(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

5 years ago



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#10751 4 years ago

With hindsight, I don't think Kevin would have been able to produce 250 machines even if he had the license. At least, not at the $4750/machine price. He would have needed to get more funds from somewhere.

I thought his original estimate for getting games into production (something like 6 months) was so unrealistic it pointed to his inexperience, and I doubted his ability to complete it. However, when he was a year past his initial estimate and the project was still moving forward I took another look.

Based on where the project was at and the sincerity in Kevin's posts, I got on board. Businesses fail all the time for one reason or another, so I knew the money I put in was at risk. The fact they never had the license was a surprise. However, the end result is more disappointing than surprising to me.

I still don't believe Kevin started out with the intention of committing fraud. I think he got in way over his head and handled it poorly. And yes, probably committed fraud along the way in an attempt to hold it all together.

13
#10752 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

There are two predators in existence. The one that Kevin was hauling to the show. And the other one Tim has. There are no other complete games or even close to complete games. There are some parts out there but that's about it. There is a chance that up to five predators could be made. But there are more major assemblies that are not available. The biggest block on the whole thing is the ramps. There was only two sets ever made and one is in Tim's game and the other one is in the original black predator. There's no others. So at this point in time there are no predators that can even exist, because there simply aren't enough parts to make one.
You also need software too. It's not like that's readily available either. And Milton stop lying about stuff. You don't know anything.

I wish i had a video of you turning into a ghost and scurrying off when i asked you about your predator machine. You are not a poker player clay.

Don't forget Milton is the one whom burned the whole fucking place down also.

-11
#10753 4 years ago

Again I saw the Tim Fife predator and I was really impressed with it. It had a nice finished look to it. It played well too. Kevin could do it. He just didn't have everything in the right order to make it happen. Licensing was a fiasco, but Kevin thought he had a handle on it. Apparently he was delusional though. But if The anonymous pair hadn't confronted fox, and then fox hadn't pushed kevin, it is my belief that predators would be in production right now. Kevin was convincing enough to pull this whole thing off. Yes there was a lot of sales pitch, potential lies and half-truths so on and so forth. But as long as the wall didn't come crashing down I believe he could've pulled this off. Again if you saw the Tim game you would know exactly what I mean. It was nice, really nice. And it proved that Kevin could make a game in its totality from beginning to end.

The best story to me about the predator was again the ramps. Paul, the cabinet guy, and Kevin went to to see Terry in Chicago. They stayed overnight at Terry's house and we're scheduled for an 8 AM meeting with the ramp manufacturer. This is the same company that makes ramps for Stern.

8 AM rolls around and Terry and Paul are dressed to the nines with nice shoes and button down shirts and nice pants. Kevin appears in torn pants, dirty T-shirt, and that goofy hat he likes to wear. Terry and Paul are like, "dude you have to dress up for this you can't look like that." Kevin says, "I have to be me and this is me."

Needless to say, the ramps were never made. Kevin would have had to cut a rather large check to the ramp company to make it all happen, and he never did that. Instead the only ramps that exist are the two prototype ramps that were made from a course crappy mold for low dollars.

Now that the bankruptcy thing has been declared, a lot of things have changed. The lawyer had to be paid and apparently he was paid in some assets (due to lack of money) from Kevin. The story goes that the assets then were bought by an unknown third-party to cash out the lawyer. So some parts to predator are available. Not enough to make a game, not even close. But My intention is to try and gather as much of the parts as possible and then attempt to make a predator.

Somethings are fairly easy. The cabinet for example is a standard Williams cabinet. The artwork for the cabinet is just black with red lettering that says predator. The back glass is just the DVD reissue box scanned. The playfield and plastics are out there as 10 sets were made. The metal ball guides are available as a local vendor made those and he still has the construction sheets so more could be made inexpensively. Most of the other parts for the top side of the playfield are readily available and used in other games. The ball trough is a stern ball trough. The lower ball arch is a stern ball arch. The computer is a standard PC. The proc boards are readily available. The dotmatrix display is a standard plasma display. The power supply for the DMD is available. The game uses a 48 V power supply for the coils. 12 V switching power supply is used for other things.

The wiring harness has to be handmade too. Kevin was doing that all himself by hand. It's very time-consuming to do it that way but that's how it was going to do it. There is only one assembly not available and that is the ramps. Unfortunately they are custom ramps made just for predator. If this problem can be solved then a predator could be made. This is my goal but I'm kinda up against the wall with these ramps.

As for the software, I've asked Kevin about that. He is not against letting somebody have it. But you need to have at least somewhat of a game before he will give it up. Right now the biggest issue is the ramps. I'm not sure that this problem can really be solved without some luck and hard work/time/money.

#10754 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Apparently he was delusional though

That sums his project up

#10755 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Again I saw the Tim Fife predator and I was really impressed with it. It had a nice finished look to it. It played well too. Kevin could do it. He just didn't have everything in the right order to make it happen. Licensing was a fiasco, but Kevin thought he had a handle on it. Apparently he was delusional though. But if The anonymous pair hadn't confronted fox, and then fox hadn't pushed kevin, it is my belief that predators would be in production right now. Kevin was convincing enough to pull this whole thing off. Yes there was a lot of sales pitch, potential lies and half-truths so on and so forth. But as long as the wall didn't come crashing down I believe he could've pulled this off. Again if you saw the Tim game you would know exactly what I mean. It was nice, really nice. And it proved that Kevin could make a game in its totality from beginning to end.
The best story to me about the predator was again the ramps. Paul, the cabinet guy, and Kevin went to to see Terry in Chicago. They stayed overnight at Terry's house and we're scheduled for an 8 AM meeting with the ramp manufacturer. This is the same company that makes ramps for Stern.
8 AM rolls around and Terry and Paul are dressed to the nines with nice shoes and button down shirts and nice pants. Kevin appears in torn pants, dirty T-shirt, and that goofy hat he likes to wear. Terry and Paul are like, "dude you have to dress up for this you can't look like that." Kevin says, "I have to be me and this is me."
Needless to say, the ramps were never made. Kevin would have had to cut a rather large check to the ramp company to make it all happen, and he never did that. Instead the only ramps that exist are the two prototype ramps that were made from a course crappy mold for low dollars.
Now that the bankruptcy thing has been declared, a lot of things have changed. The lawyer had to be paid and apparently he was paid in some assets (due to lack of money) from Kevin. The story goes that the assets then were bought by an unknown third-party to cash out the lawyer. So some parts to predator are available. Not enough to make a game, not even close. But My intention is to try and gather as much of the parts as possible and then attempt to make a predator.
Somethings are fairly easy. The cabinet for example is a standard Williams cabinet. The artwork for the cabinet is just black with red lettering that says predator. The back glass is just the DVD reissue box scanned. The playfield and plastics are out there as 10 sets were made. The metal ball guides are available as a local vendor made those and he still has the construction sheets so more could be made inexpensively. Most of the other parts for the top side of the playfield are readily available and used in other games. The ball trough is a stern ball trough. The lower ball arch is a stern ball arch. The computer is a standard PC. The proc boards are readily available. The dotmatrix display is a standard plasma display. The power supply for the DMD is available. The game uses a 48 V power supply for the coils. 12 V switching power supply is used for other things.
There is only one assembly not available and that is the ramps. Unfortunately they are custom ramps made just for predator. If this problem can be solved then a predator could be made. This is my goal but I'm kinda up against the wall with these ramps.
As for the software, I've asked Kevin about that. He is not against letting somebody have it. But you need to have at least somewhat of a game before he will give it up. Right now the biggest issue is the ramps. I'm not sure that this problem can really be solved without some luck and hard work/time/money.

Nice attempt of a cover setup story. the software is readily available and obviously you know how to pull it from Tims game also. Or you could just pull it off yours...

#10756 4 years ago

Milton I must stutter. There's only two predators. One is Tim's and the other one is The one Kevin has the proto. There's no others. Tim's game is not available to me or anyone else. I don't know Tim at all and I have no access to his machine. He lives close by to me but I do not know Tim. And even if I did I suspect he would let me anywhere near his machine. Predator is a sore spot for him as demonstrated by the gang raping he took here.

#10757 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

But if The anonymous pair hadn't confronted fox, and then fox hadn't pushed kevin, it is my belief that predators would be in production right now. Kevin was convincing enough to pull this whole thing off. Yes there was a lot of sales pitch, potential lies and half-truths so on and so forth. But as long as the wall didn't come crashing down I believe he could've pulled this off.

Damn anonymous group...how dare they do something so dishonest.

He almost got away with it...just like others who commit fraud.....

kevin_(resized).jpg

15
#10758 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Predator is a sore spot for him

Predator is a sore spot for him?? The one guy that actually got the game he paid for? My heart bleeds for him.

#10759 4 years ago
Quoted from Fintan_Stack:

Predator is a sore spot for him?? The one guy that actually got the game he paid for? My heart bleeds for him.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Owning one would be a huge, ugly can of worms. There are a lot of angry people.
Maybe once the case is settled people who lost money might not be as angry, maybe the owners might feel safe enough to allow them to see the light of day. But right now--the owners risk harassment, vandalism, and possible theft of the game.

Quoted from cfh:

demonstrated by the gang raping he took here.

Folks were not kind to him when they found out about it.

#10760 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Milton I must stutter. There's only two predators. One is Tim's and the other one is The one Kevin has the proto. There's no others. Tim's game is not available to me or anyone else. I don't know Tim at all and I have no access to his machine. He lives close by to me but I do not know Tim. And even if I did I suspect he would let me anywhere near his machine. Predator is a sore spot for him as demonstrated by the gang raping he took here.

my question would be are you currently in possession of any predator pinball parts and/or incomplete machines.

#10761 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Kevin would have had to cut a rather large check to the ramp company to make it all happen, and he never did that. Instead the only ramps that exist are the two prototype ramps that were made from a course crappy mold for low dollars.

Why is that? I wonder if that meeting was before or after Kevin's post with the bag of parts asking how many predators they could make and assembly had started. Sounds to me like he was out of money long before fox got turned onto him.

10
#10762 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Milton I must stutter. There's only two predators. One is Tim's and the other one is The one Kevin has the proto. There's no others. Tim's game is not available to me or anyone else. I don't know Tim at all and I have no access to his machine. He lives close by to me but I do not know Tim. And even if I did I suspect he would let me anywhere near his machine. Predator is a sore spot for him as demonstrated by the gang raping he took here.

Clay, it is widely known that you have a predator and parts machine in your possesion.
You have to be smart enough to realize you had to keep that secret from everybody if you wanted it to stay hidden. Your very own club members confirmed it for me last month. You are better off just not posting rather than making up bs cover stories like you are in the process of building your own game.

Alli want to know is if you are going to make it available for play once all the legal stuff is settled?

#10763 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Why is that? I wonder if that meeting was before or after Kevin's post with the bag of parts asking how many predators they could make and assembly had started. Sounds to me like he was out of money long before fox got turned onto him.

Part of the reason could've been the unprofessional appearance that cfh described. Sometimes if you want to hire someone to do something as somewhat of a favor and they don't like you, sometimes the deal has to be lucrative enough for them to even bother to lift a finger.

#10764 4 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Part of the reason could've been the unprofessional appearance that cfh described. Sometimes if you want to hire someone to do something as somewhat of a favor and they don't like you, sometimes they won't bother with you unless the deal is lucrative enough.

Not by what clay said that I quoted. He said "Kevin would have had to cut a rather large check to the ramp company to make it all happen, and he never did that." He didn't say the manufacturer balked at doing business with him. That's pretty damning imo. A critical part was never secured but he was posting about how hard assembly was. Every new detail exposes this for what it was, a house of cards.

#10765 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

The lawyer had to be paid and apparently he was paid in some assets (due to lack of money) from Kevin. The story goes that the assets then were bought by an unknown third-party to cash out the lawyer. So some parts to predator are available. Not enough to make a game, not even close. But My intention is to try and gather as much of the parts as possible and then attempt to make a predator.

So you are saying the lawyer has been paid with some of the money Kevin took from us (via selling stuff to the unknown middle man)?

To put this in perspective, in Louisiana if you get mugged for $5,000 and sue the guy who mugged you, and the guy pays his lawyer with the $5,000 he took from you and the lawyer knows that, then the lawyer has some legal concerns. I'm not sure if the laws are the same in the state in question...but based on what Clay is saying we should find out...because if you know all these details so well then the lawyer knows them also one would think.

-12
#10766 4 years ago

Spooky pinball made the playfields and plastics. He was paid in full. Back alley creations made some of the playfield parts. They were paid in full. I don't think you can make these jumps in logic about stolen goods.

Many invested in a company a.k.a. Kevin. Kevin probably didn't do a lot of things right or even semi right. It may have been noticed that kevin was flighty. Kevins company basically fell apart for a variety of reasons which we've talked about endlessly. Have you ever bought a stock and then the company goes belly up and you lose your investment? That's kind of the way to look at it here. The fact that they were not willing to bring any criminal charges against Kevin is kind of an indication that prosecutors didn't think what he did was criminal. I'm not saying what happened was right. But this kind of stuff happens all the time with companies of all different types.

People make an investment and sometimes they win and sometimes they loose. Believe me I know it sucks there's been plenty of things I've invested in and have lost my butt on. I can tell you all kinds of stories on stuff I've done where it just didn't work out. And a lot of times the guy that was selling the product to me was lying through his teeth. You have to look at the guy, sum up the product, and see if everything adds up.

Just a short story... I was working a guitar show for friend of mine and a guy walked in and distract me while he and his buddy tried to steel some of my friends guitars. I was responsible for those guitars! And how did I get distracted? He was selling me an alleged 1958 Gibson ES 335. It turns out the guitar was a complete fraud but I ended up buying it from them. I ended up holding the bag on that one, I lost thousands of dollars. Was it my fault? To a large extent yes because I believe what the guy was saying. I got played for a sucker, I had to take the heat on that one. Did the cops do anything? No. You can't prosecute somebody for being naive. The best I could do was sue him in civil court. But it just wasn't worth it. I took my lumps.

16
#10767 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Spooky pinball made the playfields and plastics. He was paid in full. Back alley creations made some of the playfield parts. They were paid in full. I don't think you can make these jumps in logic about stolen goods.

There are different rules for lawyers than venders.

Quoted from cfh:

Many invested in a company a.k.a. Kevin. K

We did what? That's crap clay. We paid for an item. We didn't invest in a business.

10
#10768 4 years ago

But Kevin wasn't just "naive" was he? He was a liar. He lied and lied and lied. All the way through. You are being way too kind to him. Playing it off like he was just a bit naive. He knew full well he did not have the license to make those games. Yet he still took people's money. He even told stories about how difficult it was to get certain things approved by the license holder. This was all pure fiction. Nothing but outright lies. This is not the same as a legit business going bust and people losing their money. This was dodgy as hell from the very start.

13
#10769 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Have you ever bought a stock and then the company goes belly up and you lose your

LOL. Umm, No. A better analogy: "Have you ever bought a stock and find out they falsified earnings to get you to buy stock and then the company goes belly up and you lose your investment."

That's what Kevin did. He lied to get you to invest, i.e. Send money.

#10771 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Spooky pinball made the playfields and plastics. He was paid in full. Back alley creations made some of the playfield parts. They were paid in full. I don't think you can make these jumps in logic about stolen goods.

Paid in full for 10 games, and don't forget about the cabinets and fancy CNC machine for someone that colluded the "we have the license" story...

#10772 4 years ago

Clay, this is clearly deceptive practice on Kevin's part. If you think this is a investment, then you must have also invested with Jpop.

17
#10773 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Spooky pinball made the playfields and plastics. He was paid in full. Back alley creations made some of the playfield parts. They were paid in full. I don't think you can make these jumps in logic about stolen goods.
Many invested in a company a.k.a. Kevin. Kevin probably didn't do a lot of things right or even semi right. It may have been noticed that kevin was flighty. Kevins company basically fell apart for a variety of reasons which we've talked about endlessly. Have you ever bought a stock and then the company goes belly up and you lose your investment? That's kind of the way to look at it here. The fact that they were not willing to bring any criminal charges against Kevin is kind of an indication that prosecutors didn't think what he did was criminal. I'm not saying what happened was right. But this kind of stuff happens all the time with companies of all different types.
People make an investment and sometimes they win and sometimes they loose. Believe me I know it sucks there's been plenty of things I've invested in and have lost my butt on. I can tell you all kinds of stories on stuff I've done where it just didn't work out. And a lot of times the guy that was selling the product to me was lying through his teeth. You have to look at the guy, sum up the product, and see if everything adds up.
Just a short story... I was working a guitar show for friend of mine and a guy walked in and distract me while he and his buddy tried to steel some of my friends guitars. I was responsible for those guitars! And how did I get distracted? He was selling me an alleged 1958 Gibson ES 335. It turns out the guitar was a complete fraud but I ended up buying it from them. I ended up holding the bag on that one, I lost thousands of dollars. Was it my fault? To a large extent yes because I believe what the guy was saying. I got played for a sucker, I had to take the heat on that one. Did the cops do anything? No. You can't prosecute somebody for being naive. The best I could do was sue him in civil court. But it just wasn't worth it. I took my lumps.

I did not invest in anything. I paid for goods and so did 250 other people.

17
#10774 4 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Building even just one custom game from scratch is an accomplishment in and of itself. Between that and the assurances that licensing was above-board, there was a level of comfort that the games would be produced, like Tiger said.
Poor decision making, poor money management, and all the lies were some of the things that made this whole thing collapse like a house of cards.

Despite his assurances, there were all kinds of red flags being raised long before it was confirmed he didn't have the license.

Of course many of us who dared to raise these issues in Predator threads were constantly labeled as trolls, haters or troublemakers and were even banned from threads. Hell, even today you have someone posting it was partly the fault of people who brought the truth to light for bringing the project down.

The "level of comfort" for this pin ever being made, considering the objective facts at the time, never should have been very high....for a magnitude of reasons, all previously discussed in predator threads.

I almost hate to even bring this up for fear of some feeling like it's pouring salt in the wound, but I think the inference that there was almost no reason to be skeptical of this project from the start is incorrect. IMO.

11
#10775 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I paid for goods and so did 250 other people.

Sounds more like you paid for bads.

#10776 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Sounds more like you paid for bads

that's not funny, but it is.. and fitting

#10777 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I think the inference that there was almost no reason to be skeptical of this project from the start is incorrect. IMO.

I think there are reasons to be skeptical of all the start-ups until they can prove they're able to produce games. Some more than others.

Predator

Plus - they had a working prototype.
Minus - some kids in a basement manufacturing it.

#10778 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I did not invest in anything. I paid for goods and so did 250 other people.

I felt like I was investing in the company in a Kickstarter sort of way. The return on my investment was going to be a pinball machine.

I knew there were going to be hurdles they would have to work through to get the game made. I knew that at least some of my money would be used in the development of the game and there was a risk they would fail and the money would be spent.

I had far different expectations than had I ordered "goods" on Amazon.

If it was all a big con then string'em up, they're crooks and my stupidity for falling for it.

If they failed because they were naive and inexperienced, then my bad because I knew that but hoped they could still succeed.

We won't know until the truth is finally revealed but my guess is it's somewhere in the middle. The middle-truth as it were.

#10779 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

We won't know until the truth is finally revealed but my guess is it's somewhere in the middle. The middle-truth as it were.

There is absolutely no middle-truth, it was a con from the onset, and it will be shown. I just want to make sure I get the front door when his "wife's house" is taken.

#10780 4 years ago

Quoted from cfh:
There are two predators in existence. The one that Kevin was hauling to the show. And the other one Tim has. There are no other complete games or even close to complete games. There are some parts out there but that's about it. There is a chance that up to five predators could be made. But there are more major assemblies that are not available. The biggest block on the whole thing is the ramps. There was only two sets ever made and one is in Tim's game and the other one is in the original black predator. There's no others. So at this point in time there are no predators that can even exist, because there simply aren't enough parts to make one.
You also need software too. It's not like that's readily available either. And Milton stop lying about stuff. You don't know anything.

Would you be willing to sign an affidavit to this?
Or is it just more bs?

15
#10781 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I think there are reasons to be skeptical of all the start-ups until they can prove they're able to produce games. Some more than others.
Predator
Plus - they had a working prototype.
Minus - some kids in a basement manufacturing it.

all comes down to. Don't preorder shit.

#10782 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

Quoted from cfh:
There are two predators in existence. The one that Kevin was hauling to the show. And the other one Tim has. There are no other complete games or even close to complete games. There are some parts out there but that's about it. There is a chance that up to five predators could be made. But there are more major assemblies that are not available. The biggest block on the whole thing is the ramps. There was only two sets ever made and one is in Tim's game and the other one is in the original black predator. There's no others. So at this point in time there are no predators that can even exist, because there simply aren't enough parts to make one.
You also need software too. It's not like that's readily available either. And Milton stop lying about stuff. You don't know anything.
Would you be willing to sign an affidavit to this?
Or is it just more bs?

I'll sign one. What's in it for me? Or, what would be in it for cfh?

#10783 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

What's in it for me? Or, what would be in it for cfh?

If you're wrong, you gotta an hero like Kevin.

#10784 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

If you're wrong, you gotta an hero like Kevin.

Don't know what that means, but if I'm correct, what is my compensation?

#10785 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Don't know what that means, but if I'm correct, what is my compensation?

image_(resized).jpeg

#10786 4 years ago

Is this Tim Fife guy the same jackwagon that posts on Spooky's FB all the time?

#10787 4 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Is this Tim Fife guy the same jackwagon that posts on Spooky's FB all the time?

The larger question is why does he posses property that isn't his?

#10788 4 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

The larger question is why does he posses property that isn't his?

If Tim bought it from Kevin, then it's his property.

The issue was that Kevin was not authorized to use the Predator IP.

#10789 4 years ago

This thread has suddenly became far more interesting.

#10791 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

Kevin appears in torn pants, dirty T-shirt, and that goofy hat he likes to wear. Terry and Paul are like, "dude you have to dress up for this you can't look like that." Kevin says, "I have to be me and this is me."

This sort of sums it up. Sorry to everyone that got burned by this guy.

#10792 4 years ago

The only thing missing from this meal is the toast

toast_(resized).jpg

#10793 4 years ago

For those who received an email from Keith very recently, can you PM me what you think of it?
(sorry for being cryptic - legal matter ongoing)

I am not giving up - bankruptcy or not (just received my Chapter 7 notification by regular mail today. A little bit late to the party, but I am far away. He really thinks he can escape that easily?)

#10794 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I am not giving up

No quitting here!

th_(resized).jpg

#10795 4 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

The best story to me about the predator was again the ramps. Paul, the cabinet guy, and Kevin went to to see Terry in Chicago. They stayed overnight at Terry's house and we're scheduled for an 8 AM meeting with the ramp manufacturer. This is the same company that makes ramps for Stern.
8 AM rolls around and Terry and Paul are dressed to the nines with nice shoes and button down shirts and nice pants. Kevin appears in torn pants, dirty T-shirt, and that goofy hat he likes to wear. Terry and Paul are like, "dude you have to dress up for this you can't look like that." Kevin says, "I have to be me and this is me."

It sounds like "Paul" had a bigger role in Skit Pinball than just the the cabinet guy. Partner?

#10796 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

It sounds like "Paul" had a bigger role in Skit Pinball than just the the cabinet guy. Partner?

If someone said "No", would you accept that as an answer?

#10797 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

For those who received an email from Keith very recently, can you PM me what you think of it?
(sorry for being cryptic - legal matter ongoing)
I am not giving up - bankruptcy or not (just received my Chapter 7 notification by regular mail today. A little bit late to the party, but I am far away. He really thinks he can escape that easily?)

I said it before, but i am potted in. For those with already ongoing legal action, this is merely a minor amount compared to how much you paid for your machine originally. Well worth the ongoing fight to not let anyone off the hook. Don't forget there is only 1 person w chapter 7 filings thus far, so plenty of funto be had on multiple fronts.

#10798 4 years ago

Depends on who the someone is.

#10799 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

Depends on who the someone is.

How about myself?

How about cfh?

#10800 4 years ago

Also just got the bankruptcy notice through the regular post. Still going to continue. Now and until the end of time if need be.

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