(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

4 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#311 4 years ago

I think there is a possibility for the "self fulfilling prophecy" in this situation. People start fearing that the game will not be made, so they demand a refund. Enough people do this and the company folds.

Also, all the bad press keeps people on the sidelines instead of in line.

Doubt communication would make much of a difference at this point. "Words are Wind" as they say on the Game of Thrones. The best way to allay fears is to get some games out.

If the game is decent, I expect people will be lining up again.

#313 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

How can they hide from refund requests? That's just bad business.

I don't know if it's hiding as much as their standard operating procedures. It's been this way for as long as I've been following the project. A while back I sent a request asking if the incentives were still available if I paid in full. It took months and repeated requests before I got a response.

Still, it's hard to believe they have enough resources to take care of everyone if enough people made a run on the bank.

#315 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Have to disagree with you there. Writing a quick post takes a few seconds out of the day and would go VERY FAR. You can't just take tons of money from people and vanish without expecting repercussions.

Kevin has made the brief appearance to let us know the games are being built and everything is okay with the license. Either you believe him or you don't. It's easy to get sucked into Pinside. I'd rather he spend his time and energy getting the games built.

It might be easy for some people to just pop-in, say a few words and then leave. It wouldn't be for me, it's just too distracting. Speaking of which.....must....leave...Pinside....and get some real work done.

#316 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

I would guess most of their money is tied up and they have to hustle from someone on the waitlist to pay the people that want refunds. That is probably why it takes so long. Of course they tried to sell this as some sort of proprietary refund process lol :

This seems likely. And, how much time and energy does that take? How about dealing with Paypal?

#317 4 years ago

I think in the spirit of full disclosure (or should I say "reality"), any boutique manufacturer asking for pre-orders should state up front that the game will be finished when it's finished, refunds will be given if there is someone else to take your spot and you risk losing all your money.

#319 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

Sure, but that's the BS they signed up for when they started a business and took people's money. It is their responsibility to have plans in place to insulate the customer from this. It should be refunds first, hustle from the waitlist 2nd.

There are plenty of ventures people invest in that go nowhere. Money is gone. You can sue but good luck collecting.

In my opinion, the best hope for SkitB is that they get some games built and that the games are well received. The rest will take care of itself.

#325 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Why so much doom and gloom from so many?
Seems like lots of people getting caught up in pinside and letting themselves get riled up by a handful of naysayers with no skin in the game.

I hope my posts don't come across as doom and gloom. I'm optimistic about SkitB getting Predator out and that it will be worth the cost and wait.

It does seem that others are getting more antsy though. I hope SkitB can take care of them and still get the job done.

Those who take the risk get the reward!

#326 4 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

the peoples waiting for this game, i don't know how you do it.
4k + , no communication.
not much done (cabs, that's all).
no website.
no pics (forget the cabs)
i was going to jump in early, waited a bit, glad i did.
sorry but not gonna jump on the next game, if there is any,
if that's the way they treat their customers.

Not entirely true. We've seen a complete game with polished code and sound. That's more than can be said for all of the other boutique manufacturers except AMH.

We've also seen Kevin working with Pinball Refinery to add an enhanced lighting option to the game. If they are looking into these smaller details, it suggests any major issues have been taken care of.

#525 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Like a "parent" walked into the room, gotta be kidding me. Like a kid walked in that has no business managing a million dollars of other people's money. It's a good thing that he DOESN'T post based on those responses, he's right, stick to making the pins and ignore everything else, he's not helping his cause blaming Pinside and everybody else for "pinball making being hard", which he seems to have just figured out, after 3 yrs and deposits collected, because the TIMELINE certainly changed several times this year.
That's why I said you need to help him Hilton, beyond the keyboard pounding rhetoric. Form a owners group to help manage him.
No one wants any game to fail, so you better jump in there and actually do something constructive.
Ps. Nobody should take themselves so seriously

He may or may not have any business managing other peoples money, time will tell. But, we encouraged him to take our money because we wanted a Predator machine and liked what we saw. We willingly invested in his vision even though he was just "Some Kid In The Basement".

I think those who hold Kevin to the fire for being way off on his timelines might as well hold themselves to the fire for expecting him to meet them. Both his timelines and their expectations come from a lack of experience.

I've mostly been impressed with Kevin's responses over the years and believe he is sincerely doing his best. He needs our encouragement, support and patience, not our doubt, insinuation and negative speculation.

I suspect it's very demoralizing to have people suggesting you're a con man and a liar if you are just working hard and honestly doing your best to overcome obstacles.

#527 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

this would be great entertainment to set up a bunch of chairs (at like the Tex Pin Fest) in one of the halls, and put like 8-10 people up there, a moderator/facilitator to ask provocative questions about Predator and let the show begin. ...and of course, tell the people up there to be extreme, controversial, paranoid, fearful, supportive, argumentative, passionate, etc...
i'd pay to watch that show

No need, watch it here 24/7.

#534 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Look, the facts are, in his own words, that it was "mission accomplished" and he was ready to start pumping out pins this past April at the rate of 40 per month. This was 9 months ago.

Then he realized he needed to raise the money and made people pony up by July 28th and said he would get pins out to people "in a few short months".

All true and didn't he also estimate that games would take about 6 months to be ready for production when he first announced the games would be sold? How long ago was that, 3 years? So why expect the latest timelines to be accurate when there are bound to be unforeseen hurdles in production?

Problem with a timeline is that you can't factor in the correct time allotment for the things you don't know. There is also a tendency for optimists to grossly underestimate the time required for the things they do know.

I expect missed timelines to be par for the course when producing something as complex as a pinball machine for the first time.

I'm satisfied if Kevin is working hard to produce a quality game that meets his vision, even if every timeline continues to be missed.

#535 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Getting to the bottom of the issues, like with Jpop, can help provide solutions to what is going on. In his case, management/financial help. He took the criticism and is getting some help. Mind you, after 3 years of kissing ass and cheerleading!

I guess we all play our parts.

The cheerleaders keep SkitB's spirits up with encouragement and support and are most likely the reason they decided to manufacture the game.

Others kick them in the rear and hold them accountable. Edit: This motivates some people but it may demotivate instead.

2 months later
#795 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

The ONLY thing, and I mean ONLY thing that will give #2 even a remote shot of not experiencing a huge backlash is to not talk about it and Deliver quality on #1.

I, on the other hand, find it comforting to know they are making good progress on #2 and appreciate Aaron's post.

My biggest concerns for these boutique pre-orders is not when they will get done but if they will get done and if they will be supported in the future.

The fact that SkitB is still pursuing game #2 tells me they are not planning to be a one (or none) and done company. The couple of photos of EOD shared also tells me they have support from others in the industry who are actively working to make them be successful.

All this bodes very well for getting a finished Predator with good quality and support.

1 week later
#997 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Actually to be fair, we have no confirmation pre-ordering is yet dead... we just have a lot of people claiming they won't do it anymore... but there are still companies surviving on pre-orders right this moment. After (if) they deliver, who knows who will bite the hook again.
Just like buying unfinished code machines... no one does that anymore right?


I will happily pre-order a machine if they make it worth my while in perks (discounted price, LE, extras, etc..), it's a theme I like, made by a company I believe will get the job done and refunds are given if I don't like the way the machine is turning out. Also, I like getting a price locked in early.

Worked out great for WOZ at $6500. I expect going in that it will take much longer than the manufacturer anticipates, especially if it's their first machine. How long it takes doesn't matter too much to me other than the longer it takes, the more resources are used up, increasing the risk that there aren't enough left to get the machines finished.

I also know going in that I might lose any money deposited entirely if the company folds.

1 week later
#1437 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Absolutely possible. The whole thing could be bullshit....
However, MUCH more telling to ME is not the rumors, but how SkitB has reacted. Innocent people dont stop talking when they are falsely accused. They generally make bold statements with righteous indignation (see Jacks comments after his lawsuit story broke).
SkitB knows EXACTLY what the issues people are having are. Here's the simple message they would have sent (if they could):
"Folks, lots of rumors floating around the internet- no surprises there! We are behind schedule, but we are busting our butts to make this game. While I cant promise a delivery date, here's what I CAN promise:
1. We are making a Predator pinball machine
2. We have a license to do it."
Bam, end of story.

He has said this repeatedly, people choose not to believe him. Which is their prerogative.

At this point, it's going to take finished games to convince the doubters.

#1452 4 years ago

Here are direct quotes from Kevin that are in the Predator Updates thread from a couple of months ago.

Regarding Licensing:

“Licensing is obviously a big deal, and while these types of things have simply been accepted in the past, indie pinball (yes, I'm going to keep calling it that) is potentially a completely different beast altogether. Gathering copyright and likeness permissions is a huge, daunting process, but is very rewarding in the end. That being said, this is something you need to have reasonably taken care of before making any major announcements or commitments, and we've done a lot of work and spent countless hours making sure everyone involved is happy with how things turned out. I have many stories I could tell here, but I think I will wait until a time when there's a little less actual news to catch up on At any rate, I can see how one might wonder if a small indie startup would be able to handle this sort of task, but it is certainly not an issue over here. Don't expect any wild omissions or absences when you open up your first Skit-B new-in-box!

Regarding deposits:

“We have been working very closely with PayPal for a long time to make sure that every penny that goes through us is well-protected and secure. They have been extremely helpful and have developed a strong personal rapport with us that affords us the luxury of open and direct communication in any and all situations. With the security of all funds being absolutely paramount in ANY foreseeable case, there are processes that must be followed and while they can take a bit of time to work with, the end result is that even if we were to literally die or encounter a license issue or disappear to Venezuela or whatever other rumors there may be, we do so without risking a cent of your money.”

#1490 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If the license is fine there is zero reason for that last sentence.

Quoted from ChadNC:

The only reason it could take 3 months is either they don't have the money or don't want to give you the money. Or lie and say they haven't seen your correspondence..... Bud I'm sorry for yall.

How often do we hear "there is zero reason for x" or the "only possible reason(s) for x is y(w,z, etc)", stated as if they are all knowing. For some reason these statements almost always point to something dire.

Is such hyperbole helpful or does it merely serve to fan the flames?

#1492 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Ted, good summary. Sounds like you have covered many bases and confirmed the license hasn't expired (which was going to piss me off if true). One major item not reported on is the status of refunds. Was there any mention or discussion of when people could expect to see a refund if requested?

I suspect this will be like TBL for some. If they can get the refund, it proves SkitB is solvent and they won't want it.

#1520 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

I know everyone's going crazy and I understand. But, hopefully in a couple weeks, we should know everything. Kevin sounded sincere when we spoke, so let's give him the time he needs and see what happens.

Wait Ted, for a more accurate estimate we must first put the stated wait time through the New Pinball Manufacturer Time Estimate Conversion Formula.

Realistic Estimate = Stated Time x 2 then Change the Units


(2 weeks)x2 = 4 weeks, then change the units = 4 months

#1591 4 years ago

I decided to support Skit B because of the Predator prototype, my own optimism and because of Kevin's apparent sincerity and love of pinball. The sound, artwork and Kevin's description of what kinds of rules and shots make a "great" game leads me to think it will be a game I like, even though the playfield layout is simple (similar to T2).

Making a one-off and making 250 machines are two very different things. I fully expected he would have tons to learn and that there was no way he would be anywhere close to his original time estimates.

It is still my belief that Kevin is honestly doing his best to complete this project. I also figure that he is making very little if anything for all of his time and effort. I suspect that keeping his integrity and making a bunch of pinheads happy is what's driving him to complete the project.

If that is the case, can you imagine what it must be like to read Pinside and see all the things people are accusing you of?

He stated in one of his updates that for the sake of his own mental health he no longer reads Pinside. I kind of hope he doesn't because if I were in his shoes, it would be difficult to not let it affect me or get caught up in all the drama.

People say it only takes a few minutes to post a response but how long does it take to follow all of the posts? Seems like some people are monitoring pinside 12+ hours a day. For certain personality types (myself included) it can be very hard to disengage once you get involved.

There just isn't enough time for that when there are machines to get out!

#1597 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

He chose to start a business and build pinball machines. This is his responsibility whether he likes it or not.

There are plenty of businesses that get started and go bankrupt too. People respond to things in different ways.

1)One person might look at all the criticism and say, "I'll get this done and prove all the critics wrong".

2)Another person might look at all the criticism and say, "Screw it, what am I doing this for when it looks like I'm not going to make anything and all I get is grief for all the hard work I'm doing."

I hope Kevin is more like the first example.

#1600 4 years ago
Quoted from BigPhil:

I'm not going through 10 pages of this. I want my Predator pinball and that's that. I'll listen to Kevin and I trust in Kevin. I know I'll get it.
Seriously, for everyone concerned, there must be someone who lives nearby who can pop in and see things for themselves.
Do I really have to buy a ticket and fly over from the UK myself and do the job for you?

I hope Kevin sees that by far the majority of people beating the drums and making accusations have no money invested. They aren't the ones he needs to satisfy.

In my opinion the best thing to do is just let that stuff roll off his back and get on with the build (even though the drama on Pinside may cause a few actual buyers to ask for refunds).

#1605 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

They do need to satisfy the non-buyers. Reputation is key, and if they want to sell any other pins, the people he 'doesn't need to satisfy' certainly won't be new buyers, nor will the previous people who were in on Predator want to buy anything else.

I disagree. Put out a great game and people will be lining up for the next one if it's a title they want at a good price.

Sure, there will be some who won't bite because of how long Predator has taken or the lack of communication, but I think there will be far more ready to sign up once they see that the company can put out a great game.

For all the complaining and negative speculation on here, nobody has actually lost anything yet. Put out a Predator pinball machine like the prototype and all that stuff was just wasted keystrokes.

#1619 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

I think that's where the big debate is. People see it as the rest of 'us' being negative and unsupportive. From our perspective, we don't want to see anyone lose their ass on this deal. I certainly don't want anyone to be hung out to dry. Time will tell.

If you truly "don't want to see anyone lose their ass on this deal" then why contribute in ways that could make things worse?

My expectation is that if SkitB goes under, my money will be gone. I took that risk into consideration each time I sent in a deposit.

It's annoying to see people who have nothing invested fanning the flames (regardless of where they want to assign blame) and say they're doing it to protect me. How does that protect me?

If the worst of what people are speculating is true, my money is as good as gone. It's too late to help me now.

But if it's not true, then consider the following:

If the things you say contribute to damaging the moral of the people at SkitB, how does that protect me?

If the things you say contribute to a run on the bank that leads to SkitB going under, how does that protect me?

In reality, I don't think the things people say here can cause the demise of SkitB, but I just don't understand the rational.

#1623 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Couldn't disagree more....
There might be 10 people with enough "WTF-Cash" to bet on Kevin again, but i cant imagine enough to make a full project work.....at least not pre-order.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Many of the pinball enthusiasts I know do not follow pinside regularly and some not at all. Imagine that!

If Predator turns out to be good and SkitB shows up to the shows with a pretty complete prototype of a title that people want (unfortunately, EOD does not immediately grab attention), I think they would get preorders to build the game, if the game is either limited to 250 machines like Predator, or they give enough pre-order perks to make it worth it.

A lot of "ifs", but my point is that I don't think the way Predator has been handled will matter enough to make much of a difference. Say maybe 10% out of a 250 machine limited edition run would be 25 people who wouldn't sign up for the next hot title solely because of the what they experienced or read about Predator on Pinside.

I think those 25 spots would be easily filled by people who were either sitting on the sidelines to see if Predator turned out to be a good solid title or never even heard about Predator until after it came out.

#1632 4 years ago
Quoted from hassellcastle:

Can we change the name of this thread to:
"The blind faith Predator Pinball support group"

I like,

Predator - In It Till the End: Hero or Zero!


#1896 4 years ago

Just thinking it would be a little funny if Kevin were nose to the grindstone building machines while blissfully ignorant of all the rampant speculation, wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth whirling all around him in cyberspace.

It would only take staying off the computer.

If he could just find a way to harness the thousands of man hours people are spending on Pinside trying to figure out what's up with SkitB.

#1900 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

I told him about it.....sorry...

Sure, but hearing about it and reading the blow by blow are two very different things.

1 week later
#2385 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It really is sad that there is such a misconception about photoshop.
Many people think that if you put an image through photoshop, you have <gasp> manipulated the image! Of course the irony is that the "original image" has already been altered from reality when the digital sensor captured the image, and different sensors will interpret the image differently.
Every single photograph I take goes through photoshop before I post it on my Flickr account. So I guess all my photos are technically "photoshopped"!

Image loading is disabled in your settings. un-hideYellowstone3.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Yellowstone3.jpg 576 KB

I think when I and many others use the term "photoshopped", we mean uninspired photo images or montages that look like they've just been cut and pasted onto the game. Like Black Widow in the same pose on the playfield, translite and cabinet on Avengers.

Sure, photoshop is used to do lots of very cool image manipulation. Would like to see more of it if it's done well.

#3359 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

It doesn't cost Kevin anything, only us poor schlubs that bought into this scam. Does anyone really think Kevin would risk a cent of his own money on this train wreck? This isnt a question or attack to you epthegeek, just using your post to quote.
Btw, Kevin I know you're reading this, refund my money!

At the very least, Kevin has lost three years of his life and his reputation in the pinball community if this project fails.

Ask yourself, how many start-up companies actually succeed? Are all companies that fail scams?

I suspect that if he gives everyone refunds that are asking for them it will mark the end of the project (if it isn't already beyond saving).

If that's the case, it's better to call it now and distribute whatever money remains in a fair manner instead of just giving it to the people who make the most noise.

6 months later
#9831 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

To write with a broken pencil is pointless.

"Pointless"...pure comedy silver Jerry! Silver!

8 months later
#10751 3 years ago

With hindsight, I don't think Kevin would have been able to produce 250 machines even if he had the license. At least, not at the $4750/machine price. He would have needed to get more funds from somewhere.

I thought his original estimate for getting games into production (something like 6 months) was so unrealistic it pointed to his inexperience, and I doubted his ability to complete it. However, when he was a year past his initial estimate and the project was still moving forward I took another look.

Based on where the project was at and the sincerity in Kevin's posts, I got on board. Businesses fail all the time for one reason or another, so I knew the money I put in was at risk. The fact they never had the license was a surprise. However, the end result is more disappointing than surprising to me.

I still don't believe Kevin started out with the intention of committing fraud. I think he got in way over his head and handled it poorly. And yes, probably committed fraud along the way in an attempt to hold it all together.

#10777 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I think the inference that there was almost no reason to be skeptical of this project from the start is incorrect. IMO.

I think there are reasons to be skeptical of all the start-ups until they can prove they're able to produce games. Some more than others.


Plus - they had a working prototype.
Minus - some kids in a basement manufacturing it.

#10778 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I did not invest in anything. I paid for goods and so did 250 other people.

I felt like I was investing in the company in a Kickstarter sort of way. The return on my investment was going to be a pinball machine.

I knew there were going to be hurdles they would have to work through to get the game made. I knew that at least some of my money would be used in the development of the game and there was a risk they would fail and the money would be spent.

I had far different expectations than had I ordered "goods" on Amazon.

If it was all a big con then string'em up, they're crooks and my stupidity for falling for it.

If they failed because they were naive and inexperienced, then my bad because I knew that but hoped they could still succeed.

We won't know until the truth is finally revealed but my guess is it's somewhere in the middle. The middle-truth as it were.

4 weeks later
#11418 2 years ago

I think the people who have the existing parts should anticipate that many of the 200+ people who spent $3000 to $5000 each to support a fledgling company in the hopes of getting a Predator pinball machine will be upset if they see the fruits of their money in the hands of people who swooped in at the end.

#11495 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Likely staying silent because the fact they got paid at all would be enough to piss off some of the angrier victims.

Or just maybe, the sharing of company financials on an internet forum (regardless of how they may be received) is something he doesn't believe in.

Hmmm...I think I read that somewhere.

1 month later
#11669 2 years ago

Deadline for objecting to discharge extended to 3/12/2017.

The wheels of justice do indeed move slowly. I guess better moving than stopped.

1 month later
#11822 2 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

So, they're going after Kevin's wife for ~$150,000. Wonder if/where they found the rest of the money to go after...

Actually, looks like he only gave his wife about $43,000. I also wonder where is the rest.

#11825 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Look for big red X and dig down about three feet until you hit a vault. Dig that up and use k4 to blow the doors off. Report back how much you recover.

I'll get Geraldo right on it.

#11829 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

I still say it was pissed away at the Soaring Eagle or Saganing Eagles Nest casinos in the area.

I'm sure Kevin would be more responsible with our money than that.

1 month later
#11907 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

From what I've seen so far, the lawyer representing the buyers has been doing his due diligence and then some.

I'm a bit torn. I agree the lawyer seems to be doing a good job, but as far as I know, he's the only one who's gotten any money. If I understand correctly, his fees for the work he is doing for the bankruptcy trustee will be paid first from Kevin's estate.

From a justice standpoint I guess it's better that someone other than Kevin gets whatever money is there and the lawyer is doing all the work.

#11976 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

I call for a fact-check on your information. I'll bet it's incorrect.

So you're saying some buyers have recovered money from Kevin as a result of the legal proceedings?

If so, I stand corrected and I'm glad to hear it!

#11978 2 years ago
Quoted from maddog14:

My score card says the only people that received money back, so far, at this time, has been from credit card reversals.

That's what I thought as well but it sounds like Keith and the people who agreed with him are better informed.

2 months later
#12558 2 years ago

From what I've read, the buyers Keith is representing appear more interested that Kevin not get away unscathed than they are in getting their money back.

I don't see that happening without the work Keith is doing. I'm glad to see Keith working for the trustee as I think this means his billable hours are first to get paid when money is recovered from Kevin. Seems like this is better incentive to continue pursuing Kevin and to recover as much as possible than the small amount he got up front from the buyers.

Any money recovered from Kevin looks like a win for Keith and a win for those buyers to me.

5 months later
#15926 2 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

e. That should Defendant fail to provide the aforementioned commitment to lend within thirty (30) days (July 9, 2017), or fail to remit the Thirty Thousand ($30,000.00) Dollars to Plaintiff/Trustee, that Plaintiff/Trustee shall have and be entitled to a money judgment against Defendant for Thirty Thousand ($30,000.00) Dollars, and that this Order shall be treated as a money judgment for Thirty Thousand ($30,000.00) Dollars.

Pay the $30,000 or else get a judgment against for $30,000. Where's the incentive to pay up front?

#16116 2 years ago
Quoted from PaulCoff:

Sharpe vs. Kulek.
I'd totally would watch this.
I bet no one could make this happen.

Someone put up a million dollar prize and something tells me it would happen.

#16228 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No mortgage on that house.
What bank would lend you money for a house in a floodplain?

They didn't need a mortgage with Predator funds available for the purchase.

#16373 1 year ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

I remember wondering why they were still going to shows when more than 150 preorders were already paid for. It might've even been above 200. Just start building them and people would buy in. Little did I know there were parties and shit. Living the high life.
Think R&D could never get past 90% and dude realized he spent too much money. Money for the rest of the machines were likely going to come from EoD, although nobody was going to buy that piece of shit. At least not until they proved they could build the first machine.

The machines were pre-ordered but there were varying levels of deposits made. I figured he had to keep going to shows and showing progress to generate hype and get people to send the next level of payments in.

#16468 1 year ago
Quoted from aalucero:

I'm sure that reporter is getting a few emails

She is listed as the producer not the reporter.

#16470 1 year ago
Quoted from lancestorm:

I feel bad for the kids. Lost are toys and clothes and upheaval from their normal home life. But how did the station find out about this is the question I have.

It's a local station. Maybe someone in the Kulek circle knows the reporter.

#16504 1 year ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

What world is Kathy living in? The judge let you have the trailer because it's not worth the time trying to prove who paid the $250 (especially now since it's likely worthless).

My understanding is the judge did not let her have the trailer. He simply removed the default judgement. They still need to plead their case.

1 month later
#17031 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

What is recovered is consumed by the trustee's cost first... at some point this becomes just a grind exercise. Which I wonder if that is part of what is feeding what looks like a lack of pressure from the judge.

The buyers already have nothing to show for their pre-order deposits, so even if the attorney's fees end up consuming everything recovered the buyers are no worse off (other than the ones that hired the attorney).

At least Kevin and the others involved get hassled and end up with less.

#17035 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I get that from OUR POV... but at what point does the Trustee interject and say stop chasing pennies?

Good point.

1 week later
#17125 1 year ago

A question for those in the legal profession.

What happens if the case keeps dragging out and it looks like there isn't nearly enough recoverable money to take care of the legal fees?

#17169 1 year ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Seems weird that with such poor or non existent business practices that this civil type stuff is going on first. I would think it would be the other way around.

Good point. It does seem weird that the judge who was assigned to hear the bankruptcy case would also be assigned to hear the defamation case at the same time.

For the lawyers out there, is this usual?

2 weeks later
#17335 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Based on his own words and those of numerous MI based people that told me and others about it from the start, he does have a predator machine, even if it is a 'Clay built predator' .

It seems Clay is stating what most people who have been following this saga already know. Kevin built two machines. There are enough cabinets, playfields, backglasses, diverters and skull/backbones out there to make eight more machines. Ramps will need to be fabricated. Remaining parts are off the shelf.

If someone has the requisite parts it will be difficult to build a machine but Clay expects they will get built eventually.

Clay may have the parts and may be building a machine but he does not claim that in the posts you referenced.

If so, he is one of eight. What about the other seven?

I think I would rather see the games built than sitting as a few random parts gathering dust.

10 months later
#18041 10 months ago
Quoted from davijc02:

Any money you recover will probably only be a drop in the bucket compared to what you’ll spend fighting this.

What I hear him saying is he doesn't care how much it costs. For the sake of himself and all those Kevin took advantage of, he doesn't want to let Kevin off the hook.

As one who lost money and chose not to throw good money after bad, all I can say is, "Thanks."

#18049 10 months ago
Quoted from davijc02:

It’s for that reason why I question if it’s wise to drain your own account for the hope of seeing a result. In the end I’m no expert on the matter and it isn’t my money.

It would seem the only real winner is the lawyer sending whysnow the bill.

Aren't they always?

I thought about joining the lawsuit but decided to get off the Predator ride instead. Partially due to the belief the likelihood of recovery was minuscule and partially to put it in the past.

Must say though, I do get some satisfaction seeing Kevin dragged into court and driven underground.

#18073 10 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I love how when one tries to educate around here, in a totally neutral, unabusive way, the reward is abusive backlash.

No good deed goes unpunished, I guess.

Let me take a moment to educate.

If you go around correcting other people's mistakes, without being asked, don't expect it to be well received.

Kind of like my post here.

#18076 10 months ago
Quoted from Andy_B:

Are you suggesting a post like "Please correct my mistakes that I know I have made but can't be arsed to correct myself"
Or perhaps a disclaimer at the end of every post "Yes, it is OK to correct my mistakes - please don't wait to be asked"

That would work, or maybe...

"Please correct me whenever I make a mistake because I like having my errors pointed out."

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