(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

4 years ago

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  • 18,269 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 63 days ago by Cobra99
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#430 4 years ago

I was a pre-order but backed out a while back but still interested in the outcome as got a friend who is getting one. Whatever the 'real story' I find it mind boggling that after taking $750,000 from customers, and promoting the game heavily on this site, there is complete radio silence. We live in a world of too much communication, tweets, emails, texts, facebook, phone calls and yet there is nothing.

Good luck to those still waiting but something is amiss - the rest is speculation.

#468 4 years ago

Online advertising seems most likely explanation but why on earth doesn't he just say so!

1 month later
#589 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

It's comical that the "new" website (replacing the last one that was only a year old) still has no Predator on it, but Funhouse and duckhunt are there.
Update also doesn't name the game or show anything that would identify it as a Predator game.
Good luck to those waiting.


2 weeks later
#664 4 years ago

Kind of an obvious question but if they really were building games now, wouldn't they be shouting from the rooftops about it?

1 month later
#1167 4 years ago

Maybe best solution is to refund all those that want out.

Then, if still viable, build Predator for those left. No new orders.

Call, it the Predator Survivors LE.

#1791 4 years ago
Quoted from Buschjs:

The problem with this is that he is not responding to refund requests. I requested my refund shortly after the first of the last two emails and did not get a response; there are people who have been trying to get their money back for months with no response.
I am beginning to wonder if more refunds will be issued.

Is he legally responsible to issue refunds? Can't believe no one has gone in person to demand one.

#1855 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

I have had enough conversations with Kevin, in which enough details we discussed that it gives me a confidence he was licensed. Whether that license was allowing him to do things he did is a different question. It is certainly possible, given Kevin's experience level, that Kevin may not have fully understand what he could and could not do.
On a side note, it is certainly 100% clear he has he a license for EoD
A year ago I spoke with an old friend of mine who is a C-level guy at Fox, while our conversation was more about family and life stuff, I did ask him about licensing since I was curious about with all that was going on, and I know he has been involved in that for many years. I did not ask him about any specifics about Predator, since I had no reason to (although pretty sure I mentioned it during the conversation).
It was clear from that conversation that any licensing deals he signs off on have a limited timeframe. That is done for many reasons, including ensuring a license is not tied up too long for a particular product that may never make it to market. They also do it since they want to get better terms if a product has done well for a manufacturer who wants to keep using the license, where clearly the license has value to that manufacturer. In addition, they recognize in that case, that the R&D expense has now been recovered, and there is more room for them to get a bigger license fee from future sales (often the licenses have an increasing license fee at different production levels for the same reason).
Based on that conversation, it would seem to me that Kevin is now beyond that window of time, and likely needs to re-license to continue. This is purely conjecture on my part, based on what I know, I have not seen the contract, and as I said, I did not ask for specifics on Predator. I would tend to think that given where Kevin is with production, that they would be open to extending the license, since it seems clear he is ready to bring the product to market. I do have to wonder what impact this has on his negotiating position and the cost of the license.
As far as cost of production a prototype, having built a couple of custom games, I can tell you from a shear 'parts cost', you are looking at $5K if you were only using 'common' parts. However, his ramps are not common, so he likely had a significant cost (molds for the ramps are likely $5K or more). The cost to develop the artwork, engineer the playfield, software, etc if a far more significant cost. I have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours writing software, creating art, coding dots, sound, etc. for each of my games, so I would estimate that even for a prototype, you are looking at $100K minimum to develop a playable prototype -- if you were actually paying people to do the work.

But Predator disappeared so long ago off the website that surely it doesn't take this long to re-license? I backed out long ago but hoping my friend gets his refund!

#2051 4 years ago

What I don't understand is why no one can talk to Kevin directly or just find him in person? Whether he has license or no license, he must have most of the money unless fraud is involved? In which case why not just give people their money back????????

#2103 4 years ago

Could be painful....

#2106 4 years ago

Is this Predator outfit?

Ah, who cares!

#2228 4 years ago

Seem to going off tangent.

Time for a side boob then....

#2430 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

I'm aware the message seemed cryptic and vague, but that was not the intent. The project is not "imploding" or dying.

Oxymoron alert

#2586 4 years ago

Actions speak louder than words. Time for Kevin to DO what he says and refund all those who want THEIR money back. Everything else is just unicorns right now.

#3028 4 years ago
Quoted from mac622:

What happened to all the gingerheads and boobies? This thread's not worth reading anymore

Ok then..

#3248 4 years ago

Kind of like this at the moment...

#3337 4 years ago

From their latest update, this is the line that really is incongruent with reality.

'Rest assured that your investment is being taken care of by more capable hands than ever.'

#3619 4 years ago

Seems clear to me the only option is to call quits on the whole project and refund whatever is left.

I sincerely hope we are dealing with naivety and not anything more sinister.

I have friends still in and I hope they get close to all their money back.

#3743 4 years ago

So, it would seem one of the questions is, was he intentionally deceiving from the get go?

Quoted from RobT:Vid....that is exactly my point!
In fact, the more I think about it, it could be three separate things: 1) Fox IP issues 2) Wirefraud/criminal proceedings 3) Civil lawsuit(s) by people who gave money to Kevin for Predator.
If he gives the money back, he eliminates 2 of the 3.
Keeping the money makes zero sense from Kevin's standpoint. It makes things worse. Lawyer or no lawyer.

Much better to declare bankruptcy after giving the money back and avoiding potential criminal charges.

So, it would seem one of the questions is, was he intentionally deceiving from the get go? Civil or criminal?

Criminal copyright laws exist to protect the creative property of people in the United States. The unacknowledged use of another’s intellectual property for the purpose of financial gain can break copyright laws and lead to fines and jail time. Criminal copyright laws have been a part of U.S. laws since 1787 when they were written into the Constitution. It first protected creators for 14 years with an option to renew for another 14 years after the first period had expired, then in 1909 the time span was extend to 28 years with the option to extend for another 28 years once the primary span concluded. Now the law protects for the creators' lifetime and beyond that. The violation of copyright laws can lead to civil and/or criminal penalties. Criminal requires that the offender knew that he or she was committing a crime. Those who commit civil copyright infringement can be “innocent,” “ordinary,” or “willful.” In recent years there has been some debate over how much someone should be punished and what value should be placed on what was stolen. This has lead to prosecutors perusing more clearly understood cases instead of trying to decipher the, now expansive, laws.

#3981 4 years ago

There is one hell of a lot of this going on.....

#4671 4 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

"With all the chaos of the last few days I see it only fitting to remind everyone that I am still here and going through the necessary processes to get everyone what they've asked for. An official statement will be released as soon as possible, but you all need to know that I have not, as recent articles would have you believe, disappeared, nor do I plan to. My endless apologies for what you are all enduring, and you are all paramount in my mind while we expedite a solution to the issues you are all facing currently.
Argh, so you are still gonna build us a Predator pin?


Pot of money divided by 200.

Then send.

#4675 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

hum... given that people paid either $250, $3000 or $4750...

Ok, not rocket science but if 75% of money left, then 75% of all those amounts - then hit the refund button

#4766 4 years ago

Trying to work out what kind of person could do this. This kind of person certainly could......

Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

#5496 4 years ago


1 week later
#6784 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Yes, agreed, which is what my point was. You don't have to have pre-order dollars in order to build an amazing machine (contrary to what Panzerfreak stated.)
After seeing what has happened here with Skit-b I would be more skeptical of JJP than ever. The fact that they had to take pre-order money on game #2 almost two and a half years before the game will actually ship is a bit scary in my mind. I have a hard time seeing how they're solvent long term. Could be true of DPL too but we'll see how many TBL they sell and how fast they can move on #2.

Have to agree. Scary for sure.

1 year later
#11163 2 years ago
Quoted from LadySlingshot:

I wonder if there is anyone on Pinside who "doesn't" think RobT is anonymous.

Ah, Lady Kaneda, the lure of pinside is just too much

#11209 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

So you do have a vested interest in keeping Kevin from being sued and chased until the end of time.


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