing me for a while now with all sorts of outlandish stuff and accusations about SkitB.

[email protected]
He apparently set up this email under the name Greg Wells and says it is an alias.

he has outed himself as part of the TX group I am referring to. He also is the person saying that he has been working with Martin from PBN on the outing of SkitB and apparently pending 'breaking news'

Feel free to email and inquire if you want more information, but guessing you will get all sorts of cryptic stuff. He claimed to single me out for his communications but has been sending stuff to others I have been told.

They obviously are a bit ashamed for whatever actions they took as they are hiding behind a keyboard but trying to make Martin take more heat by naming him.
"So who are "we" ?? We are going to remain nameless for now. (This Gmail is an alias, BTW) There will be too much of a temptation by some to forever label us "the guys who killed Skit-B" and it's not a tagline we want to own. Kevin did this to himself. Besides, we're all on PinSide and going back, it probably won't be hard to decipher who we were (although each of us will never admit it)."

" But after sitting on this for 5 months, and working closely with Martin Ayub on a responsible rollout of a vetted and on-the-record story, that will be the way this goes down." <<

I specifically attempted to reach out to PBN after getting an email from the alias assuming that if? they have a story "on the record" then they would likely be willing to talk with me as they supposedly gather 'facts'. PBN did not reply to my email, which makes it even that much stranger that they are named by the anonymous guy from TX.

Maybe he (anonymous emailer) is just punking me, and honestly up until the recent email from Kevin, I figured it was my favorite troll just being a sociopath.

#1291 7 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Who the F is Martin?

apparently a guy that runs pinball news and has been investigating claims of Predator license issues or lack of issues???

#1296 7 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I can tell you Martin has talked to Kevin, and other people involved. So no, that part at least isn't made up. The rest I couldn't say.

So what all do you know that you are keeping under wraps Aurich? Sounds like you have the inside scoop???

If you are confirming that PBN is talking with SkitB, I would hope PBN is also a responsible reporter and he will be sure to name all parties in his article (including the ones that are apparently working with him and have been anonymously emailing me).

#1311 7 years ago
Quoted from Expletive:

I don't even understand how someone would have got Whysnow's email address in order to send him "anonymous emails"?

I am not very secretive with my email address so I assume they snagged it from online or here on pinside where it has been published before.

Pretty whacked out that these people are putting in so much energy to try and fail a start up pinball company. Regardless of what comes out as the root issue, this group of people has put lots of effort into the matter for the sole purpose of hurting something they claim to care about and many others that are part of the hobby.

Aurich, I only mention PBN since Mr. anonymous has made it clear that PBN is affiliate with him. Also, the lack of PBN to reply to my inquiry is not a good sign in my POV. If you are building a story and you are contacted by an interested party, you typically at minimum would reach out to say 'no comment currently' I found it pretty odd that it did not deem a reply, don't you.

Let's not pretend that some "confidential informant" is something that should be protected by PBN, especially when these people are going well above and beyond just a confidential informant and seeking out/ emailing individuals on their own. It is a little creepy (even if my email is readily available) when guys like this are going through the effort to contact me numerous times over the past month even without reply from me. If anything, if Martin knows who these people are, I would like him to get back to me for a little piece of mind that these whack jobs are not going to take things a step further than they already have.

#1318 7 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

You don't think they are sending out BS emails just to F with you?

Quite possible, but they are sending them to others also so that makes it quite a bit worse.

If it was just me I would think it was as simple as a stupid joke. With multiple people, some that are not even in on Pred, it appears to be more than that???

#1326 7 years ago

I have come to my senses.

You guys are right. I am going to ask for my deposit back now.


#1395 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I think its disingenuous to pull that ONE quote from the email without sharing the bulk of it.
If folks want to keep playing this game of shrouding the communication- ok- well fine. But if you're going to share ONE positive sentence, I think its only fair to share it all. Otherwise, you've really skewed the message.

Since you are so very concerned about this topic you should go back and reread.

I specifically posted that quote as a counter part to the overall negative spin Aurich (yet another person not vested in the project but very concerned with it) put on his previous 'summary' while leaving that important part out.

It sure as shit isn't all rainbows and unicorns since we are getting these emails, but that quote was pretty important. That is Kevin being clear that nobody is getting screwed and he will be sure all 250 preorder people are taken care of. I have no idea anymore what that will actually be, but I still trust him to make it right with either a game or deposits returned.

At this point we have seen enough parts to build the first batch of 10 or so. To me that says there is money in the bank to either push the project forward or refund to all but 10 people. Since these guys are regular working stiffs and REAL pinheads, I have absolutely no worries that it will all work out in one way or another. As always, I am vested in the project and continue to find it sad that people like you are not vested at all but continue to try and make things worse then they already are. I will be clear that I don't owe you a damn thing and have no obligation to provide any information to you or others. I will say it is comical for you of all people to questions anyones fairness or honesty. Do you like anyone in pinball? or are you an equal opportunity hater?

#1403 7 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Soooky is good too.

Who is sooky?

how much does she charge?

#1425 7 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

That is easy for *you* to say when your game is among the first ten sitting in pieces at their place. What about the other 240 people who ordered a Predator and would like to actually get one?

Until told otherwise, I am going to assume all 250 games will get built eventually.

IF there is something amiss with the project then I assume the other 240 will quickly get their cash back since it appears not much of their deposit money has been used for parts??? (we have seen parts for ~10 games at this stage?)

#1428 7 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Surely you have believe that skitb had more costs than just the parts needed directly to build customers machines.

Sure, but I assume their normal 9-5 is being used for start up and to deal with those costs for the most part. Aside from that their is some degree of profit built in for each game I would guess.

With only parts for 10 games at this stage the only large game specific costs would be the molds for ramps. Other things are purchased JIT, so unlikely they have a huge stockpile of parts that they have blown the cash on.

What costs do you think they have?

#1431 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

You HAVE been told otherwise, I saw the email that was sent to you two weeks ago myself where this "alias' person laid it all out in black and white for you. I mean literally... at that moment.. .you were more informed than nearly any other person on the planet. You of all people.
And you have disregarded that information, crossed your arms and said "I will believe it when I see it!".
On that day you got the email, you PM'd me here, and I told you had no idea what you were talking about. I was telling the truth! Just yesterday this same person finally DID email me, and in that email they forwarded on the whole thing that they sent you, including this part: "But, you are being approached so you can mentally prepare yourself first, before anybody else. To become the strong one in a sea of flailing people"
Come on man. Really... I know you are a sharp dude... I know you are. Come on.
There is no way that 240 of 250 get 100% back. You think they have not touched a dollar in all this time beyond what was needed for parts? Not a single cent? Sure, it's true, no-one knows how much if anything is left, but for you to say that 90% is left... come on... you think he paid for trips to expo and pinball events nationally with his own personal account?

Sorry Jared, but I have no reason to believe you or some 'annoymous' guy sending me (and others) an email with no evidence to actually back up the claims. Mr. A lost all credibility as soon as he set up a fake account to start sending unsolicited emails to people on the preorder list in hopes of actually starting a mass run on the bank. Similarly, you lost all credibility when you told me almost identical things as Mr. A last October but had no proof to back it up. You just can't make all sorts of claims without the proof, and if you actually had some sort of proof for over 6 months and choose not to share it then that may even be worse.

Since you are here, why don't you tell us all about your discussions at Expo with "an extremely well known person in the business of pinball"?
The story as you previous told it 6 months ago to me and several pinside mods started out something like "We were having drinks and expo, and he revealed to me that he had intimate knowledge that 20th Century Fox blah blah blah"
Serious question>>
Who is the extremely well know person that had the inside scoop on this info? This is pretty damming stuff for them to be claiming when they had nothing to back it up. If this is all true, then YOU knew it before everyone else it appears.

Oddly enough Mr. A seems to have all the same information you were spouting off since last October
>> You said to multiple people last october something to the effect of 'I know that several people over the last several days have contacted Fox licensing in Hollywood to check in on the pinball machine. Someone is going to get a response. If it's the bad one none of us want to be true, its going to be bad.'

Who are these mysterious people contacting Fox? You are obviously affiliated with the whole thing Jared, so better off to lay all your cards on the table now.

Either way the last chapter gets written, you unfortunately spent significant time involved in the process of trying to bring it all down.
You either had pertinent information, but did not do what was needed to make sure your fellow pinheads would be warned, or you infact have been part of whatever extra complications have caused a large roadblock on the project.

Might as well name names and be honest with all you have been part of...

#1439 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

It's true, at Expo in 2014 I was told by someone in a high position within the pinball industry that they had personal knowledge that Skit-B did not maintain rights to the appropriate licenses, and never did.

You still are not answering whom this person is. You told me and others before, so why not state it publically here?

It just adds to the storyline.

Who is the magic man with all this inside scoop before everyone else?

#1451 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Did NOT mean it to come off like rubbing sand in wounds here.

a little late for that

#1457 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Meh... that sentiment wasn't directed at you.... you were bound to get sand in your va-jay-jay from ANY criticism of skitB regardless....

at least you are getting your personal attack euphamisims correct now.

'salt' in your wounds.
sand in your<what he said>

The idea being that salt in an open wound will sting and sand in your <just repeating what he said> will likely make you crabby.

Glad to see you are batting 50% on your deragatory slams.

#1466 7 years ago

I have just communicated with Kevin as well and was told in summary:

Everything is moving along.

They are currently working with liscence holders to have a deal where they can openly share everything and stop the allegations once and for all.

#1478 7 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

IMO this reads to me that they don't currently have the license. We do license deals with major studios, tv networks and all forms of stars. Never have we signed a deal where we couldn't reveal we had a license. Licensors restrict info before content is released, I had to sign a non-disclosure for Lucasfilms that I wouldn't release any content before the movie was released. Predator is an old license. Now, I'm not saying they can't get the license. It really sounds like they don't have it now.

IMO you should keep focused on your own problems of liscence rights and fair use rather than trying to continually stoke flames on others.

If you don't like how I said it, then please refer to how Ted said it if that helps you understand

Quoted from spfxted:


YES, the license is fine. He is working on getting into a better situation so EVERYTHING can be shown and talked about.

#1479 7 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

You will know that within 2 weeks.

setting my reminder for March 16th. Maybe news will come on the ides of March instead

#1502 7 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:


WOW a binks sighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#1555 7 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

I see it was in fairie tales...lol.

what is this comment supposed to mean? I am missing the joke.

#1569 7 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

maybe "not cool", but sadly "quite true"...

for a guy that does not own a single game made in the past 3 decades, you are overly concerned with anything to do with a DMD.

That is also sadly quite true it seems...

Give it 2 weeks and if there is nothing of substance reported then go back to hating with all the energy you have.

#1609 7 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

I'm not talking crap, if anything the realists are getting attacked for their opinions. Whatever 'stirring' there is, was done a long time ago. Skit-B created this mess, not the people in this forum - don't forget where the problems have trickled down from.
I'm bringing my opinion to the table.

your condescending tone of calling yourself a "realist" is in fact negative as your are insinuating everyone besides you is a donkey.

you are NOT merely sharing an opinion and when your opinion is slanderous and without fact then it creates even more us vs them crap.

If you want to speak in facts then do so, but don't claim your are the realist and not continuing to stir for the effect of drama.

We are told in 2 weeks new stuff will com to light, until that time the facts are all we have.

SkitB claims to be making games, license is fine with new negotiations happening, first batch nearing completion, and BIG update in 2 weeks time.

Other Anonymous People have made allegations against all this and have been calling FOX along the way.

SkitB is behind the schedule they originally intended and poor at communication.

I am not sure what other facts we have at this time other then what Ted provided from his conversation yesterday with Kevin.

#1613 7 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Why are new negotiations happening, if the license is fine?

YES, the license is fine. He is working on getting into a better situation so EVERYTHING can be shown and talked about.

#1615 7 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

nuts to think it was a good idea to ride this same train again.

pretty sure the preorder model is dead across the board?

I know I will not ever preorder again.

#1642 7 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

Again the place that you utilized to sell these pins??? Uh huh...makes many wonder why

I bought in to the pin after seeing it and playing it in person and in spite of the advertising on Pinside. I have to think that the vast majority of people that have bought in did so after playing at expo or allentown that first year the proto was out. I will say it was nice to feel you had a real part of the development and were not merely an eventual owner when SkitB hung out on Pinside.

However, pinside has gone WAY down hill since that time. It is by and large a more negative place and all doom and gloom so it is hard to blame an artist and developer from going underground. Kevin does not owe anything to anyone besides those that paid in. It may be a bad business idea, but he definately does not owe it to pinside to come here. That would be like saying Stern sells the majority of their LEs to Pinsiders so they owe it to us to come here and talk to us.

Many people here don't seem to realize the difference in providing constructive critisisim and just plain being a critic. At the same time, there are obviously a few genuine trolls that seem to hate everything about all pinball and endlessly bash on everything that is not them/their personal interest. These people then make it hard to even read through to the constructive critiques and they all get lumped together pretty easily.

#1645 7 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

Actually Whysnow you are incorrect. Kevin personally told my wife, best friend and I that 75% of the orders (back then, not sure about now), came from Pinside. This was at the Mich Expo. Kevins mother was also there and informed me of a couple tidbits. However, we gave our word we would not repeat. They were all positive comments btw so not to be perceived as mud slinging.

Sure, I put my name on a list, but no way did I buy in untill I played the game at expo 2? years ago and then again at MPE.

I am sure lots of people from pinside put their name down when it was a no risk situation, but the vast majority surely played the game in person before deciding to actually buy/ provide $$$. 100% of the buyer I personally know, played the game before ever handingover money. Most of those people are pinsiders, but they paid due to the shows where they played the game.

#1647 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I was just thinking:
I feel bad for the poor bastard who hasn't logged on in a few days, sees 500 new posts in this thread and thinks "Damn, they must have shipped a machine" ... or at the very least, "there MUST be some actual new factual information"

nope, still the same haters trolling for more reactions...

#1660 7 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Given how disappointed you get with non-buyers making negative comments in this thread, I am always surprised to see you popping up in MMr threads with nothing good to say. Undermines your point.

see, here you are trolling again.

The truth is by and large I have been avoiding all MMR talk. I did chime in the other day when the guy whom loaned his machine to Rick could not even get a return call for over a month. That is less MMr and just common respect when you borrow something like a 10k machine to be better with communication.

Aside from that, I have been staying out of MMr stuff even though I have more knowledge than many about some of the current issues/delays.

#1663 7 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

then why not post what you know? If you are in a thread and have something to add, add it.

because it quickly just becomes more fodder for the haters. The issues will likely get worked out. Similar to here where people take a mole hill and make a mountain out of it, why even give them the mole hill? Better off to just let the manufacturer work it out and get it right as I am sure they will over time. I also assume that if they don't then the first batch will let them know about it pretty quickly.

#2018 7 years ago

BT >>>

#2044 7 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

(Roger Sharpe?) (Heighway who already has a Fox license?) to salvage this deal somehow.

very interesting that you are now claiming this...

#2062 7 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Whysnow, you're buddies with Kevin, reasonably close geographically, and he's supposedly building your game right now. Why don't you go on a recon mission to his place tonight and get some facts for everyone else?

I don't know Kevin aside form my interactions with SkitB, you may need to reference a map as MI is a bit of a drive from WI, and I do beleive that the first batch of 10 is in some stage of production as we have seen parts to back this up.

I am happy to go on a recon mission. Please start up a kickstarter to fund this. I will also need enough money to convince Connelly to come along for the ride (just because it makes for a better story, right...)

#2073 7 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

...it appears you have inside information and/or are close to Kevin and have information that others do not. If this is NOT the case, WHY did you state the above as fact?!? "This is a limited license game and it is progressing" leaves no room for ambiguity. People read this stuff and assume all is well, and that is very bad, as we see from BT's predicament.

um... I am not sure if you are being serious? or what you are questioning

These are all facts, hence why I said that previous statement.

I can break it down if you need it said more simply:
-Production is limited to 250, this makes it "limited"
-Licensed game because well it obviously has IP all over it and we have been told by SkitB a few times that they have the liscence. This is not "scary jungle creature pinball" but "Predator". That is the difference between liscensed and not. You may choose to beleive that there is no liscence/ expired liscence/ incomplete liscence, but from what I have been told by SkitB numerous times is that there is a liscensed game and as recent as last week this was confirmed yet again. I choose to believe this is true, because I see no reason to think other at this stage. There is obviously something going down behind the scenes and I am guessing more will come to light in the next week or so.
-'Progressing' is a fact also as anyone on the preorder list has now seen 4? updates the past 2 months with photos of what appears to be parts to build 10 games in the first batch, and these games in different stages of assembly.

You put these facts all together and you get "This is a limited license game and it is progressing"

It is really not an ambiguous statement.

#2131 7 years ago

At least this thead has now determined what make for the best jarjar binks bait to lure him out of hiding.

#2311 7 years ago

I bet it will be the end of this week before we get a solid update.

Given past history, "2 weeks" means more like "14 to 21 days" in this land

#2322 7 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Hey, two weeks is now turning into three from someone who supposedly has inside info.

If you are referring to me as the person with inside info, you are wrong as usual.
I have no info, but was making a joke that the big announcement will likely be late as everything else is...

On a brighter note, I now know of 7 people that have been able to breathe new life into their pin2k games with the greatness of what can now be found on piratebay and the likes. Glad to see them keeping their games alive!

#2339 7 years ago

this thread was better with this

#2362 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:


the guy was trying to pass along what he can, you then keep it up with the same constant bullshit trolling, he gets sick of it and opts to not pass stuff along, and now you mock him.

real class act buddy

you effectively pissed off one of the nicer guys around that has for a while been our only source of ANY information. thanks.

#2545 7 years ago

I am IN!

#2604 7 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

One question though for the people that are in. Do you really think the game is good?

I love the game play and ruleset. I actually don't care about the theme.

I hope anyone wanting out gets a prompt refund.

#2654 7 years ago

I liked you better Kendeda when you were on self imposed hiatus. Whatever happened to that?

#2675 7 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

More fluff, does anyone think kevin really has any intention of following through with refunds?


#2800 7 years ago
#2803 7 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Chill dude. "I'd rather have someone with skin in the game" conveys the same thing without being deliberately offensive.

I said 'please'

#2814 7 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Your cheerleading and repeated reassurances may have convince some people into staying in this mess well past its due date. Maybe it's best if YOU step aside for once and let others try to clean up.

My votes of confidence may have had that effect and I truly appologize if this project fails and people take a loss that they otherwise would not have because they held tight to my vote of confidence. I am actually still confident that something will get worked out and that Kevin will take care of everyone (be it game, refund, or ?).

That said, I still prefer to be on the side of support and with the weight of someone actually with skin in the game than that of a detractor with no vesting.

Every person is entitled to decide as they wish and that has been their personal decision from step 1. For Aurich (a non pre-owner) to even suggest that he should lead some sort of organized effort of those with skin in the project is amusing at best (I take it as insulting honestly).

#2817 7 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

It's an open forum man. If you don't like other people's opinions, this may not be the right place for you. Until I receive my refund, I am still a "preowner". And you certainly don't speak for the pool of preowners. You may have patience and Faith, as Kevin says, but my "patience" is forced by Kevin holding onto my money and delivering NOTHING.

I NEVER claimed nor offered to speak on anyones behalf.

You may want to look in the mirror, as I am just sharing my opinion...

I hope you get a refund soon, along with anyone else requesting a refund.
Kevin stated it in the most recent email, so he better come through with the refund of anyone requesting it.

#2820 7 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

Maybe Aurich just doesn't want to see a bunch of Pinside members get fucked over. Whereas you're coming off as extremely selfish at this point...

How am I being selfish by opting to leave my money in rather than trying to get a refund and leave the remaining pre-owners with an added nut punch if this project fails.

If anything (presuming you think there is no longer enough money to refund 100% to all) I would say those demaning a full refund now are the ones being selfish. You are asking for all your $$$ back now even if it means less money back for others later...

Do you think there is enough in the bank to refund 100% to all people?

#2821 7 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

Actually it has been proven time and time again that the best person to represent is one without a vested interest. This has been proven in almost every area of life. Neighbor disputes, civil lawsuits, etc. The reasoning is that person is most likely to be 100% objective. Making decisions while taking all the emotion and anger out of it. All would benefit better with representation that has not anger or emotion. Again, this has been proven over and over again in at least 50 studies. I can cite if required.

of course, but Aurich is FAR from a nonbiased outsider in the matter.

He would be like brining in the cousin of the nasty neighbor for a property line dispute.

#2825 7 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

You're in the first few machines. We now there are parts for about 10 machines right now. Those get built, you get your machine, fuck the rest. Meanwhile I'm clear back around 160, that machine has much less of a chance to see the light of day. So as long as this goes forward for a little longer, you get yours. But if a run to the bank stops it, you don't. That's how it is perceived by someone else, aka me, reading your posts.

I presume that whatever is going on with the liscence needs to get 100% figured out before ANY game ever gets finished. #1 or #250, nothing gets built and delivered without the liscence fixed.

If the first batch gets built, then I assume all 250 get built.

I can't help it that you are #160, but I am not being the selfish one here and I have always been in for the good of the entre group of preorders and not ever just for myself.

It is your choice to request a refund (and I hope you get it soon since you want it), but I am not being selfish in this situation at all.

My assumption continues to be that either games get delivered or 100% refund. There are no other options that are satisfactory IMO.

#2827 7 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Just gotta quote this again ... man, you can't make this shit up LOL
SO if you actually get one of those ten games in Kevin's kitchen, will you sell it and distribute the proceeds to those who didn't get games or full refunds??

If I get my game, then that means both the liscensing and manufacturing has been worked out. In that case everyone still in will get their game also.

In your hypotecthical of I and 9 others get games but the other pre-owners get hosed and only get 80% of their funds back, then if napstha and all others that get 100% refunds now are going to kick back in the pool and redistribute, I would be happy to chip in and redistribute to ensure equal funds out to all vested people. I am guessing all the people that have gotten refunds already or have recently requested (and hopefully are getting them soon) are not going to be willing to put funds back in...

#2835 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Good point, and one I echoed a few weeks ago.
Whysnow, instead of this shrill cry for everyone not in to shut up, perhaps you need to consider YOUR culpability in (what has now been proven to be) your completely baseless pumping of this project.
Your shouting down of the critics - especially those suggesting there's a licensing problem should also make you feel a bit embarrassed (at best)....

I am not embarrased one bit.
I made a decision to believe what I was told by Kevin and have vocally backed the project from early on because at the end of the day this is still better than many of the current alternatives IMHO.

It appears I was wrong about the liscensing not having any problems, but that is nothing to be embarrassed about. Oops, I was wrong. Sorry I trusted someone whom I still think is a good pinhead just in over his head currently.

I am proud to be a supporter of new pinball, new pinball startup, and people (Kevin) I still genuinely believe care about the community and pushing pinball forward. I still think that things will get worked out. At this time I have no idea what the outcome will be, but I do think everyone actually involved will get taken care of and that Kevin will make things right.

You may think that is naive. I think that is a choice to be positive even in crappy situations.

If anyone wants out, then get out. If you are getting out then please do whatever you feel is needed to extract yourself.

I personally still see zero positive or fair outcome for all if I were to get out or make a run on the bank. I have said it many times, but I made my decision long ago when I sent a big check to hold my spot. I would say the only naive people are those that thought this was a no risk situation or thought they had any control after they sent the money. Once I hit send, I put my faith and trust in the project and liek in real life, pulling out just makes a mess.

If anyone should be embarrased it is people that have been phoning fox, people that have had no proof but have been detractors, people that have made a conscious effort to try and actively create more roadblocks and trouble to what is obviously a tough thing from the onset. Many of those people are here and posting on a regualr basis. Many of those people have taken to sending annonymous emails to many people for the past few months in an effort to create a run on the bank back then. These are the people that should be embarrased. They claim to have known all the gory details yet they have done nothing positive with them. Real pinheads would have stepped in and tried to get things back on track rather than toss on more fuel to the fire.

#2839 7 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

Pulling out might make a mess, but at least you're not stuck with a bad decision for the rest of your life...
I said it before, I think it is highly unlikely I will actually get a refund. But I would regret not trying to get it back just as much as allowing someone to steal from me.
I don't even have a t-shirt to show for my "faith and dedication."

I like the analogy continuation.

At this point I don't think anyone has stolen from me, then again I have not asked for a refund and been ignored.

#2843 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Actually given the huge mountain of evidence indicating a problem with the license existed, I think your strenuous claims of there being nothing wrong with the license is something that you should be hugely embarrassed about.

What you saw as evidence of a problem I still see as evidence of meeting limited liscence requirements and adjusting as more things come to light. The only 'evidence' I have been given to this actually being a liscence problem is the current email. Aside from that it has been all jumping to conclusions follow by more jumping to conclusions. There is zero doubt that this is a bad situation and Kevin is in way over his head at the moment, but I see little choice in being doom and gloom and still don't think I have any control over the current situation, so why not stay as positive as I can?

I am not embarrased one bit, no matter how much some boob tells me I should be. or how many detractors give you tumbs up. Some of them have actively choosen to not be a positive change or 'save' people for oevr 6 months even though they claim to have had much of this info for a long time.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong. I own it. 'I believed Kevin when he said there was nothing wrong with the liscence, and it is now apparant there are issues with the liscence' I believe that Kevin is still attempting to get things worked out and I beleive that Pinball News will hopefully be publishing some more details soon.

I did not believe ***** when he told me 6 months ago that he and his friends were contacting FOX to get to the bottom of the claims and to make sure they were looking out for the greater good of pinball. I did not believe ***** when he claimed that Jody D******* was working with him to contact FOX and that their were liscence issues. Similarly I don't believe the annonymous emails that agree with much of what ***** was saying back at expo last year. I am not embarrased for not belieiving them, especially since 'liscence issues' are only a small fraction of the things they have claimed.

I still choose to believe in the project because honestly it is still better than the alternative.

#2851 7 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

But you know as well as I do what those anonymous emails said.

I am not sure which emails you got from the annonymous group but the ones I have received have made all sorts of claims that have already been wrong along with outlandish things like having preowners as part of an already pending lawsuit, criminal charges on multiple people, naming specific pinside mods as involved in the annonymous group.

Multiple things that are wrong.

This combined with their annonymous approach does not make them very trustworthy.

At this point they have been marginally right on 2 things. There are issues with the liscence (they claim much worse), and that PBN will be publishing an artcile (possible that Martin only came involved after he was mentioned in these emails? or actually contacted by the annonymous group to be involved).

On the note of PBN, can anyone that knows Martin get a response from him and see when he will be publishing whatever story he is supposedly publishing?

I have message twice through the contact on the PBN website and no reply. Maybe someone that knows him can get a response.

#2853 7 years ago

oh shit. watch out everyone the spelling police has done shown up.

#2858 7 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Enlighten us. For $5,000 what is Predator better than? Lots of old pins you could get they are much better and proven. This pin is just blah.

It is better than gold pecker gandolf over priced version of LOTR, that is for sure.

It is almost as good as ripping off a kid for a fix it felix I have been told...

#2860 7 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

LOL....Predator better than LOTR!?
The delusions are strong with this one.

nah, just better than paying too much for a gold pecker version so it can dress up the room.

#2871 7 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

The Players in the Con (Confidence Game)
There are three key players in any long con: a victim, a con artist, and one or more associates.

The Mark: The intended victim of
The Grifter: A practitioner of confidence tricks, or more informally, a con artist. A grifter may play many roles, and often creates multiple personas over their career.
The Shill: An accomplice to the grifter, who has no apparent connection to the con. Shills are put in place to encourage the mark to act in the desired way.

so you are claiming that I am part of an active con?

#2896 7 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Lets get serious, he is no Gene Cunningham. I'm sure whatever is sitting in that paypal account is all the money he has in the world.

Lets be more serious. What really are the expeditures formt he account?

So far we have seen parts for 10 games post deposits being sent.

If we take a random guess that those parts total 5k per game (over shooting on this one) that means $50,000 spent out of 750k on actual parts. That hypothetically leaves 700k in the bank.

If Kevin decided to call it quits he could refund 93% of the funds (minus paypal cut?) to each person with little issue.

Do people really think he has been blowing large sums of money in mysterious ways?
Many people have met him and think he is an over confident but all around good guy that is in over his head. If this is the case, then unlikely he has blown through much more than the parts for 10 games.

Do people think a bunch of cash is mysteriously gone?

#2902 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You are WAY overstating things again Hilton. 93%?
Not even close. You obviously don't have any facts

so everyone else is allowed to guess at random shit , but I am not?

Do you think he has somehow blown a bunch of cash?
If he has even spent 50k on parts that is a stretch in my mind.
He is reasonably active in the community in MI. Has anyone seen him driving a new car? Partying with hookers and blow? Anything to even hint that he has been using money for anything besides parts for the 10 games we have seen at this point?

#2907 7 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The theme sold the game. Just compare the sales between it and every other pinball startup and compare what the game is, minus the theme, with every other pinball boutique game.
HAD Kevin made a (real) deal with Fox in the first place, paid them their $50k, that would have been the best money he ever spent.

I bought in DESPITE the theme. I loved the gameplay and ruleset. Seriously a great and FUN game to play, esp if you like sys11 style of play with great player interaction and immersion.

That said, it really is a moot point if the games don't happen...

What sold this game actually had less to do with theme and much more to do with timing, price, and limited availability combined with at one point a fun interaction with the designer and the ability to interact and actually be part of the project.

#2922 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Actions...speak louder than words.

Agreed. He said he woudl process refunds and needs to stand behind what he has said.

My only hope is that he is near having the full story come to light and that is the hold up.

I know that IF this all implodes I would prefer he does not refund some in full now and less to others later. IF this is all imploding like some beleive then the best course of action would be to refund an equal percent to all (again assuming that some amount of money is already spent and he is not able to do 100%).

Kevin needs to make some sort of decision or step to the plate soon as others are obviously not going to wait much longer before persuing other actions and as far as I am concerned bringing legal action in anyway is not going to help anyone but the lawyers.

#2926 7 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm sure those Back alley skulls and bones could be given out as souvenirs. They aren't Predator IP.

the ONLY parts IP related are pfs and the decals on the 10 cabs

#2952 7 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

He pm'd me when I asked the question why he down voted me but wasn't replying. He told me he wasn't coming back in this thread. ::shrug::

lowepg trolled him out of the thread a few pages back.

Can't really blame Ted for departing after that.

#2960 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

You keep alluding to the fact that you have inside info here- why not share it? Or.... not say anything at all?
Why keep teasing these guys with your access when they cant get responses for months (THEY being paying customers).

Quoted from spfxted:

Fine. I was giving info I was getting and trying to be helpful.
That's it. Bye!

Quoted from spfxted:

Thanks for the PM's. No worries...there are obviously some assholes on here. If you have questions...just PM me...

sounds like anyone looking to talk to Ted could PM him. He got tired of lowepg's crap and left the thread. That is not an excuse. That is his perogative to not deal with some people's BS.
He offered up to PM him if you have a question.

#3016 7 years ago

never seen breaking bad as I don't watch much TV.

I currently think that shit is still being worked out. The fact that Martin has not published anything and so far has not returned either email I have sent, but has been confirmed to be working on a story, tells me there is still hope that this will all work out. He is silent and the story is not publishable yet.

I will continue to take it on faith that 2 important things are occuring now and that neither can be talked about by Kevin until they are solidified.
1> someone that knows what they are doing has gotten involved to help out with the license issues. We have seen other examples int he recent past of other companies getting help. If those issues can get sorted out (and that is a WAY higher profile license) then for now I will beleive that these will also get sorted out.
2> someome with manufacturing experience is being talked to and trying to work stuff out.

What I would like and have asked for is a timeline of when these things will become public info.

I would also like for those requesting a refund to have it issued. Kevin needs to take action on those asking for money back. Let's be honest here, IF the game gets made and only 150 out of the original 250 are in currently then there will be no issue for Kevin to sell the remaining 100 after the first ~50 have been delievered. I would actually guess he could easily sell them at a premium or inflated price after the first couple batches come out (again assuming that license securement is confident with whatever comes to light and people know the games are being made).

It actually woudl be kind of crazy but entirely possible that a scenario could work out where people bailing now would allow Kevin to actually make an eventual profit buy selling the last 100 games for 6000 and announcing that after all the current stuff gets worked out. I have to assume that an extra 125k would take care of any license issues and likely cover a good chunk of any manufacturing help?

#3046 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Although he knows some programming, firewalls are clearly not his strong point.

Please pm me a piratebay link to the code once available

#3060 7 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Its naive to think in 3 years time he's only spent money on the ten games. blockquote>

I am not sure when you gave him money but I did so AFTER the vast majority of what you bring up was long over.

I gave him my 3k last June (28th I thin it was for the deadline).

At that point onward he has not spent very much on games and shows have been very limited.

#3079 7 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Do you know this like you knew the license was fine? Seriously, is this a WAG or actual knowledge behind it?

I assume the vast majority of people paid nothing in over the original $250 until the deadline last June.

Since last June we know that SkitB has traveled to Chicago Expo in October. As far as I remember shows before that were MGC and TPF, but not completely sure. Those were both prior to June deadline.

After June deadline we have seen travel to 1 show which was in driving proximity, 10 cabs, 10 pfs, the majority of enough parts to build only 10 games, plus stuff made by back alley for 250 games. We have also seen 1 prototype #2 game.

Prior to June we saw a 100%? completed Predator wit no major cost based changes since then.
I would presume in a worst case scenario 100k has been spent at this point. That assumes 50k in games for the 10 in production phase and 50k in fluff for travel to 1 show and poor use of money to live life and work on game #2?

I can not see any way that more than that has been spent and even that is a stretch.

Kevin should be refunding anyone that requests a refund their money and he should do so within a week or 2 of request. At minimum he should be communicating with every person that has requested a refund to let them know status, even if it is to say that it will take X days for refund to process. We saw from the previous poll that a few months ago there were lots of people that had successfully gotten refunds.

I think it would go a long way to restore faith for those on the fence if those that requesting refunds got them in short order.

#3087 7 years ago
Quoted from Jetzxi:

How is that an excuse, he doesn't come here. I pointed out things that are being said on here about him / SkitB today and he wanted to know if a Q&A might help, so here I am asking.
Do you guys want Kevin to come on Pinside and do a Q&A?

yes. communication is needed (and has been needed)

I would like Kevin to come to Pinside for a q&a.

I think it would be a good idea to get a moderator involved as there are obviously some people that will ask beyond mean questions at this stage and it may be a good idea to have a mod enlisted to be ready if things spiral at any point.

It may also be a good idea to field some questions in advance.

#3136 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

The thing is- the issues that Kevin needs to address aren't incredibly nuanced or anything! It's not like a moderator has to craft complicated questions:
1. What EXACTLY is the state TODAY of the license.
2. ARE there sufficient funds to refund the folks that have asked. If not, what CAN you do.
3. WHO is building the game and WHEN are they going to build it.

I can likely answer these without Kevin

1. We are currently working out the logistics of the current license and can not discuss it more at this time. We plan to have things completed by X.
2. ?
3. We are currently working out the logistics of the game manufacture and can not discuss it more at this time. We plan to have things completed by X.

There are many questions which are apparently in play currently and it is unlikely those questions will be answered in any way that makes people happy.

#3140 7 years ago

Questions of merit that can and should be answered.

1. What is the status of refunds? Are you refunding everyone that asks at this time and how long will it take ot process those refunds?

2. You have said that you are currently working on license agreements, when do you realistically expect to tell us the details of the license?

3. You have said you working with an experienced manufacturer, when do you realistically expect to tell us the details of this?

4. Are there any changes planned to be requested for the current agreement (price, production number, etc...)?

Really the main question that matters at this stage is where are the refunds and how long till they get processed. Kevin said in his email that people would get refunded. Step #1 is getting these people their money and at minimum providing them a timeline of when they will see it.

After that the real question is WHEN are we going to get solid info regarding production and license status?

TBT, those are the only things that really need to be answered currently.